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Absolutely disgusting. We were a free country last now, now a police state.
Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion
- Thread starter shadow123
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Freedom's under siege Baby! You must adhere to group think and media conditioning or you will be dealt with harshly.
Sorry, having a little late night fun.
Sorry, having a little late night fun.
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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One thing i noticed about the new vaccine and how it will get used.
Now whether you agree with Lockdown or whether you think this virus is deadliest thing to hit planet or just a flu is each persons own opinion.
But see they have said this vaccine will not be mandatory at the moment. Would bloody hope not.
Maybe i will get the vaccine when ready. But if i do it will be because i choose to take it. The day this country decides it is mandatory and everyone must get it whether they agree or not would be a truly bad day.
They can impose lockdowns fine. They can make it against the law to visit family. Will accept that maybe. But no way can they ever say every adult in the country must be vaccinated. Think there are protests at the moment. Well trying to force everyone out to get this jag would cause chaos.
I know several on here agree with all the lockdown etc. Curious to know if they also believe this vaccine should be mandatory and people should be forced to get it against their will. Not that they could ever force everyone even if they wanted to.
Now whether you agree with Lockdown or whether you think this virus is deadliest thing to hit planet or just a flu is each persons own opinion.
But see they have said this vaccine will not be mandatory at the moment. Would bloody hope not.
Maybe i will get the vaccine when ready. But if i do it will be because i choose to take it. The day this country decides it is mandatory and everyone must get it whether they agree or not would be a truly bad day.
They can impose lockdowns fine. They can make it against the law to visit family. Will accept that maybe. But no way can they ever say every adult in the country must be vaccinated. Think there are protests at the moment. Well trying to force everyone out to get this jag would cause chaos.
I know several on here agree with all the lockdown etc. Curious to know if they also believe this vaccine should be mandatory and people should be forced to get it against their will. Not that they could ever force everyone even if they wanted to.
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Personally I don't think anyone should be forced to have the vaccine. However, if the whole country refused then we would still be sitting here in 2-3 years talking about the latest restrictions and lockdowns, so there has to be an incentive if there aren't large enough numbers having it.
If take up was low, they could open everything up but only allow people who had had the vaccine into high risk areas. So want to go to a pub, show proof you have been vaccinated, same for football grounds, public transport etc. Don't allow any foreign travel, both in and out the country, if you haven't been vaccinated (I actually think, at least some countries, will do this.).
Hopefully it doesn't come to that, as I really don't like the idea that you could be forced to take it, nor the idea that you lose freedom if you don't, but if the take up is so low that herd immunity cannot be achieved then we are going to end up back where we are now, which I don't think anyone wants.
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It's already been made clear that taking the vaccine will not be mandatory, and besides which, they're going to start with care home residents and carers, and then work their way down the age ranges from there, so it'll be a while before it gets to folks in our age ranges. (In the meantime, lockdowns/tiering, social distancing, masks etc will need to remain.)
That said, the vaccines are the only way we're going to get back to what so many vocal people on this thread seem to want, i.e. 'getting back to normal'.
It won't happen through natural herd immunity, the lockdowns/tiering aren't going away whilst the virus is still at large in the general population, so the only way we're going to get 'normal' back is enough people in the population get vaccinated to dampen it down, get the fabled 'R' number well below 1 so the virus is in decline, and start to get actual herd immunity achieved through a mass vaccination programme.
So if you're one of the people who's been railing against lockdowns and restrictions and masks and (hnnnngh) 'police states' and 'totalitarian governments' etc, but now also say, 'No bloody way is the government sticking a needle in my arm with this strange new vaccine', and instead are going to rely on enough other people in the population to step up and get vaccinated - please, have a word with yourself.
That said, the vaccines are the only way we're going to get back to what so many vocal people on this thread seem to want, i.e. 'getting back to normal'.
