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I swear, I couldnt even make this up
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Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion
- Thread starter shadow123
- Start date
I swear, I couldnt even make this up
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
Yes, very frustrating but please try and avoid the foulest language otherwise we end up with reports. I'm sure illegal immigrants are locked down as well- one way or the other.
Thanks
- Joined
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The real story here is the near total failure of test, trace and isolate.
When that system stops working in any meaningful fashion, the virus will start to spread and lockdown measures are used as a blunderbuss approach because test, trace and isolate aren't working effectively.
Remember all those lofty promises we heard fucking months ago, about how we'd have a 'world beating' test, trace and isolate system? How we'd have a 'world beating' tracker app? How are those coming along?
Add in serial failure-machine Dido Harding (seriously, just have a Google on her), who told the Commons Select Committee the other day that 'no one predicted' the increase in the demand for testing. Really Dido? After weeks of telling people to go out and start spending money again, literally giving people money to go and eat out, threatening people with losing their jobs if they didn't go back to the office, sending schools back etc etc - no one predicted you'd need more testing capacity?
(Dido can't fail because of who she knows, so it doesn't matter how many times she fucks things up, she always gets a cushy job in the aftermath. dunover's got a sub to Private Eye now but they've been covering her for months.)
On top of that you've got lucrative contracts being handed to the usual suspects when the Tories are throwing public money around (Deloittes and Serco, amongst others), that are consistently failing to deliver the systems they're being paid to, with tens of thousands of tests being voided because they're not done in a timely fashion or the samples are spoiled.
When things are fucked up on such an epic scale, it's entirely proper to look at who's in charge, and saying 'Oooohhh well it would have been just as bad under Corbyn' doesn't count. Corbyn and Labour aren't in power, the Tories are under Johnson, and they've fucked it up, and it's everyone else who has to pay the price.
I'm sick of hearing awful excuses such as 'Well they're doing their best', I'm not convinced that's true, but even if they are, their best, quite demonstrably, is nowhere near good enough.
When that system stops working in any meaningful fashion, the virus will start to spread and lockdown measures are used as a blunderbuss approach because test, trace and isolate aren't working effectively.
Remember all those lofty promises we heard fucking months ago, about how we'd have a 'world beating' test, trace and isolate system? How we'd have a 'world beating' tracker app? How are those coming along?
Add in serial failure-machine Dido Harding (seriously, just have a Google on her), who told the Commons Select Committee the other day that 'no one predicted' the increase in the demand for testing. Really Dido? After weeks of telling people to go out and start spending money again, literally giving people money to go and eat out, threatening people with losing their jobs if they didn't go back to the office, sending schools back etc etc - no one predicted you'd need more testing capacity?
(Dido can't fail because of who she knows, so it doesn't matter how many times she fucks things up, she always gets a cushy job in the aftermath. dunover's got a sub to Private Eye now but they've been covering her for months.)
On top of that you've got lucrative contracts being handed to the usual suspects when the Tories are throwing public money around (Deloittes and Serco, amongst others), that are consistently failing to deliver the systems they're being paid to, with tens of thousands of tests being voided because they're not done in a timely fashion or the samples are spoiled.
When things are fucked up on such an epic scale, it's entirely proper to look at who's in charge, and saying 'Oooohhh well it would have been just as bad under Corbyn' doesn't count. Corbyn and Labour aren't in power, the Tories are under Johnson, and they've fucked it up, and it's everyone else who has to pay the price.
I'm sick of hearing awful excuses such as 'Well they're doing their best', I'm not convinced that's true, but even if they are, their best, quite demonstrably, is nowhere near good enough.
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Just a little point about Labour, I see a lot of people saying they would have handled it differently, wouldn't have done the lockdown, stuff like that, yet it was labour councils who requested the north east lockdowns.
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Well they basically had no choice, because as I said, test, trace and isolate has ceased to function in any meaningful fashion (not that it ever worked that well to start with), and the virus is on the march again.
Remember there's a lag between a spike in cases and the shit starting to hit the fan, and we're also finding far fewer cases than are actually out there, because testing is so shit.
Like I said, lockdowns are a symptom of the failure of test, trace and isolate. Don't blame the people asking for the lockdowns, blame the people who made the request necessary in the first place.
EDIT - I mean, no one does a lockdown for a laugh, it's basically a 'wave the white flag' moment because the ability to contain the virus by proper means has failed.
Remember there's a lag between a spike in cases and the shit starting to hit the fan, and we're also finding far fewer cases than are actually out there, because testing is so shit.
Like I said, lockdowns are a symptom of the failure of test, trace and isolate. Don't blame the people asking for the lockdowns, blame the people who made the request necessary in the first place.
