Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[shadow123]

The reasoning was quite simple,you it was hard to get masks anywhere and if they were available the government were not going to pay for them, many countries gave them away free.
Really cannot stand that slimeball Hancock,dont believe a word he says, he was the one saying masks
were useless.

 

[goatwack]

I was going to the gym while this was going on before they closed. Everyone was wearing gloves, keeping their distance, wiping down machines after use and observing all safety regulations. Bottom line is that people who go to gyms care about their fitness and their health and therefore are ultra careful.

Compare that to the opening of the pubs, groups clustered together with no care for social distancing and doubtless shouting and screaming in each others faces at the end of the night.

Sadly Boris looks like he may have knocked down a fair few pints and pasties in his time, but I am guessing he thinks Gym is a guy who empties his dustbins once a week

Yes, as a gym-goer myself I reminisce at my gym session just prior to Lockdown.

Fact is the equipment was blissfully clean and more care was taken than had ever been before. Also attendance reduction by about 70%, which was great....

But of course easy to label gyms 'germ hotbeds' in the public eye, whilst Social Distancing hadn't even been enforced yet, neither was the wearing of masks compulsory on Public Transport etc

So one big balls-up all round! But it's ok, I can take my chances at the local pub, maybe flip a coin

 

[shadow123]

Laughable really, bordering on parody

In summary, care home workers are to blame for the virus rampaging through unabated, NOT his insistence on prioritizing the NHS over, you know, everything and everyone else!

Definitely a low-point for him, I can see what some of his detractors see in him. Even Trump - but we'll leave that for another day.......Thursday maybe?

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Certainly a new low for Boris, shovel untested hospital patients into care homes to keep the hospital
covid death rates low,dont provide protection for the staff and residents of those homes then blame them
when they die in droves, guys not real

 

[Robert Rabbit]

Certainly a new low for Boris, shovel untested hospital patients into care homes to keep the hospital
covid death rates low,dont provide protection for the staff and residents of those homes then blame them
when they die in droves, guys not real

Playing devils advocate here you could argue that the limited NHS resources were better devoted to young and middle aged people who had a chance of surviving rather than octogenarians who were on their last legs. Might sound rather harsh but there were just not enough beds or ventilators to go around so prioritisation was needed. So you focus on those who have 40-50 years ahead of them rather than those who potentially had a year or 2 in some cases.

I might of course think different if it was one of my relatives but from a strictly dispassionate perspective relocating the aged to care homes would make sense. Of course the underlying issue is one which all governments must take the blame for - they were just not prepared for a Pandemic, hence the insane rush for PPE to even protect NHS staff who were having to re-use protective equipment.

 

[slotplayer]

We just entered Phase 3 reopening in my state yesterday. Gym's (@40% capacity, equipment 14 feet apart), casinos, movie theatres, museums, sporting events without fans all are opening so we'll see how it goes.

What is done is done on this virus, its how they prepare for the next one, maybe that G4 if it jumps.

 

[shadow123]

Playing devils advocate here you could argue that the limited NHS resources were better devoted to young and middle aged people who had a chance of surviving rather than octogenarians who were on their last legs. Might sound rather harsh but there were just not enough beds or ventilators to go around so prioritisation was needed. So you focus on those who have 40-50 years ahead of them rather than those who potentially had a year or 2 in some cases.

I might of course think different if it was one of my relatives but from a strictly dispassionate perspective relocating the aged to care homes would make sense. Of course the underlying issue is one which all governments must take the blame for - they were just not prepared for a Pandemic, hence the insane rush for PPE to even protect NHS staff who were having to re-use protective equipment.

So its ok sending them untested into care homes, apart from anything else it put the staff who are much younger at risk,the least they could have done was set up quarantined residences with staff having enough PPE.The care homes residents were cannon fodder, they had no say and probably no idea they were being exposed.
Think we need an old lives matter campaign.
Peoples perspective seems to change according to their age, i am not quite care home material yet but do care as much about them as younger people as we
all should, where do younger people think they came from and how they were raised up?.

 

[bamberfishcake]

The more i watch what he says and the way he tries to almost sneak it as a passing comment sickens me.

Nursing home and care home staff have laid their lives on the line and thats what their leadership has to say about them.

