Carib Sunshine Casino

[karto]

I have $600 at this casino and now their site is nowhere to be found. Does anybody know what's their fate?
I have tried contacting chartwell since it was their software but they haven't answered me yet.
When I deposited I had the belief that chartwell was ok.
Anyone have a comment on that?

 

[jyde]

Another incident of a vanished Chartwell-casino. Last time it was Six Gun.

 

[jetset]

Yeah, and then they popped up as a portal with a hotmail address for the manager and two non-working Casino Solei sites on it. Bastards. J. Lymenstone if you see this pay your damned Six Gun players.

I would have to say that Chartwell has a checkered history - on the one hand they had a lot of *little* operations some of which went down but on the other they have clinched a couple good deals with land-based companies who one would expect do their DD pretty thoroughly.

I would stay on their butts.

Have you done a Who Is on the casino?

 

[jyde]

Results:
Registrant:
Longyield Corp Ltd,
Marina Towers, Suite 401
Belize City, Belize none
BZ

Domain name: CARIBSUNSHINE-CASINO.COM

Administrative Contact:
Sylvester, Michael [email protected]
3416 W. Wall
Midland, Texas 79701
US
+915.6973291 Fax: +915.6979754

Technical Contact:
Sylvester, Michael [email protected]
3416 W. Wall
Midland, Texas 79701
US
+915.6973291 Fax: +915.6979754






Registrar of Record: TUCOWS, INC.
Record last updated on 12-Sep-2002.
Record expires on 07-Jun-2004.
Record Created on 07-Jun-2002.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.NEREX.COM 212.187.248.1
DNS2.NEREX.COM 212.187.248.2

 

[The Dude]

Whoo hoo! An expensive yahoo email account. What class!

 

[jetset]

There you go, karto - courtesy of Jyde another avenue for you to try.

Keep us posted here...we would like to see how helpful Chartwell Tech is in view of their apparent lack of concern over those bastards at Six Gun Casino, and they must have full details on the Carib Sun folks who have screwed you.

 

[karto]

Thanks for the comments guys.

See if he has anything to say and if Chartwell wants to answer me.

 

[karto]

Well at least Michael Sylvester can use the reply button.

It seems he is an attorney and says he is not involved in the casino. (This should be true since I have found the attorney office homepage, and even a picture of Michael).

"Our offices were corporate counsel for Carib Sunshine
during it's formation. That is the reason we were
listed as an administrative contact. However, our
work for that client wrapped up in the fall of last
year. Our offices has been out of the loop, so to
speak, since November of last year."

I have asked him again if he has any data on the casino.

By the way, how or where is a Who Is done?

 

[karto]

As I expected he wasn't willing to give me any data.

Oooohhhhhh Chaaaaaaaartweeeeeeeell, where is that reply-button.

 

[jetset]

A lawyer with email who uses yahoo for a casino registration - very professional and impressive!

Looks like Chartwell is your best if not only remaining bet now - mention to them that players are unpaid at Six Gun and the owners for that one have hidden themselves away in hotmail-land. Please keep us posted here as this is building up to a nice little story.

Chartwell is a listed stock exchange company I think, so that may be a useful pressure point if this gets nastier.

Try using Google to get some info on Chartwell that will assist your contact efforts - perhaps the name of their head man (which escapes me at the moment)and their public company status in Canada.

 

[karto]

Well, I know they are listed on the CDNX (Canadian Stock X), and as I understand it some of their license-holders are quite big and will probably only do business with reputable companies, so they are probably not very interested in bad publicity.
That could prove favorable.
But of course with this so far tiny reaction from no one else but me it could also just be to insignificant.

I haven't mentioned Six Gun in my first mails but will as soon as they reply to me.

What about IGC (Internet Gaming Council)?
Could they be useful?

 

[jetset]

Interactive Gaming Council has an online complaints facility. They don't have a good record of assisting players, but it can't hurt!

 

[jetset]

Here's a few names:

David Bajwa, Investor Relations
(877) 669-4180 or (604) 669-4180
[email protected]

Darcy Krogh, Vice President of Business Development.

Darold H. Parken, President and CEO of Chartwell.

They are based in Calgary, Canada and these are their head office contact numbers:

Tel: 403 261 6619
Fax:403 237 5816
Toll free from USA: 877 261 6619
[email protected]

Sales office is in Vancouver:
877 669 4180

Contacting Us
Our support team is always ready to help with your questions, suggestions and concerns. Please include your name and user name when contacting our support team so we can access your game play information quickly.

Email: [email protected]
Telephone: 1-877-261-6619

They also have online contact fields.

