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Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

I dunno; I see it as cutting both ways.
While far left may run willy-nilly agenda driven; I also see the left having been willing to stay home initially, follow rules and help flatten the curve, whereas many far right took the American posture of 'muh God-given right to do WTF I wants, others be damned' and kept the lock down cycle perptuating
 
I dunno; I see it as cutting both ways.
While far left may run willy-nilly agenda driven; I also see the left having been willing to stay home initially, follow rules and help flatten the curve, whereas many far right took the American posture of 'muh God-given right to do WTF I wants, others be damned' and kept the lock down cycle perptuating
This left vs right nonsense isn’t helping anything, it just causes more division and hate, not to mention a tribal mentality from whatever side you align yourself.

all totally fuelled by the media, so yeah I agree with you it’s both ways and in no way at all helpful to any of us.
 
I'd like to think there's responsible people on both sides of the divide.

I mean, I'm far-right, and haven't left my room in months
other people call those 'padded cells'
 
I'd like to think there's responsible people on both sides of the divide.

I mean, I'm far-right, and haven't left my room in months
What I mean is we are pigeon holed, as I’m sure you get.

I’m like the kkk rep on here and it’s not the case or reality at all but we are labelled that way.

the media alone cause a lot of this nonsense as it’s left vs right, them against you...

but it’s not true, we all have liberal views and conservative views, we all agree and disagree, even me here is sick of all this...

Yeah I don’t agree with the knee for example but also have issues with gun ownership in the U.S.

can go on forever, but It’s a lot deeper than left vs right.
 
What I mean is we are pigeon holed, as I’m sure you get.

I’m like the kkk rep on here and it’s not the case or reality at all but we are labelled that way.

the media alone cause a lot of this nonsense as it’s left vs right, them against you...

but it’s not true, we all have liberal views and conservative views, we all agree and disagree, even me here is sick of all this...

Yeah I don’t agree with the knee for example but also have issues with gun ownership in the U.S.

can go on forever, but It’s a lot deeper than left vs right.
lol, im assumed to be far-left and actually have LOADS of conservative views
 
I generally just go about my day and judge people by..if yer an asshole by every general standard of being an asshole....get bent
But really, I pretty much like everyone :)
Of course you do, you're Canadian ffs
 
Of course you do, you're Canadian ffs
lmao its probably something we're tested on early, like, 'K, do you hate Billy? You do? Right, across the border wif ya'
 
aaaand
province wide

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"Over the past several days, we have seen an alarming growth in the number of COVID-19 cases in the province," said Premier Ford. "Clearly, the numbers are heading in the wrong direction. That's why we are taking decisive action to lower the size of unmonitored private social gatherings in every region of Ontario. We need everyone to follow the public health rules in order to prevent another provincewide lockdown, and protect all our citizens, especially the elderly and the vulnerable."


Unmonitored and private social gatherings include functions, parties, dinners, gatherings, BBQs or wedding receptions held in private residences, backyards, parks and other recreational areas.


The new limit on the number of people allowed to attend an unmonitored private social gathering across the province is:


  • 10 people at an indoor event or gathering (previous limit of 50); or
  • 25 people at an outdoor event or gathering (previous limit of 100).
 
Oh, so just the over 4+ times more permitted than our Rule Of Six then
Ya
I think I might have posted, dunno, but I noticed when I went shopping, people were taking the figurative inch to the figurative mile

people were lined up, but closer, i saw maybe every 5th person maskless rather than all masked

Better this though than an explosion of cases
 
While everyone knows themselves best but imo goat is hardly far right and dino is hardly conservative.
:thumbsup:

true
the idea is though, you can be a bit of both and its a gradient and not an either or :D
 
So would you say I’m pretty ‘inbetween’
sure
youre pretty... in between two incredibly hideous people


wait, i read that wrong
 
Please stop clogging my thread..

this is corona cooking territory !

