Censorship and the "Mob" Mentality

[Webzcas]

This has to be one of the most popular or indeed the most popular online casino forum for players.

Already it offers it's members a wide number of facilities and resources. I am with Jetset in thinking that there is no need to offer yet another service.

Of course there are going to be emotive topics and subjects from time to time and yes people such is human nature will get heated. But by and large the overall moderation and setup in place is spot on in my opinion.

What people have to remember is that this is ultimately Bryan's house and this is a gambling site and forum. Therefore everyone has to be an adult to be able to contribute here. In turn everyone is expected to act as an adult. Having to babysit threads, is counter productive.

If people remembered and realised there are a variety of ways of getting your point of view across, without resorting to the language of the gutter and personal attacks against other forum members. Then there would be no need for intervention from any of the moderators.

 

[Simmo!]

If people remembered and realised there are a variety of ways of getting your point of view across, without resorting to the language of the gutter and personal attacks against other forum members. Then there would be no need for intervention from any of the moderators.

I just planted a Cadbury's Creme Egg. Fingers crossed.

 

[dominique]

if a topic is to be successfully and productively argued or flagged, some responsibility has to be taken by members to try and be disciplined and courteous in framing posts or responses.

I strongly agree with that.

This forum is supposed to help players with information - and often - to get paid.

When you have someone come in and offer to settle debts, chasing them off with attacks and insults just hurts those players who need to get paid.

And that's what's been bothering me about this thread.

You think after reading this thread anyone else who owes players will make an appearance here?

 

[kakata]

I strongly agree with that.

This forum is supposed to help players with information - and often - to get paid.

When you have someone come in and offer to settle debts, chasing them off with attacks and insults just hurts those players who need to get paid.

And that's what's been bothering me about this thread.

You think after reading this thread anyone else who owes players will make an appearance here?

why dom? if they are so insensitive to owe money....would they care about showin up here? I dont think so

 

[bb28]

I strongly agree with that.

This forum is supposed to help players with information - and often - to get paid.

When you have someone come in and offer to settle debts, chasing them off with attacks and insults just hurts those players who need to get paid.

And that's what's been bothering me about this thread.

You think after reading this thread anyone else who owes players will make an appearance here?

I think you mean that thread, instead of this one and Marty is still here as evidenced by his post just a little while ago.

 

[jetset]

I strongly agree with that.

This forum is supposed to help players with information - and often - to get paid.

When you have someone come in and offer to settle debts, chasing them off with attacks and insults just hurts those players who need to get paid.

And that's what's been bothering me about this thread.

You think after reading this thread anyone else who owes players will make an appearance here?

I think you have to remember that the abusive stuff came from a minority, which was duly taken care of.

As a general observation, I do not believe that Marty was personally given a hard time.

The same cannot be said for his employers, however, but in all fairness they could not possibly expect anything better given their track record.

As has been pointed out by several posters already, just rocking up and saying it's all going to be sorted out is one thing - arriving with a long term comprehensive plan and some results in hand to give it credibility could be quite another.

 

[dominique]

Wow, 3x quoted, a record for me!

Yes, I meant the Marty thread. Sorry, I should have been more clear.

No, I didn't mean Marty would go away, he's determined to make a difference, for now anyway, and I doubt he will run for the hills because of any remarks or attacks. That's not his character.

I meant OTHER places that owe - it takes a certain type of personality to persevere when under attack. Most people would throw up their arms in the air and chant: I tried, I tried, but they didn't want it. And leave, feeling justified and absolved. Or leave and cry, depending on personality.

One example of this was Grand Prive - they couldn't stand the heat they drew from angry affiliates and look how that ended. They fled the scene and fled the scene again by leaving Microgaming when that situation became heated.

Some people hold up well under fire, and some crumble.

In normal conversation, that's one thing, all the regular posters here know each other and know not to take everything seriously.

But when you have a rep walking in the door with $ bills for unpaid players, and he gets beat up, other reps will take note. And I doubt many would follow suit, who wants to get beat up for settling debts?

