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Comments Welcome Can UKGC licensed casinos require photo IDs?

The Dude

The artist formally known as Casinomeister
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Here's a question that has come to mind concerning KYC docs and UKGC licensed casinos. For some odd reason (perhaps the fear of an Orwellian world), the UK doesn't require its citizens to have a photo ID. Unless you are driving on the wrong side of the road, or coming to Tenerife to get pissed and trash the beaches - you don't need one.

But all of the UKGC licensed casinos require folks to properly ID themselves, and this is traditionally done by providing picture IDs. Now, we have had a number of complaints in the past, and one ongoing one right now where a player is being requested to produce a picture ID. I have gone through a number of UK facing casinos' terms and conditions, and some state that they would ask for a photo ID, or they would have a third party get involved as in the case of Betspin:
We are required to lock your account to prevent any withdrawals until such time as your identity has been verified. We may use a recognised third party provider to undertake these checks on our behalf. By agreeing to these terms you authorise us to provide your personal details to such third party, who will keep a record of the information we provide to them.

So my question is, how are UK players dealing with this? Do you know that you may be asked for a photo ID? If you don't have one, how do you deal with these rules? Further, should the casinos make it more apparent in-your-face that you may need to provide a copy of a passport or driver's license?

Are UK facing casinos willing to make this requirement more conspicuous or pronounced? Or are they actually using third parties to figure out who people are? VWM will love this thread. :p
 
Third party verification is very common in the UK market. The Old / Expired Link. The third parties are companies like Jumio (I've no association with them - but they're the ones that seem to advertise most and I noticed bet365 use them) who can automate KYC. The two things that they seem to do are:
1) Check customer details against publicly / commercially available databases, such as the electoral register. This is common.
2) As an additional service, automatic validation that documents, when they are required to be uploaded, match account details and are not forged.

The best thing to do is make sure you are on the electoral register at the exact address that matches your account and payment details.
 
This has been a bit of a random one for me since I started online gambling, some casino's accept birth certificate and some demand photo ID, an example is GUT's who will not verify me with my old driving licence as the photo is just out of date and will not accept a birth certificate, however Betspin accepted the birth certificate no questions and the 3rd family member Rizk rejected the birth certificate and said they need photo ID until I pointed them to there FAQ's that state they accept birth certificate's and then it was accepted! :what:

You then have the big bookmakers who seem to electronically verify you and there has never been any mention of ID or proof of deposit method, this seems the best way as there's no hassle to the player and the company are obviously assured of your age and identity.

Then there's the casino's that don't need to verify you until you withdraw over £2000 or thereabouts (Casumo as example) and then the other end of the scale the casino's that want you verified within 24-72 hrs of registration or the account is instantly locked

It all seems a bit hit and miss and so I tend to stick the ones I'm verified at now or haven't had any problems in the past withdrawing, of course they also need to be accredited on here for piece of mind :thumbsup:
 
As a player my wife is facing an uphill struggle with this sort of thing as we speak.

I am ok as I have a drivers licence with my mug shot on it, she does not and her passport recently expired.

Funnily enough she has been on to Mr Smith Casino live chat this morning to explain her situation. The response was shouldn't be a problem as we do not need to ask you for ID at present!

Going on to ask, 'What If I win big?' then the reply came that it could become a problem.

Other casinos (accredited here) have offered compromise, suck as a birth and marriage certificate and extra personal letters, confirming name and address etc.

Not all have been so lenient but have made efforts, Leo Vegas for example offered to accept the expired passport but only if the photo showed her holding it??

Video Slots (IIRC) suggested obtaining a national ID card which would cost her/us £15GBP and possibly her balance whilst waiting as she does have the tendency for the odd reversal!

She also spoke with her 'regular' casinos where these docs were used (but whilst the passport was still valid) about their authenticity not that the passport has expired and was more or less told, should be ok as your account(s) are already verified but if we hit a bump in the road then we will cross that bridge when we come to it.
 
Well checking my credit file I see a number of checks from different casinos this past year. They dont leave a footprint so dont impact on a credit score but did validate where I lived and the data I provided matched.
Its a bit of a liberty though that they do this without consent - as any other credit related check the 3rd party needs to make you aware of this. Unless of course its hidden deep with the casinos terms and conditions.

Its a problem though if no photo ID but how many truly dont have either a driving license or a passport ?

ps. Im sure VML can give us the full run down on credit agency ref check ;)
 
At the moment, we deal with this by requesting:

- A photograph of the player holding their birth certificate.
- A scanned copy of the birth certificate.

This is enough to approve an account, however we do need to get it double-checked by our compliance team which can delay verification slightly.

Also worth noting, if the player's birth certificate shows a different name (i.e. they have since got married and taken a different surname) we also require a copy of the marriage certificate.

Thanks,

Rachel.
 
Hello,

I would say that its more the UKGC/EU which is quite stricit on that the casinos/or other operations know their customers. I would recommend people to read the below link to understand what happens if the casino dont take KYC and EDD seriously.

Old / Expired Link

This is even getting stricter with time as the new EU regulation will take place in 2017. Then you should do an EDD ( enhanced due diligence) on customer depositing or winnings more than €X amount within 24 hours period.

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You can read more about what EDD is here
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. The casino might ask you where you got your source of funds and other very private stuff which I personally dont really agree with. However all operations need to follow this.
 
