Brexit - whats the difference.....

[ChopleyIOM]

'Migration' within the EU has always been a staple of the arrangement, it's how we took the perilous two-hour journey across from Europe, but those numbers increasing or decreasing in the intervening years aren't what I'd call a defining factor. 500 daily unvetted Dover arrivals, that forego the first 'safe' point of entry in search of the UK's many benefits however, 'is'

But we already had a mechanism to return asylum seekers to their original point of entry to the EU, it was called the Dublin Regulation (as shown above), and when we left the EU, we lost the Dublin Regulation as it was an EU mandate. (Y'know, all that terrible red tape and bureaucracy we were determined to escape from.)

Everyone knew what they were voting for, right?

Refugees living in northern France say Brexit has made it easier for them to reach the UK in small boats, as it emerged that record numbers of people crossed the Channel in one day.

Despite the worsening weather conditions and the UK government’s attempts to deter them, 1,185 people made the crossing on Thursday, according to the Home Office.

Refugees who have fled a variety of conflict zones including Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Eritrea told the Guardian they believed the fact the UK was no longer part of the EU made it more appealing to risk the dangerous crossings because they could no longer be sent back to other European countries under EU legislation.

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[goatwack]

But we already had a mechanism to return asylum seekers to their original point of entry to the EU, it was called the Dublin Regulation (as shown above), and when we left the EU, we lost the Dublin Regulation as it was an EU mandate. (Y'know, all that terrible red tape and bureaucracy we were determined to escape from.)

Everyone knew what they were voting for, right?

Refugees living in northern France say Brexit has made it easier for them to reach the UK in small boats, as it emerged that record numbers of people crossed the Channel in one day.

Despite the worsening weather conditions and the UK government’s attempts to deter them, 1,185 people made the crossing on Thursday, according to the Home Office.

Refugees who have fled a variety of conflict zones including Sudan, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq and Eritrea told the Guardian they believed the fact the UK was no longer part of the EU made it more appealing to risk the dangerous crossings because they could no longer be sent back to other European countries under EU legislation.

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View attachment 171127

The middle ground is somewhat lost when you call it apples and I call it oranges. I find it hard to believe that those sent on the journey even know what Brexit is. But more likely the ones that are versed in exploiting every available loophole, are, namely the people smugglers (sorry, 'facilitators').

I don't claim to believe that every single new arrival isn't escaping some form of hardship in their place of origin, but again, conflating various subsets into one neat little package and labelling them asylum seekers is disingenuous and outright naive. Because it's just as likely that many are simply weighing up the risk versus reward than escaping genuine persecution, nor is the journey provided 'for free'.

I'd also wager many are sold a promise of something they'd never attain by exploitative, unscrupulous 'facilitators', and I'd also bet many are simply coerced into doing so, under threat to them or their families?

So knowledge of 'Brexit' and its associated red tape - I don't think so. And to actually be of the belief that the current border farce isn't being exploited in any way is worrisome to say the least, as the vast majority of these arrivals are not accounted for. If that's tickety-boo to some people, then so be it

 

[ChopleyIOM]

But really, it doesn't make much difference if they know about it or not, the end result is still the same, we can't send them back because we effectively opted out of the Dublin Regulation when we left the EU.

There are many reports out there that claim it is a factor in crossings by dinghy to the UK (which have increased since Brexit, so the evidence appears to be there), but either way, the end result is the same.

Whichever way you want to try and slice it, Brexit made this worse.

Yet none of this explains why now; why so many more people are crossing the English Channel since 2019 than ever before. It is not because the water is warmer, or the waves less rough; it’s not that there is less Channel traffic, or that better rafts are being used. The one big thing that has happened, and that may play a key role in explaining the increase, is the prime minister’s

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deal.

The relevant problem with Brexit is that, in exiting the European Union, the UK left what was arguably one of the most popular immigration policies among the British public: the

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. This is an EU agreement among member states that if anyone sets foot in another EU country first, they can be returned to that country. Under the Dublin Regulation, anyone found leaving French shores to come to England could be returned as per this agreement.