It won't happen through natural herd immunity, the lockdowns/tiering aren't going away whilst the virus is still at large in the general population, so the only way we're going to get 'normal' back is enough people in the population get vaccinated to dampen it down, get the fabled 'R' number well below 1 so the virus is in decline, and start to get actual herd immunity achieved through a mass vaccination programme.
So if you're one of the people who's been railing against lockdowns and restrictions and masks and (hnnnngh) 'police states' and 'totalitarian governments' etc, but now also say, 'No bloody way is the government sticking a needle in my arm with this strange new vaccine', and instead are going to rely on enough other people in the population to step up and get vaccinated - please, have a word with yourself.
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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That's the point I was getting at tho Chopley.
It has not been made clear at all that the vaccine will not be mandatory. It is stated at the moment that it will not be but that could change. And even today their is talk about changing the policy and actually making it mandatory.
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<<< There's a relevant section for the UK in there too- Joined
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I would be amazed if it was mandatory, if they think they had problems in the summer with protests etc, then wait till they try to do that. It wouldn't just be anti vaccers kicking off, it would be loads who want the vaccine, but want the choice. Even our government aren't stupid enough to do that.
No one in government will commit to anything at the moment as policy seems to change daily, and thats what is causing the rumours. Even if they came out and said on TV at one of the press briefings 'it will not be mandatory' we would still get the facebook fools saying they are just saying that to calm everyone down then will do it anyway.
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UK coronavirus death toll exceeds 600 for first time since May
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But isn't this same government who just keep telling BS and making most stupid things with Brexit that basicly everything they said or promised is lie?
After reading Brexit thread little while, i would be really worried about governments words mean exact opposite what they were told at the time
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Cases are falling by quite a bit though which is good news, especially with drops that big. I said at the start, we wouldn't see any effects of the lockdown until 3 weeks had passed, and clearly figures on deaths and ventilators would rise as they follow roughly 3 weeks after the cases. Hopefully we start to see all the figures dropping soon.
Not sure about the Christmas rules though, do they think the virus goes on Christmas holidays or something ffs.
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The stasi are now arresting
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and brutally manhandling them into police vans. This is not acceptable in a democracy.
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Maybe she didn't catch the twatter post about potential weapons police found, and so being uniformed, was arrested for the concealed carry of a thomas the tank engine fork inside her lunch box. Maybe it esculated when she then threatened to eat herself with it.
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Well I,for one,will be at the front of the queue the minute a vaccine which has been declared safe and shown to work,becomes available because quite frankly,what are the alternatives? Do people think the virus is suddenly going to decide that it has been around long enough and disappear overnight.Full and partial lockdowns have not worked and the longer the Government persists in relying on such measures,the more the economy and peoples' mental health will suffer.
It would also have been more sensible not to announce this five day 'break' over Christmas because the majority of people will not follow the guidance and we will see a new spike in the New Year.A vaccine is the only realistic way forward otherwise we will still be having this conversation this time next year.
It would also have been more sensible not to announce this five day 'break' over Christmas because the majority of people will not follow the guidance and we will see a new spike in the New Year.A vaccine is the only realistic way forward otherwise we will still be having this conversation this time next year.
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Trivia information
from 100 infected in the town i live 100 are non smokers has anyone did some research about covid and cigarettes .
from 100 infected in the town i live 100 are non smokers has anyone did some research about covid and cigarettes .
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@davidsmith56
What time limit would one assume is reasonable for a vax to be declared safe?
Whatever you decide, let me know in a few years how that worked out for you bro.
Regarding cigs, I was actually thinking of smoking another. The previous post just confirmed my decision
What time limit would one assume is reasonable for a vax to be declared safe?
Whatever you decide, let me know in a few years how that worked out for you bro.
Regarding cigs, I was actually thinking of smoking another. The previous post just confirmed my decision
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My initial thought re brexit and covid is the govt activities are incomparable on many levels, but to discuss it properly would probably involve essay type length posts, and revisiting all the brexit related events of 2016-19!
