Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[cncas2123]

I agree a severe lockdown in these countries has for now had great effect. But we are simply not set up for that sort of communism, either practically ,morally or logistically. And neither should we ever be. We have gone to war many times for our fundamental freedoms

So lockdowns work....

 

[colinsunderland]

I agree a severe lockdown in these countries has for now had great effect. But we are simply not set up for that sort of communism, either practically ,morally or logistically. And neither should we ever be. We have gone to war many times for our fundamental freedoms

But thats not what you have said previously. You have stated lockdowns increase transmission of the virus. Now you are saying they work? Make your mind up.

Yeah, but they didnt lock down at all. They should be top of that chart, by miles by peoples reasoning here!! Yet not even in the top 20.

Completely different demographic. But you've had this explained to you many many times.

I have answered more of yours tonight than you have mine ever lol

What have you asked that I haven't answered?
Again, why did cases drop mid November, in the middle of a lockdown, when it was freezing?

 

[dealer wins]

So lockdowns work....

Some have, some have been a disaster.

But they will all end up doing more damage and killing more people overall through poverty, job loss, deprivation, mental illnesses, suicides etc

 

[colinsunderland]

Some have, some have been a disaster.

But they will all end up doing more damage and killing more people overall through poverty, job loss, deprivation, mental illnesses, suicides etc

Suicides again, just refresh my memory where you got the 'fact' you posted that they are up 300%?

 

[dealer wins]

Suicides again, just refresh my memory where you got the 'fact' you posted that they are up 300%?

I did genuinely read that somewhere, Im sorry I cant remember.

 

[colinsunderland]

I did genuinely read that somewhere, Im sorry I cant remember.

theres a surprise, maybe if you had answered when I first asked you might have remembered, then I could have pulled it to bits as it's completely wrong. Heres a couple of links

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Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic.

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The Australian Institute for Suicide Research and Prevention observed no apparent increase of suicides during the global pandemic. These findings were published in the journal, Lancet Psychiatry.

 

[mack341]

We will need to look at the mental health figures, presciptions, suicides, detentions over the next 5 years probably and compare it with the 5 years previously.

I would be extremey surprised if lockdown [and also the daily govt/media fear and doom for everyone at home, watching and listening] doesn't have a significant negative impact on the results.

Now we have the vaccines to protect the vulnerable the govt still seem pessimistic and reluctant to mention life returning to normal, what people living now, of an age, have been used to since they were born.

 

[paul7388]

I can see in a way where Dealer is coming from.

Some Countries like New Zealand have no comparison to UK and Europe in anyway. These countries operate in a way where people entering the country etc. are well controlled all the time yet alone in the middle of a pandemic. So much easier for them to totally shut borders and control things.

And in UK he has a point about damage being done. Yes Lockdown could have been a great success in this country as well if it had been done right. But it has been a total farce from beginning. The government has pissed about right from the start. They could have had a proper Lockdown, Made sure noone was coming in or going out of the country. Made sure hardly anyone had to go to work and shut the schools.

But no they have pissed about from the beginning with Lockdowns that are pretty pointless when so many do not need to abide by them.

Took months before they even decided to seperate seats and social distance on Public Transport in Scotland. Never happened till first Lockdown was over. Then after that it took months more to even say you have to wear masks on Public Transport. During Lockdowns Beaches were packed and Protests were allowed.

They even shut pubs indoors and allowed the streets outside to be packed with drinkers worse than they would have been inside.

Yes many are depressed and lost Jobs and everything due to government making total arse of it. Even this Lockdown just now could not be compared to what you would get in a stricter country.

But not just UK that have made a mess of it. USA has. Nearly whole of Europe has struggled to contain the virus.

Cases are going down now. But even then still over 20,000 cases a day in a country that has been in Lockdown for a month. That says it all. We are well by the christmas period. Under a strict Lockdown the figures would be a hell of a lot lower. To still be getting 20,000 plus a day shows that the Lockdown is not strict enough and is not been followed properly.

But it is. Hope it all works out in a few months. But even now i have concerns. The developers, WHO and now the BMA have all aired serious concerns about the 12 week wait for 2nd dose of vaccine. They have all said they think it is a bad idea to wait so long for various reasons.