Electronic verification is the best way to deal with this and as it was pointed out the UKGC encourages this for remote operators. Jumio, Callcredit, Experian offer this type of check. A money laundering check does not mean you are suspected of anything illegal. The money laundering checks made at credit reference agencies leave an ‘enquiry footprint’ – an indelible record so that you can see who has checked you out. The enquiry footprint does not have any impact on your credit score or on your ability to get credit. In addition enhanced due diligence can be made to ensure payment options are on your name. A casino that is not doing this type of check is in breach of LCCP, (protecting children and vulnerable people and keeping crime away) there's no threshold for that.


The following sources may, therefore, be useful for verification of UK-based customers: (Old / Expired Link)

• current signed passport
• birth certificate
• current photocard driving licence
• current EEA member state identity card
• current identity card issued by the Electoral Office for Northern Ireland
• residence permit issued by the Home Office
• firearms certificate or shotgun licence
• benefit book or original notification letter from the Department of Works and Pensions confirming the right to benefits
• council tax bill
• utility bill or statement (but not ones printed off the internet), or a certificate from a utilities supplier confirming an arrangement to pay services on pre-payment terms
• bank, building society or credit union statement or passbook containing current address (but not statements printed off the internet) - bank or credit cards alone will not be sufficient as these do not provide either residential address or date of birth
• confirmation from an electoral register that a person of that name lives at that address
• recent original mortgage statement from a recognised lender
• solicitor’s letter confirming recent house purchase or land registry confirmation of address
• local council or housing association rent card or tenancy agreement
• HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) self-assessment statement or tax demand
• house or motor insurance certificate.

On that Old / Expired Linkyou can also find criteria for use of an electronic data provider.
 
KYC is for security reason, having a photo ID is standard practice and if UK normally doesn't bother getting one that doesn't change the fact that we as Casino will need it to ensure we are able to fully ID our players.
A majority of players are not required to do it at all. We run various checks in the background and in most cases that’s enough to determine the risk.

However, players that are deemed low risk and remain active might end up getting a document request anyway due to regulations. That could be the case when you have reached a certain level of accumulated withdrawals, for instance. Most of the requests are made upon withdrawal but there can also be sample checks at any point.

We just recently publish a blog post about this topic, and you can read whole text Old / Expired Link
 
Hello,
This is my first post and its from a mobile so I hope it's gone to the correct place.

I encountered this problem when I first started online gaming as I don't drive and my passport has expired. I applied for my provisional driving license which cost around £35 and this has been widely accepted as photo ID along with a recent utility bill for the casinos I regularly play at.
I hope this helps
 
It just means the UK government will make more money from players without any photo ID.
By them having to pay for passports, driving licenses and birth certificate copies.
So, the UKGC is unlikely to change anything
 
This thread title brings back memories :eek:
One of my first posts at CM was because i couldn't get paid due to having no photo ID and 8 years later its still causing problems, its surprising really because of all the advances made in the on line world.

The answer is probably to get pre verified before depositing although it is still very hit and miss in what some casino's want,
Ive been Electrically verified 32Red
Ive had my birth certificate accepted as proof. Betat, Betspin Leo Vegas, Betsafe
Ive been told i need a photo ID Mr Green, Video Slots and some others
At slotty Vegas (Betats sister casino)ive been told i need to supply a photo of me holding my documents I didnt really mind to much about that as it was explained to me why.
and in 1 case i was told they dont accept scribble written on a piece of paper (my birth certificate)

Although in the UK now there inst really any boundaries in getting a photo ID with the citizen card
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but would casino's accept it or would they want a passport or driving license, it really is a guessing game until casino's tell you exactly what they want and it should be made clear in the T&Cs
 
Here's a question that has come to mind concerning KYC docs and UKGC licensed casinos. For some odd reason (perhaps the fear of an Orwellian world), the UK doesn't require its citizens to have a photo ID. Unless you are driving on the wrong side of the road, or coming to Tenerife to get pissed and trash the beaches - you don't need one.

But all of the UKGC licensed casinos require folks to properly ID themselves, and this is traditionally done by providing picture IDs. Now, we have had a number of complaints in the past, and one ongoing one right now where a player is being requested to produce a picture ID. I have gone through a number of UK facing casinos' terms and conditions, and some state that they would ask for a photo ID, or they would have a third party get involved as in the case of Betspin:

So my question is, how are UK players dealing with this? Do you know that you may be asked for a photo ID? If you don't have one, how do you deal with these rules? Further, should the casinos make it more apparent in-your-face that you may need to provide a copy of a passport or driver's license?

Are UK facing casinos willing to make this requirement more conspicuous or pronounced? Or are they actually using third parties to figure out who people are? VWM will love this thread. :p

Ah this thread makes sense now @Maxd :)

I've been asked several times to produce copies of a photographic ID in form of a driving license or a passport and have always provided them as a matter of course. Indeed whilst holding and possessing a form of photo id is not a legal requirement in the UK, there are times whereby you need to have a passport or driving license.

Mainly when dealing with banks or most recently for me when obtaining probate for my late dad's estate. So by not having a Driving License or Passport, situations like this would indeed prove problematic.

The Labour Govt under Tony Blair when they were elected in 97 tried to put through a law making ID cards compulsory, but it got defeated.

Whilst we do not have an ID Card system for UK Citizens or Subjects that reside in the UK, I can however understand why online casinos, including those operating with a UKGC license would require one when performing the standard KYC check.

