Corona virus - Covid 19 discussion

[colinsunderland]

Our world leaders have not been honest at all. This new dominant strain of covid was known about back in mid summer and they sat on it for months without telling us. Where was the reports to the WHO about it when it became an obvious danger? No. They let kids go back to school instead of locking down and creating travel restrictions.
And there is zero evidence that the vaccine will help save one life

I'm fairly sure thats not true, it seems to have been identified as being present in September/October, but has only started spreading in the past couple of weeks. My understanding is that it wasn't identified then either, they worked out thats when it first appeared by going back through the data they have available.
As you're against lockdowns and restrictions though, what should they have done even if they did know in September? If there was a lockdown every time there was a new variant no one would have been out the house since March. From memory, I think there have been over 3000 variants of C-19 found to date, so you can see why they can't bring in extra measures every time one is found. A week ago they had only identified 1100 cases of this new one, which was 0.06% of cases, yet closing education should have been done months ago because of it?

Viruses change and mutate which is the reason why we have new types of flu vaccination every year. Viruses often mutate to make themselves more transmissible so that they have more chance of survival.

Some people think that the mutations are a conscious choice of the virus, they aren't. It's an error in copying the RNA and happens quite frequently. Sometimes the error makes no difference, sometimes it does, obviously those beneficial to the virus will become more prevalent, like Darwin's theory.

Also, people think this is a bad thing, it's quite possible it's the opposite. Viruses often mutate so they are less deadly, but spread easier. Their goal is to survive, if they have no hosts, then the virus dies too, so it's possible this mutation may be less deadly.

There's also growing concern that the government isn't being truthful about it being 70% more transmissible. Seems to be a common thought amongst a lot of scientists that BJ and Chris 'Doctor Death' Whitty have used it as an excuse to 'cancel' Christmas, rather than backtracking after all the critical comments they were getting about the 5 day relaxation of measures.

 

[mina1929]

Here I was thinking Australia was going great and now the numbers are going up again.

There was Victoria with an outbreak and finally it was over and restrictions eased.

Now Sydney had a new case a few days ago from one person to 87 new cases in NSW

Looked at the chart and every state but Tasmania have new cases .

I just want to see my daughter for Xmas, she lives in Melbourne and I'm in NSW.,

Waiting for updates to see if she can travel. Luckily she is driving so she is half way here now but hopefully she doesn't have to turn back.

 

[slotplayer]

I remember the media saying the US hit a record high number of daily cases (85k). That was some time at the end of October. Now its 250k+ daily cases. I thought the explosion of cases was due to all that thanksgiving travel but now I'm not so sure.

 

[dionysus]

We're hitting total lockdown here the 26th for around 4 weeks - no restaurants, schools etc

 

[mina1929]

We're hitting total lockdown here the 26th for around 4 weeks - no restaurants, schools etc

That's really sad, hope everyone will be ok and not go too crazy as this has been going on for too long in every country

 

[irish-ranger]

Almost a year after this post was made, the world has been turned upside down. It's been rough in 2020 but it seems that 2021 will be the proper start of the decade. Hopefully, there will be something good in the future because this has been a tough year. Hopefully, everyone is doing fine because this is not a simple thing and I hope no one else had any issues with this virus this year.

We can all but hope 21 will be a proper start but I suspect we will still be dealing with this bollocks next Xmas.
When the second world war broke out the country was told it would be over in 6 months look how long that lasted.
Its our turn to suffer and all we can do is put our heads down and craic on until they manage to get mass vacation rolled out (which I won't be getting)

 

[colinsunderland]

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Just as an update to my previous post, that article states it was first discovered mid October, by looking at samples collected in September.

 

[Gaz237]

Plate of sausages, plates of bacon; move fork to plate one, plate 2 and then in to-your mouth; saves you the hassle.

Never had them actually; I’m sure they’re as lovely as meat wrapped another meat sounds though.

Only takes seconds to wrap the bacon round before cooking, it's normally done with inch wide streaky bacon.

Add bacon to anything and it becomes delicious.

I would even eat Brussel Sprouts if they were wrapped in bacon, and they are the work of Satan

 

[colinsunderland]

Only takes seconds to wrap the bacon round before cooking, it's normally done with inch wide streaky bacon.

Add bacon to anything and it becomes delicious.

