Can a casino set its own RTP on a game or is it down to the manufacturer ?

[ESCJAMIE]

I only ask as I find with many games such as Danger high voltage when it first came out I was seeing massive wins everywhere from the bonus, But past few months its seems to be dead every bonus round I get its awful and the wins arnt as big or as common now days. Is it just a myth casinos make RTP high on new games then lower it or is it just the fact the "new" slots are now "old" and less popular so less wins being shared

 

[lockinlove]

seen a tonne of streamers talking about this saying its been dead for months. I dont see wins or anything anywhere really anymore. Seems they nuked the slot.

 

[goatwack]

I think it's only fair people give this billions of spins before making judgement etc etc

 

[Jono777]

lol^^

you'll be told NO, I'll be ridiculed for this post...

I believe they CAN set every slot per casino BUT only a specific range (IE: they can't dial it down to 10% like most sessions seems)

I posted this years ago (or something similar) got laughed off the stage and then oh dear, The Play N Go fiasco appeared, revealing that I was right all along

I'd say they can set between say 90% and 97% as very rough examples.

As for DHV! - Not one of BTG's slots plays as their original / first release versions did. I'd put this down to greed and popularity but being new in the markets, who knows if BTG were losing money when they first started out with the huge hits we were seeing pretty much daily ???????

 

[ESCJAMIE]

lol^^

you'll be told NO, I'll be ridiculed for this post...

I believe they CAN set every slot per casino BUT only a specific range (IE: they can't dial it down to 10% like most sessions seems)

I posted this years ago (or something similar) got laughed off the stage and then oh dear, The Play N Go fiasco appeared, revealing that I was right all along

I'd say they can set between say 90% and 97% as very rough examples.

As for DHV! - Not one of BTG's slots plays as their original / first release versions did. I'd put this down to greed and popularity but being new in the markets, who knows if BTG were losing money when they first started out with the huge hits we were seeing pretty much daily ???????

Wouldn't this be publicly available thou cause if you got it to games info it states the RTP on the game it self surely if they was able to change it wouldn't they be updating the RTP stated, I wonder if the gambling commission would tell you.

 

[samikk]

This is the topic which creates a lot of emotions for some members of this forum. Be ready for a shitstorm @ESCJAMIE.

"Shut up! It's all random!" someone could say...

These BTG slots can be stone cold for ages and I think you're right about this DHV slot. It's not even cold nowadays, it's totally dead. There's no point to play it anymore, because it's way too hard to get that decent win to make a profit.

 

[eizei]

I've seen some very big wins on DHV including by streamers in the past month and haven't done too bad myself. I think we go through this with almost every highly volatile release. At first you have tons of people playing so you're gonna see a lot of big wins and then over time the brutal high variance starts hitting more and more people, even those who initially won big, and people are inevitably going to play it less and then we get threads about how games were paying more at release. Sounds extremely unlikely that an RTP much less than advertised or option to change it would be able to slip by the independent testing these games go through or that providers, casinos and testers are all in on some grand conspiracy. I mean if a slot was actually a 93% RTP game instead of 96% that it's advertised to be the casinos (especially the big ones) would quickly notice this. So if you wanted to release such a scam slot you would have to have every single casino that it's playable at in on it on top of fooling the regulators and testers and that sounds extremely unrealistic. I've also never heard of a case where RTP was listed as one number but was proven to be another from any of the providers around today. I think once you start putting together what actually needs to happen to make a conspiracy such as this plausible it just fall apart very quickly.

In my mind there's no doubt all of this mostly stems from how human brains work. We're incredibly good at recognising patterns which comes with the downside of having a really hard time dealing with randomness. You see this not just in gambling but in everyday life. Something terrible happens and people have the need to assign a reason or a cause other than pure randomness even when that is clearly the case. I think everyone has heard countless such statements about slots too as in how 1,2 draws never land, last spin of bonus never pays, lowering/raising bet affecting gameplay etc. Imo this is all just people seeing patterns where there are none because our brains are wired to look for them.

 

[dunover]

It depends on if you're an affiliate or not - if you don't get 'affiliate RTP' then you'll see less big wins.

 

[rena35]

So the people who suspected that a casino was cheating and it turned out they were, was imagining things ? Cleared it up for me thanks. The blacklist is there for a reason and some casinos have been caught and thrown in the pit.



Then again i can only play at certain casinos so I can't speak on all of them.

 

[goatwack]

It depends on if you're an affiliate or not - if you don't get 'affiliate RTP' then you'll see less big wins.

F**k Affiliate RTP, you're on Dunover RTP

 

[Jono777]

All this time, We assumed his username to be aimed towards himself........

 

[goatwack]

All this time, We assumed his username to be aimed towards himself........

Richie Rich was already copyrighted

 

[trancemonkey]

lol^^

you'll be told NO, I'll be ridiculed for this post...