Even if you have never been abroad or cannot drive, getting a provisional driving license is not really a big issue and doesn't cost the earth. Especially if it helps you jump through that hoop to enable you to make a cash out at a casino.
 
In this day and age their should be no need to submit either a photo id or any other paper document to any casino.

That's the reason why you find the occasional post where a UK player was shocked at getting asked to send photo id and documents to casinos as the sites they had used before would never have asked it.

All the large UK sites ie the main bookies, coral , William hill , Ladbrokes etc and casinos like 32red would not normally ask for any id of a player in UK unless they have a problem verifying the players identity.

They must automatically verify these players are over 18 and who they say they are electronically before allowing them to play. And after that theirs no need to request ID as the player is verified.

All the foreign casinos ask for the standard ID and photo ID. But to be honest they could also electronically verify players if they wished they just don't and the law doesnt say they need it just that they need to verify who the person is.

If all the largest UK sites are happy enough to trust there computers verification of customers its good enough for any site. Just that would be too simple.
 
1. As a UK player I have played for years at some casinos like Sky and 32red and never had to submit photo ID/docs. This is because they obviously use automated third-party agencies on my behalf which is enough to satisfy the UKGC and themselves.

2. As a UK citizen it's rare to reach gambling age 18 and NOT have availed yourself of photo ID in the form of a driving license or passport. Obviously there are a few people who'd rather gamble than experience foreign travel or getting mobile by way of a vehicle, more fool them. But they are a tiny minority.

3. In my experience as a UK player, seldom do UK-based casinos ask for ID because they seem to use third parties like Experian etc. and can KYC you pretty easily this way - if they can't they do, as required, ask you to submit proof.

4. Foreign-owned casinos which have a UK license nearly always ask, like say Guts. Maybe not at first, but certainly when you withdraw over a threshold. Probably saves costs for the one-visit one-hit player who never comes back.

5. The bigger the casino, the more likely they are to absorb the costs of KYC themselves by doing it through third parties, rather than manually request docs and mess around.

The question 'can UKGC casinos require photo ID?' is correctly answered with an emphatic yes - and to cover this it is ALWAYS mentioned in their terms.

A more practical proposition may be 'DO UK licensed casinos require photo ID?' - in many cases no because they can exercise due diligence without it.

My advice would be not to ever gamble online without it - after all the terms always specify it MAY be required.
 
Or are they actually using third parties to figure out who people are

Pretty much every casino does this on sign up. You are checked against stuff like voters roll/credit agencys/192.com/deceased register/county court judgement register. This has been happening for years. I have seen soft searches on my credit report as well from online casinos.

As for picture ID, you are right you don't HAVE to have one in the UK. However like you also mentioned you do have to have one for going abroad, driving, opening some bank accounts etc things like that. I think under "things like that" opening accounts where you can move large amounts of money around qualifies. So I think show us your picture ID is a valid request to a UK citizen from an online casino.
 
Pretty much every casino does this on sign up. You are checked against stuff like voters roll/credit agencys/192.com/deceased register/county court judgement register. This has been happening for years. I have seen soft searches on my credit report as well from online casinos.

As for picture ID, you are right you don't HAVE to have one in the UK. However like you also mentioned you do have to have one for going abroad, driving, opening some bank accounts etc things like that. I think under "things like that" opening accounts where you can move large amounts of money around qualifies. So I think show us your picture ID is a valid request to a UK citizen from an online casino.

I disagree. Plenty of people don't drive and haven't been abroad, so not sure why they should have to fork out for a passport or take driving lessons and pass a test (provisional license shouldn't be used as ID as the checks to get it aren't strict enough) just to be able to play online at a casino.

One or two household bills (not mobile phone) and a couple of official goverment letters, like P60, benefit or pension letter or photo of both sides of a bank or credit card should suffice, if you can open a bank account, take out a loan, or get a mortgage with that type of ID then you should be able to withdraw at a casino.

I also think the casino's should be more upfront with KYC policies. People talk on here as if its to be expected, yes it is, but not if you have never had an account anywhere before, or had accounts at firms where they verify your ID without you sending docs in. Is it really too much to ask to put a note on the registration page saying 'please note: before you can withdraw we are required by law to verify you are who you say you are, click here for full details' then link to a clear page of what KYC is and how to complete it. In fact if they don't verify you electronically then you shouldn't be allowed to deposit until you complete KYC.
 
Although NRR Entertainment (BETAT and Slotty Vegas) take KYC very seriously we try not to undermine difficulties facing UK players when it comes to ID verification.
As most operators do we are able to accept a valid driving license or provisional driving license, passport or a copy of the birth certificate with the player's face showing whilst holding the certificate. We use Jumio for ID verification and rely on their excellent service to accept or decline different forms of ID (apart from birth certificate!). Players from N. Ireland may even use their Electoral Identity Card for good measure!
 
A private company has no power to "require" a customer provide something that does not exist, or that would not be available to them. This of course applies to UK licenced casinos accepting UK players. Players also have legal protection against "Unfair business practices" and also must be "treated fairly" by any business.

Confiscating a win (having accepted all the prior deposits and losses) would not be seen as the customer being "treated fairly" if there was an inflexible approach that made it impossible for the player to meet what is required of them.

The banks have already been rapped over the knuckles over the issue of too strict a requirement for documentation as it meant significant numbers of people were "financially excluded" from having a main stream bank account simply because they didn't drive nor travel. The electronic checking works so well because it has to stand in lieu of a national ID card, and of course needs to be fit for purpose.