But our Government is patting themselves on the back about how fast they are getting doses out. When in reality they could be playing with fire. Even today their are concerns over whether enough doses of vaccine will be ready available. Yet alone in 12 weeks when people are due their second dose.

Yeah i think virus is deadly and dangerous. Yes i think a proper Lockdown is great idea. Unfortunately a year since virus was about this country has and is still pissing about.

But hopefully all works out in the end. Only time will tell.

 

[colinsunderland]

We will need to look at the mental health figures, presciptions, suicides, detentions over the next 5 years probably and compare it with the 5 years previously.

I would be extremey surprised if lockdown [and also the daily govt/media fear and doom for everyone at home, watching and listening] doesn't have a significant negative impact on the results.

Now we have the vaccines to protect the vulnerable the govt still seem pessimistic and reluctant to mention life returning to normal, what people living now, of any age, have been used to since they were born.

Theres not much they can really say about things getting back to normal though surely? By asking for a roadmap out, you are asking them to predict the future, which obviously they can't do. They said 3 weeks for the first lockdown, then had to increase it and they were slagged off to hell for not sticking to what they said. They've (finally) learnt their lesson and not giving exact dates, and they are getting slagged off to hell for not telling people when it will end. I think they have made major mistakes but I think not giving a date is the right thing to do.

 

[mack341]

Theres not much they can really say about things getting back to normal though surely? By asking for a roadmap out, you are asking them to predict the future, which obviously they can't do. They said 3 weeks for the first lockdown, then had to increase it and they were slagged off to hell for not sticking to what they said. They've (finally) learnt their lesson and not giving exact dates, and they are getting slagged off to hell for not telling people when it will end. I think they have made major mistakes but I think not giving a date is the right thing to do.

May have been the way I worded that, I certainly wouldn't expect boris to give a date, but he and the govt could be a bit more optimistic so that people know there will be an end and a return to normal [as best as possible] now we have the vaccines.

There are already influential people [devi sridhar for one] talking about zero covid as the target, which strikes me as a policy route involving endless lockdown and restrictions.

 

[colinsunderland]

May have been the way I worded that, I certainly wouldn't expect boris to give a date, but he and the govt could be a bit more optimistic so that people know there will be an end and a return to normal [as best as possible] now we have the vaccines.

There are already influential people [devi sridhar for one] talking about zero covid as the target, which strikes me as a policy route involving endless lockdown and restrictions.

It won't get to zero. But we are getting better at treating it, and that will improve as time goes on. The lockdowns are mainly to stop the spread so hospitals can cope, we've seen they can't when it gets out of hand, but once the vaccinations are given out and the warmer weather comes, then hopefully things will be a bit better. I can't see things back to normal this year, but I think after Easter we might get some normality back

 

[Playford7]

It won't get to zero. But we are getting better at treating it, and that will improve as time goes on. The lockdowns are mainly to stop the spread so hospitals can cope, we've seen they can't when it gets out of hand, but once the vaccinations are given out and the warmer weather comes, then hopefully things will be a bit better. I can't see things back to normal this year, but I think after Easter we might get some normality back

Sadly I can’t see that mate.

the reasons why I’ve no inclination to get into as fed up of arguments, but I’ve had project projections stating many projects won’t even be touched this year.

some due to brexit and red tape @ChopleyIOM will love

but more so due to Covid and its restrictions, see I’m torn....

I was once a massive advocate of ‘this isn’t serious’ ‘save the economy’

but it hit home and folks i know, all in a week so naturally my opinion changed.

I’ve no answers, just my personal experience as always, but personally I can’t see a end to this for a long time unless people of had enough and revolt or it does become 1984....

as said just experience, I’m not wanting some overly large debate on a subject nobody can predict...

But it’s very real, this ain’t no scam, not only do I know and quoted doctors and nurses whom are personal Friends, not only only have I seen close mates and work mates struck down..

but I lost my job and a lot of money and savings due to this, I’ve no horse no longer in any race.

but as for a end and answers... pretty lost

 

[colinsunderland]

Cases are going down now. But even then still over 20,000 cases a day in a country that has been in Lockdown for a month. That says it all. We are well by the christmas period. Under a strict Lockdown the figures would be a hell of a lot lower. To still be getting 20,000 plus a day shows that the Lockdown is not strict enough and is not been followed properly.

