clogs VS the casinos (rigged rtp, etc)

[YouTubeSlots]

The thing that doesn’t add up, is when you have players that have hammered certain games for years and know exactly what to expect, suddenly finding that the game no longer pays or plays, like it used to do.

There is overwhelming evidence to support these findings on games such as Bonanza, that allegedly, still runs at full rtp.

As mentioned, the vast majority (cant say all because I don’t play them) of Netent’s portfolio pay nowhere near like they did. Jungle Spirit is a prime example. Never had a great base game but x500 in the bonus was reasonably frequent. Then all of a sudden hitting a bonus that paid x100 was virtually impossible.

These aren’t coincides or huge runs of bad luck. At best it’s because the maths model has been changed but I honestly think providers are running games at lower rtp’s than advertised.

Let’s be honest, why wouldn’t they? Don’t tell me for a second that they are regulated worth a shite because I don’t believe that either, not for a second. The way the whole thing is set up makes it impossible to nail providers. There are too many outs for them.

Exactly your spot on. I think it would be very naive to presume this RNG in Malta is totally fair and random. Why?

Because were told it is?

Bullshit!

Are own governments lie to go to war and kill there own people. Yet were supposed to have faith in malta and its bread bin server rng machine. And believe that they are fully tested and checked by whoever checks them. And blindly trust there random and all above board in terms of fairness. Yeah ok then

Because that makes total sense doesn't it.

No...

No it doesn't

These rants don't steam from oh hes just had a bad run and moaning its all rigged. Couldn't be further from the truth. Ive noticed and many others have noticed this shit for years. I was glad to see people noticing the same things and that's why i commented.

I would not be shocked at all if one day they are exposed to not be as RANDOM as they pretended to be

 

[snorky510238]

Admittedly, to the untrained eye, it was probably hard to notice 5 or 6 years ago, when it genuinely felt like these games were paying 96 odd%.

Nowadays, you’d have to be blind not to notice, as games are gimped to pay less than 90% even though they’re advertised at 94 odd. There are no comebacks for providers. All they have to say is, they are tested over billions of spins.

Most players won’t complete a million on any single game so will never have a case to argue because the whole industry is a law unto itself.

I am convinced this is one of the main reasons the market is flooded with thousands of games. Most of which are shockingly bad and not much different to what’s already out there. It is so players are tempted to move around and not become overly familiar with one game.

However, there will always be players (like myself), who only play a handful of games. When this happens, you can’t fail to notice the patterns of deposits and withdrawals. I even played at one Casino where it was as close to clockwork as you could get.

32 losing deposits, one withdrawal. Rinse and repeat almost identical every time. Sometimes might take 30, 31 or 33 but virtually every time without fail.

It’s bullshit and it’s time these scamming shithouses were exposed.

 

[Jono777]

If they're as random as they imply, why does every session (ok, most sessions) feel like deja vu? - They weren't like this in years gone by.

Regulated? - Yes ok, I believe you (insert emoji x 1,000)

Over tired now so going to stop before I do a 10K word essay on this bullshit, ruined, greed ridden once enjoyable, now bollocks past time.

 

[snorky510238]

And for those who think we’re mad, imagining things, tin foilers etc.

If you’re going to dive in, make sure you can answer this question.

If games are truly random. Would you agree that games such as Bonanza have millions of combinations that result in losing spins?

By the same token, it will be less combinations but will also have millions of winning ones.

With that being undeniable, how is it that you constantly get frequent runs of 10-15 consecutive losing spins (which defies all probability) but very rarely hit 5 or more consecutive winning spins?

 

[pekka55]

And for those who think we’re mad, imagining things, tin foilers etc.

If you’re going to dive in, make sure you can answer this question.

If games are truly random. Would you agree that games such as Bonanza have millions of combinations that result in losing spins?

By the same token, it will be less combinations but will also have millions of winning ones.

With that being undeniable, how is it that you constantly get frequent runs of 10-15 consecutive losing spins (which defies all probability) but very rarely hit 5 or more consecutive winning spins?

They're programmed by humans so there is no chance that they are "truly" random.

If they were really truly and completely random, then you would get from time to time 10 wins in a row or even more, but you're not getting that. You're right. They are semi random. Of course they cannot be totally random, because that would mean that some really lucky bastard could absolutely put a casino out of business.

Just the fact that there's a max win on a slot means that it can't really be truly random.