I would even eat Brussel Sprouts if they were wrapped in bacon, and they are the work of Satan

 

[colinsunderland]

View attachment 147475

I usually use good quality sausage meat to make mine, flavour is so much better

 

[Gaz237]

I usually use good quality sausage meat to make mine, flavour is so much better

I agree, ready made ones in supermarkets are not great.

Our butchers make some fantastic ones, can even get bigger ones where the sausages are made with pork and sage and onion stuffing.

 

[colinsunderland]

I agree, ready made ones in supermarkets are not great.

Our butchers make some fantastic ones, can even get bigger ones where the sausages are made with pork and sage and onion stuffing.

yeah theres a butchers close to me taht do decent ones

 

[geordiecolin]

I'm fairly sure thats not true, it seems to have been identified as being present in September/October, but has only started spreading in the past couple of weeks. My understanding is that it wasn't identified then either, they worked out thats when it first appeared by going back through the data they have available.
As you're against lockdowns and restrictions though, what should they have done even if they did know in September? If there was a lockdown every time there was a new variant no one would have been out the house since March. From memory, I think there have been over 3000 variants of C-19 found to date, so you can see why they can't bring in extra measures every time one is found. A week ago they had only identified 1100 cases of this new one, which was 0.06% of cases, yet closing education should have been done months ago because of it?

Viruses change and mutate which is the reason why we have new types of flu vaccination every year. Viruses often mutate to make themselves more transmissible so that they have more chance of survival.

Some people think that the mutations are a conscious choice of the virus, they aren't. It's an error in copying the RNA and happens quite frequently. Sometimes the error makes no difference, sometimes it does, obviously those beneficial to the virus will become more prevalent, like Darwin's theory.

Also, people think this is a bad thing, it's quite possible it's the opposite. Viruses often mutate so they are less deadly, but spread easier. Their goal is to survive, if they have no hosts, then the virus dies too, so it's possible this mutation may be less deadly.

There's also growing concern that the government isn't being truthful about it being 70% more transmissible. Seems to be a common thought amongst a lot of scientists that BJ and Chris 'Doctor Death' Whitty have used it as an excuse to 'cancel' Christmas, rather than backtracking after all the critical comments they were getting about the 5 day relaxation of measures.

This was reported in Reuters which I referred to in here not long after it was published. Why did they keep it under wraps? Not just in the UK but worldwide?

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British Medical Journal :

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If I was against lockdowns and restrictions per se I would not have suggested that the latest lock down deserved some time in order to give the NHS every chance of dealing with what the government was expecting to come. But when I read and listen to so much conflicting information it fuels distrust in me and I would have thought it would in anyone who is prepared to look at as much information as possible then take that info on their merits.
It is not about me being anti lock down or other measures. I have adhered to the guidelines from the start even if I have questioned the wisdom of it

 

[colinsunderland]

This was reported in Reuters which I referred to in here not long after it was published. Why did they keep it under wraps? Not just in the UK but worldwide?

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British Medical Journal :

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If I was against lockdowns and restrictions per se I would not have suggested that the latest lock down deserved some time in order to give the NHS every chance of dealing with what the government was expecting to come. But when I read and listen to so much conflicting information it fuels distrust in me and I would have thought it would in anyone who is prepared to look at as much information as possible then take that info on their merits.
It is not about me being anti lock down or other measures. I have adhered to the guidelines from the start even if I have questioned the wisdom of it

If they kept it under wraps, then I don't think they did a very good job, considering Reuters is the biggest news agency in the world

Anyway, it's not the same, the strain you are talking about is 20A.EU1. The strain causing us problems now is B.1.1.7

Paper on it is below

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The two earliest sampled genomes that belong to the B.1.1.7 lineage were collected on 20-Sept-2020 in Kent and another on 21-Sept-2020 from Greater London.

 

[slotplayer]

Common Sense is the new Rocket Science.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Our world leaders have not been honest at all. This new dominant strain of covid was known about back in mid summer and they sat on it for months without telling us. Where was the reports to the WHO about it when it became an obvious danger? No. They let kids go back to school instead of locking down and creating travel restrictions.
And there is zero evidence that the vaccine will help save one life

It hasn't been known about for months. It has been traced back by scientists to having emerged some time in September. That isn't the same thing as the government knowing about it in September.

Edit- I see @colinsunderland has clarified above.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Its our turn to suffer and all we can do is put our heads down and craic on until they manage to get mass vacation rolled out (which I won't be getting)

Altruism at its finest! Also, not really how mass vaccination works.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It hasn't been known about for months. It has been traced back by scientists to having emerged some time in September. That isn't the same thing as the government knowing about it in September.