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I think in this video, the woman when asked where she was going, replied 'for a workout', is this the kind of future for citizens unwilling to be vaccinated?
It's people like these who will allow the virus to continue.
Full marks to the Police and glad they dealt with with gobby cow also.
As to other comments on this thread, whats with, it's going to be mandatory to have the vaccine?.
Nothing of the sort has been implied.
Yes they can make life harder for those that refuse and fair play, just don't moan if other countries wont let you in or you cant go to the footie or down the pub. Tough titties.
Personally i will have the vaccine, as i,m near the top of the vulnerable list, and i can't trust
the likes of people in the video.
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I don't believe people should be forced to get it.
But i also believe, they have no right to complain if sanctions are put in place to restrict their movements.
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So you actually support fascism. Wow
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Just making asumptions..
But if people are restricted, where does it stop? Recent history literally proves that by simply gradually implementing something, it is the most effective way to impose the ultimate goal you want to reach.
Not an example, but..
Need to work? Not without being vaxxed approved in this industry m8.
Need to shop for food? You got a vax licence m8?
Alright, I can't do shit. I need some benefits. "But you need a vax approved certificate to claim jobseekers, since most jobs require a vax".
Restrict my movements because I don't want to inject myself with some immediately "approved" shite? Someone who hasn't injected, let alone taken a bloody paracetamol in 25 years, and almost never gets ill in comparison to anyone he knows (and doesn't have a doctor, neither visited one in that time.
I appreciate you once offered me a san mig glass which was unexpected and very kind of you., something I'll never forget .I'm literally drinking from one right now
I've complied eith everything that chop recently went total angry soy boy over. But, no. Just no. I will not be forced to gradually comply with such restriction expectations
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So basically yall want to put others at risk but dont want any consequences because of it?
Im all for that, i should be able to drive drunk if i want to, screw other people.
Who are they to say i cant drive while drunk just because it puts me and others at higher risk. pff fascism
Im all for that, i should be able to drive drunk if i want to, screw other people.
Who are they to say i cant drive while drunk just because it puts me and others at higher risk. pff fascism
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pfft, as if
thats clearly how they get the mandatory covid vaccine in ya
thats clearly how they get the mandatory covid vaccine in ya
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What's the mortality rate of motorist accidents at now? I mean, having measures in place to lower them with anything when under 2% is just trying to keep us under their thumb.
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If the vulnerable people [who want it] get the vaccine and are protected from experiencing severe symptoms, surely that's job done.
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Amen brother.
Everybody should be allowed to do whatever they want to do.
Anyone trying to restrict that supports fascism.
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You said this at least once before, amongst the 350023 pointless gifs you post.... but then, you was always going to say it again. You'll be fine kroffe, relax. No need to worry about me.
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Great comeback. =)
But im on your team this time, this is not like the time you came to defend the kkk member when i was on the opposite team.
No no, this is far more serious, someone is trying to take away our right to be assholes, and i wont stand for it!
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Well, not really imo. You want the spread to stop too so it's better if a vaccine would both help the immune system to fight the virus but also stops you from transmitting it to others.
I wonder if the AstraZeneca Oxford vaccine which uses a different technology also helps with stopping the spread.
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its almost like they are worried you don't want to subject yourself to what they feel you should, because they do.
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What is freedom?
Positive/negative freedom? Democratic freedom?
Perhaps freedom could be seen as:
Socially Responsible Freedom
[...]the lockdown restrictions are in direct conflict with individual freedom, but it says that, we are willing to endure even severe limitations on our individual freedom out of a sense of responsibility for the lives of others. We know that, because of the highly contagious nature of this virus, we hold the lives of friends and strangers in our hands and that their lives reasonably take priority over our choices.
The vision of freedom as the prioritisation of the choices of individuals by means of rights that cannot be interfered with is too narrow.
-- Cahill, Maria: Lockdown v. Liberty: Do we still believe in freedom?, VerfBlog, 20/05/2020
[...]“freedom” is an elastic concept, whose edges, especially in democratic terms, are really flexible. In pandemic times, such edges may eventually be taken to the extreme.