 

[interlog]

Just the fact that there's a max win on a slot means that it can't really be truly random.

But the fact there is a max win just proves it is random. The random spins would otherwise just carry on is there was no max win, just as would be the case with DOA 2.

Max wins are there to protect the casinos exposure as far as I understand.

 

[Guntis]

I thought randomness in slots was all about the unpredictability and fairness of the outcome. In most slots - it's obvious that their mechanic in some cases doesn't let you win. So i reckon when testing, they are simply made random enough to meet certain testing criteria applicable to gaming regulators, and that's all.

 

[The Reel Story]

I thought randomness in slots was all about the unpredictability and fairness of the outcome. In most slots - it's obvious that their mechanic in some cases doesn't let you win. So i reckon when testing, they are simply made random enough to meet certain testing criteria applicable to gaming regulators, and that's all.

It works like this.

I have a dice. It is random. I set the rules of the game up as follows.

- you pay £1 to play
- if you roll a 6, I pay you £3
- any other result you win nothing.


The result is random, the rules are stacked against you.

You can also mimic volatility. Make the game pay less on a 4-6 so you win less but more often. Also greater chances of a winning streak and less chances of a losing streak.

If you only win big on a 6, chances of many consecutive wins is incredibly low and chances of many consecutive losses is very high.

 

[TheAddict]

1 thing that caused a brow to raise for me jus before Christmas, was noticing that at Jonnyjackpot, it was showing, for Book of Dead (96%rtp version), that for the prior 3 months (or was it 6, i forget, but i think 3), that it had averaged out at 93% during that period.

I may be wrong, but if i recall, I have read that a 1% deviation is ok during that period. So, assuming I wasn't the only customer during tha period, I'd of though he rtp wiuld be closer to the pre claimed 96%?
I mean damn, they're not all playing on the same stake, and i doubt many are as dumb as me to have been donating at record speed on 1 line, but either way, 3 months is quite a while to rack up some spins, from an entire cusomer base, innit ;p

 

[Jono777]

Compensated random or random within set parameters, a fact we accepted years ago.

Its the parameters which get tighter and tighter every year, or in other words more rigged!

 

[slot_zombie]

Premium Play FOBT red bags have appeared online on the new "Wonder 500" Light & Wonder slots. 94% RTP of course.

So now you don't have to go to a seedy bookies to do your plums in record time. £50 average cost for 5 spins.

Although they absolutely missed a trick with these online conversions (apart from not converting any of their best titles) - you can't pie gamble to bonus like you can in the bookies. I mean come on, that was the best thing, hitting gamble on a decent win and landing on a green section of the bonus pie, the width of a cigarette, and sitting back to enjoy 100 free spins with decent chance of a max win.

 

[clogs]

There's a game called shinning crown, id literally bet my life it's a rigged game.

The higher the win from a spin, the more spins you will then miss in a row.

Hit a 50x, it will take you 30-40 spins to hit again, hit a 25x an you will wait 20 spins, hit a 10x an you miss 7 spins.

You will sometimes hit 15 times in 40 spins, but these wins are always 2-4x.

If your pattern is hitting 10-20x. You will hit 2/3x in 100 spins.

You can play for 500 spins, be down 200x an hit a 300x an it will always always be the most unlucky streak, you will miss 50, hit a 5x, miss another 50, hit a 10x, miss another 60, hit a 12x, miss another 50 hit a 5x. Seen this happen every single time

How do I report them to the police. I've spun this game maybe 600,000x over the last 2 years and I've never been more sure of anything in my life they rig it from the server.

How is it possible to play 500 spins an have a good time up an down, to other sessions where it is just a different game, how do you spin 500 more times an not even get a single taste of what the game was like the previous session.

They are very clever, they take 50x, give you back a nice 30x hit, then take another 50x, then give a 20x an a 5x, then you maintain for 50 spins an then bamm, miss 75 spins an you get a 5x.

I don't see why I cannot report this game to the police since they literally steal money behind a computer program I think is rigged

You know how they get away with it, because people laugh at the idea the police can do anything.

 

[clogs]

I'm serious, why can the police not look at my bet logs an clearly see this pattern that happens again an again an again an again.

I'm sorry but when does a game that each spin is supposed to be random somehow randomly give you 20% rtp after big hits

 

[L&L-Jan]

The one from EGT/Amusenet?