 

[karto]

Yes I have already mailed the support@ (no response) info@ (didn't work).

But then I found Darolds mail and has now mailed him instead since nothing happened.

 

[karto]

I could of course have called, but I live in europe so it would have been a bit costly.

 

[The Dude]

Hi Karto,

Gie me a heads up when you want me to step in.

 

[karto]

Admin:

That's really nice to hear.

Let's wait and see what Chartwells reply is, and if it isn't positive I would really love your help.
(if they do reply???)

 

[jetset]

If (when?) Chartwell do reply as a responsible company should, then I think they owe you either a lead to track down the casino operator that screwed you or to assume the obligation themselves That is the minimum required to show commitment. If they refuse to provide such assistance, they could also use their good offices to pressure the casino owner into doing the right thing here.

You might also ask them for details of the licensing jurisdiction for CaribSunshine, and bear in mind that they may also have a cosy relationship with the e-cash processor that was used and that that company is probably still holding a deposit.

They must realise that their reputation is also involved here if this dispute escalates into real publicity, and that like it or not they do have a responsibility to the consumer (player).

 

[jetset]

PS. Bear in mind too that Chartwell has made much of its strategy to attract land-based casino operators to its turnkey casino product - its reputation is important in that arena.

 

[karto]

Thanks for the advice.

I really don't know if they want to answer. Now he's had almost 2 days to respond.

And I'm not sure but I think the casino is licensed in Belize.

In Jyde's Who Is the registrant address is from Belize and the attorney company had an office or something in Belize.

I have previously tried to mail some semi-authorities in Belize handling gambling licenses and asked if there was a caribsunshine. (No reply)
I also found a website that still promotes caribsunshine and asked if he had any contact or details on them. (no reply)

Based on the Belize connection I have tried some loose searchings:

I found a company residing on the same registrant belize address: (Commercial Equities Finance LTD). Of course doesn't have to have something to do with the casino. (Have done a search on them and found nothing)

Then I have searched on Longyield (haha sarcastic huh):

Google finds the site: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Which apparently doesn't exist anymore because when I click it I'm directed to casinowebcam.

But in the text in google it says:
"... to Account Number 574062578741 of Provident play poker Bank & Trust of Belize Ltd
For firther credit to Account Number 701480 of Longyield Corporation Limited ..."

So maybe longyield have (had) those account numbers in the Belizean bank: Provident Bank & Trust of Belize

A lot of details but no breakthrough. Well maybe apart from the "bank accounts". But I really don't know if they can be of any help?

But in the end I would also think the best shot is chartwell's reputation.

 

[spearmaster]

What reputation? They have none...

Chartwell has traditionally been very silent to incoming email inquiries unless you are going to buy one of their products. I do not hold them in very high esteem.

 

[jetset]

Keep plugging away at this, Karto - persistence works. I have been working with another player on a totally different issue and his tenacity finally produced results.

Chartwell will be at the upcoming GIGSE exhibition in Montreal next week. I am going to be there, and one of the things on my "to do" list is to visit with Chartwell and find out what the hell is wrong with them.

 

[spearmaster]

Don't get me wrong, some of them are very friendly LOL - at least those that I met. But I still cannot support Java software and a company that does not respond to inquiries.

 

[karto]

Not even a single reply. I can't understand why they haven't even bothered to reply no matter what they had to say. That's really lousy.

So I have now sent them a final mail stating that I will have to take other actions if they do not reply.

 

[jetset]

They have just issued another press rerlease with the following detail for the head honcho Darold Parken at the foot of it:

Darold H Parken, 877/261-6619 or 403/261-6619
Email: [email protected]
or
Investor Relations:
David Bajwa, 877/669-4180 or 604/669-4180
Email: [email protected]
Website:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I guess they will all be in Montreal at GIGSE which starts next Tuesday - probably flying down there from Calgary in Canada right after the weekend.

Ignoring your emails is yet another indication of not only poor business conduct but a lack of professional courtesy to boot. It doesn't reflect well on this company which is about to launch a new site for an Irish bookie called Supremeoddscasino.com.

 

[The Dude]

I'll be addressing these issues during my presentation at the Affcon, and I'll be paying Chartwell a visit during the GIGSE.

I've also mentioned this on this week's webcast.

 

[jetset]

There'll be a posse riding out for Chartwell corral!

 

[karto]

No reply.

Give them a big whack from me.

:axeman2:

 

[karto]

Wow, the most amazing thing happened.

Chartwell replied. Yippiie, or not...

Here's what they say:

"Dear Martin

We are in receipt of your email and would like to clarify our position as the software supplier to Caribe Sunshine Casino. Unlike many other software suppliers Chartwell Technology is strictly a software development company and only license the use our products for a variety of online applications. We do not participate in any aspect of the daily operations of our customers business, which includes hosting, customer support, database and money management.