-- Simone Redaelli: Covid-19 and the perception of freedom, 04/08/2020
It really comes down to selfishness really. How long the pandemic has been going on, some months? And people are crying about "I can't do this, I can't do that". The government and media are all evil and me, myself and I are the center of the universe.
Boo fuckin hoo.
How about the right to life? Abraham Maslow's hiearchy of needs?
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To these elderly people too?
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How about the newly made redundant, people not receiving tests and treatment for serious illnesses [in the uk] etc...there are big sacrifices being made and many dangers being increased. [short term and long term]
I don't think lockdown advocates should be 100% confident they're on the right side of history, bearing in mind they're chiefly led by duplicitous politicians, and a media that lies and distorts.
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My post was sarcasm except for the group think and the media conditioning phrase (coined that myself actually).
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We could've avoided the 2nd lockdown. If we had stretched the 1st one long enough to get to almost 0 infections a day and cleared out covid wards in hospitals and THEN didn't import the 2nd wave from a mutation that started amongst Spanish farmers we probably wouldn't be in a 2nd lockdown.
But no, the "freedom" people started whining and crying about the fact it went on long enough and they had to go on summer holiday to do some import/export so now they can whine about our elderly not only dying from covid but also from isolation. They should've taken a look at the 1918 pandemic and learned from that, same shit happened there (mostly documented in American cities) with opening up and having big gatherings which started an even worse 2nd (and 3rd) wave.
Now people want some time off from the virus to celebrate Christmas... Good fucking luck.
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Slightly confused by how this links to my post, and feeling under the weather atm, but:
Are you saying the uk govt lifted the lockdown because of this whining and crying by the 'freedom' people, not because whitty/sage etc advised them?
And citizens should've just known not to go on holiday, even though the big travel companies were advertising and selling holidays, the planes flying out etc.. and how do you know the majority of these people didn't stick to the lockdown rules, and were instead the whiny 'freedom' people?
The top article I linked to about the elderly dying from isolation was written in mid May.
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I'm pretty sure pressure groups had something to do with lifting the 1st lockdown way too soon. Ofcourse I don't have the exact figures. I don't know the exact dates on the UK lockdown, going on the one I know about and that's Belgium. We should've kept our borders closed during summer except for essential travel. Holidays aren't essential.
Hope you feel better soon.
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School sent an email yesterday stating a child in my daughters class has tested positive.
Self Isolation until 7th December.
As a single Dad that means my little boy cant go school. That also means i cant work - two weeks of booked work down the drain and a customer left with half a log cabin and bad weather on the way.
We have no symptoms - yet. My first thought was how this will affect me financially. My second thought was to wipe down all the contact areas, place a big shop online and post a hygienic letter through the neighbours door informing them.
You see Ian is almost 90 and undergoing radiotherapy. His wife Janet is a similar age. Bev downstairs - AKA The Witch - must be nearly 60 plus plenty more neighbours of a senior age around us.
I did think about keeping the kids in the car whilst i finished some jobs. I also thought about collecting my tools. Thing is that as much as i believe my kids and i will be fine I just could'nt live with myself if my customer or neighbours contracted it and died as a result of my carelessness and selfish attitude.
Yes I have concerns of control and thoughts of conspiracy but unless were on the verge of a revolution (last time i checked we were all too content and subdued), follow the rules - just in case. Masks limit the spread and i dont need a scientist to understand how that works.
Self Isolation until 7th December.
As a single Dad that means my little boy cant go school. That also means i cant work - two weeks of booked work down the drain and a customer left with half a log cabin and bad weather on the way.
We have no symptoms - yet. My first thought was how this will affect me financially. My second thought was to wipe down all the contact areas, place a big shop online and post a hygienic letter through the neighbours door informing them.