And that is the crutch of the matter. It is strict enough. If people were following it, the numbers would be less. Start jailing people for breaches, see how quickly a load of people who can't ONLY drive 15 miles to a park or the beach, suddenly decide , well actually we could go to the park round the corner.

 

[Playford7]

Tonight’s feast, well mild snack before bed..

a four cheese stuffed crust pizza, jacket potato and salad and slaw..

also with 2 chutneys on the side and a hot sauce for dipping...

fine meal, oozing diversity..

 

[dealer wins]

We will need to look at the mental health figures, presciptions, suicides, detentions over the next 5 years probably and compare it with the 5 years previously.

I would be extremey surprised if lockdown [and also the daily govt/media fear and doom for everyone at home, watching and listening] doesn't have a significant negative impact on the results.

Now we have the vaccines to protect the vulnerable the govt still seem pessimistic and reluctant to mention life returning to normal, what people living now, of an age, have been used to since they were born.

In 5 years time, the devastating impact of lockdowns will be all too evident.

It will give me no pleasure to refer back to this thread, and some of the people that cant see the wood for the trees and think that a virus can be controlled or beaten by stopping normal life, our economy and our mental health.

Civilisation is built on economic growth, improvements in the health and wealth of citizens rely on constant economic growth.

What we are doing is basically consigning our future health and wealth down the toilet, and when the shit hits the fan, it will hit hard and and wont be good trust me.

 

[colinsunderland]

In 5 years time, the devastating impact of lockdowns will be all too evident.

It will give me no pleasure to refer back to this thread, and some of the people that cant see the wood for the trees and think that a virus can be controlled or beaten by stopping normal life, our economy and our mental health.

Civilisation is built on economic growth, improvements in the health and wealth of citizens rely on constant economic growth.

What we are doing is basically consigning our future health and wealth down the toilet, and when the shit hits the fan, it will hit hard and and wont be good trust me.

and if half the country is dead, all that will collapse anyway.

 

[shadow123]

Pretty pessimistic about it all and have no idea where its going .Been a year now since first cases,the early death forecast for the UK
was 20,000 , we have had over 5 times that number, like others have said I think we gave it chance to get a foothold by very slow
reactions by the government with very lax border controls, dogged determination to keep schools open, the track and trace fiasco
and poorly enforced lockdowns, all of which should not have happened and were under government control.
The warmer weather seemed to help a lot and I was thinking it would all be under control by xmas,then as it got colder,
new mutations appeared at the worse possible time as the goverment were hell bent on relaxing rules for the holiday
and keeping schools open till the last minute before xmas...what the fuck were they thinking.
Now we are in a semi lockdown again for god knows how long, can see the shit hitting the fan with the second vaccine policy
scientific advise and real life data from Israel is screaming out that a 12 week wait is not right,we will end up with millions
of half protected people which is worse that a smaller number of fully protected ones.

Was hoping like most people that the new year would be a new start and we would be almost back to normal, beginning
to think its going to be like it is now for the rest of my life, 2 or 3 lockdowns a year and new mutations to cope with.

 

[slotplayer]

We will need to look at the mental health figures, presciptions, suicides, detentions over the next 5 years probably and compare it with the 5 years previously.

I would be extremey surprised if lockdown [and also the daily govt/media fear and doom for everyone at home, watching and listening] doesn't have a significant negative impact on the results.

Now we have the vaccines to protect the vulnerable the govt still seem pessimistic and reluctant to mention life returning to normal, what people living now, of an age, have been used to since they were born.

I heard something on news earlier about schools reopening due to suicides. I only caught the last few seconds of it but a quick G search reveals this story.

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[Mr_Slot5]

In 5 years time, the devastating impact of lockdowns will be all too evident.

It will give me no pleasure to refer back to this thread, and some of the people that cant see the wood for the trees and think that a virus can be controlled or beaten by stopping normal life, our economy and our mental health.

Civilisation is built on economic growth, improvements in the health and wealth of citizens rely on constant economic growth.

What we are doing is basically consigning our future health and wealth down the toilet, and when the shit hits the fan, it will hit hard and and wont be good trust me.

I think you are somewhat overstating the economic effects. This isn't a financial downturn which is a result of a loss of consumer confidence, it's imposed restrictions. Ergo, there will be a lot of pent up demand for goods and services once things get back to a semblance of normality.