Their usually the salt of the earth. Doing an amazingly underestimated and underpaid job only a select few have the inclination to do.

Maybe he is just pre-empting a nationwide revamp of the care home system for further moneys/bungs privatisation.

Something to kick start the ir bank balances economy.

 

[pinnit2014]

Laughable really, bordering on parody

In summary, care home workers are to blame for the virus rampaging through unabated, NOT his insistence on prioritizing the NHS over, you know, everything and everyone else!

Definitely a low-point for him, I can see what some of his detractors see in him. Even Trump - but we'll leave that for another day.......Thursday maybe?

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Yeah, scraping the barrel with him and Henchman Hancock.

Having had (few years ago) of working with both the NHS and the Local Authorities the summary is: Council's/Care homes/social care are seen as inferior to the NHS, no doubt. You only have to see how NHS bodies can rack up millions of being in the red, whereas LA's have to break even. In lay-mans terms the NHS can piss money up against the wall (and they do) but others have a cautionary finger waved at them, telling social care 'must do better chaps' - it's insulting.

That's even before you get to the whole NHS crusade on delayed discharges - for years the NHS, even pre Covid, has been firing folk out ASAP/Unready to/for the community setting; leaving LA's etc to pick up the tab/consequences; all under the political guise (lie) of 'community'

NHS in Scotland - accountable to Scot Govt (not sure if same down south)

Social Care - to Council's

Surely that has had no effect on the approach - no siree.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Well yes, quite

Though in this case I'm specifically mentioning care homes as they've been treated worst of all, bordering on national scandal. Especially given the conflicting advice doled out to care workers and how the Government have left them to die off serenely in the background

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Probably why it's dominating the headlines and why people are calling for the PM to apologize for his remarks. But of course there's more chance of hell freezing over

So while it saddens me that businesses and the likes of McDonald's were unable to trade for a number of months, it's hardly 'just another' request placed on him at the time is it. But certainly a demonstrable case of "I'm alright Jack"

And yes the whole thing's been bungled from the outset, and I too am puzzled as to how pubs are allowed to open (watch that Social Distancing everyone! Oh shit Mike's stacked it and is piggy-backing John!) and gyms are closed.

Truth be told they're not even comparable, I'd rather the Government had doled out masks et al to nurses and care homes than tell workers masks aren't necessary. A complete and utter disgrace

Apparently the NHS (and others) were fully complicit in the policy over care homes and discharging elderly from hospital. They all agreed. Churlish to target solely just the government...though I agree there are areas in which the government has fallen well short during this pandemic.

The fact is, private care homes (that charge exorbitant fees btw) should have been making their own provisions for the spread of this virus from the get go. The fact of the matter is these elderly patients had to go somewhere, otherwise we'd have seen younger and younger people succumbing to this virus due to beds being blocked in ICU. That is what the government wanted to avoid.

Obviously harsh lessons have been learned...or at least I hope they have.

 

[goatwack]

Gyms to reopen mid-July

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Thank fuck for that

 

[dionysus]

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[dealer wins]

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Lockdown decision was a disaster IMO, trashed the economy and liveyhoods of millions of people for nothing, just like I said back in March.

 

[slotplayer]

Bars, pubs, dance/night clubs and now children's camps aren't opening until phase 4 in my state. Phase 4 doesn't begin until there is a vaccine or treatment whenever that is.

 

[goatwack]

That's nice

So effectively blackmailing the populace into taking an unproven and rushed treatment for fear of forfeiting the right to attend clubs, pubs & whatever else! Where's my clapping seal emoji!

 

[mack341]

Bars, pubs, dance/night clubs and now children's camps aren't opening until phase 4 in my state. Phase 4 doesn't begin until there is a vaccine or treatment whenever that is.

Is your state democratic run by any chance Slotplayer?

 

[slotplayer]

Is your state democratic run by any chance Slotplayer?

Oh yes, the state of JFK. Hillary 60% of the vote here. The governor (Baker) is a Republican but more a Rino than anything else. The rest of government is democratic.

 

[sufferinsilence]

That's nice

So effectively blackmailing the populace into taking an unproven and rushed treatment for fear of forfeiting the right to attend clubs, pubs & whatever else! Where's my clapping seal emoji!

Maybe @Kroffe can make this into an emoji for you using his Paint3D skills.