I believe they CAN set every slot per casino BUT only a specific range (IE: they can't dial it down to 10% like most sessions seems)

I posted this years ago (or something similar) got laughed off the stage and then oh dear, The Play N Go fiasco appeared, revealing that I was right all along

I'd say they can set between say 90% and 97% as very rough examples.

As for DHV! - Not one of BTG's slots plays as their original / first release versions did. I'd put this down to greed and popularity but being new in the markets, who knows if BTG were losing money when they first started out with the huge hits we were seeing pretty much daily ???????

Jono.... Why would you be ridiculed? You're right.

Every games provider will make their games with however many RTP variants they desire. The more they offer the more costs they incur but I would imagine most games are offered with a few different RTPs. I would doubt any go lower than 90% with the lowest one but I've not seen any online lower than 91...

Each casino can choose which version of the RTP to offer it's players. Of course the RTP must be stated so you will know if it's changed.

 

[trancemonkey]

I only ask as I find with many games such as Danger high voltage when it first came out I was seeing massive wins everywhere from the bonus, But past few months its seems to be dead every bonus round I get its awful and the wins arnt as big or as common now days. Is it just a myth casinos make RTP high on new games then lower it or is it just the fact the "new" slots are now "old" and less popular so less wins being shared

There are no wins to share.. they aren't compensated. But yes a casino could change the RTP to a lower one if the games provider has created a range of RTP options

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

This discussion actually makes sense. Remember the good old philosophy u win big at a casino. Make sure to withdraw and bank ur winnings. Then we say make deposit somewhere else don't play here for a while as you just won. I have done that multiple times won big one casino then spunked it 3 other casinos.

From now on if we do well at certain slot at a casino then maybe its wise to carry on here. Play certain slots at casinos we get best results at as could be RTP is set highest these places? I would expect casino groups has same rtp set across the brands but who knows

Casinos do list their RTP would be cool with a full overview of all accredited casinos with rtp set for each software (i mean where highest rtp is for different software providers)

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

It depends on if you're an affiliate or not - if you don't get 'affiliate RTP' then you'll see less big wins.

You mean Twitch/Youtube(special bonus special bons special bonus) streamer affiliate

 

[dunover]

Jono.... Why would you be ridiculed? You're right.

Every games provider will make their games with however many RTP variants they desire. The more they offer the more costs they incur but I would imagine most games are offered with a few different RTPs. I would doubt any go lower than 90% with the lowest one but I've not seen any online lower than 91...

Each casino can choose which version of the RTP to offer it's players. Of course the RTP must be stated so you will know if it's changed.

Oh dear TranceM! Let me tell you I have numerous Playtechs in the 89-91% range in my data....in fact there was a recent one I added which was 91.40% White Lion 2, and those Top Trumps ones could be offered at 88-96%.

 

[nikantw]

.... but I've not seen any online lower than 91.....

Mega Moolah 89% .... and more

 

[nikantw]

I only ask as I find with many games such as Danger high voltage when it first came out I was seeing massive wins everywhere from the bonus, But past few months its seems to be dead every bonus round I get its awful and the wins arnt as big or as common now days. Is it just a myth casinos make RTP high on new games then lower it or is it just the fact the "new" slots are now "old" and less popular so less wins being shared

I have seen lower RTP with Play n Go and Pragmatic.
Also with MG but can't be sure about that because they don't have the RTP in the info file.

I think you can always trust Netent. They always have the RTP in the info.
When you see a Play n Go game without the RTP in the info file, that casino has lower RTP settings.
It is especially hard to find out the RTP of some providers in most casinos.

I have no idea about BTG and specifically DHV because I hate it and never had a spin on it even in fun mode.

 

[trancemonkey]

Oh dear TranceM! Let me tell you I have numerous Playtechs in the 89-91% range in my data....in fact there was a recent one I added which was 91.40% White Lion 2, and those Top Trumps ones could be offered at 88-96%.

Well you have far more info than me on this... I wonder if any of them actually use them live other than in some dodgy foreign casinos...

Thanks for correcting me

 

[dunover]

Well you have far more info than me on this... I wonder if any of them actually use them live other than in some dodgy foreign casinos...

Thanks for correcting me

Well White King 2 was sourced from BGO!! (Sorry I called it White Lion by mistake and I even mis-remembered the RTP, it's even worse than I said!)

It's shocking really! LOOK!

 

[dunover]

.

 

[NeverLucky]

Jono.... Why would you be ridiculed? You're right.

Every games provider will make their games with however many RTP variants they desire. The more they offer the more costs they incur but I would imagine most games are offered with a few different RTPs. I would doubt any go lower than 90% with the lowest one but I've not seen any online lower than 91...

