Card counting in black jack

[bakonlin]

I many times read from the players that if we play blackjack,we still have the chance to win.To win in blackjack we must use card counting.
But is this system work in on line?As usually we are the only player,no other,so little amount of cards to be dealt,so many cards still in the shoe box,we donot know when the casino will change the card?
I had tried several times black jack in on line,many times I held on19 or 20,whilst the first card of the dealer 4,5,or 6,became 21 in the end.
Any suggestion or comment?

 

[mojo]

I just watched that movie '21' last night. It's the true story of the gifted students from MIT that went to vegas every weekend and counted cards. They made a killing.

I won't spoil the ending but it's not pretty.

Not sure how that relates to online but thought I'd share.

 

[EasyRhino]

It does not relate at all online.

Virtually all online casinos reshuffle AFTER EVERY HAND. So there's nothing to "count" to adjust your bets from hand to hand, since you have to reset the count every time.

It's theoretically possible for places that use live dealers dealing a roughly standard game, but these games generally shuffle very very early to negate counters.

So at best you can practice your basic strategy to play at a small disadvantage. But it's still a disadvantage, on every hand.

 

[bakonlin]

Bacarat counting card

Thanks Easy Rhino.Can you be more specific with 'small disadvantage'?

 

[elscrabinda]

It does not relate at all online.

Virtually all online casinos reshuffle AFTER EVERY HAND. So there's nothing to "count" to adjust your bets from hand to hand, since you have to reset the count every time.

It's theoretically possible for places that use live dealers dealing a roughly standard game, but these games generally shuffle very very early to negate counters.

So at best you can practice your basic strategy to play at a small disadvantage. But it's still a disadvantage, on every hand.

They shuffle very early and i've even seen terms which state that if it even looks like you're card counting they will confiscate your winnings

 

[The Dude]

They shuffle very early and i've even seen terms which state that if it even looks like you're card counting they will confiscate your winnings

It depends on where you are. A couple of years ago, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled that card counting - specifically "advantage play" is not illegal and the casinos could not confiscate the winnings derived from this. The link is buried somewhere in the forum. 15 rep points for the first member to post it here in this thread

As for the movie "21", you should read the book - the non-fictional story. The movie was formulaic conventional writing with embellished Hollywood ideas. Book is better.

 

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

As for the movie "21", you should read the book - the non-fictional story. The movie was formulaic conventional writing with embellished Hollywood ideas. Book is better.

I couldn't agree more, the book is "Bringing Down the House" by Ben Mezrich, a very entertaining read.

Old / Expired Link)

 

[Jufo]

I just watched that movie '21' last night. It's the true story of the gifted students from MIT that went to vegas every weekend and counted cards. They made a killing.

I won't spoil the ending but it's not pretty.

Not sure how that relates to online but thought I'd share.

Indie film 'Last Casino' is far better movie than '21'. You can watch the whole movie in Youtube by searching with the movie title. There is also a documentary film about the MIT card counters with their testimonies.

 

[elscrabinda]

It depends on where you are. A couple of years ago, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled that card counting - specifically "advantage play" is not illegal and the casinos could not confiscate the winnings derived from this. The link is buried somewhere in the forum. 15 rep points for the first member to post it here in this thread

As for the movie "21", you should read the book - the non-fictional story. The movie was formulaic conventional writing with embellished Hollywood ideas. Book is better.

Sorry, should have made it clearer. I was referring to live online casinos.

21 the film was pretty poor. Its a fun story, but to a) try and make card counting sexy, and b) to make out that its a staggeringly complex science that only mathematical geniuses can manage, is not very practical or realistic. It did have one good line in it though- when one of the cast stumbles whilst walking past an attractive woman his buddy says to him "basic strategy says you should hit that"

 

[mojo]

It depends on where you are. A couple of years ago, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled that card counting - specifically "advantage play" is not illegal and the casinos could not confiscate the winnings derived from this.

How is Nevada Casinos dealing with this? Still fracturing limbs or can they just refuse known card counters? In the movie they had new face identity technology.

 

[winbig]

As for the movie "21", you should read the book - the non-fictional story. The movie was formulaic conventional writing with embellished Hollywood ideas. Book is better.