 

[Webzcas]

32Red took over in recent times NedPlay and Golden Lounge. Yes they used the forums to communicate with players that were owed monies and had pending withdrawals with these casinos. BUT - I bet any money they ensured ALL issues were resolved and resolved satisfactorily - and those players who contacted the likes of Pat and team via the forum made up a small percentage of outstanding issues.

My point being. Yes it is all very well Marty going on a charm offensive and his intentions may well be honourable. BUT until Virtual resolve all outstanding issues which stretch back 10 or so years, they should expect short shrift from the player community.

Virtual in the meantime certainly are making use of Marty's apparent resolve to clear up issues as a PR campaign to attract new business.

Hence why many, myself included found the recent PR distasteful at best.

 

[The Dude]

...Nazi dictators who censor the Internet as part of a pro-casino conspiracy

Sounds kinda catchy, don't it?

 

[RobWin]

Sounds kinda catchy, don't it?

First off, I think you need to move Dom's post #103 and every post afterwords to my thread here since it would be more relevant to that thread and that thread topic....Just got thru reading all the thread split-ups

I'll be back to answer your's and Simmos question in a few...thanks for asking as well, both of you...
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[suzecat]

I'm lost ............ is there a road map somewhere to help locate the posts that went awol?

 

[dominique]

Lol, I am utterly confused as well and likely posted in the wrong thread - although I did mean to address "censorship and mob mentality" as the perdominant topic and cited the Marty thread just as an example.

I don't really have anything to say about things in the Marty thread that wasn't said already...

 

[skiny]

From now on I'm posting everything here just to see where Bryan moves it.

 

[RobWin]

Damn....Was there at least a message left by whomever deleted it stating that so and so's "Post Has Been Deleted"??

And a reason why it was deleted also?
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For the record I deleted the post in question last night just to calm things down. It was Sunday, I was trying to watch the climax to the football leagues, I was getting was "reported posts" and PM's from people with "he said/she said" arguments and yes I was very pissed off at the interuptions.

I can certainly appreciate and respect the fact that you would rather not have been bothered while being involved with a game or something else of great passion instead of splitting up peeps from back and forth rebuttal?/arguing? ....it's all relative to each of our own perceptions for sure.

It was clear that the people involved were just going at each other - I still don't really know why to be honest - and there was a) never going to be a resoulution and b) it was derailing threads.

I totally agree with you that it was in fact derailing the thread and it should have been split off much earlier in the thread when WW was on the mount of olives for the 3rd time at the latest.

I had two choices: ban the two people directly involved for 24 hours or remove the offending material.

That's a tough one for sure, but with all the previous evidence (that is if you had been tuned in and following the particular thread closely, no disrespect intended there my friend ), I think you too would have seen the clear instigator and thread derailer there, sorry WW but I can not at all agree with your "Sermon on the Mount Speech", over and over and over again there, like you were chastising children. Once, maybe twice, hell...even a 3rd time tops to get your point across or even post something a little different but on the same lines, maybe even a few good analogies....that would have worked to. You had already given Marty full extrication there. But you still carried it into other threads as well.

But to go on and on and on about the same thing was just way over the top IMO. I totally agree with everything Jetset said there in that thread regarding that very issue.

So back to my point Simmo, In light of the above and following the thread closely, I would have gave WW a 24 hour timeout. I'm only talking about Dave and WW here as that is what you and Bryan asked me about. Maybe a few "infractions", gain too many "infractions" in the same day or within the same thread then....you're gonna have a bad day. Gain 2 or 3 infractions and you get a 24-72 hour timeout, banished from the forum for a cooling off period. You 'French Fry when you should have Pizza-ed'...you're gonna have a bad day. It works, I know...I had one of those myself a few months back...

As far as Dave's post is concerned, I personally did not see anything at all inflammatory in it and he also did state that he could not have posted that in the other thread because it had been previously closed and that he was simply rebutting to WW's latest post there where she quoted him....I really saw nothing at all in Dave's post HERE post #363409 that I thought was offensive either.

I closed one thread and then *soft* deleted this post (meaning other admins can check it out before deletion) because it had nothing to do with the original topic and I saw it as being inflamatory.