Each casino can choose which version of the RTP to offer it's players. Of course the RTP must be stated so you will know if it's changed.

The one major gripe i have with this is:
How many People do actually check the Paytable to see if the RTP is the same as on other sites? I would guess that quite a few people if not even the majority of players do not know that some providers even offer different RTP options. They see Book of Dead on two sites and -- rightfully so -- expect it to be the same Game. Only one might be running on a lowered RTP which might make them not wanna play the Game.

 

[lockinlove]

I would like to see rtp displayed on all sites. I think videoslots has the highest rtp on all their slots. And I remember BTG played better for me at videoslots than betsson.

I cant remember the exact stats but I believe BTG slots rtp for me were 98% on videoslots and on Betsson they were 84% with approx the same amount of spins. Which was approx 250,000 each.

After i got those stats I closed my betsson account because I believe their rtp was set lower.

Oh and now I know why white king was horrific every time I played it

 

[irish-ranger]

After all it's called gambling and not winning
The edge will always be with the house /provider r who ever else has a stake in the game.
Unless we win a major progessive jackpot we will always chase our tails and blame everything other than just pure bad luck for not winning, obviously the exception being those who choose to play at rogue casinos.

Cheers
Ranger

 

[nikantw]

Keep in mind that a bad month is not proof of lower RTP settings. If I can have 100% after 34,000 spins on a 89% game, 80% or 70% over 100,000 spins on a 96% one is much easier.

I just wish more accredited casinos had a tool like this.

 

[PaaskeDenmark]

Keep in mind that a bad month is not proof of lower RTP settings. If I can have 100% after 34,000 spins on a 89% game, 80% or 70% over 100,000 spins on a 96% one is much easier.

View attachment 94872

I just wish more accredited casinos had a tool like this.

Does this rtp stats actually work at videoslots?? mine seems all over the places no matter what slot i look at. And searching does not show anything correctly...

Examples are like Vikings go Wild my rtp is 1970.00%

and in Divine Fortune its 3.71% overall I know these figures in no way is correct. Reason i am asking also when we play freerolls surely that will mess up those figures unless only real play counts.

 

[nikantw]

Does this rtp stats actually work at videoslots?? mine seems all over the places no matter what slot i look at. And searching does not show anything correctly...

Examples are like Vikings go Wild my rtp is 1970.00%

and in Divine Fortune its 3.71% overall I know these figures in no way is correct. Reason i am asking also when we play freerolls surely that will mess up those figures unless only real play counts.

There are some problems, like results not loading or fs with wrong RTP. But most times it works fine.
Besides you can track each spin with this and do the calculations by yourself to check it out.
Go to "view", set period of time and look the seasons below.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Exactly my RTP on videoslots seems to be VERY out

 

[nikantw]

Exactly my RTP on videoslots seems to be VERY out

For real? I mean did you calculate your seasons RTP from your wagering and total payouts and then saw what "my rtp" is saying for that season and it was very different?
You can also calculate the RTP using your wagering and your loss.

The reason I ask for this is that 2% lower RTP means half playtime, so it is impossible to caculate RTP based on a "feeling".
And if we go to VS and say "I feel it is way off" they will think we are just problem gamblers (that is how all CS agents are advised to respond to claims of low RTP) and do nothing.
But if we have evidence that it is indeed way off, then there is a chance they will fix whatever the problem is.

 

[ESCJAMIE]

Yeah for example I play Bonanaza alot and get good wins from it on base and bonus but somehow it says

Bonanza 36.47% RTP

I mean thats seems very low.

 

[nikantw]

Yeah for example I play Bonanaza alot and get good wins from it on base and bonus but somehow it says

Bonanza 36.47% RTP

I mean thats seems very low.

Ok, can you post a pic? This is mine

You can adjust the dates and see how the numbers change and if it makes sense.
Then you can scroll down and press "view" to your latest season to see how it was. You can calculate RTP simply by asking support about your wagering, as long as you have starting / end balance.

 

[trancemonkey]

The one major gripe i have with this is:
How many People do actually check the Paytable to see if the RTP is the same as on other sites? I would guess that quite a few people if not even the majority of players do not know that some providers even offer different RTP options. They see Book of Dead on two sites and -- rightfully so -- expect it to be the same Game. Only one might be running on a lowered RTP which might make them not wanna play the Game.

#sarcasm_on

Just like when you see two Audi A4's next to each other - you expect them to be the same car right? You certainly don't expect that one might have a better a better engine than the other - i mean Audi should only supply one engine size for an A4 right? And god help if they have different things inside... i mean, all cars should come with exactly the same spec right?

#sarcasm_off

 

[dunover]

they look the same,

#sarcasm_on

Just like when you see two Audi A4's next to each other - you expect them to be the same car right? You certainly don't expect that one might have a better a better engine than the other - i mean Audi should only supply one engine size for an A4 right? And god help if they have different things inside... i mean, all cars should come with exactly the same spec right?