Bolognese, all home grown produce!

even added some bacon, and garlic bread on the side, the fresh basil alone makes it a dish of pasta like the world has never seen!..

I was going to build a wall around the pasta to the sauce with my Parmesan cheese but as a ‘moderate’ chose against such draconian measures.

to drink is Ribena (full sugar)
Promised myself a early night tonight but certain heathens have prevented this!

I bid you all farewell until later, god bless and best wishes! (Even chip)

Ben :-)

3927F6DE-7575-4BC7-9640-AFFF7B7ED9BB.webp
 
Talk of 1k and 10k fines is just plain silly,probably wont be applied in 99% of cases but how many people could raise 10k just like that in these times.Originally it was £32 doubling for each offence which probably was too
low.
Would have thought the better approach would have been an amount enough to sting,say £200 but automatically enforced as in speeding fines,Agree that anyone arranging raves or gatherings should be hit
harder though as should employers threatening to sack workers who are reluctant to attend unsafe workplaces.

Saw an item on sky news about a black guy built buit like a brick shithouse kicked a 63 yo man unconcious
because the old guy moved way from him on bus or train as he was wearing his mask on his chin instead of
his face.Suppose it was a respect thing, that guy deserves 5 years as well as a 10k fine
 
Sure, many just are happy with that risk instead of being lockdown for year and make sure they are fcked next 10 years. There are many different things which can cause you long term effects, many different viruses going around all the time and doing it.

Nobody said it's just a flu or cold, but it's not something what kills all the people and should make whole population of planet to lockdown for year. All are free to do that, but forcing everybody to do it just because somebody feel it's good and safe, start to be really wrong. Huge majority from young people get almost any symptoms but are surprised to get positive results, if some little part of these COVID patients get long term damages, that's sad but it happens all the time for different reasons that people damage for some reason for rest of their lifes.

The problem with that approach Slottery is that it isn't just the people who are 'happy with the risk' who end up getting infected, with all the danger that entails.

We're not talking about people choosing to go mountain climbing here, because if a mountain climber falls off a mountain only they get killed. If a COVID-REBEL decides to completely ignore all the rules because freedom or whatever, they can very well end up killing other people, or making them seriously ill, or sentencing them to 'Long-Covid', which is increasingly looking like a genuinely nasty proposition that is currently being under-reported.

And not everyone can choose to lockdown if they want to, even during a lockdown there are a great many people who have to move around within society for all sorts of genuine reasons, and guess what, there's a good chance they don't want to get infected. (During lockdown I got dispensation to move around as I was put on some critical business continuity projects, and I had a letter to show to the police if I got stopped, I'd have been right fucked off if some COVID-FREEDOM-FIGHTER infected me in a building somewhere because they were happy 'taking the risk' and couldn't be arsed washing their hands or whatever, and I then went home and infected my wife and daughter.)

Maybe in UK referendum about restrictions could work, people at least are way better informed than in Brexit one?

Oh you are funny! :)

We live in a world where anti-vaxxers are a thing, so no, I'd rather leave it to the scientists, on balance.
 
Some further reading.

So no, frankly, people shouldn't have the 'freedom' to roll the dice like this on the long term health of other people.

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1600596251948.webp

1600596286758.webp
 
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That's just temporary, wait until 1st of January when power, laws and borders are back, then these stop in a moment when corona sheet says "Action needed" and hippies are gone in few secs af
Yeah its the same round here.

Granddaughter was at a Birthday Party down the street today, bouncy castle, about 8 kids. Bear in mind most are at school together 5 days a week, some sad twat phoned the police on them :eek2:

Who the fuck rings the police on a few kids playing on a bouncy castle, aged between 4 and 7 ffs. Were about 5 adults there, all social distancing, which was obvious from the way they were all sitting on chairs 2m+ apart.

Police turned up, said someone in the street had complained that social distancing wasn't being adhered to, and that more than 2 households were together. He said everything was fine the way it was. What a waste of their time.