The issue now is that leaving the European Union has meant

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. The government was

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by Labour during the Brexit negotiations whether the Dublin Regulation membership would be part of any deal; in essence, the government either forgot or did not take it seriously, leaving any mention of it out of the final deal – and nothing to replace it.

This matters, because the regulatory change will have been noticed. It means that, since the prime minister’s “oven-ready deal” was accepted despite having no provision for dealing with Dublin Regulation cases, anyone travelling post-Brexit to Britain will arrive without the rule in place that means they can be returned to another country in the EU. What is worse is that the government has failed to create any extradition treaties to address this matter, and so faces extra hurdles in trying to enforce returns. This has contributed to the UK’s enforced returns being at a record low.

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[ChopleyIOM]

Hang on, Nigel's back to fix it, what we need is BREXIT TWO, because the first one worked amazingly well.

It's like burning your house down, finally moving into a new house and saying, 'The problem with the old house was we didn't burn it down hard enough'.

EDIT - I just checked on The Telegraph's website to make sure this wasn't a spoof or something. It isn't.

 

[goatwack]

The first one was such a runaway success that a sequel was always going to be on the cards.

Although follow-ups are usually inferior, with some luck there'll be a third one to conclude the Brilogy

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Bloody foreigners, coming over here and looking after our old people.

I wonder why the care homes need 'rescuing' in the first place. It's a mystery, that's for sure.

 

[goatwack]

And? Is it any wonder why nobody wants to do these types of job anymore, given that young people'd rather aspire to be influencers over being a nurse or carer, with next to no financial means to sustain yourself?

Plenty of stories indicating that they're defecting to sex work aka OnlyFans and suchlike from their fledgling health care careers. That's systemic and a cultural problem, and for the life of me can't see Brexit as the cause of this, but each to their own!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The care sector rang the alarm bells on this one well in advance, what was predicted, has now come to pass.

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.

 

[goatwack]

....or a sector long in decline with a convenient Brexit badge pinned on it.

You decide

 

[bamberfishcake]

....or a sector long in decline with a convenient Brexit badge pinned on it.

You decide

Absolutely 100% right there Goatie.

The health sector has been run into the ground deliberately for thirty-odd years, maybe more, to move into privatisation.

Apparently, the NHS is mostly run through privatised contracts with US health insurers today anyway.

Brexit has naff all to do with the decline of the NHS.

 

[goatwack]

Absolutely 100% right there Goatie.

The health sector has been run into the ground deliberately for thirty-odd years, maybe more, to move into privatisation.

Apparently, the NHS is mostly run through privatised contracts with US health insurers today anyway.

Brexit has naff all to do with the decline of the NHS.

What about private care? You forget about private care

tsk

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Ahhh so we're back to the old binary states again, NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT MATE.

Both things can be true at the same time, i.e. the care sector was indeed already in crisis, with terrible rates of pay and a hugely overworked workforce, but the fact also remains that a lot of EU workers were in that sector, who are no longer. Rather than fix the sector and make it more attractive to work in, we're just going to bring in a load of low-paid foreigners to 'fix' it again.

 

[bamberfishcake]

Ahhh so we're back to the old binary states again, NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT MATE.

Both things can be true at the same time, i.e. the care sector was indeed already in crisis, with terrible rates of pay and a hugely overworked workforce, but the fact also remains that a lot of EU workers were in that sector, who are no longer. Rather than fix the sector and make it more attractive to work in, we're just going to bring in a load of low-paid foreigners to 'fix' it again.

No mate, its not back to an agenda-based or biased argument. The NHS is being privatised, Brexit or not.

It's sad and very detrimental to future generations in the UK, who will no doubt have to buy the best care. Not to mention the impact of the American model of treating rather than curing a patient's ailments, sacrificing health for profit.

Its a shame you are so blinded by Brexit you cannot agree with the facts that NHS privatisation is a result of fat cat profit-making and has nothing to do with Brexit.

 

[goatwack]

Ahhh so we're back to the old binary states again, NOTHING TO DO WITH BREXIT MATE.

Both things can be true at the same time, i.e. the care sector was indeed already in crisis, with terrible rates of pay and a hugely overworked workforce, but the fact also remains that a lot of EU workers were in that sector, who are no longer. Rather than fix the sector and make it more attractive to work in, we're just going to bring in a load of low-paid foreigners to 'fix' it again.

