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Credit Checks To Be Carried Out On UK Gamblers

Jono777 said:
This has been happening for a while already, I think....

Sure I recall a thread mentioning Unibet using some sort of credit ref agency and then applying deposit limits to players accounts.
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Correct as always Jon.

I think the Daily Mail article is a little misleading as as @Jono777 says, many gaming companies do said checks already, the difference I think is that as part of the new and long awaited white paper, the rumour is that the government are going to make it mandatory for these checks to be done.

It's important to understand that it's not a credit check as such, a better term would be a vulnerability check. The service checks for bankruptcy, CCJ's or other markers of potential harm. All the operator sees, to my knowledge, is a score highlighting the risk associated with a player, nothing else.

I personally don't have an issue with this and think it's a great way for an operator to get an early indication of risk without having to ask the player for intrusive docs. I believe that any checks done are a "soft footprint" and won't have any effect on your credit rating etc.

Mark
 
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satchnz said:
Is this likely to eliminate lower level SOW requests, or am I being naive?
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Not likely, because SOW is an Anti-Money Laundering requirement and is separate from affordability. This will replace or go towards establishing affordability.

I agree that the piece is misleading, much like most things you find in the mainstream media like The Daily Mail. It speaks of the Will Hill fine and someone depositing £70,000 in one day, which I fail to see how a soft credit check would stop. If you can deposit £70K without the use of some form of credit, which we know is banned in UK Gambling, then you are credit-worthy.
 
Yes, I also said on several threads it has already been happening, at first I was like wtf, but since then actually I don’t mind. It’s only a soft check and if it helps a casino to avoid going for a full on SOW check then I’m for it.

It potentially could be a good way to spot someone starting to get into trouble, or if they already are, eg CCJ, bankruptcy etc.

Here you are @Team.Videoslots my credit report, from all three credit agency’s as I’m still battling you with the SOW…. Does that look like someone who can’t afford my level of play?

IMG_6357.webp

IMG_6361.webp

IMG_6359.webp
 
bamberfishcake said:
Not likely, because SOW is an Anti-Money Laundering requirement and is separate from affordability. This will replace or go towards establishing affordability.

I agree that the piece is misleading, much like most things you find in the mainstream media like The Daily Mail. It speaks of the Will Hill fine and someone depositing £70,000 in one day, which I fail to see how a soft credit check would stop. If you can deposit £70K without the use of some form of credit, which we know is banned in UK Gambling, then you are credit-worthy.
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I thought SOW was also to determine whether or not you can afford to play, not just focussed on AML?

Let me rephrase my question - could this potentially reduce the instances of SOW checks for a £50 deposit / £1000 withdrawal scenario? Actually now that I’ve written it out I realise that no number of pre-checks will eliminate this sort of dodgy behaviour.
 
It is probably for a bit of both, but this just highlights even more that a one size fits all approach doesn’t work, there is too many variables to apply set rules and systems to everyone. Realistically each player should be looked at on a case by case basis, but not being compared to the same set of criteria as everyone, or some will be flagged as not suitable when they are and some at risk will fall through and be allowed to deposit large sums.

Casinos would find it very time consuming to vet everyone on a case by case basis though, so I cant see there ever being a bullet proof system really. It’s all a complete f‘king mess.
 
Unibet Mr Green William hill they are doing credit check since year ago, bad credit score they close the account right away, is 100% wrong to give them access to credit score to casinos
nothing will stop problem gamblers if they dont want to stop them self special now when 1000s of illegal casinos get advertise on every forum
 
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satchnz said:
I thought SOW was also to determine whether or not you can afford to play, not just focussed on AML?

Let me rephrase my question - could this potentially reduce the instances of SOW checks for a £50 deposit / £1000 withdrawal scenario? Actually now that I’ve written it out I realise that no number of pre-checks will eliminate this sort of dodgy behaviour.
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I doubt it will reduce SOW checks unless there is a holistic approach to each customer using a centralised system, which may be on the way anyway, or even if use already to a degree.