EDIT - I mean, no one does a lockdown for a laugh, it's basically a 'wave the white flag' moment because the ability to contain the virus by proper means has failed.
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
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And we are the only country with this problem
Many countries are trying to do test and trace. Very few have got it working properly.
And even the countries with not too bad systems cases are rocketing.
This country is not alone in the difficulty in containing the virus. Just about every country in Europe has seen a spike in cases and has the numbers spiralling out of control.
And it would not matter if the system was great as people are not following the guidelines anyway.
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- Aug 21, 2017
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Can COVID also be made Tories vs Labour there? In most of the world it's pandemic and people try to fight against it without making it politic. Even in Finland where some certain party is against everything what government do (which is part of being in opposition) has been quite quiet about COVID, most of the people just trust that people in charge, all the experts etc.. are doing their best based on information and circumstances, instead of start shouting that if you would have something differently, we would have been done much better (was it differently during this or something what's done 10 years ago).
Making this to politic rebate is in my opinion quite low and should only happen in US, country of comedies, not in civilized world.
Making this to politic rebate is in my opinion quite low and should only happen in US, country of comedies, not in civilized world.
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- midlands
I know we are supposed to live in a democracy but the decisions need to be taken away from the politicians
and put in the hands of people who actually know what they are doing with the government just approving
whatever laws are required.There are way way too many vested interests, point scoring and backstabbing
when politicians get involved.The test, track, trace has been a total load of shite, costing a fortune and still
nowhere near fit for purpose,why on earth cant we buy a proven system from another country where is actually
works,some countries have had working system for many months now.
Got no time for people saying the whole epedemic thing is a sham and we should not lock down again,
the only way to get through this is by reducing person to person contact as much as possible and hope that
a vaccine is not too far away
Now they are say the r rate is 1.1 to 1.4, if its anywhere near 1.4 we are truly fucked, if my maths are
anywhere near correct that a doubling of cases every 2 days, bear in mind that restrictions have been largely
lifted over the last month there are going to be lots of new infections emerging.
Add to all that the fact we are entering flu season and the weather is getting colder( virus is supposed to prefer the cold) we are in for bad winter.
and put in the hands of people who actually know what they are doing with the government just approving
whatever laws are required.There are way way too many vested interests, point scoring and backstabbing
when politicians get involved.The test, track, trace has been a total load of shite, costing a fortune and still
nowhere near fit for purpose,why on earth cant we buy a proven system from another country where is actually
works,some countries have had working system for many months now.
Got no time for people saying the whole epedemic thing is a sham and we should not lock down again,
the only way to get through this is by reducing person to person contact as much as possible and hope that
a vaccine is not too far away
Now they are say the r rate is 1.1 to 1.4, if its anywhere near 1.4 we are truly fucked, if my maths are
anywhere near correct that a doubling of cases every 2 days, bear in mind that restrictions have been largely
lifted over the last month there are going to be lots of new infections emerging.
Add to all that the fact we are entering flu season and the weather is getting colder( virus is supposed to prefer the cold) we are in for bad winter.
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To get vaccine (if it ever works and how well, if it's effective as flu vaccine, it doesn't help that much) to anough many people it really makes a difference is quite far away, from day one when it's approved and started to given for people is still quite a long it to be available for all.
Virus not disappearing anywhere if everybody stay just home 2-3 months again so would it better that these who want to take 0 risk (should do anything never anyway, people pass away daily without COVID as well), just stay home and use only delivery services and others who want to try to keep their jobs and take this current COVID risk instead of risking to get their next many years (or in worse rest of the life) fcked up, could do that?
Everybody get what their want and vaccine is coming if it's coming (i could make quite big bet that most of "normal" citizens don't see it in next 6 months which is already quite a long time to close globe again).
Virus not disappearing anywhere if everybody stay just home 2-3 months again so would it better that these who want to take 0 risk (should do anything never anyway, people pass away daily without COVID as well), just stay home and use only delivery services and others who want to try to keep their jobs and take this current COVID risk instead of risking to get their next many years (or in worse rest of the life) fcked up, could do that?
Everybody get what their want and vaccine is coming if it's coming (i could make quite big bet that most of "normal" citizens don't see it in next 6 months which is already quite a long time to close globe again).
geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
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As you know I am also in a lock down area close to you and I've just been reading the comments in a local facebook group. It is remarkable how fears over covid has turned to scorn and scepticism about it all in the past week. If this is replicated across the country then the government will have a big problem on their hands if they try to implement harsh measures nationwide like is being hinted at
Well we've been told we're in the Second Wave (officially), and that a full national Lockdown is to be the last resort, once all other options have been exhausted.