Givin people idea to inform police about these groups over 6 is dead on arrival.... This is very good example what can be expected when some good people want just to help society and inform these kind of horrible things happening around.

Happy that police officer was one with brains, they must be happy to get these ones top
The problem with that approach Slottery is that it isn't just the people who are 'happy with the risk' who end up getting infected, with all the danger that entails.

We're not talking about people choosing to go mountain climbing here, because if a mountain climber falls off a mountain only they get killed. If a COVID-REBEL decides to completely ignore all the rules because freedom or whatever, they can very well end up killing other people, or making them seriously ill, or sentencing them to 'Long-Covid', which is increasingly looking like a genuinely nasty proposition that is currently being under-reported.

And not everyone can choose to lockdown if they want to, even during a lockdown there are a great many people who have to move around within society for all sorts of genuine reasons, and guess what, there's a good chance they don't want to get infected. (During lockdown I got dispensation to move around as I was put on some critical business continuity projects, and I had a letter to show to the police if I got stopped, I'd have been right fucked off if some COVID-FREEDOM-FIGHTER infected me in a building somewhere because they were happy 'taking the risk' and couldn't be arsed washing their hands or whatever, and I then went home and infected my wife and daughter.)

You think there's nothing in middle to being COVID REBEL and start to arrange mass gatherings and staying a half-year home lockdown? You can actually leave your home without making huge danger to others, i think nobody suggest to start to arrange stadium concerts or especially big indoor gatherings, but leaving home, going work, going shopping etc... can be done without causing huge danger for these people who would like to locked down next year.
 
So here we have the foreboding possibility of not a national Lockdown, but lots of regional ones, which to all intents and purposes amount to the same thing.

Warnings, looming threats, urging citizens to turn dob each other in, we all have to 'play our part' ad infinitum

But then again, it seems too many are 'beaching' self-isolation guidance (this is Sky News after all) and so I guess that's got him worried, or whatever his advisor told him to say. All the while admitting our testing protocols have been a complete sham, with nothing learned over the previous months

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The sun's headline story, putting aside the morality issues, how would mr jones at number 25 know that mrs smith 2 doors down is supposed to be isolating herself? unless the authorities inform them or stick a notice on their door? Or am I missing something :confused:


Beat you to it! First!

tenor.gif
 
The sun's headline story, putting aside the morality issues, how would mr jones at number 25 know that mrs smith 2 doors down is supposed to be isolating herself? unless the authorities inform them or stick a notice on their door? Or am I missing something :confused:



Snitches used to get stitches but, with the NHS services as they are, they won't even get that :(
 
Guess that these "Shocking News" headlines in many "quality" papers are more dangerous for most than COVID itself. Everywhere you find some "experts of virology" to make great click news and many take these without any filtering. Seem to be great as Brexit news where you after reading story can make quite educated guess which side paper it is....

There are loads of these guys happy to give interviews and it's easy to pick one which fit to papers agenda and to their reades which is then easy to take as fact. Wouldn't take any single doctors interview as fact even it would suit own agenda how well, there are loads of official information instead of doctors personal opinions and their seeings/feelings (cool and impressive looking title don't itself tell much how aware about COVID or other decease somebody is).

And top of that all these politicians who want to make themselves heard. It's not hard to guess that in UK, other side of people blame COVID about possibly coming economical challenges and other part happily put everything in same packet with Brexit which ruined the world (and possibly was root cause for COVID as well). Then of course these restrictions are good to tweak little bit from recommendations made by people who work it is to what think it's what people wanna hear/see, should we make it 6 or 8 people, should we keep pubs open till 9 or 11pm etc...
 
Ahhhh yes those pesky experts, what with their decades of experience in a highly specialised scientific field, when we should really be paying attention to Janine on Facebook who's absolutely sure it's all a hoax.