I will agree to disagree with you on that one. I think it's all relative to the particular reader. But when posts are deleted like that, it screws up the entire topic flow or the structure. Makes the whole thing go out of perspective...for example: When you said Here "Keep on topic please Dave. Thx.", I thought you were referring to Rusty's post Here since Dave's post was now missing and yours was right after Rusty's. Deleting posts can certainly make a quagmire out of the thread IMO.

I then started getting PM's accusing me of taking sides, being hypocritical, etc etc and quite frankly I had better things to do than referee a fight last night.

I apologise if I offended anyone in what was clearly a sensitive topic but I just wanted the squabbling to end and to watch Blackpool make it the playoff finals.

I can understand that and I can clearly see that as well in your personality that I have come to know here and a few other places over the years. If I were ever out partying and drinking with you, I would certainly want you by my side to step in and help keep me from getting my ass kicked by being the great diplomat and person that you are..

Incidentally - when I soft delete a post I see a message saying "This post has been deleted by Simmo because.....<reason>". Do regular users not see that?

Nope, not even old or senior (senile) members like myself can either. That's what got my goat the time about a month ago or so when you deleted that 'one sentence post' of mine and I went back and asked about where the heck it was. Leave the posts, issue the infractions. Split the posts off if need be, but do not delete them. You start down the road of deleting posts and then someone new comes in to visit the forum and they will have a totally different perspective on who that person's real or 'forum real' personality is. It takes too much out of perspective when that happens. You could also show the 'infractions' that poster has received as well up there next to their posts count.

@Robwin: I'd love to hear how you would have handled a post/poster you considered inflammatory, offensive or off-topic?

Hope you can deciper my answer from all of the above Simmo, sure I could have bullet pointed my main objectives there but then that would have been too easy for you!

Hi Rob! Same here. If you were a moderator, what would you have done? Bearing in mind that Simmo had limited time to deal with this effectively.

I think I answered your question up above Bryan as I just combined my thoughts and ideas there under Simmos's quotes.

IMO, the 'limited time' part of the equation is at the core of all this. It is time my friend that you hire, appoint, capture whatever you want to call it...a full time "weekend forum moderator". You are there buddy, you have been there for some time now....just do it already and then you won't be so damn grumpy when you come in on Monday mornings...

Seriously, you need a full time weekend forum mod here (no offense Max, Simmo, Webzcas). Split the shifts of a few mods if need be. I'm not talking about forum Nazi police either, just someone to do it full-time or in full-time shifts to keep the civility and order before it gets out of hand. And to be there to split off threads, etc. etc. This forum has been needing one for quite some time now as we have seen these weekend derailments, bashings, mosh pits for awhile now. This way if a thread derailment does get started then it can be split off right away, the infractions issued, everyone gets back to their business in whatever particular thread they were focusing on and most will remain happy campers.

Hell, start a private section like Simmo suggested with a different slant than what Simmo is thinking I believe but for those brazen ones to join in and let the steam roll off and then come back into the forum when they have cooled off a little. Banish them to the "Mosh Pit"!

I think you should seriously consider implementing the "infraction system" for all to see.

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[Simmo!]

Points taken I thought banning the users was a bit OTT at the time but hey, it was an option...just chose the other one thinking it would be less contentious. Possibly not. In retrospect. But if anyone interrupts me tomorrow while I am playing Thunderstruck 2*, heads will roll

Regards the weekend thing - we generally respond to reported posts because they get emailed to us. Just an FYI. And as Bryan pointed out, the message indicating a deleted post was only visible to certain users which I was unaware of, but thats sorted now.


* I just got hold of the Intro Movie

 

[RobWin]

* I just got hold of the Intro Movie

whaaaaat, email it please..:notworthy
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[jod5413]

I just wanted to say thanks to Jetset for his calm and rational demeanor, I wish some of that would rub off on me sometimes.

And Bryan, Max, Simmo, and Webzcas. I finally realize how hard it is to take care of a forum and it's members. You guys do it much better than I would, don't you think?

Aussie Dave, get that dang guitar tuned, I am waiting to "hear" that silly song that you put in my head, going around and round! Turkey!