 

[clogs]

Yes, this game an burning hot, rigged. All it takes is 4/5 people an the game is easily rigged

 

[clogs]

Imagine there is an investigation and it's proved 8/10 times your rtp drops to 20% immediately after a big hit until 80% of the money has been given back.

 

[clogs]

I encourage you all to experience it for yourselves

play for 15 minutes an your balance doesn't fluctuate more than 30x profit or loss, hit a nice 80x an watch in 3 minutes you suddenly have given back 70x instead of spending the next 15 minutes not giving back 30x.

 

[clogs]

In other words,

balance is $100, $1 a spin

For 15 minutes you bounce between $70-$130

Your at $92, hit 80x, balance now $172

3 mins later you are down to $105

Then usually you get back to $120

3 mins later your down to $60

It always does it, then you hit a 50x an your st $110, then you go down to $30 in 5 mins, then back up to $70, then straight down to $30 again, back to $55, then down to $10, upto $30, then miss 30 spins.

Its like they give you the exact rush you want an then it switches to giving you false hope an bleeding you dry to entice another deposit

 

[L&L-Jan]

It's not rigged you just need to understand when to bounce away

 

[clogs]

Why would someone have to bounce away when each spin is supposed to be random

If I hit a 70x, how am I supposed to accept I'm suddenly going to miss the next 50 spins in 2 mins when I've been playing 20 mins an never missed more than 20 spins an was maintaining

 

[dunover]

It's not rigged but has a low win frequency and it quite volatile. I just played it on demo for 10 minutes and never got more than 25x and the win distribution seems quite fair. It's weighted towards getting 3 expanding wilds with a 7 on the same line reels 1,5 for a best win of about 1000x. It plays a bit like St*rb*rst. Naturally when you hit a spike in RTP after a decent win it will appear to take it back rapidly, all HV games do this.

 

[clogs]

I've spun it 600,000 times an only ever had 5 single lines of 7, an maybe Another 5 times hit better than a 300x.

The point is it gives you scripts all the time, it's not random.

In this day an age is it really fair to say it's impossible there's a conspiracy to rig a slot to pay 10x more back to the provider than they should be getting.

 

[dunover]

I've spun it 600,000 times an only ever had 5 single lines of 7, an maybe Another 5 times hit better than a 300x.

The point is it gives you scripts all the time, it's not random.

In this day an age is it really fair to say it's impossible there's a conspiracy to rig a slot to pay 10x more back to the provider than they should be getting.

The provider should be getting just under 4% edge on this game at full RTP. You are saying they are getting 40% so 10x more? The providers don't get a percentage of RTP they get a percentage of game rake or a fixed fee (sometimes). The casino would get the 40%. In fact, if you play until busting every time, the casino will get 100% minus game fees/percentage of your play.

As said above, maybe learn to walk away after decent wins?

 

[goatwack]

There's probably a fair to moderate chance it's rigged.

Why wait for a 4% house edge to kick in over what could be months, when fleecing just a handful of players has the same effect, notwithstanding having to throw some bungs at auditors here and there ?

 

[The Reel Story]

You already made a post about this It can't be a coincidence - Casinomeister Forum

If you think slots are rigged, stop playing them. No one will convince you they're not, and if you're so certain why do you continue?

Take your data and report it to all of the regulators.

 

[dunover]

You already made a post about this It can't be a coincidence - Casinomeister Forum

If you think slots are rigged, stop playing them. No one will convince you they're not, and if you're so certain why do you continue?

Take your data and report it to all of the regulators.

Sounds like he wants to go to New Scotland Yard.

 

[clogs]

Well I wouldn't be the first little guy to take on a rigged corrupt system

 

[L&L-Jan]

Well I wouldn't be the first little guy to take on a rigged corrupt system

Go play Power Stars by Novomatic for 600.000 spins and tell us if you spot any differences. The only difference will be the jackpot contributions you paid for, and if you didnt win the jackpots to even your RTP, the results will look different. If you did hit jackpots, its pretty much the same.

Or play Dice & Roll, bit less volatility:

or Dazzling Hot:

Lucky hot is cool too, but can have many dead spins:

 

[clogs]

Like I said, you play for 200 spins an you never go lower than 30-40x, hit an 80x an all of a sudden in 100 spins your down 70x

It's not random

 

[neilw]

Well I wouldn't be the first little guy to take on a rigged corrupt system

Possibly not, but you'll not get far without concrete evidence. A feeling isn't evidence.