I remember dear old Michael Gove telling us people were fed up with experts when they were pointing out all the different ways Brexit was going go wrong. And then every single thing they predicted came true.

Still, I guess that's what being an expert in something entails.

1600605219959.webp
 
Ahhhh yes those pesky experts, what with their decades of experience in a highly specialised scientific field, when we should really be paying attention to Janine on Facebook who's absolutely sure it's all a hoax.

I remember dear old Michael Gove telling us people were fed up with experts when they were pointing out all the different ways Brexit was going go wrong. And then every single thing they predicted came true.

Still, I guess that's what being an expert in something entails.

View attachment 142028

There have been "small" inflation in using term expert in COVID news, you use "expert" who gives you best story and worse case scenario, that doesn't make any difference if person in question haven't been doing anything with COVID. Posting news papers stories with some "expert" interviews is bit of BS, why not to use official pages without news additions?

It's very limited amount of virolgy experts who even have been investigating this as their job but instead some others are really happy to throw out their guesses and feelings and for some reason loads of papers like these stories much more than boring ones from experts who actually are working full time with COVID research but can't give you so great interviews and forecast of doom day like these peeps who might be really qualified but just have zero knowledge for this particular virus, wonder which ones should be more accurate?

Can't really see much value in these individual persons interviews who have been dealing with some covid patients, wouldn't you get much more better knowledge from these who actually do research virus itself than some doctor who have been seeing patients in his work? Most of countries and WHO are quite open in their publishings but still many rather take their "facts" from some single doctors interview, can't really follow which is logic behind that, is it better to find story which supports your own opinion or which would be real and accurate as possible backed with big amount of data as possible?
 
never mind brexit we need covexit :oops:

I wonder if these (395) doctor's opinions count for anything, or the 1339 medically trained health professionals who also signed the letter:

Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all belgian authorities and all belgian media.

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some quotes, apologies for the length but to edit it down more will lose the reasoning:

We call on politicians to be independently and critically informed in the decision-making process and in the compulsory implementation of corona-measures. We ask for an open debate, where all experts are represented without any form of censorship. After the initial panic surrounding covid-19, the objective facts now show a completely different picture – there is no medical justification for any emergency policy anymore.
The current crisis management has become totally disproportionate and causes more damage than it does any good.
We call for an end to all measures and ask for an immediate restoration of our normal democratic governance and legal structures and of all our civil liberties.


The concept of health


In 1948, the WHO defined health as follows: ‘Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or other physical impairment’.
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Health, therefore, is a broad concept that goes beyond the physical and also relates to the emotional and social well-being of the individual. Belgium also has a duty, from the point of view of subscribing to fundamental human rights, to include these human rights in its decision-making when it comes to measures taken in the context of public health.
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The use of the non-specific PCR test, which produces many false positives, showed an exponential picture. This test was rushed through with an emergency procedure and was never seriously self-tested. The creator expressly warned that this test was intended for research and not for diagnostics.
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The PCR test works with cycles of amplification of genetic material – a piece of genome is amplified each time. Any contamination (e.g. other viruses, debris from old virus genomes) can possibly result in false positives.
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The test does not measure how many viruses are present in the sample. A real viral infection means a massive presence of viruses, the so-called virus load. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.

Since a positive PCR test does not automatically indicate active infection or infectivity, this does not justify the social measures taken, which are based solely on these tests.
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Vaccine

Survey studies on influenza vaccinations show that in 10 years we have only succeeded three times in developing a vaccine with an efficiency rate of more than 50%. Vaccinating our elderly appears to be inefficient. Over 75 years of age, the efficacy is almost non-existent.
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Due to the continuous natural mutation of viruses, as we also see every year in the case of the influenza virus, a vaccine is at most a temporary solution, which requires new vaccines each time afterwards.