Edit- I see @colinsunderland has clarified above.

I'll just do a 'what they said' here because it's important to counter disinformation with facts.

Virologists do this all the time, they track back the origins of mutations via genomic sequencing weeks if not months after the fact, which is how they worked out this new strain originated in Kent back in September.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

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[Balthazar]

Tragedy waiting to happen?

Elderly and vulnerable people all vaccinated but the young are not vaccinated in time before this new severe strain takes hold?

Would you bet against it?

The single most effective event that could happen to slow the spread down is young people being afraid of the virus.

 

[Slottery]

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View attachment 147522

Thought Japan and South-Korea had their ATH:s in infections within last 7 days

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is..... Not good.

 

[geordiecolin]

If they kept it under wraps, then I don't think they did a very good job, considering Reuters is the biggest news agency in the world

Anyway, it's not the same, the strain you are talking about is 20A.EU1. The strain causing us problems now is B.1.1.7

Paper on it is below

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The two earliest sampled genomes that belong to the B.1.1.7 lineage were collected on 20-Sept-2020 in Kent and another on 21-Sept-2020 from Greater London.

Many things are published in very reputable medical journals and news agencies that are not highlighted by the government or media. I am well aware that there are many mutations of the virus and that this one could well be a newer version. This is what I posted back in early November and it was not mentioned by the government or media outlets.
Old URL
The main point is that they have been aware of much more contagious mutations since mid summer yet they sat on it. And even though it was reported back in October that the mutations where less deadly they are stating that they do not yet know if it is as dangerous as the original. That does not stack up.
I am happy to be proven wrong with this new version over time.

 

[Slottery]

"Less deadly" don't add up well to message "Christmal cancelled in few days notice"

 

[colinsunderland]

I'm hearing more areas will be placed into Tier 4 tomorrow/before Christmas, most likely be leaked before then, but at the moment it's suggested the locations will be revealed tomorrow at some point.
Also hearing there will likely be a full lockdown early next year, and the current plan is to announce it on New Year's Eve.

Obviously things change hourly, but the person who told me is the same person who told me other stuff I've posted before it was in the media so no reason to disbelieve him.

 

[Borgie]

I'm hearing more areas will be placed into Tier 4 tomorrow/before Christmas, most likely be leaked before then, but at the moment it's suggested the locations will be revealed tomorrow at some point.
Also hearing there will likely be a full lockdown early next year, and the current plan is to announce it on New Year's Eve.

Obviously things change hourly, but the person who told me is the same person who told me other stuff I've posted before it was in the media so no reason to disbelieve him.

Will the full lockdown shut everything again? Schools etc

 

[colinsunderland]

Will the full lockdown shut everything again? Schools etc

I don't know, but I doubt it personally considering how much they want education open.

 

[colinsunderland]

36,804 cases in the UK. +18,354
691 deaths in the UK. +185
1,875 patients admitted to hospital in the UK. +238
18,943 patients in hospital in the UK. +1,614
1,364 patients on ventilation in the UK. +76

they aren't good numbers at all

For those of us in the North East

128 cases in Sunderland. +88
3 deaths in Sunderland. +2
14 patients admitted to hospital in South Tyneside & Sunderland. 0
212 patients in hospital in South Tyneside & Sunderland. +6
12 patients on ventilation in South Tyneside & Sunderland. 0

1,253 cases in the NE. +793
45 deaths in the NE. +17
230 patients admitted to hospital in the NE & Yorks. -8
2,530 patients in hospital in the NE & Yorks. +47
149 patients on ventilation in the NE & Yorks. +4

 

[Stimpy55]

The worst is just beginning, the virus is mutating.

 

[Gaz237]

Looking like the ports will reopen at midnight tonight, according to Bloomberg.

If true, would expect a news conference soon.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This means the UK overpaid by the better part of one billion pounds.

Turns out being part of a massive trade bloc has its advantages. Headline news I know.

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[irish-ranger]

Altruism at its finest! Also, not really how mass vaccination works.

Well Jack of all trades if your so clued up on the subject why don't u do some copying and pasting and bore us all some more...
Maybe you could include these gun boats you keep Harping on about pffffffff

 

[colinsunderland]

The Sun reporting the Tier changes will be from Boxing Day

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[dunover]

The Sun reporting the Tier changes will be from Boxing Day

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Oh. Does that mean I won't have to watch the DFS and SCS adverts on TV for the Boxing Day 'sales'?

