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Brexit - whats the difference.....

The Brexit disaster that thusfar has been untold.

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Six months in and the news for UK business is not good, with just 6% saying their trade with the EU has increased, versus 31% saying it had decreased. (I guess the 'good news' there, if you can call it that, is that just over 50% said there had been no change.)

There's also the secondary story that a lot of UK businesses are creating EU based operations, moving jobs and tax revenue to the EU, as it's so much easier to trade within the EU than from outside it.

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Decent thread here:

 
Iron Maiden frontman Bruce Dickinson, who voted for Brexit, is frustrated that leaving the EU means that the UK is now being treated as if it has left the EU.

Exceptionalism writ large.

 
This one has been bubbling under for a couple of months already but looks as if it will shortly be coming to a head, a terrible shortage of truck drivers to keep UK supermarkets stocked, due to a mass exodus of EU drivers back to the bloc as working in the UK is now such an absolute ballache for them.

Now to be clear, no one's talking here about supermarkets literally running out of things to buy, but rather 'rolling shortages' of specific lines depending on which part of the supply chain is getting snagged up or is short of drivers at any particular time.

Also, truck drivers themselves are having a truly torrid time at the moment, particularly in Kent, which isn't exactly making it an appealing occupation.

If anyone has any good Brexit news, please feel free to add it to this thread to keep things balanced out.

(Although the Davis Downside Dossier is currently at 200 downsides versus 14 upsides, so I appreciate it might be tricky.)

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mack341 said:
The rolling good news is we don't have to do as that new bossy boots woman says, and to date this year will have not passed 5 billion net from uk tax funds to the EU for the membership fee,
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So on point (1) An entirely emotional response and incorrect since we never had to do what the 'bossy boots woman says' anyway, and on point (2) Utterly ignoring the massive hit the the UK economy has taken from Brexit that has already eclipsed every single penny we've ever paid in over the years.

This has always been, still remains, and always shall be the problem with Brexit, it collapses into nothing in the face of reality.

Project Fear becomes Project Reality, and the sunny uplands turn out to be a dingy field with an old rusty tractor in it.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
So on point (1) An entirely emotional response and incorrect since we never had to do what the 'bossy boots woman says' anyway, and on point (2) Utterly ignoring the massive hit the the UK economy has taken from Brexit that has already eclipsed every single penny we've ever paid in over the years.

This has always been, still remains, and always shall be the problem with Brexit, it collapses into nothing in the face of reality.

Project Fear becomes Project Reality, and the sunny uplands turn out to be a dingy field with an old rusty tractor in it.
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With one or two major adjustments we'd still likely be in, uk tax receipts are down more than 10 billion due to leaving?

Brexit wasn't in the main based on how well the govt would perform with the new freedoms, you want to be optimistic that they will make good decisions, also time frame. Remember too the eu is not static and will want more powers given over to it, that's just the way things have gone over the last 30 years, so why would that change, creeping centralisation.

Not being funny but I'd bet you'd personally have no interest in the iom paying the eu to part run the island, on the basis of being content with the way things are there, in reality and principle it should be no different for the mainland uk. The arguments in favour of returning don't make sense, sounds like financial blackmail seeing as we secured a free trade deal, what could be better, unless that is the eu and uk remainer civil service are making everything difficult to try to force a return, or scare others contemplating getting out.
 
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But that's an incredibly reductive way of looking at it. The IOM pays into a reciprocal health agreement with the UK, we pay into some international banking thingy I forget the name of because it's worth us being a member of it, and on that note we have to obey so many rules and regulations that we don't get to write, the phrase 'drowning in red tape' scarcely comes into it, because we're part of the international banking community.

Point is, countries around the world pay into and contribute towards all sorts of other organisations and bodies, many of which write rules that have to be followed whether you like it or not.

Let's take the much hallowed No Deal Brexit and 'WTO rules are fine for the UK', hey, there's a clue in the name, WTO Rules.

That's what modern internationalism looks like, the days of jumping into a boat and claiming a foreign land as our own are long gone, and yet Brexit somehow seems to be romanticising the 'age of empire' and that leaving the EU was a part of making the UK stronger again on the international stage, when all it's done is diminish us.

And as for whether or not the UK got a 'free trade deal', it depends what you mean by that, we got a deal free of tariffs (which works both ways of course), but we certainly didn't get a deal free of bureaucracy and red tape and customs checks and mountains of paperwork and extra expenses and inconveniences. (Hence the EU trade figures I linked above.)

And then you get clowns like Bruce Dickinson literally saying, 'I voted for Brexit and to end freedom of movement but I didn't think it'd apply to me.'
 
If you're paying a net fee out of tax for donkey's years you expect a return, in terms of living standards/quality of life attributable to what the eu have been doing in brussels, there wasn't for the average person. When you start to look at things in terms of society large problems they've been getting worse, the govt can't say our hands are tied by the eu, no more buck passing, should be better for our democracy and accountability.

That would be the same moving forward for the iom, a partnership/law sharing with the eu would unlikely result in improved quality of life, which ultimately is the point of politics and policies. [ with westminster and central govt costing a lot of money as well ]
If scotland get another indy vote, there may be strong media calls for another eu vote, I'm sure.
 
Brexit means England are now allowed to beat the Germans at football and where the f*ck are the French and Dutch and Portuguese in the Euros? I think your list of 200-bad vs. 14 good Brexit outcomes should be 200-15. It's only fair, I demand a recount. :mad:
 
Lord David Frost, our Chief EU Negotiator and architect of our amazing Oven Ready Brexit Deal, asks Elton John to do his job for him because he's really shit at it.