Those who are of the intelligent persuasion will capitalise on the boom that is coming down the line. For every business that fails, there will be one that starts up.

 

[chuchu59]

We are now facing lockdowns. One district with a population of 10000 was locked down and the people were mass tested producing 13 positive results. Yesterday another even smaller lockdown with only 1 person testing positive.

 

[dealer wins]

and if half the country is dead, all that will collapse anyway.

Another completely nonsensical comment, you think not locking down would kill 33,000,000 UK citizens.

 

[dealer wins]

I think you are somewhat overstating the economic effects. This isn't a financial downturn which is a result of a loss of consumer confidence, it's imposed restrictions. Ergo, there will be a lot of pent up demand for goods and services once things get back to a semblance of normality.

Those who are of the intelligent persuasion will capitalise on the boom that is coming down the line. For every business that fails, there will be one that starts up.

Well we are going to be borrowing £700-£1000 billion over the next 5 years. over £400 billion alone last year. Considering the police cost £13 billion, and NHS £200 billion a year you can see the absolute scale of the upcoming economic hell.

 

[colinsunderland]

Another completely nonsensical comment, you think not locking down would kill 33,000,000 UK citizens.

I don't know, I'm sure you've got some made up figures you can post though.
Still waiting to find out why numbers went down in cold, wet November?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A grim milestone.

And a note about Johnson's insistence that 'we did everything we could'.

 

[colinsunderland]

Lockdown to continue until 8th March. Schools closed until then too.

 

[Borgie]

Lockdown to continue until 8th March. Schools closed until then too.

My daughter is stressed to bits with the home schooling of grandson. He is a v slow learner and he needs a real teacher. So very hard. Lets hope we can crack this soon with vaccines and lockdown.

 

[colinsunderland]

This is the reason why I detest the shite being spread on social media by idiots.



'We'll treat him with vitamin C, Vitamin D and Zinc'
'there’s oxygen outside and COVID was declared as a non-infectious disease on 19 March 2020'

What a fucking arsehole. He isn't even a relative!

 

[dealer wins]

My daughter is stressed to bits with the home schooling of grandson. He is a v slow learner and he needs a real teacher. So very hard. Lets hope we can crack this soon with vaccines and lockdown.

Lockdown will make it worse, and "vaccines" aka experimental medical treatments are like playing russian roulette with your life!

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If we had just followed the WHOs pandemic guidance as Sweden did, we wouldn't be in this monumental mess right now.

 

[vorcirion]

Lockdown will make it worse, and "vaccines" aka experimental medical treatments are like playing russian roulette with your life!

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If we had just followed the WHOs pandemic guidance as Sweden did, we wouldn't be in this monumental mess right now.

If you did social distancing, mask wearing and washing your hands...you wouldn't be in that mess. You should learn from countries that actually did well. Sweden and you have the same numbers about and both of you did really badly.

 

[Borgie]

Lockdown will make it worse, and "vaccines" aka experimental medical treatments are like playing russian roulette with your life!

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If we had just followed the WHOs pandemic guidance as Sweden did, we wouldn't be in this monumental mess right now.

Speechless really. Sweden are not a success story . You have been told over and over even by the swedish people here. It has been explained why with facts Plus sweden is not comparable to Uk. What is wrong with you.

 

[cncas2123]

This is the reason why I detest the shite being spread on social media by idiots.



'We'll treat him with vitamin C, Vitamin D and Zinc'
'there’s oxygen outside and COVID was declared as a non-infectious disease on 19 March 2020'

What a fucking arsehole. He isn't even a relative!

Seriously, people like that should be locked up.

 

[cncas2123]

Lockdown will make it worse, and "vaccines" aka experimental medical treatments are like playing russian roulette with your life!

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If we had just followed the WHOs pandemic guidance as Sweden did, we wouldn't be in this monumental mess right now.

So I am presuming you arent going to take the vaccine if its offered?

 

[colinsunderland]

So I am presuming you arent going to take the vaccine if its offered?

It was probably him in that video I posted.

 

[dealer wins]

So I am presuming you arent going to take the vaccine if its offered?