Caribe Sunshine entered into a licensing agreement with Chartwell to use a copy of our software with the intent to operate an online casino. Chartwell's responsibility and obligation to Caribe Sunshine is to support them technically. 100% of their daily operation is the responsibility of Caribe Sunshine. It is unfortunate that their business was not successful and they decided to close their online operation.

In closing, we would like to express our understanding with your frustrations with Caribe Sunshine and will attempt to pass on your email to the contact information we have on file. We cannot make any assurances beyond that with respect to a response or explanation, it is strictly the customers responsibility.

Regards,

Chartwell Information Services"

Wow, thanks. Will you really send my email to someone. That's great news. More spam mail, yeah baby.

 

[jetset]

Wre looking forward to reminding the Chartwell people here in Montreal that they have given an undertaking to contact the failed casino owner on your behalf - and they can expect some coverage on their hopelessly out of date policy regarding failed casinos!

How any serious operator can pick a half-assed outfit like this to power a casino mystifies me.

 

[The Dude]

I'll be speaking to them as well, informing them that I can never endorse or recommend any of their casinos until they modify this policy.

I am a firm believer that the software provider has an obligation to the player if their licensees go down the tubes.

 

[The Dude]

By the way Karto,

Was this $600 a deposit? winnings? how was this broken down?

I'll let Chartwell know that they owe you $600.

 

[The Dude]

Well this software provider just blew their own foot off with a high powered "stupid" gun.

Sheesh!

If anyone here has a player account at any Chartwell powered casino, I would recommend cashing in those chips as soon as possible. Players, protect yourselves!

 

[glodge]

Just as a side issue hypothetical here, given the fact that our shared views that the software provider must be resposible, in such cases as above.

What are people's feeling towards affiliates & their responsibility; or is that lack of, towards knowingly promoting dodgy casino's?

 

[The Dude]

I'm glad you brought this up, and maybe this should be moved to a new thread.

I'll be speaking at the Affcon tomorrow and this is going to be one of my main topics.

 

[glodge]

Only trying to make this a fair playing field for all ( that's players, casino's & affiliates )

How's montreal ?

 

[The Dude]

And the affiliates and responsibilty issues can be dealt with here.

Montreal? so far, so good!

 

[jetset]

Bryan and I were discussing this very issue just this morning, and my view is that the affiliate marketing system in this industry being what it is, the affiliate who refers a player to a dud casino where he gets burnt has to take some responsibility - probably expressed by helping the player to resolve the issue.

It seems wrong to me that an affiliate can stand between the casino and the player as it were, profit from the relationship and yet simply shrug off any problems.

There is of course the practical damage of an affiliate that repeatedly sends people to the same bad casino and then pays a price of sorts by losing cred and acquiring a weak professional reputation, but I think that like software providers they cannot simply turn their back on a player they have referred who gets ripped off.

 

[glodge]

I agree with you Jetset, regarding your views, however how does one clean up this mindset if you will, regarding affiliates who don't give a toss who they promote as long as there is a buck in it for them?

 

[jigga]

I could be wrong, but I did a bit of research of the various gaming roviders at some point. And i did not go into Chartwell thoroughly, but after looking into it briefly, i came out with the impression that they in fact were solely involved with gaming software while the ongoing "hands-on" aspect of the casino were left to be integrated through other service providers ie customer support, payment processing. Whereas, when i look at microgamming and cryptologic, one knows that they provide all aspects of a gaming sites necessary services. that being the case, they would HAVE TO BE more involved when one of their licensees goes down. I'm not so sure i can objectively say the same for Chartwell. But like i said, i never looked into it thoroughly, so i could be wrong.

Any feedback.

 

[jetset]

The software provider is inextricably linked to the system here - they get royalties in many cases, but more importantly there has to be some accountability for the probity checks on their licensees and their policing responsibilities in a risky arena that is not formally regulated.

Software providers have the wherewithal to impose good practice where this is lacking, and it is in their interests to do so, because the modern player communicates with others of his or her kind far more effectively through responsible message boards and are thus capable of avoiding casinos that have no interest in their welfare and gambling safety.

The big guns have shown the way by putting in place mechanisms to safeguard players in the event of casino failure and the new eCOGRA will I believe be proposing to members that they join this sort of initiative.

That will put pressure on the more irresponsible elements in the industry who try to take the none of our concern approach, because if eCOGRA takes off in an already tightening market, its seal will be a valuable guide to players that the operation displaying it is cognisant of the need for a saftey net on failing casinos amongst other safeguards.