I had to make this post, since my Thanks button keeps disappearing!

Thanks, guys!

 

[Mavin1]

 

[AussieDave]

Regards the weekend thing - we generally respond to reported posts because they get emailed to us

Hi Simmo (all),

The reason I got so upset was...

1...My post(s) were deleted.

2...I got publically told to keep it on topic. When if in fact I had.

Truth of the matter WagerWitch could not let it go.

I returned to the Mary Davis thread and posted. All on topic.

Well stuff me if I didn't cope a smart mouth response from WagerWitch directly tied back to her derails and finger pointing.

Going around upsetting members, then when they bite report them

If WagerWitch reported my post and others due to her antagonising & that's why I received a warning & or others did too, and my post or other were delete, then sorry guys but that's just not fair or just.

I do agree with Rob that a weekend Mod is desperately needed here.



Cheers



Dave

 

[AussieDave]

Aussie Dave, get that dang guitar tuned, I am waiting to "hear" that silly song that you put in my head, going around and round! Turkey!

Sorry to disappoint you Jod but no Kumbaya from this little black duck. But if you ask really nicely I may give you hug...will that do?

 

[AussieDave]

- (pic) Any dog can bite try putting a little style into it

Mavin was it really necessary to post that pic and adding the rolleyes (sarcastic) given the thread topic. Me thinks not.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Simmo!]

whaaaaat, email it please..:notworthy
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14 meg - i think not

 

[jetset]

Regarding this question of a weekend monitor.

There may be costs for Bryan involved in such a hiring, and I believe it needs careful consideration.

The way I see it:

1) All this fuss was the work of a small minority among the posters here. Are we not over-reacting to a fairly isolated incident? This one really blew out of all proportion and went beyond mere ill-tempered sniping...but it is exceptional imo and issues rarely get as superheated as this one did.

2) There is a facility through which members can report truly offensive behaviour (rather than silly stuff) and in general that gets results, even over the weekend, when mods are presumably still checking their emails even if technically "off duty".

3) I return again to my hopefully not too boring central theme - we're all responsible adults fully capable of courtesy and discipline if we put our minds to it. We all have a pretty good idea of the parameters here...let's just try and adhere to them.

On balance, I do not believe a weekend minder for us all is necessary.

 

[AussieDave]

decided to PM instead

 

[felicie]

Mavin I'm glad we're friends, you've helped me & my whole family with your support and advice on certain issues so don't be a stranger. Nash I'll say I'm sorry if I mean it and I'm glad about that and please don't feel bad that I must put you on my 'grumpy' list. You're in great company ; jod you've made me mad as hell and cracked me up along with bb, WW and swampwitch very much the way my sister does so sisters we are like it or not but please let me be 'menopausal' without it making you feel degraded since its just a part of life and something I do really well; silc and skinny - who would have thought peeing one's pants could be so much fun and even worth an occasional sciatic blowout. Bless you both and could I get the name of that glue please. I'm sorry for leaving the rest of you out and please know that it's only due to my CRS (can't remember shit) syndrome for I cannot think of one member here that hasn't posted something of interest to me at one time or another so I thank you all. Goodnight.

 

[ksech]

Wow, two days of reading this read from start to finish...
First, let me say, I am a nobody here, not one of you knows me in REAL life, but I will tell you this... What/when I post, I mean/believe everything I say 100%.

This is not to be an "attack" on any member here, just my observations...

Wagerwitch, enough is enough. You are reiterating the same issues over and over and over again, until a poster cringes when they come to a post by you. I empathize and sympathize with what you are saying. On the other hand, go back and read ALL of your posts as if you were a newbie reading this for the first time. It's kind of scary.

Mavin1, I can empathize and sympathize with you also, but perhaps you need to reread your posts also?

This has turned into , JMHO, a cyberhategang. I respect the majority of the posters here (and yes, I do have my favorites, some who have been recently suspended here) BUT these "hate" threads have turned this forum into nothing more than a virtual National inquirer. THIS IS A GAMBLING FORUM, (or at least I thought it was), owned and managed by Bryan who parcels out management as he sees fit. I, personally think the mods and Bryan do a wonderful job, even under times of duress (such as happened of late).