However, it does rely on the player making sure they register for the electoral roll, which unlike driving or travelling abroad, is actually a legal requirement, and theoretically one can be fined £1000 for not registering on the electoral roll.

The ONLY approximation we have for an ID card, one that is purely a proof of ID and age, rather than a licence to drive or a travel document, are the privately issued "citizen cards". They are primarily used as "proof of age", but obviously need a photo of the holder to compare with the person using it when buying that bottle of White Lightning paint stripper at the local convenience store.

It's mainly because a significant number of adults aspire to drive that most players are able to send in their driving licence as their "National ID card", however not everyone can drive, and a significant minority can never drive due to their medical conditions. They can't even get a provisional (without failing to declare on the application form) in order to please a casino.

When dealing with a UK player, casinos should look at the rules governing their UK licence, and if they conflict with a licence from, say, Malta, then the UK rules should predominate.

It's fine for a country that issues ID cards to all adult citizens to say that it's safe to say that anyone who can't present one is "dodgy", but this assumption does not apply in the UK.

Passports are not compulsory, and if the EU had it's way over the UK, many more British players wouldn't have one. I would expect many European players only bother getting a passport if they intend to leave the EU, but of course they have ID cards, so it's not an issue casinos will have become aware of.

In the end, a UK player can as a last resort get a passport, but if it's their first one, it can take many weeks, and involves a personal interview at a passport centre. Given that it's such an ordeal, it's hardly surprising that many UK players resent the fact that a casino has been more than happy to accept lost deposits for months, if not years, but then suddenly insists they go to all this effort to get a passport when they win because nothing else is good enough. No player wants to have their life changing win on hold for a couple of months whilst they obtain their passport when there has been no such problems in other aspects of their financial lives, to which the SAME anti money laundering laws apply as apply to casinos.

Ironically, casinos even go out of their way to cater for players who don't hold a bank account, the financially excluded, by offering things like the former UKash and now Paysafe voucher system, even PREFERRING such options in a few cases, yet these are the same players who are least likely to ever be able to provide "photo ID", which is WHY they have to resort to things like UKash vouchers for all their online payments - they can't get a bank account, let alone a card.

Regulated online casinos have only just been introduced into the UK, before that it was a free for all, up to us where we played, and the government would neither interfere nor protect us, nor make any tax revenue from the activity. If the problem of "financial exclusion" becomes an issue with UK facing casinos due to their insistence that the UK government should have issued ID cards in order to make the rules work properly, the casinos can expect the same rap over the knuckles felt by the banks, and will be told to use electronic checks in the main, and supplement these with documents that ARE issued to UK citizens, and in the combinations proscribed on the lists used by the banks for verifying customers. These lists provide for the fact that some customers will neither drive nor travel, and will ONLY have the "paper" documents from official sources.

There is a suspicion that casinos are not always playing fair with UK players because they have to PAY for conducting these electronic verification checks, but it's FREE to source the passports and driving licences direct from the player, so there is only the costs involved with internal verification.

One sign that casinos need to adjust to the UK way of doing things is all the complaints that have been upheld by the ASA over the "industry standard" methods of advertising bonuses and other promotions on websites and via email. These were "misleading" by design due to the fact that they needed to be "click bait", but this falls foul of advertising rules in the UK, where "click bait" isn't allowed if it gives a misleading impression of the offer as a whole that can only be seen once someone has clicked through. The ASA expects negative aspects to be given "equal prominence" as the positive aspects, which pretty much renders the standard "£1100 free - keep what you win" free spins offers that came for many Microgaming casinos unlawful in the UK, which is probably why I don't see them so much for UK facing casinos. Where I do, a ruling from the ASA is likely to follow.

It's good to see that many of the UK facing casinos ARE moving over to electronic verification, however this can have the unintended effect of lulling UK players into a false sense of security, with those who don't drive or travel at risk of receiving a VERY nasty shock one day should they hit an exceptional win, or are marked for a random enhanced verification check.
 
Great post VMW :thumbsup:

Confiscating a win (having accepted all the prior deposits and losses) would not be seen as the customer being "treated fairly" if there was an inflexible approach that made it impossible for the player to meet what is required of them.

Several years ago, before the the UK licensing, I had a big win at All Slots. My passport was out of date and I had misplaced the counterpart form of my driving license - I had my photocard license though.

However, All Slots wanted the counterpart form in addition to the photocard license and would not release my winnings without it. Thankfully as I am an affiliate and was back then, I got Lloyd to sort it for me, without the need to request either a new Driving License or apply for a new passport. This would have been the scenario facing a player in my situation. Not good IMO.
 
However, All Slots wanted the counterpart form in addition to the photocard license and would not release my winnings without it. Thankfully as I am an affiliate and was back then, I got Lloyd to sort it for me, without the need to request either a new Driving License or apply for a new passport. This would have been the scenario facing a player in my situation. Not good IMO.

You are right that can not be nice for players in that situation without good contacts like you had. At least you did have a way out (going through the hassle of getting a new counterpart licence) but it would have been frustrating.

An equally frustrating situation, which I think is probably quite common, should be touched on in this thread as well in my opinion. That is the one of "proof of address" documents.