I'd wager that a lot of auxiliary workers' pay is anything but low, in fact often it's greater than those whose positions they're filling, and in the case of nurses etc, significantly greater.

Nor is their recruitment anything other than to paper over the cracks of a long-running problem, of which Brexit's contribution is 'negligible' at best. Lest we mention the devastation that 'little-known worldwide event' wrought on health workers.

But I guess they're just trite compared to bReXiT, after all!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

No mate, its not back to an agenda-based or biased argument. The NHS is being privatised, Brexit or not.

It's sad and very detrimental to future generations in the UK, who will no doubt have to buy the best care. Not to mention the impact of the American model of treating rather than curing a patient's ailments, sacrificing health for profit.

Its a shame you are so blinded by Brexit you cannot agree with the facts that NHS privatisation is a result of fat cat profit-making and has nothing to do with Brexit.

I didn't say Brexit has anything whatsoever to do with NHS privatisation, and most of the care sector is run privately anyway.

I honestly have no idea how you inferred that from the words I actually wrote.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I didn't say Brexit has anything whatsoever to do with NHS privatisation, and most of the care sector is run privately anyway.

I honestly have no idea how you inferred that from the words I actually wrote.

My mistake, I thought you were blaming the privatisation and decline of the NHS on Brexit

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It can't have escaped anyone's attention that the privatised water companies are poisoning the rivers, lakes and beaches of the UK with millions upon millions of gallons of raw, untreated sewage - this has left many of the UK's beaches unsafe for humans, and you certainly wouldn't want to be swimming in the sea.

Well guess what, we've been tussling with the EU over this for years, because we were bound by EU standards that we were expected to maintain. However, now that we have escaped from all that pesky EU red tape, we can poison our waterways and beaches with raw sewage whilst shareholders and directors trouser billions of pounds. Win!

 

[bamberfishcake]

It can't have escaped anyone's attention that the privatised water companies are poisoning the rivers, lakes and beaches of the UK with millions upon millions of gallons of raw, untreated sewage - this has left many of the UK's beaches unsafe for humans, and you certainly wouldn't want to be swimming in the sea.

Well guess what, we've been tussling with the EU over this for years, because we were bound by EU standards that we were expected to maintain. However, now that we have escaped from all that pesky EU red tape, we can poison our waterways and beaches with raw sewage whilst shareholders and directors trouser billions of pounds. Win!

Must admit, I don't know too much about the subject except for the headline about sewage being pumped into our waters.

Pretty shocking when you consider the amount of money they have been given over the last ten or twenty years to improve the 'leaky' network, and upgrade pipes and treatment plants.

On the face of it, this looks like something the EU wouldn't have let slide, and rightly so.

 

[mack341]

Be interesting how the EU navigate the current situation, not sure the EU central bank have raised their interest rates, as we and the US have had to do.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Dinghy update. (This is on Sky News today.)

Sunak talking about all the things he'd do to TAKE BACK CONTROL of the borders. Erm, again, presumably. We will have DOUBLE CONTROL of our borders. TAKING BACK EVEN MORE CONTROL.

Leaving the Dublin Regulation as part of Brexit not looking like such a smart move.

 

[goatwack]

Ah yes, the fingerprint database-led system that makes each member state accountable for asylum seekers within the EU.

Not much cop of course to those entering illegally in view to circumventing detection and staying off-grid, unless we're of the belief every arrival is genuine (we're back here again - hurrah!)

Also not terribly sure what one expects politicians vying for the highest position to sell to the public ?‍

"Come ye come ye, it matters not from where, for our lands are paved with gold, and overflowing with milk and honey. Fear not the wrath of men, for all are welcome to do as they please, God willing"

 

[mack341]

Maggie T seemed to have an understanding beyond the grasp of the current crop of leaders and would be leaders, and I could be wrong, but I don't remember hearing of any schemes back then of paying a 3rd country millions to act as a holding centre.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Brexit to be saved by Former Remainer Truss from Actual Brexiteer Sunak.

Just another normal day in the Daily Telegraph.

Those Brexit Benefits eh? They're definitely going to appear. Any day now. I can feel it.