You'll need the code of the game you're playing and the results of the licensing verification of RTP for the game, and then you probably need to repeat the process to see if the current results equal what was licensed as a starter.

Then you'll probably need to find someone or some people who have witnessed the rigging of the game, be able to explain how it was rigged and show evidence of how it was done and by whom.

Logs from Servers, playing logs and audit logs of changes around the time of the rigging will certainly help if you can get them.

You need someone on the inside to help you - you won't be able to do it from the outside, and you won't get anyone interested in taking up your case without more evidence than you have shown us.

If that's not enough, you'll need deep pockets because pursuing this isn't cheap.

Or, as others suggest, when you're up, withdraw and take your profit when you can.

 

[clogs]

So my balance was $70 an $1 a spin I was bouncing around

Then I missed 57 spins in a row but 35 of them were full on troll spins, as troll as possible during my dead run

You get troll spins now and then, maybe 1 in 10, but for 50% of the spins to be first 2 symbols or 1st symbol then an expander or 2/3 special symbols, sometimes 10 in a row.

The odds must be insane to get 50% dopamine troll spins just as 85% of your balance is being wiped out without a single hit

Game I was playing was shinning crown. Turned 27 into 70 but then dead spins wiped me out, they call it variance, I call it get you hooked an heart pumping then give you a bad beat so you empty your account on tilt

 

[clogs]

I really like burning hot 20, I've played it hundreds and hundreds of times but online version it's just not possible to win

After 20 goes online I never find myself once in profit, it always takes 100x off me in 200 spins

So today was my 20th attempt starting with 100x and it did exactly the same as the 19 goes before, so goodbye burning hot 20

 

[clogs]

This is a fruits game, no bonuses

I've tried this game 20 times starting with 100x balance, what you see is what happens every time so il just never play this game again now

20 times now, this is what it does to my 100x balance everytime, there's no patience

 

[neilw]

What is the game?

If it's highly volatile it's likely your stake of 1 is too big for the 100x bankroll you have. Have you tried a lower stake like 0.10 to see how that fairs in the long term?

 

[scott dickson]

Either lower your stake or just stop playing these games. How many threads is that you have opened now all bordering on the same subject? I would guess 4 or 5 maybe it's time to take a break from these games. Just my opinion.

 

[frankelvscc]

A lot of games have a bonus frequency above 100x so you shouldn't be surprised if it wipes you out with a 100x balance with no bonus. Lower your stake

 

[L&L-Jan]

Hahaha, you should see my session today. What you post is nothing. But what do you expect? 1000x each session?

 

[goatwack]

Using £1 spins with a £100 starting balance has never been a particularly safe endeavour on most games, even on older games years prior.

Balances might hold out longer, but on any given day, the margin of error's too small, and before you know it, it's 'gracias aY buenas noches'.

With a game playing as described in the thread, you'd think the first scalding would have been enough, but 20 times? It's just throwing good money after bad, chasing down the irrecoverable, in some sunk cost fallacy haze.

These kind of slots serve no purpose, not for wagering, play time or entertainment. Wouldn't surprise me if these games were made solely for money laundering purposes

 

[Elgoog]

rtg

 

[snorky510238]

Looks like Bonanza on a good day.

 

[justdoit]

nothing is paying today lost $600

 

[clogs]

Another 110 spins with 20% rtp, it's so rigged.

 

[Avernite]

I typically do 40-50c a spin with a budget of 200-300. In your case I'd drop the stake down to 20c for better results.

 

[clogs]

To be fair I'm actually up $2000 today, an $3000 for the month lol, almost every time I deposit I win

 

[sufferinsilence]

You're up 3 grand this month and complaining? I guess most gamblers wish they were in that position.

Most, if not all, of us are happy to be break-even come end of month. At least I am

 

[clogs]

Bear in mind during this period 4 times I've had a $700-1000 balance and 5/6 times $3-700 balance and lost it all, could have been alot better

 

[clogs]

Not to mention buying crypto, sending crypto and withdrawing crypto and transferring back to fiat has cost me around $1000 this last 4 weeks

 

[clogs]

Today I hit a $1000+ wins twice from a $2 bet on shinning crown lol, plus many 200xs

 

[clogs]

I gave back 60% though

 

[justdoit]

To be fair I'm actually up $2000 today, an $3000 for the month lol, almost every time I deposit I win

I am up 11k this year but I will not try to force the slot to pay me