These are regularly requested at the same time as the proof of ID and a frequent rule is that they must be actual physical documents, an electronic document will not suffice. The problem is for the last decade society has been moving strongly towards paperless statements/billing for stuff that is accepted. Bank statements, electricity bills and the like. I would also like to see electronic verification for this side of things to be more common, and the acceptance of online documents for KYC purposes. It must be an extreme hassle for players who cannot get hold of a proof of address that is acceptable to release the big win as everything they receive is paperless.
 
You are right that can not be nice for players in that situation without good contacts like you had. At least you did have a way out (going through the hassle of getting a new counterpart licence) but it would have been frustrating.

An equally frustrating situation, which I think is probably quite common, should be touched on in this thread as well in my opinion. That is the one of "proof of address" documents.

These are regularly requested at the same time as the proof of ID and a frequent rule is that they must be actual physical documents, an electronic document will not suffice. The problem is for the last decade society has been moving strongly towards paperless statements/billing for stuff that is accepted. Bank statements, electricity bills and the like. I would also like to see electronic verification for this side of things to be more common, and the acceptance of online documents for KYC purposes. It must be an extreme hassle for players who cannot get hold of a proof of address that is acceptable to release the big win as everything they receive is paperless.

The thing is, these issues are the same issues you will face for other aspects of life in the UK. As I mentioned in a previous post. I had to provide proof of address and photo id as part of obtaining probate for my dad's estate in the summer. There are also many other instances where this occurs here in the UK. Indeed, in land based casinos in the UK, should you cash out over a certain amount, photo id and acceptable correspondence with your address on is required.
 
The thing is, these issues are the same issues you will face for other aspects of life in the UK. As I mentioned in a previous post. I had to provide proof of address and photo id as part of obtaining probate for my dad's estate in the summer. There are also many other instances where this occurs here in the UK. Indeed, in land based casinos in the UK, should you cash out over a certain amount, photo id and acceptable correspondence with your address on is required.

But the point is, if you don't have any photo ID you can use other forms of ID for probate, opening a bank account etc, such as official government letters from benefits agencies, P60, bank card etc, whereas some casino's just refuse point blank to give you your winnings without photo ID.

I completely agree photo ID makes life easier, but it is possible to do everything without it, well except get paid from a casino!
 
whereas some casino's just refuse point blank to give you your winnings without photo ID.

Or in my case with All Slots back in circa 2010 ( https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/bloody-hell.35906/?t=35906 - gods knows what happened to the screenshot ), the photo id wasn't enough. No, they had to introduce another fence for me to jump over in the form of the counterpart. Thanks again to Lloyd for resolving :thumbsup:

Anyhow, I digress, whilst what you are saying is right, having photo id makes life so much much easier. I guess with UK licensed online casinos, they should ensure KYC is done and completed before you are allowed to deposit, if their due diligence KYC checks insist on a form of photo id.
 
Or in my case with All Slots back in circa 2010 ( https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/bloody-hell.35906/?t=35906 - gods knows what happened to the screenshot ), the photo id wasn't enough. No, they had to introduce another fence for me to jump over in the form of the counterpart. Thanks again to Lloyd for resolving :thumbsup:

Anyhow, I digress, whilst what you are saying is right, having photo id makes life so much much easier. I guess with UK licensed online casinos, they should ensure KYC is done and completed before you are allowed to deposit, if their due diligence KYC checks insist on a form of photo id.

Odd that, I had some pretty big wins at Jackpot Factory, and my photo driving license was good enough, no need to send the counterpart, they did not even mention it.

I trust casinos know that last year the counterpart was abolished. It was only ever used to record the types of vehicles one could drive and points for driving offences, all of which had NOTHING to do with the ID aspect, so it should have been none of their business even if you had it.
 
You are right that can not be nice for players in that situation without good contacts like you had. At least you did have a way out (going through the hassle of getting a new counterpart licence) but it would have been frustrating.

An equally frustrating situation, which I think is probably quite common, should be touched on in this thread as well in my opinion. That is the one of "proof of address" documents.

These are regularly requested at the same time as the proof of ID and a frequent rule is that they must be actual physical documents, an electronic document will not suffice. The problem is for the last decade society has been moving strongly towards paperless statements/billing for stuff that is accepted. Bank statements, electricity bills and the like. I would also like to see electronic verification for this side of things to be more common, and the acceptance of online documents for KYC purposes. It must be an extreme hassle for players who cannot get hold of a proof of address that is acceptable to release the big win as everything they receive is paperless.

Apart from the physical document aspect, which is irrelevant anyway as many electronic bills can be downloaded as a PDF of the EXACT physical document they would post out for "paper billing", and this is so that you can print your own paper bill if you want one for your records. Indeed, some companies even steer you towards printing your own paper bill from the PDF rather than opting for postal statements. It's easy then to print off your paper bill from the PDF, and then treat that as a paper bill to scan, photo, including all 4 corners showing and using the page showing name and address. It's impossible for casinos to tell the difference because they only have a scan or a photo of a printed bill on standard A4 paper, the SAME paper that is used for postal bills. The only way they can tell the difference is if you tell them beforehand, or it's a document that goes beyond a standard utility bill, and is printed on bespoke paper, perhaps with a watermark, that should show up even in a scan or photo.

The other problem is even worse, casinos assume that the player is "head of household" and has the bills in their name. This assumption is only going to be correct in single person households like mine, but it's more normal for people to live in family groups, and ANY adult could be the player, and quite legally, but they may not be the one who pays the bills. With utility bills, it's left to the adults in a household to decide for themselves who pays, the utility company just needs one name on the account to bill for what is supplied, they don't care who else lives there and is also using the gas, electric, water, etc. So long as they are getting paid.