You've got that right. I couldn't get past 20-30 minutes of the movie before I quit watching it because of the differences between the book and the movie. It's like they tried to set the movie in present day, and for me at least, it just didn't work...

It's such a shame that they destroy 99% of stories when they try to make a movie out of a great book (especially non-fiction ones.)

 

[NASHVEGAS]

It depends on where you are. A couple of years ago, the Nevada Supreme Court ruled that card counting - specifically "advantage play" is not illegal and the casinos could not confiscate the winnings derived from this. The link is buried somewhere in the forum. 15 rep points for the first member to post it here in this thread

As for the movie "21", you should read the book - the non-fictional story. The movie was formulaic conventional writing with embellished Hollywood ideas. Book is better.

There are several threads but I believe you were referring to this one as it is the one I recollect you posted in.......Too easy since Bob Nersesian was my attorney. I recommend his book to all which is available in the Meister Mall....An excellent website www.thebeargrowls.com

See Posts #31 and #34 in the no longer buried link

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/bonus-advantage-play-etc.17461/

 

[NASHVEGAS]

The excerpt of the quote I believe CM remembered from Posts#31 and quoted in CM's Post#34:

"The Nevada Supreme Court agrees that advantage gambling is legal and can include such techniques as card counting, shuffle tracking and playing slot machines that are paying out more than their fair share. Nevada's highest court, as well as courts in other gambling states, have ruled advantage gambling is legal since players don't manipulate any cards or machines. Rather, they do nothing more than use normal intelligence much as a bridge player would use while watching other players."

It was Bob's persistence and more that finally obtained the favorable ruling around 2002 or so. He also would put the Griffin Book out of business eventually.

Last I heard, he was taking on the Nevada trespass law a la a Upton years ago in Atlantic City, via lawsuit but the original case I believe was heard in a LV federal court and the court gave an unfavorable ruling so I believe now the case is being heard by the Nevada Supreme Court...not 100% sure though,sorry!!

 

[The Dude]

Thanks! That's what I was looking for

You've got 15 rep points added from moi

 

[silcnlayc]

Bummer, beat me to it! I love these kinds of games...seek and find..and to get a prize too, can't beat that!

.

 

[funky_seagull]

I think it might be possible with live games, but not perfect as they tend to shuffle early, usually about halfway through the shoe. However I have noticed on some occasions you can get a lot of low cards stacked at the front of the shoe early, and then that can give you an advantage, if the true count gets to 3+ and over you can have a go at raising your bets, whilst you still have some time before they change the shoe... this has worked for me in the past.

But don't hold your breath...

I don't bother with it anymore...

I think some of the multiplayer tournaments don't shuffle after every hand, at least that is what I am led to believe. William Hill sent me an email advertising their multiplayer blackjack tournaments, with instructions on how to card count included. Advising players to learn this strategy and then log on and use the new found knowledge in their multiplayer blackjack tournaments to win. The advice they sent was a little bit different to how I learnt card counting. It advised players to divide the gross count by the number of half decks left in the deck to get the true count, so if there was 4 decks in play you would divide the count by 8 to get the true count, but I was taught to divide the gross count by the number of decks left in the shoe to get the true count, so if there were 4 decks still in play I would divide the count by 4 to get the true count.... It is a bit strange to be sent an email from a casino with instructions on how to card count and encouragement to try it out on their blackjack games. Unless it is a clever ploy to get people to lose more money, because the casino knows card counting is useless in online blackjack...

Tournaments I have found can become a matter of luck rather than skill, and although I experienced good fortune to begin with, now I am finding it difficult to win at tournaments, as I seem to be dealt a lot of dire hands at the moment, and going bust, or having a hard 17 which often isn't strong enough to beat the dealer. I enjoy playing them however, but now tend to just go for the free ones, or very cheap buy-ins, as the expensive buy-ins just seem too risky...

Online blackjack played with basic strategy can reduce the house edge to about 0.5% on most blackjacks except the dodgy ones... and could be used to win with bonuses in the past, but not anymore.... as blackjack is excluded from most bonus wagering requirements or given a 10% weighting... winning online blackjack online has become to me something unattainable, and I'm sure casinos love this game in its cyber form, because all strategies used to beat it in brick and mortar casinos are useless online, and basic strategy although reducing the house edge, still makes the player a long term loser...