Can someone shed some light on accruing bonus rounds?

[Drew32]

I read somewhere just now that the more you play on a specific game/online bookie, the more your odds of getting bonus rounds improves i.e. you gain 'credit' which makes bonus rounds more likely the more you bet/spend.

Which makes sense, I suppose.

But I also read that this 'credit' disappears if you take a play break of a few weeks or more.

Anyone care ot comment?

 

[paul7388]

I read somewhere just now that the more you play on a specific game/online bookie, the more your odds of getting bonus rounds improves i.e. you gain 'credit' which makes bonus rounds more likely the more you bet/spend.

Which makes sense, I suppose.

But I also read that this 'credit' disappears if you take a play break of a few weeks or more.

Anyone care ot comment?

Yeah i will comment.

Not sure where you read it but that's a load of crap. Only slots that trigger a bonus after so many scatters collected etc. will trigger a bonus the more you play but vast majority do not work like that.

 

[Jono777]

What he says ^^^

Been playing on and off since 2003 and still not had my bonus round yet!

 

[goatwack]

It's fair to say that's not the case. Bonus rounds aren't accrued, they pop up at random intervals, hence their addictive nature.

You're just as likely to go an eternity without seeing one, whilst other times they come in batches. Yet as for any 'storing' of them, that's a no, neither is 'bonus credit' built up.

Be bloody great if it was though

Only thing that builds up as it were is the likelihood of getting closer to a bonus if playing longer, through mathematical probability, unless having a particularly barren run. Most games, depending on their volatility, will have an average bonus frequency, so expect it within that realm

 

[Drew32]

This seems odd tbh. The other place I read this is full of people who comment that it is absolutely obvious that bookies have influence on the scarcity/regularity of bonus rounds. For example, and this is something we all agreed upon, after a number big win on bonus rounds, in short succession, we found that there was always a large barren patch that immediately followed.

 

[winner2021]

The only thing I can think of somewhat like that are the slots like 333 fat frogs where you collect tokens and it edges you closer to a bonus round (at least that's what it looks like) but I've got like 33 free spins x8 waiting to trigger on that slot and it's no nearer to triggering that it ever was...it just tricks you into thinking it must be close. If I ever do trigger them I'll come back and let you know

 

[jasonuk]

Big wall of text incoming... you have been warned!

--

So there are two very distinct cases here - slots with stored value and slots without stored value.

The latter is the easy one, and the default scenario people think of. No stored value means every spin is independent and random. No memory, no problem.

The former is the interesting and more relevant one here - but we need to split games into three parts:

The Fakes

• Slots that infer store value, but are lying or misleading - and will explicitly state as such in the game rules, using nonsensical statements like "purely for visual entertainment"
• Examples include many "three pots" games - although for clarity, 333 Fat Frogs mentioned above is half and half - the "growth" of the frog is fake (the nonsensical statement above is actually from that slot), but the collection part could be "real" depending on whether the slot adapts to the bonus trigger or not.

The Unlockables

• Slots that unlock - whether temporarily or permanently - a different or enhanced game mode.
• This may include a marginal increase in RTP, but often is a change in volatility instead.
• Examples include the IGT "Level Up" series, Microgaming's Immortal Romance, Push Gaming's Wild Swarm 2 and Red Tiger's Dynamite Riches

The Collectables

• Slots that allow a player to build up / collect stored value - whether that be progress saved on the reels (e.g. persisting wilds or scatters), progress towards a bonus round (whether guaranteed or not), or money to a genuine progressive pot.
• This will - assuming the provider has done their maths properly - be fully costed into the RTP, so any adjustments to stake or playstyle should be accounted for.
• The amount of RTP attributable to the collection can vary - some will be under 1%, some can be more than 10%
• The duration of the collection can similarly vary - some will be linked spins (so next 1-5 spins) and some can be over thousands of spins.
• There is a risk of permanent RTP loss here - providers can expire stored value after a period of time (e.g. 180 days), or operators can make system-level changes that cause a reset (RTP change, platform migration, account closure).
• Examples include NetEnt's retired Big Bang (for those old enough to remember), BTG's Kingmaker, Red Tiger's Jewel Scarabs and Relax's Book of 99

There is a lot of energy in this space, particularly from providers and streamers alike trying to infer behaviour that isn't true. Anyone who has listened to streamers "build up" a Wild Swarm bonus by betting bigger inferring they have an advantage - ignoring the game rules which point out it's a different maths model with a 0.1% RTP increase (so unlock, rather than collection).