Many potential players would face having to alter their household setup, even to the extent of contriving a structure just to suit the casinos. Surely the LAST thing casinos want is for regular players having to resort to some of the tricks often employed by "advantage players" simply so that they can set up their household such that each adult would have what they need, and in their name, should they be pulled up for a documented KYC as opposed to the electronic system. I say this because in doing the research, such players will inevitably find temptation, and the knowledge that they can go much further than simply ensure that each of them has a bill in their name and a photo document. They will also see articles, blogs, and general bragging about how some players can make "easy money" by taking full advantage of how the industry works in terms of marketing, loyalty, +EV "loss leader" offers to attract new players (and how to avoid the pitfalls that lead to not getting paid). This is nothing to do with fraud, it's purely "advantage play", no different to the craze for "extreme couponing" that seems to be spreading as people brag about such feats as doing a major grocery shop with a huge wad of coupons and a pocket full of loose change to pay a few quid left over once all the coupon discounts have been taken off.
 
Hi Everyone,

Currently we are a partner company of EM and therefore are restricted by their guidelines.
This means that in order to verify an account we only accept a government issued form of ID such as a driving license or passport.

In the future there is scope to change this to have electronic verification tools in place.
If a player has his basic identity verified, we could accept identification such as a birth certificate.
Please note that in these cases if the name of a player changes or for other security reasons, we would require evidence of the name change or identity: e.g. a marriage certificate or other documents.

Kind Regards,
Casino Cruise
 
Hi Everyone,

Currently we are a partner company of EM and therefore are restricted by their guidelines.
This means that in order to verify an account we only accept a government issued form of ID such as a driving license or passport.

In the future there is scope to change this to have electronic verification tools in place.
If a player has his basic identity verified, we could accept identification such as a birth certificate.
Please note that in these cases if the name of a player changes or for other security reasons, we would require evidence of the name change or identity: e.g. a marriage certificate or other documents.

Kind Regards,
Casino Cruise

The guidelines of a private company are not above the law. Consumer rights cannot be restricted by company policy, it's been tried, and companies have regretted it after having been slapped with fines or taken to court. In fact, a consumer can't even sign away their legal rights even if they wanted to in order to get a contract with a company. This too has been tried, and has also failed in court as the offending terms have just been struck out by the judge as being in violation of the law.

Casinos offering service to UK players should have had everything in place in time.

Driving licence is not actually a "government issued ID" in any case, many companies misunderstand the nature of the document, and what it is for. Funnily enough, it's more akin to a certificate for completing a course of education and passing the exam at the end. It's just that in this case it's a driving course, and the exam at the end is the driving test. The purpose behind the photo card licence was to combat test fraud, where experienced drivers would be paid to take the test on behalf of the student to ensure they got a pass whether or not they were fit to be on the road. This is served by having the test centre reception compare the student about to sit the test with the photo on the licence. It confirms whether or not the person taking the test is the same person against who's record a pass will be noted with DVLA. What it doesn't check is the student's ID in the broader sense.

As a stunt, a TV documentary demonstrated how lax the procedures are by successfully applying for a provisional licence for our then home secretary. DVLA duly sent back the provisional in his name, even though the application had not come from him, and was from an address used by the TV production company. This was a failure at the most basic level. Pretty much everyone knew who David Blunkett was at the time, a very senior minister, always in the news, and not only that, he was BLIND! - yet the DVLA approved the application. This is an issue for the ordinary citizen because it shows how easy ID fraud can be when someone has just enough of your details to trick DVLA into issuing a driving licence in someone else's name. The culture of accepting the driving licence as the UK's "national identity card" as a short cut for the inability to handle how the process of ID verification works in the UK is what then does the damage.

It's possible that casinos may have players using such a trick with driving licences on their books, and it has worked as the system puts the player in charge of sourcing and sending off all the documentation that the casino uses in it's verification process. True ID cards would be more robust, and proper checking would take place before one was issued. one of the reasons the UK government scrapped the idea was the expense of doing all these checks for EVERY citizen, not just those who volunteered for the document, as is the case with passports. As with passports, the checking for ID cards would have involved a personal interview with the applicant as well as all the data checks.

Even passports could become a problem as an ID checker for casinos due to the move towards biometric data being embedded into a chip on the document, rather than being printed on a page. This isn't going to help when all the casino gets is a scan or photo of the relevant document page, but no access to the data on the chip.

The UK government does not support the use of these documents as proof of ID other than in the context of driving test centres and border crossings. This means that changes will not be held off simply because it prevents a scanned copy of the document being as useful for remote ID checking. Instead, the electronic methods are supported, and are being made better and more inclusive. However, one change made recently that was supposed to make the system work even better has somewhat backfired. The change to individual electoral registration as opposed to household based registration has seen a significant number of voters fall off the register, so for these people, the electronic systems have been "broken", but they probably don't realise because they have always had their registration taken care of by the "head of household", and haven't had to worry about it before. Students studying at university away from home seem to have suffered the biggest impact from the change as the behind the scenes bulk registration at hall of residence level has ended.
 
hi

well i provided council tax bill departement work pension letter phone bill bank statements medicall card etc etc and when i applied for driving licence got letter today saying as my birth certificate has a differant name i would need to change my name by dee poll so its not that easy as i am finding out..or they will give my licence in the name on my birth certificate and that wouldnt be much good for id at a casino..but the fact i will stand by all the paper id i provided in my eyes was way enough to verify i was me but hell no.regards beverly
 
Photo ID

I find it really funny how they only ask for it upon a withdrawal. It seems to be you when you're making as many deposits as you can before getting that win !? I get it all the time !! I have a passport but it's out of date and I'm not going to order another one until I actually go on holiday.