 

[mack341]

The EU are worried about a Truss leadership, so that tells me everything I need to know.

What is the point of taking law making away from the people you vote in, and giving it to someone who you can't vote out or in.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The EU are worried about a Truss leadership, so that tells me everything I need to know.

What is the point of taking law making away from the people you vote in, and giving it to someone who you can't vote out or in.

There's a certain irony in that by the time this leadership contest has finished, no one except paid-up Tory party members will have cast a single vote for the two last British Prime Ministers. (0.29% of the population, fact fans.)

As for the EU being 'worried' about Truss, yeah everyone said that about Johnson too, and we all saw how that one panned out. The EU were so scared of him that they negotiated a deal that was great for them, terrible for the UK, and left the Tories so desperate for trade deal wins that they've been selling UK interests down the river ever since (for example UK farmers, with the incredibly lop-sided Australian and NZ trade deals).

And speaking of unelected bureaucrats, remind me again please who voted for the astonishingly awful Lord David Frost?

 

[dunover]

There's a certain irony in that by the time this leadership contest has finished, no one except paid-up Tory party members will have cast a single vote for the two last British Prime Ministers. (0.29% of the population, fact fans.)

As for the EU being 'worried' about Truss, yeah everyone said that about Johnson too, and we all saw how that one panned out. The EU were so scared of him that they negotiated a deal that was great for them, terrible for the UK, and left the Tories so desperate for trade deal wins that they've been selling UK interests down the river ever since (for example UK farmers, with the incredibly lop-sided Australian and NZ trade deals).

And speaking of unelected bureaucrats, remind me again please who voted for the astonishingly awful Lord David Frost?

I seem to recall Johnson winning a general election with considerably more than 0.29% of the electorate supporting him?

 

[mack341]

There's a certain irony in that by the time this leadership contest has finished, no one except paid-up Tory party members will have cast a single vote for the two last British Prime Ministers. (0.29% of the population, fact fans.)

As for the EU being 'worried' about Truss, yeah everyone said that about Johnson too, and we all saw how that one panned out. The EU were so scared of him that they negotiated a deal that was great for them, terrible for the UK, and left the Tories so desperate for trade deal wins that they've been selling UK interests down the river ever since (for example UK farmers, with the incredibly lop-sided Australian and NZ trade deals.)

And speaking of unelected bureaucrats, remind me again please who voted for the astonishingly awful Lord David Frost?

One Brussels-based diplomat gave an even more disparaging assessment: “Liz Truss would seem to us to be really, really poor from an EU point of view. What she has shown, since she’s taken over as foreign secretary, and as she’s taken over the Brexit negotiations, has just been very negative.”

I hope she can drive a harder bargain with the EU.

Re Lord Frost, you can say the same about any appointee, and his performance, good or bad, attaches to the govt under which he was appointed, so it has a direct link back to elections and democracy.

Unelected Derry Irvine, Tony blair's old barrister boss, served as Lord chancellor from 97 to 2003, so it's not unique.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I seem to recall Johnson winning a general election with considerably more than 0.29% of the electorate supporting him?

Sorry my mind has tried to blank his entire existence in an effort to make the world a more palatable place.

We did of course go from:

Cameron - May
May - Johnson
Johnson - Truss

as Prime Minister without a general election, although May and Johnson did go on to win general elections. (Not very well, in May's case.) I can't see Truss repeating the feat.

Then again Brown did take over from Blair too (and made the terrible, terrible mistake of not going for a general election quickly, which he would probably have won).

 

[ChopleyIOM]

One Brussels-based diplomat gave an even more disparaging assessment: “Liz Truss would seem to us to be really, really poor from an EU point of view. What she has shown, since she’s taken over as foreign secretary, and as she’s taken over the Brexit negotiations, has just been very negative.”

That just means they think she's shit, not that they're scared of her.

Like if you walked into a casino and every single machine was Starburst.

 

[mack341]

That just means they think she's shit, not that they're scared of her.

Like if you walked into a casino and every single machine was Starburst.

I think Liz has more of a razor shark feel

 

[mack341]

Sorry my mind has tried to blank his entire existence in an effort to make the world a more palatable place.