Now more than ever suppliers need to be conscious of the real value of the consumer and the need to look after his or her interests in a professional and responsible manner.

 

[jpm]

eCOGRA?? Please explain what this is, first I've heard of it.

 

[glodge]

eCOGRA

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

 

[jpm]

Thanks glodge! For those others who were wondering:

The largest gambling software provider, Microgaming, and the largest online casino, Casino-on-net, today have joined forces in founding the eCOGRA. The E-commerce and Online Gaming Regulation and Assurance (eCOGRA) is a new online gambling watchdog that aims to provide online gamblers with "high levels of assurance of fair, honest, and responsible gaming."

The eCOGRA will issue a seal of approval to all online casinos that pass it's rigid and independent audit, including checks for consumer privacy and data protection, and ongoing reviews of all financial and gaming transactions.

The eCOGRA will have six directors: Andrew Beveridge, CEO of the new organization, a representative of Microgaming, a representative of Virtual Holdings Ltd (Casino-on-net), and three independent directors who will have voting control over board decisions to guarantee eCOGRA's autonomy from software providers and operators.

 

[jyde]

[color=ff0000]I hacked my way into Jetsets labtop and found this report from Montreal:[/color]

"Quick report from Montreal and specifically the discussions held on behalf of players with Chartwell (VP Dave Acorn) and RTG (Marketing Managers Eddy Kleid and Tom Brierley) both of which were visited on their GIGSE exhibition stands.

Chartwell, I was told was ripped off too by the failed Carib Sunshine casino and they are themselves trying to recover the owners who were apparently lawyers(!!!) Acorn said that the company was cognisant of the danger of damage to reputation caused by failing casinos and told me that as a consequence they had significantly tightened their acceptance procedures for potential licensees and were aiming to get more European oriented land-based owners as the preferred clientele.

They will not, however reverse their policy of staying hands off in the event of player-casino hassles. So that one was not what one would call an encouraging conclusion, and they will have to live with the consequences of stubbornly hewing to an outdated policy unpopular with the consumers.. IMO this sort of posture does not auger well for them in this market.

I also took the opportunity to urge them to more closely monitor leading MBs like this one and to respond promptly to emails sent to them.

Real Time Gaming was a pretty similar story. They claim they are tightening up on licensee applicants and existing operators and that they are paying more attention to the message boards and to complaints emailed to them following a lack of resolution at casino level. They claim that delays are not always their fault but sometimes the licensee is slow.

Before some of the older hands here say weve heard that before, yes we have and I made that point. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in the eating where the absolute evidence of improvement will be in far less complaints. Interestingly, I was told that where RTG could not get a licensee to redress a genuine client problem, they referred the complainant to Gambling Grumbles. Eddy K assured me he is receptive to emails about bad situations and if that proves to be the case in the future we will have made some progress there - time will tell.

Bottom line is that players have their own way of indicating displeasure with policies or events, and it is a foolish service supplier who disregards that.

Other than that the Isle of Man delegation were somehat chastened and admitted they had made some mistakes buit were sincere in wanting to get things back on track and welcomed any input. They will have player complaint facilities for their licensees. Alderney likewise.

More later - Im on my way to a briefing on eCOGRA where I hope they are going to be player sensitive."

 

[karto]

Karto is on hospital. So I, (Kargos mother) replies,
he deposited 250 and won 350 equalling 600.

 

[jigga]

jyde - any idea what the isle of mann reps meant when they said they made some mistakes...?

Just curious.

 

[jetset]

There was a lot of talk of too much bureaucracy and inflexibility and as a new service that is never good news, although there obviously has to be compliance with agreed standards. There were rumblings about this from a couple of the licensees there (who have sinve moved on) a couple of months ago or more. The IOM team emphasised that they had learned a lot and were very open to suggestions in improving their jurisdictional ambitions.

BWT the closing session at GIGSE was really interesting as Ladbrokes, Sportingbet and Victor Chandler top managersw debated cross-border business and regulation. The odd man out was a Danish government guy who was pleading the cause of sovreignty against the free-wheeling and fast moving nature if the internet. The real mnotives of various government monopolies that have taken international betting companies to court and the implications of the Treaty of Rome in the European context led to some heated discussion.

It was very interesting, and it seemed to me that at least in this area these big gambling rivals support one another and the fundamental freedoms of the Internet.

 

[karto]

This is ridiculous. If debts are only $2000 where is the problem???

Is that amount to overwhelming to pay?

 

[jyde]

Jetset - the danish taxguy - was it Peter Loft?

Governments don't gambling - as long as it's taxed.