I've always seen it as an easy way for casinos not to pay out !! And that's just one of the ways :eek2:

Just stick to the casinos that don't ask or have already accepted other documents that you have and are no older than 3 months (Birth certificate, bank statements, card scans, government letters and bills) I find that all of these documents together is a good, solid combination of your identification !! I mean, who else is going to have all of them documents other than you ?! Especially the bills, bank statements and government letters that only get sent to your address.

It's just another thing that's sucking the "FUN" out of online gambling :rolleyes:
 
Do most UKGC casino accept Citizen card?

Here's a question that has come to mind concerning KYC docs and UKGC licensed casinos. For some odd reason (perhaps the fear of an Orwellian world), the UK doesn't require its citizens to have a photo ID. Unless you are driving on the wrong side of the road, or coming to Tenerife to get pissed and trash the beaches - you don't need one.

But all of the UKGC licensed casinos require folks to properly ID themselves, and this is traditionally done by providing picture IDs. Now, we have had a number of complaints in the past, and one ongoing one right now where a player is being requested to produce a picture ID. I have gone through a number of UK facing casinos' terms and conditions, and some state that they would ask for a photo ID, or they would have a third party get involved as in the case of Betspin:

So my question is, how are UK players dealing with this? Do you know that you may be asked for a photo ID? If you don't have one, how do you deal with these rules? Further, should the casinos make it more apparent in-your-face that you may need to provide a copy of a passport or driver's license?

Are UK facing casinos willing to make this requirement more conspicuous or pronounced? Or are they actually using third parties to figure out who people are? VWM will love this thread. :p
Good Luck all
 
Do most UKGC casinos accept Citizen card?

Here's a question that has come to mind concerning KYC docs and UKGC licensed casinos. For some odd reason (perhaps the fear of an Orwellian world), the UK doesn't require its citizens to have a photo ID. Unless you are driving on the wrong side of the road, or coming to Tenerife to get pissed and trash the beaches - you don't need one.

But all of the UKGC licensed casinos require folks to properly ID themselves, and this is traditionally done by providing picture IDs. Now, we have had a number of complaints in the past, and one ongoing one right now where a player is being requested to produce a picture ID. I have gone through a number of UK facing casinos' terms and conditions, and some state that they would ask for a photo ID, or they would have a third party get involved as in the case of Betspin:

So my question is, how are UK players dealing with this? Do you know that you may be asked for a photo ID? If you don't have one, how do you deal with these rules? Further, should the casinos make it more apparent in-your-face that you may need to provide a copy of a passport or driver's license?

Are UK facing casinos willing to make this requirement more conspicuous or pronounced? Or are they actually using third parties to figure out who people are? VWM will love this thread. :p
And which ones ,been told has to be government issued but UK dont issue I.D cards? So Citizen card is it valid for I.D? Has pass logo expiry date D.O.B:what:
 
And which ones ,been told has to be government issued but UK dont issue I.D cards? So Citizen card is it valid for I.D? Has pass logo expiry date D.O.B:what:

It should be, because this is the scheme the government set up. The UK government decided effectively to privatise the issuing of point of sale ID cards, mainly for proof of age, and have authorised certain providers to issue these and use the official PASS scheme holographic stamp. ONLY citizen cards with this PASS mark are considered secure enough to be accepted as proof of age. The photo is there so that the person presenting the card can be checked against the photo to make sure it's their card.

Unfortunately, so many casinos fail to grasp how things work in the UK, and believe we have formal ID cards "like every other country", and that any UK player that tells them otherwise is probably trying to wriggle out of KYC rather than telling the truth. Things should be better with UK licenced casinos, and UK players will probably find this is less of a problem than it used to be.

If in doubt, get verified before depositing. If casinos are waiting on a deposit they often verify faster and are a little more flexible.
 
It should be, because this is the scheme the government set up. The UK government decided effectively to privatise the issuing of point of sale ID cards, mainly for proof of age, and have authorised certain providers to issue these and use the official PASS scheme holographic stamp. ONLY citizen cards with this PASS mark are considered secure enough to be accepted as proof of age. The photo is there so that the person presenting the card can be checked against the photo to make sure it's their card.

Unfortunately, so many casinos fail to grasp how things work in the UK, and believe we have formal ID cards "like every other country", and that any UK player that tells them otherwise is probably trying to wriggle out of KYC rather than telling the truth. Things should be better with UK licenced casinos, and UK players will probably find this is less of a problem than it used to be.

If in doubt, get verified before depositing. If casinos are waiting on a deposit they often verify faster and are a little more flexible.

See, this to me is what i have a problem with. Most casino's don't ask for any KYC even if you do 100 deposits, but as soon as you want money from them, you have to provide it. That is my main problem, as its ok saying 'get verified before deposit' but I would bet 90% of first time users or people who use places like Coral, Skybet etc have no idea you have to send ID off, as they all verify electronically, so why would they think anywhere else would be different?