We did of course go from:

Cameron - May
May - Johnson
Johnson - Truss

as Prime Minister without a general election, although May and Johnson did go on to win general elections. (Not very well, in May's case.) I can't see Truss repeating the feat.

Then again Brown did take over from Blair too (and made the terrible, terrible mistake of not going for a general election quickly, which he would probably have won).

Yes and Brown didn't even have to win a vote-off from party members; Labour have not even had a single female leader yet for all their equality pronouncements and PC signalling, tories on their 3rd if Liz wins. [looking likely]

 

[mack341]

The European Union is threatened not only by the external imperialism of Russia but also by “imperialism within”, especially on the part of Germany, warns Poland’s foreign minister, Zbigniew Rau.

“The EU needs not German leadership, but German self-restraint,” Rau wrote in an article published by the Rzeczpospolita daily. He accuses Germany of seeking to increase its influence over other member states by, among other things, pushing the expansion of majority voting in the EU in place of seeking consensus.

In June, the European Parliament adopted a resolution calling for the EU treaties to be changed in order to better respond to threats. Among the measures it suggested is the abolition of veto powers on certain issues by switching from unanimity to qualified majority voting among member states.

In his view, imperialism within the EU consists of “the desire to dominate partners, impose a rationale on them, ignore their rights, interests and needs, as well as their protests”.

Earlier this month, in an essay for German newspaper Die Welt, PiS Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki warned, like Rau, that “we must defeat the threat of imperialism within the EU” as well as the external threat of Russian imperialism. He called the EU an “oligarchy in which the strongest hold power”.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So a 67 year old Polish right-winger shouting at the clouds is now where we're at with Brexit benefits is it?

I'm sure all those folks unable to go to the beach last week because they were covered with millions of gallons of literal human shit are feeling better already.

In fact checking the current beach safety map, there are still quite a few down on the South Coast that are unfit for humans. Still, old Polish man no-likey EU, take that toxic beaches!

 

[mack341]

How have we switched from 'macro' arguments by elected, polish high office holders to our underinvested and poorly run waste disposal operation. You're being ageist again as well

From the guardian 2021:

Southern

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has been fined a record £90m for deliberately dumping billions of litres of raw sewage into protected seas over several years for its own financial gain.

Mr Justice Jeremy Johnson, sentencing the privatised water company, said it had discharged between 16bn and 21bn litres of raw sewage into some of the most precious, delicate environments in the country.

“These offences show a shocking and wholesale disregard for the environment, for precious and delicate ecosystems and coastlines, for human health, and for fisheries and other legitimate businesses that operate in the coastal waters,” said the judge.

He said the company had a history of criminal activity for its “previous and persistent pollution of the environment”. It had 168 previous offences and cautions but had ignored these and not altered its behaviour. “There is no evidence the company took any notice of the penalties imposed or the remarks of the courts. Its offending simply continued,” he said.

...Since 2010 water companies have been allowed to self-report pollution incidents. [hello weren't we in the EU then?]

The investigation focused on 17 wastewater treatment works owned by the company in north Kent and Hampshire. It found between January 2010 and December 2015 the company deliberately ran its treatment works at less than their proper capacity. Instead of treating the sewage as required by law, it stored millions of litres of wastewater in storm tanks before releasing it to the seas, sometimes in discharges which lasted for weeks.

Between 2010 and 2015 there were 8,400 illegal discharges of raw sewage. The case focused on 6,971 illegal spills which amounted to 61,704 hours of releases, or a duration of seven years.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

How have we switched from 'macro' arguments by elected, polish high office holders to our underinvested and poorly run waste disposal operation. You're being ageist again as well

From the guardian 2021:

Southern

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has been fined a record £90m for deliberately dumping billions of litres of raw sewage into protected seas over several years for its own financial gain.

Mr Justice Jeremy Johnson, sentencing the privatised water company, said it had discharged between 16bn and 21bn litres of raw sewage into some of the most precious, delicate environments in the country.

“These offences show a shocking and wholesale disregard for the environment, for precious and delicate ecosystems and coastlines, for human health, and for fisheries and other legitimate businesses that operate in the coastal waters,” said the judge.