If I had to pay membership dues to this forum I would seriously consider cancelling as the latest string of immature/namecalling/verbal attacking/repetitive bashing has taken over what I once considered a great place to visit to read and gain insightful information on one of my favorite pasttimes.

I sincerely hope Aussie Dave retracts his request for membership cancellation, he has tons of great advice, as do LaurieJim, bb28, jod5413, KasinoKing, Robwin, jetset, jasminebed, pinababy, chuchu, just play, chayton, VWM and (Oh Lordie I know I will forget someone) the list goes on and on.

heading back to my own little corner now...

 

[The Dude]

It's much easier to reply to these things after the smoke clears. There were only a few members who got out of line - for whatever reason, they let their emotions get the best of them. These things will happen - there is no getting around this.

That said, these bitch sessions will manifest on weekends, holidays, 3am my time. whatever. To hire someone just to babysit the forum is really unnecessary in my opinion. I could understand hiring people to monitor the site from hackers or DDoS attacks - well yeah, that's serious business (and it's in place), but to hire someone to chastise people when they tell each other to fuck off, well I don't see that warrants special treatment. But if this continues to be a trend - then we will post weekend hall monitors. That's not a problem.

I believe in freedom of expression, but you must take responsibility for what you say. If someone is going to spew garbage that violates our forum rules, well so be it - but we'll deal with it on our time.

One of the main oversights that caused a lot of grief amongst a number of you, was the deleting of threads with no apparent reason. That's understandably alarming. My apologies to all - like Simmo!, I had no idea that the comments were only visible to moderators and Fully Registered members. Registered users, Senior members, Meister members, Webmeisters, I-gaming reps, none of these members could see these comments. That's totally effed up, and for everyone here - I did a bunch of push-ups to pay for my major malfunction.

It's a shame really, because we've put in some pretty funny comments to some deleted spam. Now I know why no one was laughing at my jokes - you didn't see them.

As for the infraction system, it's there, but I haven't figured a way to implement this fully. I need to brainstorm it a bit more.

 

[RedAndi]

I wonder if she is the same woman that I used to work with.

Seriously.....I've always got along with my coworkers, can't say I liked everyone, but you gotta steer clear of those that you don't and just bite your tongue, anyway this woman that I worked with I could not escape her as we worked in the same way too small office. She was supposed to train me when I started there, she purposefully mislead me, undercut me at every chance and it wasn't just me, anyone new, she was the exact same way. She'd screw up and then blame it on someone else, (which I find is one of the most deplorable things you can do.) She loved to gossip and seemed to take pleasure in other's people's pain and suffering, she would actually smile when giving her gossip reports after lunch, the worse it was, the more she smiled. You could tell she was a very unhappy bitter person and there were times when I felt sorry for her, but she was so mean and underhanded that the pity soon wore very thin. I was jumping for joy when I got out of that small office and didn't have to be around her any more.

Schadenfreude (pronounced /ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/ Audio (US) (help·info), German pronunciation: [ˈʃaːdənˌfʁɔɪdə]) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This German word is used as a loanword in English and some other languages, and has been calqued in Danish and Norwegian as skadefryd and Swedish as Skadeglädje

That sounds like her! And I am sure everyone here knows (or may possibly BE ) one of these types.... I can't pronounce this (Bryan prolly can, lol) but whenever I run across one of these types this word is just a perfect fit.

Edit- Ok I CAN pronounce it now, I listened to the Wiki Audio

 

[jod5413]

AussieDave,

 

[AussieDave]

Schadenfreude (pronounced /ˈʃɑːdənfrɔɪdə/ Audio (US) (help·info), German pronunciation: [ˈʃaːdənˌfʁɔɪdə]) is pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.[1] This German word is used as a loanword in English and some other languages, and has been calqued in Danish and Norwegian as skadefryd and Swedish as Skadeglädje

From an Arts Degree never completed (majoring in psychology), I'd surmise a narcissistic personality disorder encapsulates parallel behavioral symptoms as you've touched above. Generalised characteristics include:

• Lack of empathy.
• Delusions of grandeur.
• Extremely heightened ego and self importance.
• High sensitivity levels to criticism or defeat.
• Consistent need for praise and admiration.