The clue is kind of in the description; Source of Wealth is to find out where the money came from under AML guidelines and the reason a casino is 'legally' obliged to ask for customer invoices etc.

Due to the nature of money laundering, they are obliged to trace to the original source, so if you are self-employed and your customer pays you 15k, and you gamble 15k, they need to know the legitimacy of those funds to combat laundering.

Affordability is purely about if you can afford to gamble and not really to do with AML. It's about if you can afford to deposit the money that you do. They should take withdrawals into it as well, but they won't, or don't, I don't think.

p.s. Just to add maybe a more direct answer to your question - I don't think so. You shouldn't really get a SOW check on a 50 depo (I don't think so anyway, seems a bit overkill) that leads to a huge withdrawal, but many casinos use the AML requirement to frustrate the customer.
 
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Yeah, as Bambi says a credit report (FWIW) isn't in line with satisfying their AML responsibilities - bit like like saying you can gamble here as we've verified the money comes from a Mexican Cartel.

The only real test of affordability from the casinos' POV is via open banking in conjunction with a Stat Credit Report.
 
bamberfishcake said:
Due to the nature of money laundering, they are obliged to trace to the original source, so if you are self-employed and your customer pays you 15k, and you gamble 15k, they need to know the legitimacy of those funds to combat laundering.
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Yes but this is where the whole thing is crazy, as realistically in the case you’re quoting you would also need to trace where your customer got those funds from and so on, who does that? Not 99% of us lot that I’m certain lol

Ok so I won 200 today at poker, I have no idea where those funds originated from the players involved i expect from legitimate earnings etc but I have no way to trace it either way, I have banked it though as I often do.

Later this week or even tonight if I so feel, I deposit onto a casino they aren’t going to know either so how can they or myself be expected to trace any funds, it’s all just crazy.

A lot of people are still old school and like to deal in cash for a lot of things, I know plenty that still don’t trust banks etc, its not all about tax evasion, before the age of cards people used to manage there money far better that’s for sure, if you didnt have it you didn’t spend it but now people just say ah just put it on plastic.

Out of interest I asked my local casino the other night, if I could have a receipt when I exchanged my chips for cash, they looked at me like I was crackers!

What I did instead was have them put it into my bank instead, and got a receipt that way, but guess what, just asked an online casino and they won’t or can’t accept that as proof of SOF/SOW What a stupid system we are all currently up against.
 
justdoit said:
Unibet Mr Green William hill they are doing credit check since year ago, bad credit score they close the account right away, is 100% wrong to give them access to credit score to casinos
nothing will stop problem gamblers if they dont want to stop them self special now when 1000s of illegal casinos get advertise on every forum
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Yeah not keen on the credit check method.

I had a disagreement with a mobile phone provider a few years back over a final payment when switching provider. Long story short they defaulted me over £50…and I believe mobile phone providers aren’t covered by the same regulator as other credit facilities, so they didn’t even have to send a default notice prior to the default being applied.

On the plus side it eventually hastened my decision to buy my handsets outright and pop in a sim I can use for £10 a month that’s gives me pretty much all the data I need. Much cheaper over the long run, plus with the iPhone I can sell it for a decent price after 2 years and buy the latest one at half price when factoring in what I made back on the old one :)
 
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pinnit2014 said:
The only real test of affordability from the casinos' POV is via open banking in conjunction with a Stat Credit Report.
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Well online for me is coming to and end then as I’m not giving fraudsters an even easier time by linking all my banks together NO chance.

And I would argue that even that don’t prove affordability, if someone has no debts and has 500 in there account does that mean they can afford to deposit and lose 500? If they wanted to?

What if they on a credit meter for gas/electric that’s empty and no food in house, and has no debt and 500 in bank? What about now?

it’s just all subjective.
 
Mr_Slot5 said:
Yeah not keen on the credit check method.