 

[mack341]

Oh yes, the state of JFK. Hillary 60% of the vote here. The governor (Baker) is a Republican but more a Rino than anything else. The rest of government is democratic.

ah you're in Massachusetts near boston, I thought you were in connecticut

JFK's birthplace at 83 beals street? Terrible what happened to him as well; but his nephew RFK jr is not a bad fellow, keeping up the political traditions of fighting govt injustice and protection for the natural environment etc..

The democrats really seem to want this lockdown extended any which way they can, set their mind on a vaccine 'solution' and that's that.

I'm sure there are enough educated and health conscious people out and about that will require convincing there are no long term ill effects to a vaccine and that it works.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Is your state democratic run by any chance Slotplayer?

Even as a left leaning I can't agree with keeping bars completely closed until there is a vaccine which nobody is 100% certain yet might actually be effective enough on humans even when tests on animals are going "well".

The situation in the USA is very different from over here tho. In Europe we have it relatively under control compared to the USA, and we're determined to squash every (mini-)outbreak.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Bars, pubs, dance/night clubs and now children's camps aren't opening until phase 4 in my state. Phase 4 doesn't begin until there is a vaccine or treatment whenever that is.

Atleast you bought all the Remdesivir... Literally. All of it.

 

[goatwack]

Even as a left leaning I can't agree with keeping bars completely closed until there is a vaccine which nobody is 100% certain yet might actually be effective enough on humans even when tests on animals are going "well".

The situation in the USA is very different from over here tho. In Europe we have it relatively under control compared to the USA, and we're determined to squash every (mini-)outbreak.

Glad yours hangs to the left too. I thought I was the only one

 

[goatwack]

Maybe @Kroffe can make this into an emoji for you using his Paint3D skills.

Cheap post as it's a Gif and not emoji as you alluded to, so that's reported straight away.

But I could let it go. I mean look.....I......the seal............it's so fucking adorable

Un-reported

 

[Robert Rabbit]

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Lockdown decision was a disaster IMO, trashed the economy and liveyhoods of millions of people for nothing, just like I said back in March.

Fact is that the NHS was creaking at the seams, insufficient bed, not enough PPE and not enough ventilators. I work for an organisation which was procuring these items so I know how desperate the situation was.

Without the lock down there would have been many in need of critical care for whom no medical support could have been provided. I'm not saying they got it right, I am saying that without a lock down the situation would have been far worse.

That said I respect your opinion - we just all have different viewpoints. There are even the conspiracy theorists who say it was all a government control tactic - but they clearly already have brain damage

 

[slotplayer]

ah you're in Massachusetts near boston, I thought you were in connecticut

JFK's birthplace at 83 beals street? Terrible what happened to him as well; but his nephew RFK jr is not a bad fellow, keeping up the political traditions of fighting govt injustice etc..

View attachment 136428

The democrats really seem to want this lockdown extended any which way they can, set their mind on a vaccine 'solution' and that's that.

I'm sure there are enough educated and health conscious people out and about that will require convincing there are no long term ill effects to a vaccine and that it works.

Of course they want the lock down extended. This all about dethroning Trump so everything is spun to the n'th degree.
Personally I won't be getting a vaccine.

 

[slotplayer]

Tragic as it all is the US is ninth in deaths 41/100k. Where's your country?

 

[sufferinsilence]

Tragic as it all is the US is ninth in deaths 41/100k. Where's your country?


View attachment 136430

We are sitting in second partly due to the fact we counted all the deaths in retirement homes too unlike most other countries who only count those that passed away in hospitals.

Now, even if we didn't do that we would still be around France and USA's numbers.

I hear Florida has a serious epidemic of pneumonia too... and corona. Hard times indeed.

 

[slotplayer]

We are sitting in second partly due to the fact we counted all the deaths in retirement homes too unlike most other countries who only count those that passed away in hospitals.

Now, even if we didn't do that we would still be around France and USA's numbers.

I hear Florida has a serious epidemic of pneumonia too... and corona. Hard times indeed.

I didn't hear about the pneumonia but Florida has an increase in corona cases.

NY send COVID19 patients back to the retirement homes.

 

[mack341]

I think the US has fared pretty well considering the number of cities, size of BAME population, and level of health problems ( that put people at higher risk ) in the general population. I work it out as 1 death per 2,438 people approx.

