Casino bonuses and pitfalls.

[paul7388]

Okay I just thought I would start a thread about bonuses at many casinos as some people will be surprised at exactly what is not allowed.

As was pointed out to me in a different thread when I said bonus details were in the t&cs that not all new players read them when they should so terms are unfair.

I just wondered if everyone knew just exactly how many terms there are that can deny players winning. This is not a dig against any casinos I just think it would be great if casinos could reply and actually say why some of these terms apply.

By now everyone will have read about the 6x max withdrawal on first deposit at several microgaming casinos. Not a fair term but its there. Most know also about max bets while on bonus and prohibited games that build up to a feature like scrooge, wishmaster etc.

Also most casinos have the rule where you cannot play progressives but not everyone knows that as proven on another thread today.

Get all that out of the way and you would think well I know all that I am good to go. Sorry no you are not lol.

Does everyone really know just how many games are actually banned whilst on bonuses. If you join a casino and take a bonus you think I know all the rules up there so I will play normal slots at 50p a spin and I am safe no way I can break a bonus term so why read them all again since I have read them before.

Because they change. Some games that break terms now will be a surprise to many. I have saw my favourite game fat lady sings banned at some casinos while on a bonus. Now who would believe it and how many people would play that slot therefore breaking terms.

Now I apoligise to this casino as I am no way taking a dig at them its just they have an example in their terms for a slot bonus and its easy to read and fully explained. But the games that are on it are a surprise to me and probably many more people.

5.The following games are excluded from this Slots Welcome Bonus; Mega Spin Slots, Cashapillar, Loaded, Sure Win, Wealth Spa, Scrooge, Santa's Wild Ride, Crocodopolis, Doctor Love, Ramesses Riches, Irish Eyes, Break Da Bank Again, Cashville, Isis, High 5, High Society, Supe It Up, Centre Court. Any winnings from these games while the Slots Welcome Bonus is in play will be forfeited together with the Bonus funds themselves


Now as you can see from that list there are popular slots which many people play and you would never think would be banned. Other casinos have similar lists with different games.

So point is no matter how well you know a casinos terms REGULARLY check them as lists like above have different games all the time and who would think playing centre court would void a welcome bonus.

Would be great if people knew why certain slots weren't allowed at different casinos.

Anyway this was not a rant or a complaint before I get pelters. Was just a heads up to everyone that all casinos even the best have certain terms that will be a surprise to many. Especially new players that have not got a great knowledge of online casinos and all the various terms.

 

[KasinoKing]

5.The following games are excluded from this Slots Welcome Bonus; Mega Spin Slots, Cashapillar, Loaded, Sure Win, Wealth Spa, Scrooge, Santa's Wild Ride, Crocodopolis, Doctor Love, Ramesses Riches, Irish Eyes, Break Da Bank Again, Cashville, Isis, High 5, High Society, Supe It Up, Centre Court. Any winnings from these games while the Slots Welcome Bonus is in play will be forfeited together with the Bonus funds themselves

Would be great if people knew why certain slots weren't allowed at different casinos.

Pains me to say it, but the only reason I can think of, is ignorance of the people making these rules

Let's face it, for most of them, working for a casino is just a job - many of them have probably never actually played the games themselves for real money or for any length of time.
I can only imagine that some of those games made the list purely because a lucky player or two hit a very big win or 3 on them and so the casino is scared that other players will do the same...?
OK, some ARE high variance, but Doctor Love & Cashville...? Come on!

KK

 

[Batman]

This depends , from casino to casino , from provider to provider ...
You are referring mostly at MG casinos;
What you said can be summarized in one sentence:
"READ THE FREAKING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE JOINING / TAKING A BONUS FROM ANY CASINO"

 

[paul7388]

I know KK its weird. That was actually terms from one of the leading casinos bonuses. Other casinos have similar lists.

Not criticising any casino its mainly just a warning that there are so many terms out now its unreal. So easy for any member especially new to a casino to break a rule as tho these terms are very clear and easy to find as has been explained not every one reads them.

But especially if you play at multiplatform sites. With all the new games added regularly it means lists like these change frequently. So just because someone has read terms when signing up it doesn't mean that 6 months later a game they play will not have been added to a list like that.

 

[spintee]

I can certainly understand why some games are on the list but others? I would love to know the real reason, I can only guess why,

I have come across some silly rules in my time, Some casino's are clearer to understand than others, Some are so well hidden its like trying to break the Enigma code, But to be fair on a casino the rules are there & they do stress to always read rules, Normally after the fact somebody has messed up,

 

[paul7388]

This depends , from casino to casino , from provider to provider ...
You are referring mostly at MG casinos;
What you said can be summarized in one sentence:
"READ THE FREAKING TERMS AND CONDITIONS BEFORE JOINING / TAKING A BONUS FROM ANY CASINO"

Batman I could not agree more. But it was pointed out to me that not everyone does that. And as many casinos have these terms in their general bonus terms if someone does not read them all they will not see them.