#sarcasm_off

Yes, take Bonanza - I get the supercharged twin-turbo 2.0i version with leather upholstery and 196 brake whereas Jono gets the 2.0d with nylon seat covers and 150 brake.

Actually it's not a great analogy as to buy my model you'd have to pay more than Jono's and you can immediately see they're different, whereas in slots they look the same, people pay the same a spin and expect the same product.

 

[trancemonkey]

they look the same,


Yes, take Bonanza - I get the supercharged twin-turbo 2.0i version with leather upholstery and 196 brake whereas Jono gets the 2.0d with nylon seat covers and 150 brake.

Actually it's not a great analogy as to buy my model you'd have to pay more than Jono's and you can immediately see they're different, whereas in slots they look the same, people pay the same a spin and expect the same product.

Only it IS a good analogy, because they are playing at completely different casinos.

If i go in to Waitrose, i will likely pay more for a loaf of Warburtons than if i go in to Tesco and buy it - they are identical products, but one is more expensive than the other. The consumers know this, so it's their choice. So if i go to one casino, why should the expectation be that it will "cost me" (in terms of RTP) the same as at another when this simply doesn't happen in life. It's why we have so many price comparison sites....

To say every casino should run the exact same game is just nonsensical i'm afraid and would create an unfair playing field. It should be, as it is, up to each casino to decide what RTP they run the games at. The RTP's are displayed in all UKGC licenced casinos. It's down to the player to decide whether he's happy with it.

Now you could argue that it should be easier to find this out, but that's a different conversation...

It would be great if someone could keep an active list of the RTP of every game at every site.... the ultimate casino comparison site...

 

[dunover]

Only it IS a good analogy, because they are playing at completely different casinos.

If i go in to Waitrose, i will likely pay more for a loaf of Warburtons than if i go in to Tesco and buy it - they are identical products, but one is more expensive than the other. The consumers know this, so it's their choice. So if i go to one casino, why should the expectation be that it will "cost me" (in terms of RTP) the same as at another when this simply doesn't happen in life. It's why we have so many price comparison sites....

To say every casino should run the exact same game is just nonsensical i'm afraid and would create an unfair playing field. It should be, as it is, up to each casino to decide what RTP they run the games at. The RTP's are displayed in all UKGC licenced casinos. It's down to the player to decide whether he's happy with it.

Now you could argue that it should be easier to find this out, but that's a different conversation...

It would be great if someone could keep an active list of the RTP of every game at every site.... the ultimate casino comparison site...

It isn't because the loaf of Warburtons looks exactly the same in whichever store you go in, as it's made by that manufacturer. Now if Warburton's decide to supply Waitrose with the usual 800g loaf and then Tesco with a 750g loaf in the same packaging, you'd expect it to be clearly marked on the packaging so you could evaluate the item BEFORE you decided to purchase it....

 

[trancemonkey]

It isn't because the loaf of Warburtons looks exactly the same in whichever store you go in, as it's made by that manufacturer. Now if Warburton's decide to supply Waitrose with the usual 800g loaf and then Tesco with a 750g loaf in the same packaging, you'd expect it to be clearly marked on the packaging so you could evaluate the item BEFORE you decided to purchase it....

And the RTP is shown to the player.... But admittedly on some games is hard to find.

We will have to agree to disagree on this one...

 

[orion]

if a casino (generally speaking, not in the UK) for some reason sets the TRTP to a lower value (let's say 91% instead of top-setting 96%), then who should take the responsability to update the "info file" in the game with the actual/real TRTP value ?

in other words, if a casino is offering 91% TRTP on a game, but the player can see 96% stated in the info pages, would be the casino or the game provider guilty of giving misleading information ?

 

[nikantw]

I think the best analogy of low RTP is 'Ocean's 8' and Cate Blanchett watering-down the vodka at a nightclub she owns.
The average player has no idea it is lower RTP (most don't even know what RTP is), just like the average cutomer at the club has no idea the vodka has water. In that case they are clearly 100% stealing the player/customer.

On the other hand, you can go to the club and ask vodka with ice (ice is water). No problem with that.
Just like a business can sell at whatever prize they want, also a player that knows the RTP is low at one casino can choose to play there or not.

The industry wants to focus on that side and say "we can discuss how easy to find RTP is".
But infomation is the key and as long as even one player has no idea what RTP is, it doesn't even matter if it is not hidden, lowering RTP means stealing.

The only way it can be ok is if you make 100% sure that the player knows. You can only do that with a big pop-up every time you login saying:
"Attention, this site operates games at a lower RTP. That means your playtime will be a lot smaller. Find out more here." And a link explains exactly what RTP is
and how it effects playtime.