He said the company had a history of criminal activity for its “previous and persistent pollution of the environment”. It had 168 previous offences and cautions but had ignored these and not altered its behaviour. “There is no evidence the company took any notice of the penalties imposed or the remarks of the courts. Its offending simply continued,” he said.

...Since 2010 water companies have been allowed to self-report pollution incidents. [hello weren't we in the EU then?]

The investigation focused on 17 wastewater treatment works owned by the company in north Kent and Hampshire. It found between January 2010 and December 2015 the company deliberately ran its treatment works at less than their proper capacity. Instead of treating the sewage as required by law, it stored millions of litres of wastewater in storm tanks before releasing it to the seas, sometimes in discharges which lasted for weeks.

Between 2010 and 2015 there were 8,400 illegal discharges of raw sewage. The case focused on 6,971 illegal spills which amounted to 61,704 hours of releases, or a duration of seven years.

Yes, it was already bad, and now Brexit has made it even worse.

The bigger story here is the utter and total failure of the privatisation of the UK's utilities, another thing we have the Tories to thank for.

 

[mack341]

I agree the logic of privatising every utility was questionable, I think BT was okay but was it impossible for the state to run water efficiently, or did some bright sparks see the potential for guaranteed profits, water services having a monopoly on the public within an area.

EC law does not prohibit the nationalisation of undertakings. It has to be pointed out, however, that a Member State nationalising a private undertaking has to act like a private market economy operator as regards both the purchase price and the management of the nationalised undertaking. Otherwise, State aid rules (Articles 107 and 108 TFEU) would apply

 

[TheAddict]

200 pages of this

Hey! how dare you post a nasty right winger opinion. he's 67 too!

 

[mcgameboy]

So a 67 year old Polish right-winger shouting at the clouds is now where we're at with Brexit benefits is it?

I'm sure all those folks unable to go to the beach last week because they were covered with millions of gallons of literal human shit are feeling better already.

In fact checking the current beach safety map, there are still quite a few down on the South Coast that are unfit for humans. Still, old Polish man no-likey EU, take that toxic beaches!

Have you been binge watching reruns of Take Me Out today, Mr Chops Esq.?

Seriously, I thought you were better than that.....

Then again, Take Me Out was the modern day "gold standard" (PAH!!) of Saturday night entertainment for large contingents of Corbyn-worshipping pondlife.

So maybe I shouldn't be THAT shocked.

 

[interlog]

Yes, it was already bad, and now Brexit has made it even worse.

The bigger story here is the utter and total failure of the privatisation of the UK's utilities, another thing we have the Tories to thank for.

So we had polution before Brexit and after Brexit, yet it is Brexit's fault.

Lost me here

 

[dunover]

Apparently they are trying to make a huge barrier of turds in the English channel to stop the invaders from France.

 

[mcgameboy]

Apparently they are trying to make a huge barrier of turds in the English channel to stop the invaders from France.

I almost misread that by thinking you said they are trying to make a huge barrier of invaders in the English channel to stop the turds from France....

 

[TheAddict]

Was swimmin off the shore of Folkestone some 25 yearso ago. Quite a way out. I don't give a f*** what any shark attack survivor tells you, when you are in unpredictable waters and have a massive log appear out of nowhere so close to your damn face that you can count the cobbles, only then do you know what true fear feels like.

 

[dunover]

I do remember a swimming lesson in Germany when I was about 11 or 12, a proper outside 50m olympic pool and someone laid a log in it. Presumably because of support the water gave it, the thing never broke up, was floating around for about 15 minutes much to the amusement of us now rapidly-exiting kids round the edge and I swear it was nearly a foot long. It eventually broke into two sections and was 'netted' by a poor female attendant and removed. Remarkably, despite being informed several times of the magical properties of chlorination by the teachers, there was a general reluctance to re-enter the water. Many fingers were pointed, jokes made but we never got to the bottom of who was responsible.

 

[TheAddict]

If you ever find yourself in that situation with other people and the thing appears in the middle of you. I know they always say it but, as in most emergencies you really really need to keep calm. There was 5 of us and people were waving around so frantically that added with also being thrown around by the sea it made predicting what course it was on impossible. If the people you are with can't do this and most can't tbf, do what I did. Save yourself. dive down deep like a submarine, resurfacing as far away as your lungs will allow.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I'm not the biggest fan of Alan Sugar but he certainly doesn't pull his punches when it comes to Brexit.