Problem with regional lockdowns is that we'll be forever playing whack-a-mole as some areas 'improve' and then others worsen.
So really nothing much is achieved if we have constant blips and spikes everywhere, because having this stop-start to people's livelihoods, schools and businesses isn't exactly what I'd call damage limitation.
But ultimately as Paul's already alluded to, we're not alone in our incompetence, just that some countries have stumbled upon greater success without even doing much different to us, differences being population density, collective mindset and a sprinkling of luck perhaps.
Because no matter how good a system we have in place or infrastructure, it matters for shite if people don't want to adhere to any sort of rules, and so we're left in this halfway house mess
Problem with regional lockdowns is that we'll be forever playing whack-a-mole as some areas 'improve' and then others worsen.
So really nothing much is achieved if we have constant blips and spikes everywhere, because having this stop-start to people's livelihoods, schools and businesses isn't exactly what I'd call damage limitation.
But ultimately as Paul's already alluded to, we're not alone in our incompetence, just that some countries have stumbled upon greater success without even doing much different to us, differences being population density, collective mindset and a sprinkling of luck perhaps.
Because no matter how good a system we have in place or infrastructure, it matters for shite if people don't want to adhere to any sort of rules, and so we're left in this halfway house mess
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I was watching the live feed of the protests from London via Ruptly.
Not many wearing masks though.
Those horses are well trained not to get spooked.
Not many wearing masks though.
Those horses are well trained not to get spooked.
Nothing wrong with people voicing their disapproval, attending maskless = that's reckless in anyone's book
Neither is there anything inherently wrong with speaking out against the Government's response thus far - were it not for some of the attendee speakers, one of them a certain Andrew Wakefield, a proven quack
Neither is there anything inherently wrong with speaking out against the Government's response thus far - were it not for some of the attendee speakers, one of them a certain Andrew Wakefield, a proven quack
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These local data charts could also add amount of deaths and people in hospital or hospital in intensive care, or are these numbers too low to make people stay lockdown and follow strict restriction and therefore just amount of infected and possibly exposed people look better as numbers are high...
Tired to google these numbers anymore (it also looks that following these too closely is not good for your mental health, judged by social media panic) but here IFR % per age groups, it seems quite clear bit everywhere to who this decease is really danger and for who not that much, these are 28th of August, but think quite in line what i posted about whole Europe some pages ago, so at least some estimation:
If you now keep wondering why for some young adults feels important to try to keep their jobs, be able to study (and finance their studies which can also be problematical for some families who have University age kids and lost job now) and not to have year or over break from everything and chance big chance to get financial troubles for years when you can't manage your mortgages and loads of different scenarios from people lives which could feel much worse than trying to keep your life in track instead of locking down home for months now, if odds are something like in this chart, i fully understand view that many have much more to lose in lock down than current COVID risk (first to get it, not that many manage to do even that, especially if you pay bit attention how you behave, keep distances etc...).
If you are over 70 years and have some other risk factors, i fully understand that staying i lockdown is ´probably smartest option and minimize your contacts to outside for your close owns to minimum. In that age you also normally not working anymore and not building future to you and your family There's quite big difference between these life situations like in danger of this virus for them. Also understand that some elderly people who are given 1-2 years time, want to see their kids and grand kids even there is tiny chance to get infected, especially if your partner has passed away, being last two years from life home alone in lockdown is probably not your greatest memory to take with you from this life on earth.
Tired to google these numbers anymore (it also looks that following these too closely is not good for your mental health, judged by social media panic) but here IFR % per age groups, it seems quite clear bit everywhere to who this decease is really danger and for who not that much, these are 28th of August, but think quite in line what i posted about whole Europe some pages ago, so at least some estimation:
If you now keep wondering why for some young adults feels important to try to keep their jobs, be able to study (and finance their studies which can also be problematical for some families who have University age kids and lost job now) and not to have year or over break from everything and chance big chance to get financial troubles for years when you can't manage your mortgages and loads of different scenarios from people lives which could feel much worse than trying to keep your life in track instead of locking down home for months now, if odds are something like in this chart, i fully understand view that many have much more to lose in lock down than current COVID risk (first to get it, not that many manage to do even that, especially if you pay bit attention how you behave, keep distances etc...).
If you are over 70 years and have some other risk factors, i fully understand that staying i lockdown is ´probably smartest option and minimize your contacts to outside for your close owns to minimum. In that age you also normally not working anymore and not building future to you and your family There's quite big difference between these life situations like in danger of this virus for them. Also understand that some elderly people who are given 1-2 years time, want to see their kids and grand kids even there is tiny chance to get infected, especially if your partner has passed away, being last two years from life home alone in lockdown is probably not your greatest memory to take with you from this life on earth.