I did see a graphic the other day to say that around 3 million children worldwide die each year due to food shortage to put things into perspective.

 

[sufferinsilence]

I didn't hear about the pneumonia but Florida has an increase in corona cases.

NY send COVID19 patients back to the retirement homes.

That's sad. We'll only know afterwards anyway when all of the excess deaths are counted worldwide. Basically our stats of corona deaths are the same as the excess deaths in that period.

 

[dealer wins]

Fact is that the NHS was creaking at the seams, insufficient bed, not enough PPE and not enough ventilators. I work for an organisation which was procuring these items so I know how desperate the situation was.

Without the lock down there would have been many in need of critical care for whom no medical support could have been provided. I'm not saying they got it right, I am saying that without a lock down the situation would have been far worse.

That said I respect your opinion - we just all have different viewpoints. There are even the conspiracy theorists who say it was all a government control tactic - but they clearly already have brain damage

Was it bollocks over run. At best it was at normal capacity, and from April they've been dancing and singing and having the quietest time of their careers. And thats a fact!!!

The whole things a joke, I would be the 1st to advocate a lockdown if this virus had even a 3-5% mortality rate, but seeing it kills under 2 people in a million, its all a colossal overreaction and a devastating one for 1000s and 1000s of peoples livelihoods. Lockdown will be judged harshly and will be responsible for 10x the deaths of Wu Flu in the long run, and financial misery for millions more.

 

[vorcirion]

Tragic as it all is the US is ninth in deaths 41/100k. Where's your country?


View attachment 136430

53rd! Good job finnish people and our government! Helps when having people leading us who believe in science <3

 

[mack341]

I think this article is quite telling from the guardian:

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The showpiece Nightingale hospital in

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will shut next week after treating a small number of patients but will be kept “in hibernation” in case a second wave of Covid-19 infections emerges.

It will close on 15 May. Doctors, nurses and other staff working there were told the news on Monday morning. They will return to their usual hospitals during this week and next.

Originally planned to have 4,000 beds, the Nightingale has treated just 54 patients since it was opened by Prince Charles on 3 April and received its first patient on 7 April. It has not admitted a new patient for a week as London hospitals have had spare capacity in their own intensive care units.

The four other Nightingales that were opened to stop hospitals being overwhelmed – in Manchester, Birmingham, Bristol and Harrogate – will also be wound down, though the London hospital will shut first. All were conceived in March, when ministers and health service bosses were concerned that NHS hospitals risked being overwhelmed by significant numbers of people needing to be ventilated to keep them alive, as Italy was confronting at the time.

But while the Manchester hospital has taken some patients, its sister facilities in Birmingham, Bristol and Harrogate have not admitted anyone.

------
In one way it's good they weren't needed but many people suffering from cancer and other serious illnesses have had no hospital treatment or appointments/tests. So the overall situation could have been handled better surely.

 

[slotplayer]

53rd! Good job finnish people and our government! Helps when having people leading us who believe in science <3

Not bad 5.9/100k. Of course its much easier to control 5.5 million than some of the other countries with larger populations.

 

[vorcirion]

Not bad 5.9/100k. Of course its much easier to control 5.5 million than some of the other countries with larger populations.

You still need to do the right things. Just look at Sweden.
You barely had any real lockdown in US. Now cases are going up and you're doing nothing really.

 

[Kroffe]

You still need to do the right things. Just look at Sweden.
You barely had any real lockdown in US. Now cases are going up and you're doing nothing really.

 

[slotplayer]

You still need to do the right things. Just look at Sweden.
You barely had any real lockdown in US. Now cases are going up and you're doing nothing really.

We had a lock down here. They're doing the same here as any country, concentrating on the hot spots.

 

[vorcirion]

We had a lock down here. They're doing the same here as any country, concentrating on the hot spots.

I think Florida at least opened up way too soon. Wonder if their "lockdown" lasted even a week before they got tired of it. Different states are doing very different things. Maybe your state is doing better than other states. I hope at least!

 

[goatwack]

I'd imagine having a tiny population certainly played a part, but then also one looks at San Marino and they got pasted. I'd imagine it's cultural attitudes that have played a part in its spread.