Not a chance I will have that shyte put in my body. My 85 yr old mother, who was a nurse for 40 years has already refused it, saying no one should take it. I actually wouldnt mind if she had it, as she is not in the best of health and has mild copd, but she is adamant that it is to be avoided at all costs. I love my mum

 

[dealer wins]

Speechless really. Sweden are not a success story . You have been told over and over even by the swedish people here. It has been explained why with facts Plus sweden is not comparable to Uk. What is wrong with you.

They really are a success story, and followed the WHOs pandemic guidelines. Love how the WHO is applauded, yet Sweden who followed their guidelines is criticised, funny that.
No destroyed small business, no mental health crisis, and a death toll less than most similar counties that have entertained self destruction.

There is an agenda going on, and because Sweden didnt follow it, they are fair game. Well good for them, they have won!!!

 

[Slottery]

I don't think anyone disagree that lockdowns don't have manty negative effects to many, almost all who have been under lockdown, it's probably have taken away many things you would do without it.

But another hand, it's one of these few things which do work and if people don't mix at all, it naturally decrease breach of virus (like it reduce amount of car accidents and many other things which not happen if people stay home 24/7). My opinion always been that it's really heavy tool and you should have something else in your toolbox as well, if you need complete lockdown for weeks or months, it's probably sign of some failure but when your situation get too bad, that start to be only one left. Some countries these seem to hit harder and lockdowns are bit on and off but almost nothing in middle which would keep numbers down, not expert of any countries covid strategies but if lockdowns start to happen more than once, latest now would think how could we prevent next one, for sure there are some other things which also can be done to decrease numbers.

I'm happy that so far i haven't have to been in total lockdown where my moving would been limited to certain distances etc... in Malta have to wear mask outside, don't believe it helps a lot but can cope with that, island is just half empy on winters and you can imagine particulary this winter.

Currently in Finland where beer seems to work well and keep infections quite low, here just government have really weird style of communication where only message is that we are very near of total collapse of everything if we don't react now and then speak some nice restrictions which would be good to be in place in case of UK, SA, Bolivia or whatever variant this time increase infections by 1000%. Understand point to react early for issues but that really should be last resort that Emergency Powers Act will be used when we have no war. Personally don't like that all the time message is that we are doing well but alll can get worse (yes, that's true and agree) and we might have to get new restictions (this one i don't, there is no need to scare people but you take them in use in moment they are needed), Emergency Powers Act is not spare pair of socks you have in your bag, just in case if your get wet, you use them if you need but there is no need to keep saying that if you don't behave, we lockdown your county or what ever restrictions is in question that date.

Happy that they haven't gone too much for extreme restrictions, there are at least some party in government who thinks that these all tools are there to be used in case of emergency, break the glass.

 

[Slottery]

They really are a success story, and followed the WHOs pandemic guidelines. Love how the WHO is applauded, yet Sweden who followed their guidelines is criticised, funny that.
No destroyed small business, no mental health crisis, and a death toll less than most similar counties that have entertained self destruction.

There is an agenda going on, and because Sweden didnt follow it, they are fair game. Well good for them, they have won!!!

Not gonna go deep in this for now this late but if somebody wish, can continue tomorrow Sweden was actually only country who followed WHO planning in pandemic which been developed based on previous experiences, Sars, BSE and whatever. There were some quite even heated communications between Sweden and other countries who decided to make it political game with some really weird restrictions which were not at all based on information and planning lead by WHO and all countries took part. They were bit wondered that wtf, we've been planning something for years and now when it happen, you all shite to your pants and trying to keep your voters instead of being pragmatic and trying to find best way through pandemic from medical point of view, so that left them quite alone in that.

Also if you now look these numbers when we reach one year of this, i can't really (maybe just my blindness) see that huge differences in overall damages per countries even almost all had different actions at different times so not that huge differenes to show that which week should have been done and what. Making this politic issue is in my guess not best way to lead the country through a pandemic, you shouldn't think your voters but country and world in total. People start to get really emotional when some of their close ones pass away, which is of course always a personal tragedy but any individual case don't make a pandemic any worse or better, my aunt was counted of one covid deaths, no idea how she was and what shea actually died, but it wouldn't make much sense if from now on even nothing have changed i would think this is much worse, these numbers and information been there available all the time to follow if want and all countries for sure have in their news papers some interviews from people who suffered really bad covid so fact that my aunt passed away is really irrelevant how dangerous whole virus itself is.