 

[mina1929]

Here I was thinking Australia was going great and now the numbers are going up again.

There was Victoria with an outbreak and finally it was over and restrictions eased.

Now Sydney had a new case a few days ago from one person to 87 new cases in NSW

Looked at the chart and every state but Tasmania have new cases .

I just want to see my daughter for Xmas, she lives in Melbourne and I'm in NSW.,

Waiting for updates to see if she can travel. Luckily she is driving so she is half way here now but hopefully she doesn't have to turn back.

Update: my daughter has arrived, all safe and happy

 

[sufferinsilence]

Scientists from the UK’s New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG) say they are now “highly confident” the new variant of coronavirus is more infectious than others, with a “hint” that it could be more transmissible in children.

According to NERVTAG, the new variant — which is believed to have originated in southeast England — could be around 71% more transmissible than other variants.

“As of last Friday, we felt we had moderate confidence because the data was coming in, but some of the analysis had been done very quickly,” Peter Horby, professor of emerging infectious diseases at the University Oxford and chair of NERVTAG, said during a virtual press briefing on Monday.

“We now have high confidence that this variant does have a transmission advantage over other virus variants that are currently in the UK,” he added.

Speaking alongside Horby, Professor Neil Ferguson from Imperial College London noted that there is a “hint” that this variant “has a higher propensity to infect children,” compared with earlier strains. But he cautioned that “we haven’t established any sort of causality on that, but we can see that in the data,” he added.

Another NERVTAG member, Wendy Barclay, head of the Department of Infectious Disease at Imperial College London, said earlier strains of the virus may have had a “harder time” getting into human cells using a receptor called ACE2. Adults, who have a lot of this receptor in their noses and throats, are “easy targets” compared to children. But under this hypothesis, a virus that can more readily use this receptor to enter cells may make children just as susceptible to the virus as adults, she said.

According to the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, some research suggests the UK strain may "bind more tightly” to the ACE2 receptor, but "it is unknown whether that tighter binding, if true, translates into any significant epidemiological or clinical differences.”

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[paul7388]

Breaking news just made my day.

Do not care how minor a breach it was just fact it was Sturgeon that broke her own rules is good enough for me.

Scotland's first minister has apologised for breaching Covid rules by taking her face mask off at a wake.
The

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of Nicola Sturgeon standing talking to three people at a social distance, but with her face uncovered.
She was attending a wake after the funeral of a Scottish government civil servant who died with Covid.
Ms Sturgeon had been wearing a tartan mask and is said to have taken it off briefly as she was leaving the venue.
The Scottish government's Covid regulations say that customers in hospitality venues must wear a face covering except when seated - including when they are entering, exiting and moving around.
In a statement released to the BBC, the first minister said: "Last Friday, while attending a funeral wake, I had my mask off briefly.
"This was a stupid mistake and I'm really sorry. "I talk every day about the importance of masks, so I'm not going to offer any excuses.
"I was in the wrong, I'm kicking myself, and I'm sorry."
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I say sack her

 

[colinsunderland]

I don't like Sturgeon but it's pretty pathetic that members of the press are stalking her at funerals in the hope of catching her lift her mask for a few seconds.
Considering the rules at the moment, did the photographers really have an essential reason to be there?

 

[colinsunderland]

Unless something drastic happens, these are the changes from Boxing Day apparently

North East staying in T3
Waverley T4
Cornwall and Isle of Wight into T2
Tier 4 for rest of Essex, rest of Hampshire, rest of East and West Sussex, Brighton and Hove, Waverley, Oxfordshire, Suffolk
Likely to move to T4 but not 100% confirmed Norfolk, Cambridgeshire, Rugby
Tier 3 at least for Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Swindon, Northamptonshire, Cheshire and Warrington

Obviously the government changes it's mind on this within hours at the moment, so don't take the above as 100%.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I don't like Sturgeon but it's pretty pathetic that members of the press are stalking her at funerals in the hope of catching her lift her mask for a few seconds.
Considering the rules at the moment, did the photographers really have an essential reason to be there?

At least she's unequivocally apologised for what was, in the grand scheme of things, a minor lapse - which is more than can be said for Cummings and the entire Tory machine of nodding dogs when he had his day trip out to a beauty spot during a national lockdown.