I alluded to Finland specifically about.....50 pages back, where its denizens would 'play their part' in a collective mindset to eradicate it instead of hoping politicians made it go away. So a proactive attitude if you will.

Then you have societies like the UK and U.S's whereby seemingly personal freedoms trump (pun intended) collective well-being. So effectively wanting everything, politicians to solve everything without us lifting a finger or taking personal accountability!

Some bloke got berated on the bus the other day by a fiery Karen, she laid into him like Mike Tyson for not wearing a mask. Normally I'd have felt sorry for his cowardice, but he actually proceeded to put the mask on HE HAD TIED AROUND HIS NECK ALL ALONG

And here we have American freedoms, granted it is an early clip and they're young imbeciles, but the point remains....



That's not to say people haven't been flouting the guidelines everywhere, but a bit of sun and Lockdown-easing and certain demographics turn into morons

And let's face it, if every corner of the U.K had Covid- testing outposts, hardly anyone would bother going

 

[Playford7]

Was out with my daughter and mother today.
the mother is 65.

My mom was for months paranoid about going out or to a restaurant, anyhow she bit the bullet and we went out to dine.

they had the distancing, sanitisers etc...
no contact and the staff had the old masks on.
It did take away a bit of the experience as I know the staff and owners, but we all had a great time and the place was busy, not packed just nicely busy with atmosphere and done correctly.

I ain’t been to a pub as yet as it’s pretty sad if your desperate to be in a pub whilst these guidelines are in place.

but restaurant wise and eating out is something I’ve no issues with, also can’t wait to get back in a gym...
Only so many free weights a Greek god can use guys..

hope your well.
Ben

 

[slotplayer]

I think Florida at least opened up way too soon. Wonder if their "lockdown" lasted even a week before they got tired of it. Different states are doing very different things. Maybe your state is doing better than other states. I hope at least!

NY has a large Italian population and we know what happened in Italy. A lot of people traveled from Italy to NY and surrounding states before the travel ban. I think the ban was in March.

If you look at the US map and sort the worldometer by states you'll see 4 highest hit states, like my state of MA, NJ, CT all border NY. Over 60.5k deaths just from these 4 states.

I agree, I didn't post it at the time but I thought many states rushed opening by a couple weeks.

When the COVID first started I thought Florida would have been hit hard because Florida is where many people go to retire but the Governor did a good job early on concentrating on the retirement homes, especially when compared to NY.

 

[Robert Rabbit]

Was it bollocks over run. At best it was at normal capacity, and from April they've been dancing and singing and having the quietest time of their careers. And thats a fact!!!

The whole things a joke, I would be the 1st to advocate a lockdown if this virus had even a 3-5% mortality rate, but seeing it kills under 2 people in a million, its all a colossal overreaction and a devastating one for 1000s and 1000s of peoples livelihoods. Lockdown will be judged harshly and will be responsible for 10x the deaths of Wu Flu in the long run, and financial misery for millions more.

I'm guessing this is one of those scenario's where we will have to agree to disagree as we both hold very strong opposing viewpoints!

I believe the excess death rate has been calculated at 64,000 people in the UK, a relatively small number when looking at a population of 66 million, but a very large number if one of them is a close relative.

With all due respect I believe you lost a certain degree of credibility with the statement that NHS staff have been singing and dancing since April - not least your assertion that it is a fact. Not only is this an insult to a fine collection of individuals who have put their lives at risk day in day out, working long hours with inadequate protection for months to save lives, but also a fact is something which is borne out by hard evidence.

 

[Robert Rabbit]

, also can’t wait to get back in a gym...
Only so many free weights a Greek god can use guys..

I beg to differ I will wait a bit longer, my new gym is pretty small and is not 24 hour opening so the times I can get in there it's relatively packed.

Gone through 3 months of playing the game, I think I can manage it a bit longer with my reasonably substantial home gym

 

[bamberfishcake]

I beg to differ I will wait a bit longer, my new gym is pretty small and is not 24 hour opening so the times I can get in there it's relatively packed.

Gone through 3 months of playing the game, I think I can manage it a bit longer with my reasonably substantial home gym

Been to many gyms over the years and none have kept me in shape like my home gym i had in the garage, coupled with football and classes two or three times a week, I love keeping fit and playing competitive sports.

Then one day, well actually two days, two kids came along and i now do nothing.