One thing probably all can somehow agree here, let's hope it's somehow gone sooner or later, if it's not, then it just keep living here and we have another nice seasonal guest for winter time but would assume that during this year there must be some decision made that can we get totally rid of is or do we have to accept that it remains with us on planet like many other viruses and hopefully mutating milder, at least there is no science based facts that any new variants would be much more dangerous than previous ones.

 

[colinsunderland]

They really are a success story, and followed the WHOs pandemic guidelines. Love how the WHO is applauded, yet Sweden who followed their guidelines is criticised, funny that.
No destroyed small business, no mental health crisis, and a death toll less than most similar counties that have entertained self destruction.

There is an agenda going on, and because Sweden didnt follow it, they are fair game. Well good for them, they have won!!!

You're an idiot. Sweden's figures, as have been pointed out to you by many people, on numerous occasions, are terrible.
By your reasoning lockdowns should have been much stricter as China have MUCH better figures than Sweden do, and they had a mega strict lockdown. How come they don't have millions of cases considering you state lockdowns increase transmission?
How come our cases fell in November when it was cold and wet during the lockdown?

 

[dealer wins]

You're an idiot. Sweden's figures, as have been pointed out to you by many people, on numerous occasions, are terrible.
By your reasoning lockdowns should have been much stricter as China have MUCH better figures than Sweden do, and they had a mega strict lockdown. How come they don't have millions of cases considering you state lockdowns increase transmission?
How come our cases fell in November when it was cold and wet during the lockdown?

Sorry, this blows your BS out the window mate. Italy France, UK Spain had really strong lockdowns, muzzles curfews, Sweden didnt. By your logic Sweden should have had 10000 deaths per 100,000 population. Why cant you accept lockdowns anywhere except sparely populated isolated countries make things worse!!!

 

[vorcirion]

View attachment 149735

Sorry, this blows your BS out the window mate. Italy France, UK Spain had really strong lockdowns, muzzles curfews, Sweden didnt. By your logic Sweden should have had 10000 deaths per 100,000 population. Why cant you accept lockdowns anywhere except sparely populated isolated countries make things worse!!!

You know what country comes right after France? Sweden has 1127 deaths per 1milj.
After that comes all other countries. Like Germany 660 per 1milj., Canada 514 per 1milj., Denmark 353 per 1milj., Finland 119 per 1milj., Norway 102 per 1milj., Japan 42 deaths per 1milj., South Korea 27 deaths per 1milj.,
Are you really immune to information?

 

[Slottery]

Also these only pure numbers of deaths might not be really great comparison tool. Many countries recognize (like Sweden what's mentioned often) that they totally failed to secure care homes which caused them loads of lifes in springtime, there are some countries where covid hitted really hard from almost nowhere so they didn't have much time to do anything but did very bad for the moment. But as stated in the previous post, if wanna look that picture with numbers and graphs, they really are not that dramatically different between countries, of course they are not exact same either for various reasons which been discussed here multiple times.

Happy to see in that graph that these differences are not that huge and no country have destroyed, wouldn't make it competition to give medals end of the year, hope all doing well as possible, people do still pass away with covid, if trying to deny and avoid every single covid death, then you for sure make much more harm than good, it's virus with us, unfortunately people do pass away due it, happily it never came so deadly what worse case scenarios in year ago were made, still not 50k deaths in Finland and good that way.

 

[colinsunderland]

View attachment 149735

Sorry, this blows your BS out the window mate. Italy France, UK Spain had really strong lockdowns, muzzles curfews, Sweden didnt. By your logic Sweden should have had 10000 deaths per 100,000 population. Why cant you accept lockdowns anywhere except sparely populated isolated countries make things worse!!!

No it doesn't. It does blow your bullshit out the window though if you want to just look at deaths per million and nothing else (which is, as everyone except you knows, is a ridiculous way of doing it).
Morocco had a really strict lockdown. Their death per million is 224.47. Sweden's is currently 1,093.49. So how does that work then? They are also above France.

 

[sufferinsilence]

This is the reason why I detest the shite being spread on social media by idiots.



'We'll treat him with vitamin C, Vitamin D and Zinc'
'there’s oxygen outside and COVID was declared as a non-infectious disease on 19 March 2020'

What a fucking arsehole. He isn't even a relative!