You see Ian is almost 90 and undergoing radiotherapy. His wife Janet is a similar age. Bev downstairs - AKA The Witch - must be nearly 60 plus plenty more neighbours of a senior age around us.
I did think about keeping the kids in the car whilst i finished some jobs. I also thought about collecting my tools. Thing is that as much as i believe my kids and i will be fine I just could'nt live with myself if my customer or neighbours contracted it and died as a result of my carelessness and selfish attitude.
Yes I have concerns of control and thoughts of conspiracy but unless were on the verge of a revolution (last time i checked we were all too content and subdued), follow the rules - just in case. Masks limit the spread and i dont need a scientist to understand how that works.
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My family has canceled thanksgiving dinner. Generally about 25+ people. Xmas is not looking good either.
Not really a big deal to us. We've had dozens of great thanksgiving dinners and wonderful xmas's over the years.
Any of us would be heart broken forever if we gave any one of the family members the virus and something tragic happened.
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And I really hope that by next year these big dinners are possible again for those that enjoy it!
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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And you wonder why people are sick of this.
Lockdown has most things shut and people losing jobs etc. to protect peoples health.
Okay fine. But in this Country basically they know come Christmas people would visit family. In Scotland it is crazy at moment with all these different tiers. You want to go shopping drive 20 minutes to another tier area. Illegal but people will do it. Going to do a lockdown lock whole country down not different areas every week.
Anyway back to Christmas. Does not matter how bad an area is with infections. Our wonderful Government has introduced the 5 days of Christmas. Where for 5 whole days you can travel to anywhere in UK to see your family etc. You can even jump a ferry to Ireland. You are getting told you can also hug family etc. if you wish.
Seriously and they wonder why people are giving up. We are on Lockdown most of year. People are depressed and losing jobs. People are dying. Numbers seem to be going down but some areas are going up.
Believed that by early next Year things should be better. So instead of bearing with it a few more months and making one Christmas the same as rest of Year no they give everyone a 5 day break from restrictions.
Does not matter what the figures look like at the time it will happen. But they then say because of this their could be a spike in January and stricter measures might be in place again.
Okay people would still break rules and go to family for Christmas so know Goverment has hard choice. But to actually make it a rule that you can go anywhere is crazy especially if numbers rise again.
Crazy is all it is. Can't go into a shop here on 10th December but on 23RD December even if cases are twice as Bad i can go to Ireland or London.
Is it really worth it. People have died and so many unemployed. Just as things look up Government introduces rules that could set things back for a few months just so people can travel for Christmas yet they cannot open all shops in December and give businesses a chance of survival.
And fact they are saying you can get close to people you visit. So the virus is going hey it is Christmas i won't infect anyone till after. Makes people think so why am i worrying so much.
Lockdown has most things shut and people losing jobs etc. to protect peoples health.
Okay fine. But in this Country basically they know come Christmas people would visit family. In Scotland it is crazy at moment with all these different tiers. You want to go shopping drive 20 minutes to another tier area. Illegal but people will do it. Going to do a lockdown lock whole country down not different areas every week.
Anyway back to Christmas. Does not matter how bad an area is with infections. Our wonderful Government has introduced the 5 days of Christmas. Where for 5 whole days you can travel to anywhere in UK to see your family etc. You can even jump a ferry to Ireland. You are getting told you can also hug family etc. if you wish.
Seriously and they wonder why people are giving up. We are on Lockdown most of year. People are depressed and losing jobs. People are dying. Numbers seem to be going down but some areas are going up.
Believed that by early next Year things should be better. So instead of bearing with it a few more months and making one Christmas the same as rest of Year no they give everyone a 5 day break from restrictions.
Does not matter what the figures look like at the time it will happen. But they then say because of this their could be a spike in January and stricter measures might be in place again.
Okay people would still break rules and go to family for Christmas so know Goverment has hard choice. But to actually make it a rule that you can go anywhere is crazy especially if numbers rise again.
Crazy is all it is. Can't go into a shop here on 10th December but on 23RD December even if cases are twice as Bad i can go to Ireland or London.