Watching Ninja Warrior i said to my girl 'shall Daddy have a go at that?' she laughed and said 'you cant do that Daddy!'.....had ti chuckle as shes probably right now. The mind is still willing but the temple is a bit shabby and outdated. Would still love to have a go.

 

[Robert Rabbit]

Been to many gyms over the years and none have kept me in shape like my home gym i had in the garage, coupled with football and classes two or three times a week, I love keeping fit and playing competitive sports.

Then one day, well actually two days, two kids came along and i now do nothing.

Watching Ninja Warrior i said to my girl 'shall Daddy have a go at that?' she laughed and said 'you cant do that Daddy!'.....had ti chuckle as shes probably right now. The mind is still willing but the temple is a bit shabby and outdated. Would still love to have a go.

If you get the chance watch Crossfit - those men and women are awesome. So motivational - and depressing when you see women doing squat lifts with 70 Kilos on the bar, and doing 20 handstands and 4 rope climbs, while you despairingly look at your barbell with a couple of balloons strapped to the end

 

[bamberfishcake]

If you get the chance watch Crossfit - those men and women are awesome. So motivational - and depressing when you see women doing squat lifts with 70 Kilos on the bar, and doing 20 handstands and 4 rope climbs, while you despairingly look at your barbell with a couple of balloons strapped to the end

I dont need to watch Crossfit to feel inadequate lol. I will have a look though thanks.

My kids are into some Ninja kids thing. Has the Rock and some other wrestlers, olympic athletes and general super fit, super strong yanks. There was an 11 year old girl shimmying up a rope quicker than i ever have.

Did you ever try the Insanity workouts? I did them for a while and i like that high intensity stuff.

 

[Robert Rabbit]

I dont need to watch Crossfit to feel inadequate lol. I will have a look though thanks.

My kids are into some Ninja kids thing. Has the Rock and some other wrestlers, olympic athletes and general super fit, super strong yanks. There was an 11 year old girl shimmying up a rope quicker than i ever have.

Did you ever try the Insanity workouts? I did them for a while and i like that high intensity stuff.

Nope not tried them or any of the other video types. I always feel like a total dickhead leaping around in the house watching a video - plus my co-ordination is total dog poo. I am still going down into a squat while they are all leaping to the left and right!

I can lift weights, run in straight lines and cycle - anything which requires intelligence and following basic instructions is way beyond my limits. I did like the Japanese Ninja programmes, but then they brought into American Ninja and it turned into too much of a spectacle.

Anyway, nothing will ever beat Takeshi's castle for sheer athleticism and the joy of watching someone faceplant a door or a rock in the middle of a stream

 

[Kroffe]

Im sure there are some good exercises involved in crossfit aswell, but ive seen so many examples of people doing downright dangerous things in the name of crossfit.
Almost seems like some of the exercises are designed specifically to cause injuries.

Like the crossfit "pull-up"

 

[sufferinsilence]

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[bamberfishcake]

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Interesting stuff. Good to hear they covered the PPE aspect and the survival rate was high amongst the treated.

I take it you agree with this? Do you think your leaders did well?

Edit: I should say 'have done well so far?' Im in the mindset its all over. Hard to not think it around my way.

 

[sufferinsilence]

Interesting stuff. Good to hear they covered the PPE aspect and the survival rate was high amongst the treated.

I take it you agree with this? Do you think your leaders did well?

Edit: I should say 'have done well so far?' Im in the mindset its all over. Hard to not think it around my way.

I think the mistakes they made were made upfront by being complacent when the first reports reached us from China. Not only that but our strategical stockpile of PPE, mostly the less efficient surgical masks, weren't refreshed after they threw away a bunch of masks that went "out of date" after the 2009 flu pandemic.

But this has been the issue in most countries. I admire the fact they've been upfront about the deaths in care homes unlike most of the rest of the world, even tho this has lead to us being the laughing stock being front and center in some Trump pressers and like she wrote in the oped getting bad press around the world after a rather biased/badly weighted report.

From tomorrow masks are finally obligated in stores and movie theatres amongst some other places.

It could've been handled better. It could be worse if you see some other countries still struggling or shutting down again because they've gotten complacent and opened up too fast. Not to say this can't happen again here, especially because of the vacation period now.