This was an example just to show why everyone SHOULD read every single bit of a casinos terms.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Pains me to say it, but the only reason I can think of, is ignorance of the people making these rules

Let's face it, for most of them, working for a casino is just a job - many of them have probably never actually played the games themselves for real money or for any length of time.
I can only imagine that some of those games made the list purely because a lucky player or two hit a very big win or 3 on them and so the casino is scared that other players will do the same...?
OK, some ARE high variance, but Doctor Love & Cashville...? Come on!

KK

I can imagine pieces of paper with the names of slots written on them pinned to the wall and a set of darts. During the coffee break the marketing team have a bit of a mess around, each has one go to throw 3 darts, and each slot they hit gets added to the banned list. Their aim is off, as they may have hit Dr Love, but they completely missed Tomb Raider II

The other problem is that even when a player reads the terms, they have to constantly remember a list of random games that they have to avoid playing because there is nothing in the software to prompt them, nor any common ground for using common sense to judge whether a particular slot ought to be banned or not.

I am sure that if someone gets a decent shitstorm with a bonus, they will add Thunderstruck II to the list. If they follow this philosophy, they will end up banning all the slots they have as all can produce big wins in the long run, even Dr Love.

 

[Batman]

I can imagine pieces of paper with the names of slots written on them pinned to the wall and a set of darts. During the coffee break the marketing team have a bit of a mess around, each has one go to throw 3 darts, and each slot they hit gets added to the banned list. Their aim is off, as they may have hit Dr Love, but they completely missed Tomb Raider II

That made my day!


This post regarding the terms and conditions also reminds me of the "HUMANCENTiPAD" episode from South Park...
Everyone should read the T&C before doing anything via an online environment nowadays.

Also, regarding the games, when I join a new casino, I only have a few slots / videopoker / blackjack games that I usually play, so I keep my eyes open for those alone in the terms...

 

[brianmon]

I'd also like to know, how they arrive at a figure, when the WR contribution is reduced for a particular game.

DOA is listed as 20% contribution at some sites, 50% at some, 75% at some and 100% at others.
Do the casino management calculate this figure somehow, or just chose a random amount?

There's one particular EveryMatrix site which has DOA=100%, Reel steel=75% and Frankenstein=50%!!! where's the logic in that

 

[Batman]

I'd also like to know, how they arrive at a figure, when the WR contribution is reduced for a particular game.

DOA is listed as 20% contribution at some sites, 50% at some, 75% at some and 100% at others.
Do the casino management calculate this figure somehow, or just chose a random amount?

There's one particular EveryMatrix site which has DOA=100%, Reel steel=75% and Frankenstein=50%!!! where's the logic in that

It probably depends on the variance of the slot, on the min/max amount you can win from that slot with a min / max bet...

 

[brianmon]

It probably depends on the variance of the slot, on the min/max amount you can win from that slot with a min / max bet...

So why the different contribution percentage at different sites for the same game in the case of DOA?

And why does that one particular site have
a (potentially) very high-paying/high variance/high hit frequency game as 100% contibution,
a (potentially) high paying/high variance/low hit frequency game at 75% and
a low-paying/medium variance/med hit frequency game at 50%

logically it should be the other way around

 

[Batman]

So why the different contribution percentage at different sites for the same game in the case of DOA?

And why does that one particular site have
a (potentially) very high-paying/high variance/high hit frequency game as 100% contibution,
a (potentially) high paying/high variance/low hit frequency game at 75% and
a low-paying/medium variance/med hit frequency game at 50%

logically it should be the other way around

Well, this is a simple one:
Low variance means you're gonna grind the WR, and in order to prevent that, they applied this term.

Or maybe they're just throwing darts at a list of slots how Vinyl said )

One thing is certain: Casino managers aren't under any circumstances "Stupid"...
So if you find a few slots with various contributions, they must have a really good reason for it.
Of course:
- No one is going to ask them for the reason.
- They're not obligated to answer these questions.
- If they'll answer, you'll never get a straightforward answer or the exact reason.

 

[brianmon]

Well, this is a simple one:
Low variance means you're gonna grind the WR, and in order to prevent that, they applied this term.

Or maybe they're just throwing darts at a list of slots how Vinyl said )

One thing is certain: Casino managers aren't under any circumstances "Stupid"...
So if you find a few slots with various contributions, they must have a really good reason for it.
Of course:
- No one is going to ask them for the reason.
- They're not obligated to answer these questions.
- If they'll answer, you'll never get a straightforward answer or the exact reason.

I think you're missing my point.