I mean, does it not bother anyone that this guy is clearly quite spectacularly incompetent, in over his head, and has no earthly idea what the fuck it is he's doing?

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dunover said:
Brexit means England are now allowed to beat the Germans at football and where the f*ck are the French and Dutch and Portuguese in the Euros? I think your list of 200-bad vs. 14 good Brexit outcomes should be 200-15. It's only fair, I demand a recount. :mad:
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It wasn't the most amazing game in the world but I enjoyed watching it and England deserved the win.

Pity we couldn't be as gracious in victory as some Germans were in defeat.

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ChopleyIOM said:
Lord David Frost, our Chief EU Negotiator and architect of our amazing Oven Ready Brexit Deal, asks Elton John to do his job for him because he's really shit at it.

I mean, does it not bother anyone that this guy is clearly quite spectacularly incompetent, in over his head, and has no earthly idea what the fuck it is he's doing?

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If the poor Europeans have been spared the likes of Elton John, then that's 'positive' #16 in Brexit outcomes - for them. :laugh:
 
mack341 said:
I've got a solution for the rockers, simply hire the crew and roadies from an eu member state - if the eu won't sanction the visas. Until something better can be done, frost might not be fantastic but the mps are lame too, esp facing the trickster eu, they're not playing cricket here.
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The Irish actually do have a cricket team.
 
mack341 said:
I've got a solution for the rockers, simply hire the crew and roadies from an eu member state - if the eu won't sanction the visas. Until something better can be done, frost might not be fantastic but the mps are lame too, esp facing the trickster eu, they're not playing cricket here.
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With respect mack you're missing the real problem here, big acts such as Elton John and Iron Maiden can 'money' their way through the problems, it's smaller acts that are getting absolutely shafted by this, the kind of small-mid size band/artist that travels across many countries, performing many gigs, and they take everything they need with them, and often do a lot of their own 'crew' style work as well, it simply isn't possible for them to hire the people they need on the continent, especially from one country to the next, for example a crew hired in France won't want to travel to Spain for a few gigs, being paid peanuts.

UK artists have been thrown under the bus, along with UK fishermen, UK farmers, Northern Ireland, thousands of SMEs up and down the UK, and so on - in fact, it's getting pretty crowded under that bus.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
With respect mack you're missing the real problem here, big acts such as Elton John and Iron Maiden can 'money' their way through the problems, it's smaller acts that are getting absolutely shafted by this, the kind of small-mid size band/artist that travels across many countries, performing many gigs, and they take everything they need with them, and often do a lot of their own 'crew' style work as well, it simply isn't possible for them to hire the people they need on the continent, especially from one country to the next, for example a crew hired in France won't want to travel to Spain for a few gigs, being paid peanuts.

UK artists have been thrown under the bus, along with UK fishermen, UK farmers, Northern Ireland, thousands of SMEs up and down the UK, and so on - in fact, it's getting pretty crowded under that bus.
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Ahh.... thank f*ck for ASDA who have got them!

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ChopleyIOM said:
With respect mack you're missing the real problem here, big acts such as Elton John and Iron Maiden can 'money' their way through the problems, it's smaller acts that are getting absolutely shafted by this, the kind of small-mid size band/artist that travels across many countries, performing many gigs, and they take everything they need with them, and often do a lot of their own 'crew' style work as well, it simply isn't possible for them to hire the people they need on the continent, especially from one country to the next, for example a crew hired in France won't want to travel to Spain for a few gigs, being paid peanuts.

UK artists have been thrown under the bus, along with UK fishermen, UK farmers, Northern Ireland, thousands of SMEs up and down the UK, and so on - in fact, it's getting pretty crowded under that bus.
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Fair point my mind was blinded by the light and the big names being quoted, yes it must be far more difficult for the rest compared to the previous system.
 
UK financial services joins everyone else under the bus.

Turns out the big 'Brexit Bus' wasn't just the one with the lies on the side of it, but also the one that Johnson was going to throw the UK under as part of his deal.

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Telegraph quote

Rishi Sunak has abandoned hope that Brussels will give the City access to EU markets and is instead seeking to turbocharge London's competitiveness with a post-Brexit overhaul of trading rules and a bonfire of red tape.
In his first Mansion House speech, the Chancellor admitted that his "ambition" to secure a so-called equivalence deal with the block "has not happened".
He said: "Now, we are moving forward, continuing to cooperate on questions of global finance, but each as a sovereign jurisdiction with our own priorities.
"We now have the freedom to do things differently and better, and we intend to use it fully."
 
CHOPLEY'S SPOOKY CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTION - Rishi and his mates (and his billionaire wife) will do very well out of all of this, your average person in the street, rather less so.

Also, we were a nation state democracy inside the EU. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
 
ChopleyIOM said:
CHOPLEY'S SPOOKY CRYSTAL BALL PREDICTION - Rishi and his mates (and his billionaire wife) will do very well out of all of this, your average person in the street, rather less so.

Also, we were a nation state democracy inside the EU. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
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Sorry where was the citizen's vote for Ms bossy boots, once it has a foreign policy, tax revenue, army and central bank [already] it's the united states of europe, where laws are decided in brussels. It's in the history books, a sphere of decision making protected away from the direct influence of democracy.

Edit: If rishi and billionaire pals make a mint, then i'm happy to see a 'fairer' tax applied, decided in parliament by the mps we vote for, it's the only guaranteed way the citizenry is protected, with that vote. Not the benevolence of technocrats and the corptocracy.
 
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kennygamerboy said:
I hate angela merkel she’s a piglet sorry just wanted to put that out there. Trying to enforce Spain to make Brits quarantine. She is just a complete dictator
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Well, it is a national trait....
 

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