I had a disagreement with a mobile phone provider a few years back over a final payment when switching provider. Long story short they defaulted me over £50…and I believe mobile phone providers aren’t covered by the same regulator as other credit facilities, so they didn’t even have to send a default notice prior to the default being applied.
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Like already been said, it’s already been happening without you knowing possibly, I have had casinos showing up on credit reports for AML from as long as over 18 months ago
 
Reelsoffun said:
Well online for me is coming to and end then as I’m not giving fraudsters an even easier time by linking all my banks together NO chance.

And I would argue that even that don’t prove affordability, if someone has no debts and has 500 in there account does that mean they can afford to deposit and lose 500? If they wanted to?

What if they on a credit meter for gas/electric that’s empty and no food in house, and has no debt and 500 in bank? What about now?

it’s just all subjective.
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Yeah, i wouldn't willy nilly go Open Banking. They could just 'take your word' you earn 40k, i guess, a year...

Scoring has improved over the years - previously you could have 999/1000 but be up to your eyes in debt, min payment all the way, but now it is a bit realistic.

Someone on 90k could have less disposable income than 50k etc. All depends on circumstances.

And dis. income is what it's all about to casinos.

My issues is that casino's can't even give me the 10FS they promised in a promo so how can i expect them to be underwriters
 
Reelsoffun said:
Well online for me is coming to and end then as I’m not giving fraudsters an even easier time by linking all my banks together NO chance.

And I would argue that even that don’t prove affordability, if someone has no debts and has 500 in there account does that mean they can afford to deposit and lose 500? If they wanted to?

What if they on a credit meter for gas/electric that’s empty and no food in house, and has no debt and 500 in bank? What about now?

it’s just all subjective.
Click to expand...
At the end of the day the only person playing judge, jury and executioner over someone’s finances should be the individual themselves. Playing at a casino isn’t applying for credit so I do not see why an individual should be privy to the same affordability checks. It’s no one else’s business whether someone spends their last tenner on gambling or not.

The individual should be responsible for their own PERSONAL finances.

Obviously it’s a different story where fraud is suspected or large amounts are being played through in short periods of time.
 
pinnit2014 said:
Well that's the thing, you earn more you take on bigger houses, more exp cars etc. - unfortunately, if the cards come a crashing, no one helps you :p
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I grew up with farming heritage. Very much the ‘if you don’t have the money you don’t have the goods’ mindset.

My grandad died a wealthy man but to look at him you’d have never guessed. Always moaned about the ‘flash’ gits ?
 
Mr_Slot5 said:
I grew up with farming heritage. Very much the ‘if you don’t have the money you don’t have the goods’ mindset.

My grandad died a wealthy man but to look at him you’d have never guessed. Always moaned about the ‘flash’ gits ?
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I get that but at the same time, if that was the case, no one would mortgage and we'd all be paying another persons mortgage via renting for no benefit.

But, yeah, over commitment has been, and still is, an issue via a lot of people (including myself :p)
 
pinnit2014 said:
I get that but at the same time, if that was the case, no one would mortgage and we'd all be paying another persons mortgage via renting for no benefit.

But, yeah, over commitment has been, and still is, an issue via a lot of people (including myself :p)
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Well the housing market is a whole other issue. Grandad retired and bought a property freehold in the mid 90s for 250k. Upon his passing a few years back my nan had the same property valued at £1,000,000. An eye watering % of increase in the market since those mid 90s days.

Either it’s madness or I’m just getting old ?
 
Well, I'll have none of it - no KYC, AML, SOW, Soft Checks, Hard Checks, Open Banking, Limits, Timers, Autospin/Bonus Buy/Audio Bans.. bugger off!

I'll continue to take a chunk of "cash" that I believe I can afford to spend, lump it into my friendly neighbourhood Curacao joint, and be done with it.

And the only questions I'll ever be asked are (1) would you like to play in our slots races, and (2) in which cryptocurrency would you like your 25% monthly cashback / 1% rakeback, or (3) what's your Google authenticator code, so we can process your withdrawal in about 3 seconds flat.
 
Yep, I got a call out of the blue last week. Guy says, just need a quick chat about affordability regarding your account, have you got time.

I replied “no I haven’t, just close the account please”.

This will result in Casinos losing thousands of players some voluntarily, some won’t pass affordability. Either way, as has been mentioned lately, this is the beginning of the end.