I'm not particularly talking about why they chose to make a game contribute less to the WR.

I'm talking more about the inconsistency between casinos as to which games are 'high risk' and which aren't and the difference in the WR contribution that each casino applies to those games.

If every casino manager has sat down and actually calculated the risk for those exempt games, or those which carry a lower contribution to the WR.
wouldn't they all have arrived at the same contribution figure or the same list of exempt games?

how can one game be such a high risk it only contributes 20%, yet the EXACT same game at another casino contributes 50% and at another casino it poses no risk and contributes 100%?

 

[Ahthat1]

stung by a bonus

After getting stung by a bonus being applied to my account whilst I was playing and winning BIG (how the hell do you notice $20 bonus??) so they wouldnt pay the $8000 I won, i vowed never to take another bonus and when starting with a new casino I always get them to remove the sign up bonus and take me off any kind of bonus. its not worth it, too many dickie rules and regs.

Today I received an email from Golden Tiger Casino saying i have won 1500 euro at their casino, my email being pulled out of a hat i guess. I dont remember joining their Casino. Has anyone come across this before? is it spam, etc, keep away kind of thing??

cheers

 

[vinylweatherman]

I'd also like to know, how they arrive at a figure, when the WR contribution is reduced for a particular game.
DOA is listed as 20% contribution at some sites, 50% at some, 75% at some and 100% at others.
Do the casino management calculate this figure somehow, or just chose a random amount?

There's one particular EveryMatrix site which has DOA=100%, Reel steel=75% and Frankenstein=50%!!! where's the logic in that

Dice

 

[KasinoKing]

After getting stung by a bonus being applied to my account whilst I was playing and winning BIG (how the hell do you notice $20 bonus??) so they wouldnt pay the $8000 I won, i vowed never to take another bonus and when starting with a new casino I always get them to remove the sign up bonus and take me off any kind of bonus. its not worth it, too many dickie rules and regs.

Today I received an email from Golden Tiger Casino saying i have won 1500 euro at their casino, my email being pulled out of a hat i guess. I dont remember joining their Casino. Has anyone come across this before? is it spam, etc, keep away kind of thing??

cheers

In your first case: Was that recent? And was it at a CasinoMeister Accredited casino?
If "yes" to both, you could consider a Pitch-A-Bitch since "sneaking" bonuses into a players account which impose terms the player was not aware of goes against the standards for accreditation.

And second: yes that is SPAM - most likely from some rogue affiliate
The $1,500 is the standard "free play for 1 hour" all new players can get at that casino. It's actually a pretty decent promo - but please don't sign-up via any spammer's links, as that only encourages them to do more...
Casino Rewards do get accused of spamming themselves, but you should only get promotional e-mails from them if you have already joined one of their 31 casinos...

KK

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well, this is a simple one:
Low variance means you're gonna grind the WR, and in order to prevent that, they applied this term.

Or maybe they're just throwing darts at a list of slots how Vinyl said )

One thing is certain: Casino managers aren't under any circumstances "Stupid"...
So if you find a few slots with various contributions, they must have a really good reason for it.
Of course:
- No one is going to ask them for the reason.
- They're not obligated to answer these questions.
- If they'll answer, you'll never get a straightforward answer or the exact reason.

It's clearly not "really good" because of the high levels of inconsistency between sites. If the reasoning was based on sound mathematical principles related to the nature of the games, there would be consistency between the different sites, even if the actual numbers varied slightly.

Apart from darts and dice, I suspect that in most cases the "reasoning" is nothing more than them seeing a player hit one of the top combos on a game, and then seeing that as evidence that the game "can be beaten by an advantage player". It's really an illusion though, the odds of hitting the "big one" are the same regardless of what has been hit in the past. If anything, the games they have NOT banned because none of their players have drawn attention to it by hitting the top combo are even MORE of a risk to them because the potential may be even greater for them to be beaten.

Had an objective means been used though, they would have been able to assess the relative risks of all the games before a player shows it to them by winning. This would probably lead to a shorter, but more accurate, list of banned games and lower weighted games.

Given that games can be weighted to as little as 1% of contribution towards WR, there should be no need to ban slots due to variance and high RTP at all.

 

[hedgehok]

I think you're missing my point.

I'm not particularly talking about why they chose to make a game contribute less to the WR.

I'm talking more about the inconsistency between casinos as to which games are 'high risk' and which aren't and the difference in the WR contribution that each casino applies to those games.

If every casino manager has sat down and actually calculated the risk for those exempt games, or those which carry a lower contribution to the WR.
wouldn't they all have arrived at the same contribution figure or the same list of exempt games?

how can one game be such a high risk it only contributes 20%, yet the EXACT same game at another casino contributes 50% and at another casino it poses no risk and contributes 100%?