Is it really worth it. People have died and so many unemployed. Just as things look up Government introduces rules that could set things back for a few months just so people can travel for Christmas yet they cannot open all shops in December and give businesses a chance of survival.
And fact they are saying you can get close to people you visit. So the virus is going hey it is Christmas i won't infect anyone till after. Makes people think so why am i worrying so much.
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So to date the UK is:
Fascist
Totalitarian
A Police State
Why not just add in 'Part of the Galactic Empire' for a laugh, it won't be any more inaccurate.
You seem to equate the above words with anything that stops people from doing the things they want to without taking any responsibility for, or suffering any consequence of their actions, even if said actions have the potential to cause serious harm to others and society as a whole.
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This is what happens when you believe everything you read on facebook
For anyone who doesn't know, the Magna Carta only applied to 25 barons who have all been dead for 800 years and was repealed the year after it was written anyway.
She also got a £10000 fine yesterday, so now up to £27000 for being an idiot.
For anyone who doesn't know, the Magna Carta only applied to 25 barons who have all been dead for 800 years and was repealed the year after it was written anyway.
She also got a £10000 fine yesterday, so now up to £27000 for being an idiot.
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That is a lot of people in one house, and the key for me is your family decided it for themselves [I'm presuming that?] on a cautionary basis, I have no problem with that at all. If someone said the same in the uk, 20+ people coming for a meal, I would be thinking that's not wise. Even perhaps 8, I don't know, age and vulnerability factors of the participants also have to be taken into account.
But asymptomatic transmission is not thought to be the driver of pandemics [fauci said that prior to this year] and I believe a recent study has confirmed it. I would guess over the years christmas get-togethers have been an underlying cause factor for many catching flu's and viruses, some elderly even dying as a result, so it has been part of life no doubt about that.
We've had a thing going on in the uk for quite a while [ pre this year, Prob other countries too ] where people have been expected to go into work when unwell or experiencing symptoms, and then if they feel worse get sent home later. A culture of not being believed unless the boss can actually see you're unwell, but by then you've been in close contact with others on the tube or bus, shops, on the journey in etc... It's never been advised against as a practice by the uk govt as far as I can tell, generally was seen as a good productivity thing. But obviously if transmission of a nasty virus [pre covid] went up this way then the practice put the elderly and vulnerable, further down the line in the link, at risk. [And at 90+ even the common cold can and does kill]
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Any opinion on this, a 78 year old lady put in the back of a police van for the crime of protesting? [ edit: 72 I think but that's still elderly ]
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'Woman arrested for breaking the law after being advised she was breaking the law and would be arrested if she didn't stop breaking the law'
Her crime was breaking coronavirus restrictions on gatherings of more than two people, not protesting,
If I protest by throwing stones at passing cars, I'll get arrested for throwing stones at cars, not for protesting.
Is it nice that an old lady got carried away into the back of a police van? No, of course not. However she wasn't handled roughly and no one was hurt, which is more than can be said about people who cheerfully spread a deadly disease around with giving a shit about anyone else.
If she'd ended the protest when advised to, or at least the group she was part of had separated out as advised to, she wouldn't have been arrested.
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On the face of it it looks bad, however, as usual, its part of what happened that was video'd. The police don't just drive along the road randomly arresting old women.
Reports are that she wouldn't engage with the police, that she was in breach of coronovirus regulations, was moved on and then returned, refused to comply with the current law, and was uncooperative with the officers.
I suppose the question is should old people be allowed to break the law and get away with it, as these questions wouldn't be getting asked if it was a 25 year old lad.
What age do you and @dealer wins think the law stops applying to you and you can do whatever you want? Should a 72 year old woman be treat any differently to a 25 year old lad?
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how many political protests have you seen with two people or less?
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imo anyone looking at these two pics who thinks this is good, just, proportionate etc.. needs to [ala chopley] 'have a word with themselves'
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