The role of the media and the official communication plan

Over the past few months, newspaper, radio and TV makers seemed to stand almost uncritically behind the panel of experts and the government, there, where it is precisely the press that should be critical and prevent one-sided governmental communication. This has led to a public communication in our news media, that was more like propaganda than objective reporting.

In our opinion, it is the task of journalism to bring news as objectively and neutrally as possible, aimed at finding the truth and critically controlling power, with dissenting experts also being given a forum in which to express themselves.

This view is supported by the journalistic codes of ethics.
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---------------

It's a long letter but seems fairly balanced and comprehensive regarding the known science and gives links to support the opinion.

IMO The authorities are losing the 'fear' battle, the public are starting to question how deadly this pandemic is now, hence switching the narrative to concerns about long term effects, which are not as easily quantifiable or can be determined at this point in time.

Edit: the point being regarding 'fear' that without it the public may not accept the need for the 'new normal'...whatever that entails...regular covid vaccines and tests, restrictions if you refuse to partake etc..
 
Last edited:
Good luck with that open letter. As if government figures, authorities or the Media give two hoots about the effects of Covid or people's welfare :laugh:

It's all done in their own self-serving, agenda-driven interests. As if they give a shit about the collective effects of their instructions, which causes misery to 99% of the population, yet those 'afflicted' is minute at best
 
I see they're pushing hydroxychloroquine....

View attachment 142035

This is the same hydroxychloroquine as.....

View attachment 142036

well it has been successfully used in belgium, there was a hospital study done iirc; the uk trial gave patients massive doses, dr campell on youtube covered this, given early [perhaps with zinq and an antibiotic] it seems to make a difference. [ In vitro tests, done a few years back, against sars also showed a signifciant effect. ]

My opinion it should be left to the doctor and patient to decide if they wish to try it or any other medicine the doctor thinks may help, if doctors at the professor level are advocating it's use, there needs to be strong arguments to forbid it, not just a few badly designed trials set up to fail.
 
never mind brexit we need covexit :oops:

I wonder if these (395) doctor's opinions count for anything, or the 1339 medically trained health professionals who also signed the letter:

Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all belgian authorities and all belgian media.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


some quotes, apologies for the length but to edit it down more will lose the reasoning:

We call on politicians to be independently and critically informed in the decision-making process and in the compulsory implementation of corona-measures. We ask for an open debate, where all experts are represented without any form of censorship. After the initial panic surrounding covid-19, the objective facts now show a completely different picture – there is no medical justification for any emergency policy anymore.
The current crisis management has become totally disproportionate and causes more damage than it does any good.
We call for an end to all measures and ask for an immediate restoration of our normal democratic governance and legal structures and of all our civil liberties.


The concept of health


In 1948, the WHO defined health as follows: ‘Health is a state of complete physical, mental and social well-being and not merely the absence of disease or other physical impairment’.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Health, therefore, is a broad concept that goes beyond the physical and also relates to the emotional and social well-being of the individual. Belgium also has a duty, from the point of view of subscribing to fundamental human rights, to include these human rights in its decision-making when it comes to measures taken in the context of public health.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



The use of the non-specific PCR test, which produces many false positives, showed an exponential picture. This test was rushed through with an emergency procedure and was never seriously self-tested. The creator expressly warned that this test was intended for research and not for diagnostics.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The PCR test works with cycles of amplification of genetic material – a piece of genome is amplified each time. Any contamination (e.g. other viruses, debris from old virus genomes) can possibly result in false positives.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


The test does not measure how many viruses are present in the sample. A real viral infection means a massive presence of viruses, the so-called virus load. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.

Since a positive PCR test does not automatically indicate active infection or infectivity, this does not justify the social measures taken, which are based solely on these tests.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



Vaccine

Survey studies on influenza vaccinations show that in 10 years we have only succeeded three times in developing a vaccine with an efficiency rate of more than 50%. Vaccinating our elderly appears to be inefficient. Over 75 years of age, the efficacy is almost non-existent.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Due to the continuous natural mutation of viruses, as we also see every year in the case of the influenza virus, a vaccine is at most a temporary solution, which requires new vaccines each time afterwards.