There's an old useful thread about a couple of questions which have been discussed here. Specially Enzo's reply (3dice):
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/what-casinos-usually-mean-when-they-say.48288/

Basically: There is no consistancy between the casinos. It's just that managers are only people and not every human in the world is maths-savvy - let alone probability calculations and statistics.

In my book the most reasonable bonus-terms are made by betat/slottyvegas considering RTP/variance of the games:

50%: Blood Suckers™, Crocodopolis, Dead or Alive™, Fat Lady Sings, Galacticons, Gift Rap, Hellboy, Hot Hot Volcano, Hot Ink, Irish Eyes, Jack Hammer 2 Touch, Jack Hammer 2™, Jack Hammer Touch, Jack Hammer™, Mad Mad Monkey, Medusa, Ramesses Riches, Retro Reels - Extreme Heat, Scrooge, Simsalabim™, Zombies™

All of these games have:
a) TRTP>97% (restricted due to RTP)
OR
b) the possibility to set less then maximum-paylines (restricted due to variance)

The only way to not lose track when you play at multiple casinos is using a spreadsheet and looking at the terms regularly.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There's an old useful thread about a couple of questions which have been discussed here. Specially Enzo's reply (3dice):
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/what-casinos-usually-mean-when-they-say.48288/

Basically: There is no consistancy between the casinos. It's just that managers are only people and not every human in the world is maths-savvy - let alone probability calculations and statistics.

In my book the most reasonable bonus-terms are made by betat/slottyvegas considering RTP/variance of the games:

50%: Blood Suckers™, Crocodopolis, Dead or Alive™, Fat Lady Sings, Galacticons, Gift Rap, Hellboy, Hot Hot Volcano, Hot Ink, Irish Eyes, Jack Hammer 2 Touch, Jack Hammer 2™, Jack Hammer Touch, Jack Hammer™, Mad Mad Monkey, Medusa, Ramesses Riches, Retro Reels - Extreme Heat, Scrooge, Simsalabim™, Zombies™

All of these games have:
a) TRTP>97% (restricted due to RTP)
OR
b) the possibility to set less then maximum-paylines (restricted due to variance)

The only way to not lose track when you play at multiple casinos is using a spreadsheet and looking at the terms regularly.

It still isn't right though. They should take the rough with the smooth, just like they expect players to. There may be some games with high RTP, but equally there are some with lower than average RTP. It should all balance out in the end.

We also have had numerous reps claiming that "players don't understand RTP" and "it would confuse players if we were to give the RTP of our games". Well, unless they were LYING for all these years, what REALLY "confuses players" are these weird terms that illogically split slots into different weighting classes. For players who are "confused about RTP", they just see a load of slots, all just as good at sucking up their money and occasionally giving some back.

Funny how all of a sudden players "really understand the concepts of RTP and variance", and so these daft looking terms are necessary.


I do recall that all the earlier "lies" about the skills of players were contained within explanations of why casinos didn't publish the RTP of their games, which they have now been forced into doing by the UKGC. This of course works at the software level, so the figures are not just available to UK players, but to any player of a software that is available for UK players.

 

[Ahthat1]

yep

Yes it was with Slots magic. I talked to numerous people on their live chat/email and I got screwed and nothing i could do about it. I got the $20 bonus and I was playing $15 per spin, so too high for bonus i never knew i had. what happened was that i put the wrong bonus code and when i finished depositing i knew i didnt receive anything, started playing and supposedly received $20 bonus (i still dont believe it) whilst playing.

I stopped playing there and now i believe australians cant play there anymore along with MegaSpin. Very expensive lesson, NEVER TAKE A BONUS.

In your first case: Was that recent? And was it at a CasinoMeister Accredited casino?
If "yes" to both, you could consider a Pitch-A-Bitch since "sneaking" bonuses into a players account which impose terms the player was not aware of goes against the standards for accreditation.

And second: yes that is SPAM - most likely from some rogue affiliate
The $1,500 is the standard "free play for 1 hour" all new players can get at that casino. It's actually a pretty decent promo - but please don't sign-up via any spammer's links, as that only encourages them to do more...
Casino Rewards do get accused of spamming themselves, but you should only get promotional e-mails from them if you have already joined one of their 31 casinos...

KK

 

[goatwack]

I remember the good old days of when casinos gave you a bonus and all slot games contributed 100%, say about 3-4 years ago. It was a glorious time.

Then a few establishments became wiseguys and excluded DOA and Bloodsuckers from this list.

Now it seems that every casino just makes up the rules as they go along in regards to WR, damn even well respected and trusted establishments make me trawl through their updated terms! So there's a lesson in there for us all!!

Mind you, nowadays I keep a copy of 'The Nine Chapters on the Mathematical Art' handy when taking a bonus