That's not to say providers haven't got it wrong either - The Dark Knight Rises and Street Fighter II dropped absolute clangers where they forgot to (in the former) or incorrectly (in the latter) apply stake averaging - which caused a significant increase in RTP as a result. They don't happen often with all the testing going on now-a-days, but happy days when they do

 

[don17740]

The only thing I can think of somewhat like that are the slots like 333 fat frogs where you collect tokens and it edges you closer to a bonus round (at least that's what it looks like) but I've got like 33 free spins x8 waiting to trigger on that slot and it's no nearer to triggering that it ever was...it just tricks you into thinking it must be close. If I ever do trigger them I'll come back and let you know

I realize this thread is a bit old, but if would see this I would love to know what's happened with 333 fat frogs since your last post.
I'm asking because I'm not sure I've ever been more disgusted with a slot before. Probably $200 into it and still not a single frog has popped. The damn frogs are so fat they barely fit on the screen but they continue to just inhale chips like Joey Chestnut at the Nathens hot dog eating contest and all I get is BURRPPPP

 

[winner2021]

@don17740 I gave up playing! I used to get free spins for it but I don't anymore so I just forgot it existed haha. I think I decided the next time I have a big win I'll do £5 spins on it and see if I can trigger a humongous bonus but I don't think it's worth it. And I'm trying to cut down my slotting now. Also I had misunderstood how the bonus works so I wouldn't have got as many as 33 free spins x8 anyway-at least that's what I gathered from last time I played it.

Sorry you had a bad time on it, it really takes a crazy amount of spins to trigger a bonus round.

 

[don17740]

The only thing I can think of somewhat like that are the slots like 333 fat frogs where you collect tokens and it edges you closer to a bonus round (at least that's what it looks like) but I've got like 33 free spins x8 waiting to trigger on that slot and it's no nearer to triggering that it ever was...it just tricks you into thinking it must be close. If I ever do trigger them I'll come back and let you know

@don17740 I gave up playing! I used to get free spins for it but I don't anymore so I just forgot it existed haha. I think I decided the next time I have a big win I'll do £5 spins on it and see if I can trigger a humongous bonus but I don't think it's worth it. And I'm trying to cut down my slotting now. Also I had misunderstood how the bonus works so I wouldn't have got as many as 33 free spins x8 anyway-at least that's what I gathered from last time I played it.

Sorry you had a bad time on it, it really takes a crazy amount of spins to trigger a bonus round.

I appreciate you responding. I think I'm going to try to forget about it too because right now I'm fighting the urge to give it another shot and surely a bonus will trigger haha. Thanks again for the update.

 

[winner2021]

According to this vid you can trigger the bonuses together, so it would be possible to get 33 spins x8 multiplier. But I'll bet that never happens. I mainly seem to end up triggering the jackpot bonus and just get the mini. All the comments are saying the same that they're on 30 spins x10 and it just never triggers


Oh no I just realised I think I closed the account I was playing that slot on anyway so I guess that's that!

 

[Reelsoffun]

Anyone who plays those 3 pop the feature type needs their head testing, they never end well, awful games and the sooner people stop playing them the sooner we won’t be subjected to every other new game being that type.

If you didn’t realise, I’m not a fan LOL

 

[Kiara Advani]

I am a big fan of this

 

[Reelsoffun]

I realize this thread is a bit old, but if would see this I would love to know what's happened with 333 fat frogs since your last post.
I'm asking because I'm not sure I've ever been more disgusted with a slot before. Probably $200 into it and still not a single frog has popped. The damn frogs are so fat they barely fit on the screen but they continue to just inhale chips like Joey Chestnut at the Nathens hot dog eating contest and all I get is BURRPPPP

I know someone that is currently in for over £800 on mostly 40p spins and still not popped 1 frog since the first £20 played in, like I said awful games and people will do well to stay well clear……

 

[Reelsoffun]

I am a big fan of this

Good for you, you must be the only one that’s a fan or winning on them?

 

[michalmarci98]

I read somewhere just now that the more you play on a specific game/online bookie, the more your odds of getting bonus rounds improves i.e. you gain 'credit' which makes bonus rounds more likely the more you bet/spend.

Which makes sense, I suppose.

But I also read that this 'credit' disappears if you take a play break of a few weeks or more.

Anyone care ot comment?

I would probably say the opposite, you’re more likely to get a “bonus” or a “scatter” if you have just got into gambling rather than been doing it a while.