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Do remember it isn't just about the mortality rate with Covid-19, current stats are looking like about 8-10% of people who have Covid-19 and survive, and never get ill enough to be hospitalised, do however suffer long term effects, in many cases quite debilitating effects, and in a surprisingly high number of cases people who were young, active and healthy before they got ill.
Also there's still a lot we don't know about this virus, but what we do know is that it attacks many different parts of the body in different ways, with various internal organs showing significant damage in some 'recovered' patients.
It really isn't something to be taken lightly, and it really isn't 'just a cold'.
Also note that whilst Sweden didn't lock down and appears to be doing pretty well, remember that the Swedes have been massively better behaved than we have in the UK in terms of respecting social distancing, hand and face hygiene, and so on. Then again the Swedish government has, to a large extent, the respect of the population and thus the moral authority to issue behaviour guidelines that people then follow.
We of course have one of the most powerful men in government going for a 60 mile round trip to a castle with his family to 'test his eyesight', and many senior UK police figures have cited that event as the moment it effectively became impossible to police social behaviour during lockdown and later on.
Also there's still a lot we don't know about this virus, but what we do know is that it attacks many different parts of the body in different ways, with various internal organs showing significant damage in some 'recovered' patients.
It really isn't something to be taken lightly, and it really isn't 'just a cold'.
Also note that whilst Sweden didn't lock down and appears to be doing pretty well, remember that the Swedes have been massively better behaved than we have in the UK in terms of respecting social distancing, hand and face hygiene, and so on. Then again the Swedish government has, to a large extent, the respect of the population and thus the moral authority to issue behaviour guidelines that people then follow.
We of course have one of the most powerful men in government going for a 60 mile round trip to a castle with his family to 'test his eyesight', and many senior UK police figures have cited that event as the moment it effectively became impossible to police social behaviour during lockdown and later on.
The UK's civic collective responsibility is just off the hook, in fact, I'm almost certain we're the envy of the world
Because rather than at least attempt to stick to some form of responsibility, of far greater concern is to get completely shit-faced whilst you still can. Wahey!
Because rather than at least attempt to stick to some form of responsibility, of far greater concern is to get completely shit-faced whilst you still can. Wahey!
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Johnson's refusal to sack Cummings has a lot to answer for.
Mind you, they do say that Cummings has enough dirt on the whole lot of them to make him essentially unsackable.
-----------------
Barton, who retired last year after a seven-year stint running the force, also criticised Cummings’s failure to apologise for his actions and the excuses he gave for them during a Downing Street press conference. “His bare-faced effrontery in the rose garden was staggering,” he said.
Barton said Cummings’s explanation for his trip to Barnard Castle was worse than childish.
He said: “To say that he drove 60 miles with his child in the back of the car, on his wife’s birthday, to go to a beauty spot to test his eyesight, just beggars belief. I wouldn’t have expected a seven-year-old boy who was caught red-handed to have come out with such a ridiculous excuse.”
He added: “So do I think that damaged trust in the government and in the rules? Of course it did. And that’s what the studies are now saying.”
Mind you, they do say that Cummings has enough dirt on the whole lot of them to make him essentially unsackable.
-----------------
Barton, who retired last year after a seven-year stint running the force, also criticised Cummings’s failure to apologise for his actions and the excuses he gave for them during a Downing Street press conference. “His bare-faced effrontery in the rose garden was staggering,” he said.
Barton said Cummings’s explanation for his trip to Barnard Castle was worse than childish.
He said: “To say that he drove 60 miles with his child in the back of the car, on his wife’s birthday, to go to a beauty spot to test his eyesight, just beggars belief. I wouldn’t have expected a seven-year-old boy who was caught red-handed to have come out with such a ridiculous excuse.”
He added: “So do I think that damaged trust in the government and in the rules? Of course it did. And that’s what the studies are now saying.”
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Sure, many just are happy with that risk instead of being lockdown for year and make sure they are fcked next 10 years. There are many different things which can cause you long term effects, many different viruses going around all the time and doing it.
Nobody said it's just a flu or cold, but it's not something what kills all the people and should make whole population of planet to lockdown for year. All are free to do that, but forcing everybody to do it just because somebody feel it's good and safe, start to be really wrong. Huge majority from young people get almost any symptoms but are surprised to get positive results, if some little part of these COVID patients get long term damages, that's sad but it happens all the time for different reasons that people damage for some reason for rest of their lifes.