People with this disorder crave persistent admiration and attention.
Such a condition left undiagnosed & or untreated can be extremely debilitating. It can attribute to social dis-functionality.

Ironically alienating the sufferer further from the very stimuli (people) they seek to impress.


Cheers



Dave

 

[dominique]

Narcissistic personality disorder, and especially malignant narcissism, cannot really be treated since the individual is devoid of actual empathy and generally has learned to substitute by copying emotions of others in order to manipulate others. In therapy, these individuals will mimic whatever emotions seem appropriate for the situation. It's like the world is a puppet theater, and s/he is there to manipulate the puppets to behave in a way that pleases him/her and reaffirms their grandeur. Once a "puppet" fails to perform properly, it is discarded as "faulty".

In therapy, the individual enjoys the attention and the "game" of fooling the therapist. Not a good basis for making contact or progress.

Just a general remark about narcissism here, not relating it to anyone here.

 

[AussieDave]

In therapy, the individual enjoys the attention and the "game" of fooling the therapist. Not a good basis for making contact or progress.

Using a clinical based therapy model as your basis to refute treatment for narcissistic disorder(s) is generalised at best.

Edit: When dealing with disorders such as depression for example. The patient is first prescribed medication and monitored by his/her psychiatrist.

There is no benefit using a clinical based therapy, it can be counter productive if the patients disorder is not stabalised.

In laypersons terms...Any type of clinical based therapy model will fail if the patient is still in the grips of an untreated disorder.



Cheers



Dave

 

[Sassy1]

This is turning out to be an educational thread. I never really took the time to understand what narcissism is or means until you guys started talking about it. Now you have me googling!

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

We all have narcissism to one degree or another. The problem evolves when it is the dominant aspect of our relationships.

The narcissist operates from an image they hold of themselves in their head. They do not operate from the reality of feelings in their body. This does not mean they do not feel. It means their feelings are generated by what they believe about themselves and others in their head. They do not “test” these beliefs through “real” interactions with people. They live in their heads, not their bodies.

When the narcissist is confronted with a reality of who they are, and that differs from their mental picture, they discount the information. If the information persists or gets stronger they will rage at the information or the informer.

Because they are frozen inside, they have to cling to the image they hold. If you try to go in deeper, you will discover that there is no depth to the person. The narcissist knows that and will prevent you from going beneath the surface at all costs. Any penetration of the surface reveals the emptiness they experience from within.

Depending on the degree of narcissism, the person possesses increasing degrees of grandiosity, self-centeredness, disdain for others who don’t match up to their standards as well as feelings of omnipotence. In the extreme they see themselves as gods or goddesses who are above humanity. The degree to which one is narcissistic is the degree to which one does not accept their humanity.

 

[RedAndi]

It is also a trait found in a lot of serial killers.
Perfect fit- lack of empathy, seeing everyone else as "below them", think they are smarter (can fool the police), etc.

 

[AussieDave]

This is turning out to be an educational thread. I never really took the time to understand what narcissism is or means until you guys started talking about it. Now you have me googling!

I find this topic and those that develop from it very interesting. Maybe we could start a new thread...


Cheers



Dave

 

[just play]

I find this topic and those that develop from it very interesting. Maybe we could start a new thread...


Cheers



Dave

I also find it very interesting, since I suffer from a disorder, not narcissism though.

Any type of clinical based therapy model will fail if the patient is still in the grips of an untreated disorder

Absolutely agree.

 

[RedAndi]

I find this topic and those that develop from it very interesting. Maybe we could start a new thread...


Cheers



Dave

Lol, I had actually forgotten what the original thread was about!

 

[dominique]

Using a clinical based therapy model as your basis to refute treatment for narcissistic disorder(s) is generalised at best.

Edit: When dealing with disorders such as depression for example. The patient is first prescribed medication and monitored by his/her psychiatrist.

There is no benefit using a clinical based therapy, it can be counter productive if the patients disorder is not stabalised.