If a patient wants to go home on his own recognizance the hospital or doctor can't be held responsible if he dies tho. It seems that's the only way to make some people see the reality of the situation. Maybe they wouldn't fight it if the doctor just called it double pneumonia.

 

[colinsunderland]

If a patient wants to go home on his own recognizance the hospital or doctor can't be held responsible if he dies tho. It seems that's the only way to make some people see the reality of the situation. Maybe they wouldn't fight it if the doctor just called it double pneumonia.

there are ways of preventing him leaving here. The doctor could use parts of the mental health act as a start.
I think if he wanted to go home they wouldn't stop him. What they objected to was someone telling him Coronavirus was fake and he wouldn't die if he left.

 

[sufferinsilence]

there are ways of preventing him leaving here. The doctor could use parts of the mental health act as a start.
I think if he wanted to go home they wouldn't stop him. What they objected to was someone telling him Coronavirus was fake and he wouldn't die if he left.

The man wouldn't even make it from his bed to where his clothes are without being hooked up to oxygen.

I've seen (non-corona) double pneumonia with my own eyes, if they think Vit C/D and Zinc is going to fix this, good luck to them.

 

[colinsunderland]

The man wouldn't even make it from his bed to where his clothes are without being hooked up to oxygen.

I've seen (non-corona) double pneumonia with my own eyes, if they think Vit C/D and Zinc is going to fix this, good luck to them.

So have I, my Dad died from it, so did my Mam, so yeah totally agree.
People are scared when they are in hospital and look for any glimmer of hope, so when you get some idiot telling them to go home, it will be safe, never mind that doctor who has had to train for years to be able to do his job, a vitamin C tablet will fix you, then they latch onto that as the hope they are looking for.

 

[shadow123]

When I had a heart attack 10 years ago, a guy in the bed opposite was told the blood tests he had also showed he had had one,
He was insistant that he wanted to discharge himself as he had a plane to catch .despite half a hour of pleading from the staff
he did leave and they had no power to stop him, always wondered if the hospital contacted the airline to warn them about his
condition as obviously he wouldnt declare it.

Seems to me the guy in this vid was very vulnerable mentally possibly due to the covid, not sure what the powers the staff
had to detain him

 

[colinsunderland]

When I had a heart attack 10 years ago, a guy in the bed opposite was told the blood tests he had also showed he had had one,
He was insistant that he wanted to discharge himself as he had a plane to catch .despite half a hour of pleading from the staff
he did leave and they had no power to stop him, always wondered if the hospital contacted the airline to warn them about his
condition as obviously he wouldnt declare it.

Seems to me the guy in this vid was very vulnerable mentally possibly due to the covid, not sure what the powers the staff
had to detain him

The mental health act and the mental capacity act.

Usually you would make a mental health assessment to see if someone is sectionable under that first.

Then you do a capacity assessment which is based on people being able to understand information, retain and process it for long enough to express their wishes

If someone isn't sectionable and doesn't have mental capacity then a best interest process must be followed. That would usually involve
an identified decision maker, usually a medical professional for health decisions and a social worker for social care issues. Gets a bit messy though so the powers aren't used very often, and would rarely be used in something like you saw. In this case though, the bloke was being manipulated by a nutter, and then you have the complications of letting someone out into the community with Covid-19, thats apart from the fact the guy would likely die before he got home.

If you want some light reading the link below shows a few high court decisions that show things can be forced if required, and the contraception case matches this one quite closely, in that a third party is influencing the decision the patient makes.

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‘either under constraint, or subject to coercion or undue influence, or for some other reason deprived of the capacity to make the relevant decision'

 

[Playford7]

Late night granted, just in my house in manchester.

so excuse the mess.

chilli and Mexican rice with red peppers, super hot sauce and some Pitta breads and a sparkling water.

hope we are all well, the heating in here is obscene, can’t turn it down ffs...

 

[dealer wins]

No it doesn't. It does blow your bullshit out the window though if you want to just look at deaths per million and nothing else (which is, as everyone except you knows, is a ridiculous way of doing it).
Morocco had a really strict lockdown. Their death per million is 224.47. Sweden's is currently 1,093.49. So how does that work then? They are also above France.

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According to your mental logic, Sweden who let the virus run rampant, half of all Swedes should be dead. But no, they have done better per capita than most countries that have locked down, and will avoid the economic consequences, and lockdown deaths too, which will be horrific.