Governemnt should give recommendations instead of locking people down like jail sentence, with all this non-stop news about this, all should have much more information to base their judgement how much they wanna restrict themselves and even more information what people do important decisions. There are many things we don't know about many things but seems that most just don't want to lose their freedom and chance for decent future live just because of that but would take COVID instead.
Maybe in UK referendum about restrictions could work, people at least are way better informed than in Brexit one?
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The protesters are now throwing bottles at the police !! Managed to injure at least one of their own. Numpties
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lol, i remember our recent out-of-control protest here
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Thats fake protesters trying to start a riot.
Pretty obvious with how aggressive those signs are.
Real sign:
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Yeah its the same round here.
Granddaughter was at a Birthday Party down the street today, bouncy castle, about 8 kids. Bear in mind most are at school together 5 days a week, some sad twat phoned the police on them
Who the fuck rings the police on a few kids playing on a bouncy castle, aged between 4 and 7 ffs. Were about 5 adults there, all social distancing, which was obvious from the way they were all sitting on chairs 2m+ apart.
Police turned up, said someone in the street had complained that social distancing wasn't being adhered to, and that more than 2 households were together. He said everything was fine the way it was. What a waste of their time.
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Horrible bastards, this whole farce is ruining lives and you get some silly karen ringing the police as kids are enjoying themselves, abhorrent and shameful.Yeah its the same round here.
Granddaughter was at a Birthday Party down the street today, bouncy castle, about 8 kids. Bear in mind most are at school together 5 days a week, some sad twat phoned the police on them
Who the fuck rings the police on a few kids playing on a bouncy castle, aged between 4 and 7 ffs. Were about 5 adults there, all social distancing, which was obvious from the way they were all sitting on chairs 2m+ apart.
Police turned up, said someone in the street had complained that social distancing wasn't being adhered to, and that more than 2 households were together. He said everything was fine the way it was. What a waste of their time.
I won’t have Isabelle even utter the words ‘new normal’ as not a thing about this mess is normal at all, and shouldn’t be reached that way.
Loads laid off in October due to furlough ending which I believe it should, now the cockwombles are on about a second lockdown, why?..
Hospitals are empty, there’s more threat of sox biting anyone than this Chinese virus hurting you..
Utter nonsense and as stated won’t adhere to any of it no longer.
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What a difference a few months make.
Seriously folks, we're all now cottoned on to the fact the UK government is literally taking the absolute motherfucking piss?
Seriously folks, we're all now cottoned on to the fact the UK government is literally taking the absolute motherfucking piss?
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Probably the first and last time we will agree mate on anything political.
but yes, they are taking the utter piss!!!.
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That guy has arms almost as good as mine.
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well, that's just great - get the forum cap even lower
pfft
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What’s a forum cap?..
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geez, goatie wants lower limits
but Ben wants to make America Eat Again.....boo, down with Denny's!
but Ben wants to make America Eat Again.....boo, down with Denny's!
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Well you got one thing right in that picture Ben.
You earned yourself a participation trophy!
You earned yourself a participation trophy!
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Chicken legs? I’m lost here! Please enlighten me!
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gods, I'm so tired of explaining these things to you
Ruth BurgerKings-Burger died and can no longer be Apache Chief of the Justice League
The Komonovirus infected Asian Social Media users and now there's a pan-sexual medic
and Boris said there's a lock-down because he couldnt catch Moose and Squirrel
Geez, keep up, would ya
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Ben you can now comment again on the NK thread also the brexit thread.
you are a legend and we are all sorry...
with you now mate! Thanks for the explanation haha
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Hey, thats the same line i use when the club is about to close and you have to close the deal fast.
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I used to have such skills back in the day, now I get put in a taxi and sent on my way haha
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that explains the biceps
*walks away
*walks away
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Anyone still using Cummings as a scapegoat to excuse their own selfish behaviour and disregard for others, should hang their heads.
If people accept it was wrong then why emulate it and play an immature tit for tat game? It just amounts to hypocrisy.
I completely agree with views above, some (on the left) are politicising this virus to their own ends and are so blinded by their partisan views that they can only sit and spit bile towards the government (which does all stem from Brexit btw). This is why things are breaking down in the UK.
If people accept it was wrong then why emulate it and play an immature tit for tat game? It just amounts to hypocrisy.
I completely agree with views above, some (on the left) are politicising this virus to their own ends and are so blinded by their partisan views that they can only sit and spit bile towards the government (which does all stem from Brexit btw). This is why things are breaking down in the UK.
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Covid: £10,000 fines for self-isolation breaches
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