In laypersons terms...Any type of clinical based therapy model will fail if the patient is still in the grips of an untreated disorder.



Cheers



Dave

Yep. Trouble is that for malignant narcissism, there is no clinical treatment, or at least there wasn't 3 years ago when I had occasion to seriously research this particular disorder. I haven't stayed up to date with it...

Only way to deactivate the behavior (which tends to result in leaving a path of destruction behind) is to completely tranquilize the malignant narcissist. That is, however, never done because outwardly these folks are usually very functional and often hold positions of responsibility.

It is actually a much more frequent disorder than you might think, most people meet one at some point in their lives.

One theory is that this starts at a crucial point of development - when the baby starts differentiating between "I" and "you". The malignant narcissist never progresses beyond this point. The "you" never comes to exist. People are puppets who either serve to make the narcissist more grand and perfect, or they get discarded. If he perceives them to undermine his grandiosity, he may even opt to destroy them in whatever way suits him. Since there is no empathy, this can happen in any form, psychologically (systematical destruction of the other person's self esteem), materially (see that they lose jobs and belongings) or even physically.

There is a difference between malignant narcissism and plain narcissism - the malignant ones are to be stayed way far away from.

 

[Sassy1]

What you just described, Dominique, sounds a lot like what I've read about sociopaths, especially the part about people becoming puppets and seeking to destroy them. I have been dealing with a sociopath in my life and have been doing some reading. I wonder if sociopaths are often also narcissistic?

 

[RobWin]

What you just described, Dominique, sounds a lot like what I've read about sociopaths, especially the part about people becoming puppets and seeking to destroy them. I have been dealing with a sociopath in my life and have been doing some reading. I wonder if sociopaths are often also narcissistic?

George W. Bush was...
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[AussieDave]

Yep. Trouble is that for malignant narcissism, there is no clinical treatment, or at least there wasn't 3 years ago when I had occasion to seriously research this particular disorder. I haven't stayed up to date with it...

I gave a general synopsis of a narcissistic personality disorder. Which may or may not be evident in the person RedAndi described as being Schadenfreude.

Although I'm no expert in the field; least of all qualified, I did accomplish 3 years of a 4 year psych degree. Without sound offensive, it's a little bit more involved than conducting research on google.

Not saying the information for mental illness found on Google is bad. It's usually the first step taken by a friend or family member to seek symptoms, causes and treatment.

However sometime a little bit of information is dangerous.

Although I certainly believe Google is a great tool for these instances. If anyone believes a friend or family member is suffering from a undiagnosed mental illness, they should recommend the person seek help from their GP in a non confrontational manner.


Cheers



Dave

 

[Sassy1]

Although I certainly believe Google is a great tool for these instances. If anyone believes a friend or family member is suffering from a undiagnosed mental illness, they should recommend the person seek help from their GP in a non confrontational manner.

No offense intended, but I can't help but groan at that reply. No one that I know of with mental illness, and in particular, the sociopath I have been dealing with, would happily run off to see the GP after I mention their issues in a non-confrontational manner. They'd be denying and in attack mode (i.e. If the information persists or gets stronger they will rage at the information or the informer. If he perceives them to undermine his grandiosity, he may even opt to destroy them in whatever way suits him.

 

[dominique]

I'm a psych drop-out also.

I had reason to spend some 2 years researching malignant narcissists, very specifically and not just online.

So what I said above is pretty accurate, with the exception that I have not revisited the topic in 3 years. So I may be out of date as far as the possibility of treatment, a lot can happen in this field in 3 year's time.

Sassy, some Malignant Narcissists could be described as sociopaths, but not all of them. And vice versa, some Sociopaths can also be Malignant Narcissists.

Dave, I do agree that googling such things can bring some insight, but there are so many disorders and they are often ill defined and can also overlap, so one can come away with totally wrong diagnoses. And labeling an individual one way or another is a very serious thing and really should never be done on the basis of a google search.

Also, what I described is not general narcissism anymore, it's very specifically malignant narcissism. There are much milder cases that do not fall in this category.

And Sassy, yes confronting either a sociopath or a malignant narcissist is not a good idea. These are not your more benign disorders, you can get into serious trouble confronting them.