Casinos lose more players, counteract by reducing rtp’s (which are already disgusting), even further. Online gambling is just about dead for the UK.
 
Sure is, how things have changed, years ago I was always one to play land based, while all my mates moved to online, cutting down travel time, petrol costs etc but eventually I saw that actually online was better value, lower stakes, better RTP, potentially bigger payouts all in the comfort of your own home, without spending money and time travelling to the casino.

Fast forward some years and the gap has massively closed and it’s starting to become more and more appealing to go back to land based over online, even with the cost of fuel to get there and higher min bets.

My experience lately is blackjack, roulette and poker are ALL easier to win at land based compared to online, make of that what you will, and you can even have winnings put straight into your bank account now, and far less intrusive SOF/SOW checks.
 
Mr_Slot5 said:
Yeah not keen on the credit check method.

I had a disagreement with a mobile phone provider a few years back over a final payment when switching provider. Long story short they defaulted me over £50…and I believe mobile phone providers aren’t covered by the same regulator as other credit facilities, so they didn’t even have to send a default notice prior to the default being applied.

On the plus side it eventually hastened my decision to buy my handsets outright and pop in a sim I can use for £10 a month that’s gives me pretty much all the data I need. Much cheaper over the long run, plus with the iPhone I can sell it for a decent price after 2 years and buy the latest one at half price when factoring in what I made back on the old one :)
Click to expand...
the same thing with virgin net, a credit check is stupid coz we not asking casinos for credit, we spend our money, is like going to a restaurant oh wait you cant be served we need credit check
 
bamberfishcake said:
I doubt it will reduce SOW checks unless there is a holistic approach to each customer using a centralised system, which may be on the way anyway, or even if use already to a degree.

The clue is kind of in the description; Source of Wealth is to find out where the money came from under AML guidelines and the reason a casino is 'legally' obliged to ask for customer invoices etc.

Due to the nature of money laundering, they are obliged to trace to the original source, so if you are self-employed and your customer pays you 15k, and you gamble 15k, they need to know the legitimacy of those funds to combat laundering.

Affordability is purely about if you can afford to gamble and not really to do with AML. It's about if you can afford to deposit the money that you do. They should take withdrawals into it as well, but they won't, or don't, I don't think.

p.s. Just to add maybe a more direct answer to your question - I don't think so. You shouldn't really get a SOW check on a 50 depo (I don't think so anyway, seems a bit overkill) that leads to a huge withdrawal, but many casinos use the AML requirement to frustrate the customer.
Click to expand...
no one uses casinos for money laundering except them self casino owners, as regular customers, we have no chance, we all get checks from our bank, and Casinos have no trained staff to even deal with credit checks, this is how money laundering is down from Central London 10m 50m 100m, not 100quit or 500quit


 
Soft search or not, this would not sit easy with me full stop. If you go for any form of credit, especially something like a mortgage, if there is a whiff of you even spinning 50 pence on a slot, the answer for said credit would be "Computer says no."

The UK is pretty much done as a market for the independents to operate in. Well done UKGC, your over zealous antics in the guise of regulations have killed what is and has been a decent industry for consumers and those B2B's that have a vested interest in it.
 
There is some business-facing information on TransUnion's website about how they assess gambling affordability. They don't just use your personal financial data, they also make assumptions about your disposable income based on your age and postcode. I know from experience that the results can be wildly inaccurate as I have a dormant Betway account that had a £130pm deposit limit applied after one of these searches. TransUnion knows nothing about my income as I receive it through Revolut rather a bank.
 
spurs1882 said:
There is some business-facing information on TransUnion's website about how they assess gambling affordability. They don't just use your personal financial data, they also make assumptions about your disposable income based on your age and postcode. I know from experience that the results can be wildly inaccurate as I have a dormant Betway account that had a £130pm deposit limit applied after one of these searches. TransUnion knows nothing about my income as I receive it through Revolut rather a bank.
Click to expand...
if they check by postcode I should get £100k pm limit lol
 

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