The role of the media and the official communication plan

Over the past few months, newspaper, radio and TV makers seemed to stand almost uncritically behind the panel of experts and the government, there, where it is precisely the press that should be critical and prevent one-sided governmental communication. This has led to a public communication in our news media, that was more like propaganda than objective reporting.

In our opinion, it is the task of journalism to bring news as objectively and neutrally as possible, aimed at finding the truth and critically controlling power, with dissenting experts also being given a forum in which to express themselves.

This view is supported by the journalistic codes of ethics.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


---------------

It's a long letter but seems fairly balanced and comprehensive regarding the known science and gives links to support the opinion.

IMO The authorities are losing the 'fear' battle, the public are starting to question how deadly this pandemic is now, hence switching the narrative to concerns about long term effects, which are not as easily quantifiable or can be determined at this point in time.

Edit: the point being regarding 'fear' that without it the public may not accept the need for the 'new normal'...whatever that entails...regular covid vaccines and tests, restrictions if you refuse to partake etc..

One of the "doctors" who was involved in that open letter has been convicted for illegally selling growth hormones to "clients" as a non-aging cure :laugh:

Anyway, I welcome different opinions. From non-quacks if possible.

Edit: to add, he also holds lectures on Facebook how masks don't help etc.
 
well it has been successfully used in belgium, there was a hospital study done iirc; the uk trial gave patients massive doses, dr campell on youtube covered this, given early [perhaps with zinq and an antibiotic] it seems to make a difference. [ In vitro tests, done a few years back, against sars also showed a signifciant effect. ]

My opinion it should be left to the doctor and patient to decide if they wish to try it or any other medicine the doctor thinks may help, if doctors at the professor level are advocating it's use, there needs to be strong arguments to forbid it, not just a few badly designed trials set up to fail.

We use Dexamethason now. Apparently it works better.
 
One of the "doctors" who was involved in that open letter has been convicted for illegally selling growth hormones to "clients".

Anyway, I welcome different opinions. From non-quacks if possible.

So, you would trust this quack?

Duckism at it's finest.

Screenshot 2020-09-20 at 16.29.45.webp
 
So, you would trust this quack?

Duckism at it's finest.

View attachment 142040

Anyday of the week compared some others like this one, a plastic surgeon who had his own TV show:

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Anyway, my last serious post in this topic. How it's handled should be science driven, scientists should instead of writing open letters and confuse the general public discuss this with colleagues. The handling of this virus has been pure politics right from the start and we notice that now with cases soaring, hospitalisations rising and ultimately the death toll will too. All because of what? People with a different political opinion. Virologists and other experts in the field getting death threats because of their professional opinion by anti-vaxxers and other conspiracy nutcases. Sad.
 
One of the "doctors" who was involved in that open letter has been convicted for illegally selling growth hormones to "clients" as a non-aging cure :laugh:

Anyway, I welcome different opinions. From non-quacks if possible.

Edit: to add, he also holds lectures on Facebook how masks don't help etc.

Are you suggesting all these 390 odd doctors and the other 1,000 nurses etc.. are quacks?

was the doctor in question struck-off?

The mask policy in sweden and the netherlands is different to the uk's and elsewhere as far as I know, so not all the scientists agree on the subject. We've never been required to use them in any flu season to my memory, despite thousands dying each year from the flu?
 
Are you suggesting all these 390 odd doctors and the other 1,000 nurses etc.. are quacks?

was the doctor in question struck-off?

The mask policy in sweden and the netherlands is different to the uk's and elsewhere as far as I know, so not all the scientists agree on the subject. We've never been required to use them in any flu season to my memory, despite thousands dying each year from the flu?

Yes, you are completely right. I am done with fighting over this subject as you can see in the post above :thumbsup:
 

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