But the majority of disorders can be confronted gently and in a friendly way and can also be treated. For most people suffering from disorders knowledge is power.

However, for malignant Narcissists, knowledge can only come from themselves, anything others say is discounted, distorted and if it undermines the feeling of superiority, must be squashed. And sociopaths are much the same.

Anywho, we really went off on a tangent here and I am afraid I am at fault for derailing a thread into some peripheral discussion.

 

[skiny]

I used to see a psychiatrist... Turns out she was nuts.

 

[chayton]

A guy walks into a psychiatrist's office wearing nothing but saran wrap. The psychiatrist takes one look and says, "Well, I can clearly see you're nuts."

 

[skiny]

Here's the problem with censorship.

I'll tell you a little story.

I was out ***** around like I do every weekend when I saw this beautiful woman across the *****. She was sitting near the ***** with her two big *****.I thought I could probably talk to her if I could get around those *****. I have a nice big *****. That alone might spark up some conversation but it would probably best if I just started talking about her *****. I made my way over to the ***** and said "Nice *****. Can I pet one?" Well, we talked about her ***** longer than I really wanted to. What I really wanted to do was ***** her up the *****. It's really my favorite ***** to *****. It's so ***** up there it makes my eyes water. I asked her if she wanted to go for a little ride. She seemed hesitant. I'm sure my ***** was big enough for her and her *****. She said it sounded like fun. Even after we got started I couldn't believe I was ***** her. She was the prettiest girl I'd ***** in a long time. I guess I was in a bit of a hurry at first. I was ***** so fast it made her nervous and her ***** were almost out of control. She asked me to slow down. I guess in all the fuss she must have *****. She was half over the side of the ***** and soaked. Thank goodness her ***** were OK.She didn't seem as happy anymore either. I slowed down to a manageable pace and when I finally ***** ***** up ***** ***** she was relaxed again. It was like heaven. I put my ***** away and just kind of pet her ***** while we drifted. After a time I brought her back to the ***** where I picked her up. I never saw that girl again but ***** her up the ***** will always be one of my fondest memories.
















And now the rest of the story.

I was out canoing around like I do every weekend when I saw this beautiful woman across the river. She was sitting near the shore with her two big dogs.I thought I could probably talk to her if I could get around those dogs. I have a nice big canoe. That alone might spark up some conversation but it would probably best if I just started talking about her dogs. I made my way over to the shore and said "Nice dogs. Can I pet one?" Well, we talked about her dogs longer than I really wanted to. What I really wanted to do was take her up the river. It's really my favorite place to be. It's so beautiful up there it makes my eyes water. I asked her if she wanted to go for a little ride. She seemed hesitant. I'm sure my canoe was big enough for her and her dogs. She said it sounded like fun. Even after we got started I couldn't believe I was taking her. She was the prettiest girl I'd seen in a long time. I guess I was in a bit of a hurry at first. I was paddling so fast it made her nervous and her dogs were almost out of control. She asked me to slow down. I guess in all the fuss she must have slipped. She was half over the side of the canoe and soaked. Thank goodness her dogs were OK.She didn't seem as happy anymore either. I slowed down to a manageable pace and when I finally got her up the river she was relaxed again. It was like heaven. I put my paddles away and just kind of petted her dogs while we drifted. After a time I brought her back to the shore where I picked her up. I never saw that girl again but taking her up the river will always be one of my fondest memories.

 

[suzecat]

The version of your first story that was bouncing round in my head was kinda different than your second story .......... and I betcha you had lots more fun in my version!

 

[skiny]

The version of your first story that was bouncing round in my head was kinda different than your second story .......... and I betcha you had lots more fun in my version!

It was the same story!

 

[Mavin1]

Some of you are so full of crap with your magical psychology diploma's that it is unbelievable, what lengths you will go to in order to discredit a poster that is simply tired of your badgering and heel nipping. It's no wonder more posters here don't speak out against you.
Having said that, I have requested to have my account here closed, so go have your party now, for another job well done!!!!

 

[jetset]

Huh? What brought that on? This sure has been a strange few days...