The UKGC should make UK facing casino's have something, in bold, on the sign up page saying before you can withdraw you MUST supply ID, and if the casino only accepts photo ID, have that specified on the same page, or if not, a 'click here to see whats accepted' link.

I know LOADS of people who don't drive and don't have a passport, especially older people, and younger ones, probably not as much as a problem for people in say mid 20's upwards, but my mother didn't have any photo ID, my 21 year old daughter doesn't have any either. They both managed to have a mortgage, credit cards and the like. If they can get a £100,000 loan to buy a house without photo ID there is absolutely no reason at all why a casino should refuse to pay out because they don't have any, especially when they might have deposited 20 times before asking to withdraw!
 
See, this to me is what i have a problem with. Most casino's don't ask for any KYC even if you do 100 deposits, but as soon as you want money from them, you have to provide it. That is my main problem, as its ok saying 'get verified before deposit' but I would bet 90% of first time users or people who use places like Coral, Skybet etc have no idea you have to send ID off, as they all verify electronically, so why would they think anywhere else would be different?

The UKGC should make UK facing casino's have something, in bold, on the sign up page saying before you can withdraw you MUST supply ID, and if the casino only accepts photo ID, have that specified on the same page, or if not, a 'click here to see whats accepted' link.

I know LOADS of people who don't drive and don't have a passport, especially older people, and younger ones, probably not as much as a problem for people in say mid 20's upwards, but my mother didn't have any photo ID, my 21 year old daughter doesn't have any either. They both managed to have a mortgage, credit cards and the like. If they can get a £100,000 loan to buy a house without photo ID there is absolutely no reason at all why a casino should refuse to pay out because they don't have any, especially when they might have deposited 20 times before asking to withdraw!

This is because the bank would have used the system we have here in the UK, electronic verification via one of the credit reference agencies as well as cross checking against other data sources. The most important thing for this to work is to be registered on the electoral roll at your current address, as this is compulsory. It also helps a great deal to have had credit in the past so that a credit history has been built up.

Citizen card, and other photo documents, are used at shops when buying alcohol and tobacco, and are used because the seller can see the buyer in person and compare them to the photo. Much quicker than the shop running an electronic ID check every time someone buys a packet of fags.

Casinos CANNOT compare the photo on a document to the person who emailed it in, so they don't really need a photo on the documentation, it being formal government issued should be enough. They may argue that without a photo they can't tell that the person sending the documentation hasn't stolen it, but they can't tell this even WITH a photo because they are looking at an email, not the player's face, as they hand it over.
 
Most casinos give me a pass on the photo ID


KYC.webp
 
This is because the bank would have used the system we have here in the UK, electronic verification via one of the credit reference agencies as well as cross checking against other data sources. The most important thing for this to work is to be registered on the electoral roll at your current address, as this is compulsory. It also helps a great deal to have had credit in the past so that a credit history has been built up.

Citizen card, and other photo documents, are used at shops when buying alcohol and tobacco, and are used because the seller can see the buyer in person and compare them to the photo. Much quicker than the shop running an electronic ID check every time someone buys a packet of fags.

Casinos CANNOT compare the photo on a document to the person who emailed it in, so they don't really need a photo on the documentation, it being formal government issued should be enough. They may argue that without a photo they can't tell that the person sending the documentation hasn't stolen it, but they can't tell this even WITH a photo because they are looking at an email, not the player's face, as they hand it over.

I know and I think we are saying the same thing, however the banks still require ID along with electronic verification, and they can accept non photo ID if someone doesn't have it. My point being if a bank can for a loan of 100k then a casino certainly can for a withdrawal of £50. Any who refuse are just being awkward and should be removed from any accredited list as there is no reason. Photo ID means nothing really, if someone is in the business of laundering money then I'm sure they can get a fake driving licence, and, as you say, what does the photo prove? :eek:
 
I know and I think we are saying the same thing, however the banks still require ID along with electronic verification, and they can accept non photo ID if someone doesn't have it. My point being if a bank can for a loan of 100k then a casino certainly can for a withdrawal of £50. Any who refuse are just being awkward and should be removed from any accredited list as there is no reason. Photo ID means nothing really, if someone is in the business of laundering money then I'm sure they can get a fake driving licence, and, as you say, what does the photo prove? :eek:

There is a list of acceptable forms of ID set out by the government, and this list caters for the fact that we don't have a universal photo ID system. There is a list A for people with photo ID, and a list B for those without. List B has a couple more documents than A due to the lack of a photo document. What they are looking for is enough documentation from independent sources to be pretty sure there is no fraud. This can be done without a photo ID, as after all, the process of getting a photo ID begins with a set of non-photo paper documents. It also helps to already have an account with the bank you are asking to lend you £100K, because they would then have their own dataset on you, and they would have to have verified you in the past in order to give you the account.

I have several bank accounts and cards, and I have yet to be asked to scan and email my driving license or passport. One step they DO take that casinos don't is that an online application is followed by them sending out the agreement by post to the address I gave them, and only when I have signed it and sent it back am I considered "verified" and the account or card opened. This is one way casinos could verify an address, and it would give them more control than relying on an energy supplier's bill that could be faked. The casino would just need to have a unique code in the letter that can only be discovered by receiving it in the post, and only when the player gave this code to the casino would they have the address verified. A fraudster could fake one of these letters, but it wouldn't have the correct code, so would fail. A couple of casinos in the past actually used such a method. I had this at Intercasino (and other Cryptologic sites) and the Lasseters/Ausvegas brands.
 

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