Many police still cite Barnard Castle as the moment lockdown became essentially impossible to enforce.

One would almost think that paparazzi for right wing gutter rags are trying to deflect attention away from the miserable performance of the government on Covid, Brexit, and just about everything else.

 

[pinnit2014]

Breaking news just made my day.

Do not care how minor a breach it was just fact it was Sturgeon that broke her own rules is good enough for me.

Scotland's first minister has apologised for breaching Covid rules by taking her face mask off at a wake.
The

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

of Nicola Sturgeon standing talking to three people at a social distance, but with her face uncovered.
She was attending a wake after the funeral of a Scottish government civil servant who died with Covid.
Ms Sturgeon had been wearing a tartan mask and is said to have taken it off briefly as she was leaving the venue.
The Scottish government's Covid regulations say that customers in hospitality venues must wear a face covering except when seated - including when they are entering, exiting and moving around.
In a statement released to the BBC, the first minister said: "Last Friday, while attending a funeral wake, I had my mask off briefly.
"This was a stupid mistake and I'm really sorry. "I talk every day about the importance of masks, so I'm not going to offer any excuses.
"I was in the wrong, I'm kicking myself, and I'm sorry."
This breaking news story is being updated and more details will be published shortly. Please refresh the page for the fullest version.
You can receive Breaking News on a smartphone or tablet via the

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I say sack her

You may get used to her for when she gets her second Indy Ref and becomes your new Queen

 

[paul7388]

You may get used to her for when she gets her second Indy Ref and becomes your new Queen

Don't even go there.

 

[geordiecolin]

The Sun reporting the Tier changes will be from Boxing Day

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At least she's unequivocally apologised for what was, in the grand scheme of things, a minor lapse - which is more than can be said for Cummings and the entire Tory machine of nodding dogs when he had his day trip out to a beauty spot during a national lockdown.

Many police still cite Barnard Castle as the moment lockdown became essentially impossible to enforce.

One would almost think that paparazzi for right wing gutter rags are trying to deflect attention away from the miserable performance of the government on Covid, Brexit, and just about everything else.

There is another outright lie by Doris. Cummings was never sacked and was at the forefront of these new lock down recommendations.

 

[colinsunderland]

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Daily Mail must have read my post

 

[Slottery]

So seriously government lockdown whole country and two days after tells that there's no need for that, we bit overreacted or were stupid or what so ever?

Would be much more worried about such government who this way take back power than any EU ever. These guys forced you to lock homes ithou valid reason, it can't be so much changed in last two days, would be bit worried if they just take this approach "just in case" and don't give a shit about their people with their rights....

 

[colinsunderland]

From 00:01 on Boxing Day, Sussex, Oxfordshire, Suffolk, Norfolk and Cambridgeshire, those parts in Essex not already in tier four, Waverley in Surrey, and Hampshire - including Portsmouth and Southampton but with the exception of the New Forest - will be escalated to tier four.

Bristol, Gloucestershire, Somerset (including the North Somerset area), Swindon, the Isle of Wight, the New Forest and Northamptonshire, as well as Cheshire and Warrington, will be escalated to tier three.

Cornwall and Herefordshire will be escalated to tier two.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The vaccination programme just isn't going to get ahead of this one, I expect things are going to get very ugly in the new year, the new restrictions don't even start for another three days and people are going to treat their final days outside of Tier 4 as a last chance to have a party.

If anything this is going to end up worse than the first wave.

 

[News Hound]

If anything this is going to end up worse than the first wave.

I am still of the view we are still in the second wave and it hasn't yet peaked.

 

[shadow123]

To add to the misery we now have a second mutation originating from South Africa.
The shits going to really hit the fan if a mutation appears that produces more serious symptoms and is immune from vaccination.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

To add to the misery we now have a second mutation originating from South Africa.
The shits going to really hit the fan if a mutation appears that produces more serious symptoms and is immune from vaccination.

This is part of the problem with the 'just let it do its thing' crowd, the more it spreads, the more infection there is, the more transmission there is, the more mutations there are.

Yes it is true that viruses usually mutate to be less lethal because that helps them spread, but there's nothing to say that Covid won't mutate into a strain that is more lethal and/or the vaccines won't work on.

We've already got a version that's SIGNIFICANTLY more transmissible, ratchet up the death rate on a further mutation, that the vaccines don't work on (which is entirely possible), and we really would be a dreadful situation.