I found scatters / bonuses are more frequent if you haven’t spun for quite a while… seems to me like they want to incentivise you to gamble… another trick I found it is always change around how you spin and the amounts and when you withdraw / carry on chasing.

 

[racingcat]

when playing with legit casinos every spin is random and the past spins/session have zero influence on the outcome of the next spin.
casinos make easy money with its customers so it doesnt make any sense to rig their games and risk getting shut down

 

[Milaroy]

Most of the time, that whole idea is a bit of a myth. Slots at proper, licensed casinos run on something called RNG (Random Number Generator), which basically means every spin is totally random. The game doesn’t keep track of how much you’ve played, how much you’ve lost, or how long you’ve been spinning. Each spin is a fresh start. So there’s no secret system where the odds get better the more you play — it doesn’t work like that. It’s all math and chance.

 

[PersistentEdge]

Big wall of text incoming... you have been warned!

--

So there are two very distinct cases here - slots with stored value and slots without stored value.

The latter is the easy one, and the default scenario people think of. No stored value means every spin is independent and random. No memory, no problem.

The former is the interesting and more relevant one here - but we need to split games into three parts:

The Fakes

• Slots that infer store value, but are lying or misleading - and will explicitly state as such in the game rules, using nonsensical statements like "purely for visual entertainment"
• Examples include many "three pots" games - although for clarity, 333 Fat Frogs mentioned above is half and half - the "growth" of the frog is fake (the nonsensical statement above is actually from that slot), but the collection part could be "real" depending on whether the slot adapts to the bonus trigger or not.

The Unlockables

• Slots that unlock - whether temporarily or permanently - a different or enhanced game mode.
• This may include a marginal increase in RTP, but often is a change in volatility instead.
• Examples include the IGT "Level Up" series, Microgaming's Immortal Romance, Push Gaming's Wild Swarm 2 and Red Tiger's Dynamite Riches

The Collectables

• Slots that allow a player to build up / collect stored value - whether that be progress saved on the reels (e.g. persisting wilds or scatters), progress towards a bonus round (whether guaranteed or not), or money to a genuine progressive pot.
• This will - assuming the provider has done their maths properly - be fully costed into the RTP, so any adjustments to stake or playstyle should be accounted for.
• The amount of RTP attributable to the collection can vary - some will be under 1%, some can be more than 10%
• The duration of the collection can similarly vary - some will be linked spins (so next 1-5 spins) and some can be over thousands of spins.
• There is a risk of permanent RTP loss here - providers can expire stored value after a period of time (e.g. 180 days), or operators can make system-level changes that cause a reset (RTP change, platform migration, account closure).
• Examples include NetEnt's retired Big Bang (for those old enough to remember), BTG's Kingmaker, Red Tiger's Jewel Scarabs and Relax's Book of 99

There is a lot of energy in this space, particularly from providers and streamers alike trying to infer behaviour that isn't true. Anyone who has listened to streamers "build up" a Wild Swarm bonus by betting bigger inferring they have an advantage - ignoring the game rules which point out it's a different maths model with a 0.1% RTP increase (so unlock, rather than collection).

That's not to say providers haven't got it wrong either - The Dark Knight Rises and Street Fighter II dropped absolute clangers where they forgot to (in the former) or incorrectly (in the latter) apply stake averaging - which caused a significant increase in RTP as a result. They don't happen often with all the testing going on now-a-days, but happy days when they do

This is a very good way of separating them, particularly the distinction between genuine collectables and progress that is basically just visual theatre.

The part I've spent most of my time testing starts one step after this.

Once you've established that the stored state is genuine, there are several other questions that become important in an online implementation:

• Is that state attached to the player/session rather than to the balance that created it?
• Does it survive a reconnect?
• Does it survive a stake change?
• What exactly causes it to reset or be consumed?
• And, particularly interesting to me, what happens if the state was accumulated while the player was using promotional funds and subsequent play is made from cash balance?

In my testing I've found that the game-state layer and the wallet/balance layer are not always the same thing operationally.

That's why I don't consider “persistent” on its own enough to make a game interesting. I've tested thousands of games over the years and a huge number get discarded because the stored state is fake, economically irrelevant, resets under the wrong conditions, or simply can't be used in a meaningful way.

The interesting ones are where the state is genuine, survives the relevant transition and reaches a point where its current state is materially different from a fresh one.

Your point about stake averaging is also very relevant here — once stored value exists, the implementation details matter enormously.

Have you ever looked specifically at how these states behave across bonus/cash wallet transitions? That's the area I've found surprisingly inconsistent between games and implementations.

 

[hubbadubbadingdong]

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