 

[Kroffe]

Would be better if answers to questions that are just non-answer bullshit resulted in immediate hanging.
Then politicians would have to give either the 'yes' or 'no' to questions they pretty much skip now because they dont know which answer is the 'popular' answer or because they know their answer is the less popular one.

Its just painful listening to: 'Like i explained already, Its the parties and more than anything my personal goal to work towards being able to look back in the future of this present and think about what would have not happened if it did when it never should have, that is why i now and will not ever be forever exactly upfront about the many line of time required to time be done until it runs out and becomes something completely different, we can not let that happen, we WILL not let that happen.

For fucks sake Boris, not that shit again.
Do you want cheese-stuffed crust on your pizza, yes or no?

 

[dunover]

Funnily enough, thousands of invaders from France are still keen to end up on our turd-covered beaches? Perhaps they are all coprophiliacs.

 

[mack341]

I'm not the biggest fan of Alan Sugar but he certainly doesn't pull his punches when it comes to Brexit.

View attachment 171761

Michael Foot wasn't a big fan of the EU either, the fundamental flaw never changes, remainers support the EU because they feel it represents their flavour of politics, so it doesn't matter if democracy is bypassed - or worse it is a benefit as they're unable to win elections.

Look at the problems for poland, getting hit up the arse because they wanted to have some conservative judges instead of liberal ones.

The red bus said 350 million iirc could go to the NHS instead of the EU, when the net figure cost of membership was around 10 billion, so the bus should've said 200 million, does Lord [unelected] sugar really think that would've made a telling difference to the way the public voted?

It would be interesting to know why they used the gross figures for the calculations, technically could they be right? We got 5 billion back from the EU, but did they decide where it went e.g. agriculture and farmers etc..?

 

[mack341]

If the EU manage to reign in the energy prices I will give them credit, we must be getting fleeced by the markets:


The EU is planning an "emergency intervention" in the bloc's power market to curb soaring prices, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said on Monday.

"The skyrocketing electricity prices are now exposing the limitations of our current market design," she said in Slovenia. "It was developed for different circumstances. That’s why we are now working on an emergency intervention and a structural reform of the electricity market."

Austria, previously skeptical of intervention, is now vocally for it, with Chancellor Karl Nehammer on Sunday saying: "We must finally stop the madness that is taking place in energy markets ... This market will not regulate itself in its current form. I call on all the EU27 to stand together to stop this price explosion immediately."

Market mechanism

The EU’s wholesale electricity market was designed to keep prices low, but it's now achieving the opposite effect.

Part of the problem is that the price of electricity is pegged to the price of the most expensive fuel required to meet demand for each day, called the merit order, which recently has been natural gas. And with Russia’s Gazprom curbing flows — paired with other global supply chain difficulties — the price of gas has risen to eye-watering levels, sending power prices soaring.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The energy markets in the UK work on the same basic loony principle, there's a really good article explaining the system I'll link below, to say it's 'a bit of a head-scratcher' is understatement of the century.

News stories are coming in thick and fast from all over the UK now, of businesses simply giving up once their new energy bills are coming through because it becomes non-viable to continue trading.

This needs massive government intervention now to prevent tens upon tens of thousands of businesses failing this winter (businesses that pay taxes, and employ people who pay taxes). Even people who think they're financially comfortable enough to weather the storm will still be rather irked to see their favourite cafes, restaurants, pubs, hotels etc closing down.

Unless Truss does something big, and quickly, once she's in the PM's seat, this winter is going to be carnage. The markets have failed, capitalism has failed, this is a dysfunctional system and it will ravage the people and businesses of the UK without massive government intervention.

(The government here has just chucked £26m at the Manx Utilities Authority, which operates as an autonomous Statutory Board of government (it's not privatised, and it isn't allowed to make cash profits, any excess has to go back into the system), to keep energy bills fixed for six months, it doesn't sound like much but it works out to over £300 for every man, woman and child on the island, and it's only a six month measure. That's how serious this shit is going to get.)

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