Brexit - whats the difference.....

[thr0b]

Dan, what a load of garbage, yes i'm sure the unelected millionaires of the EU have our best interests at heart.

While our pm now has threats of prison for trying to uphold the biggest democratic vote in UK history...

Remainers - mental help required.

And there you have it. Parroting the lines of the right wing press.

We elect the EU parliament.

The UK has been at the top table for almost half a century. The laws the EU enacts were written by “us”. As I recall, we have vetoed two or three laws in total.

The PM is under threat of prison because he is hinting he may break the law, same as anyone else. Except if he breaks the law, there is a dangerous precedent. If he can break a law because he doesn’t like it, why should anyone obey the law?

 

[steveh35]

And there you have it. Parroting the lines of the right wing press.

We elect the EU parliament.

The UK has been at the top table for almost half a century. The laws the EU enacts were written by “us”. As I recall, we have vetoed two or three laws in total.

The PM is under threat of prison because he is hinting he may break the law, same as anyone else. Except if he breaks the law, there is a dangerous precedent. If he can break a law because he doesn’t like it, why should anyone obey the law?

I don't remember being asked to elect Juncker I must have missed that on the ballot paper and the new commissioner don't remember voting for her either.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Not worth wasting your breath in here. All I'll say is that if you think it's good that 2-3 countries are formulating laws and directives for other perceived 'weaker' countries to follow then you need your head checking out. And before you mention the word veto, who would veto an institution that is giving them a subsidy? So you basically accept the money and take the rules.

The EU is nothing about making ordinary folk's lives better and more prosperous and everything about devolving powers away from individual states whilst ensuring there is a continued free movement of cheap labour.

The EU is not set up for altruistic reasoning, regardless of what people like Danofthewibble think/like to make themselves believe.

 

[thr0b]

The EU Commission is much like our civil service. It operates alongside the elected parliament.

Juncker is elected by the Council, which is essentially made up of the heads of EU states, who are democratically elected by the citizens of those states.

So no, you didn’t elect him. He was elected at the will of the elected members we and every other member send.

 

[steveh35]

The EU Commission is much like our civil service. It operates alongside the elected parliament.

Juncker is elected by the Council, which is essentially made up of the heads of EU states, who are democratically elected by the citizens of those states.

So no, you didn’t elect him. He was elected at the will of the elected members we and every other member send.

As an ex civil servant I can tell you it is nothing like our civil service where you get that nonsense from I don't know.

 

[thr0b]

Or to put it another way.

If the EU is so bad, how come three years down the line no other members are even considering leaving? Including those with far more right wing governments than those we elect?

Why are other states looking to join?

We’re the laughing stock of the world, and I’d be laughing along if I didn’t have to live with it.

 

[steveh35]

Or to put it another way.

If the EU is so bad, how come three years down the line no other members are even considering leaving? Including those with far more right wing governments than those we elect?

Why are other states looking to join?

We’re the laughing stock of the world, and I’d be laughing along if I didn’t have to live with it.

see post 1253 for the answer to that

 

[steveh35]

Or to put it another way.

If the EU is so bad, how come three years down the line no other members are even considering leaving? Including those with far more right wing governments than those we elect?

Why are other states looking to join?

We’re the laughing stock of the world, and I’d be laughing along if I didn’t have to live with it.

Also all the countries wanting to join, how many are rich countries who will be paying in and how many are poor countries who will need handouts?

well let's have a look:

Bosnia
Croatia
Iceland
Serbia
Montenegro
Albania
Macedonia
Kosovo
Turkey
Scotland ( )

How many of those above are wealthy?

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[Mr_Slot5]

Or to put it another way.

If the EU is so bad, how come three years down the line no other members are even considering leaving? Including those with far more right wing governments than those we elect?

Why are other states looking to join?

We’re the laughing stock of the world, and I’d be laughing along if I didn’t have to live with it.

Because ultimately, for a lot of people, money speaks the loudest. What's a bit of national sovereignty to sacrifice for a pay out?

This is the crux of the issue and is what a lot of remainers don't understand. A significant proportion of people from the leave side couldn't give two hoots about short term financial detriment if it means we can regain our complete sovereignty. It's really only the middle and upper class elite that are frightened to death by losing even 0.1% of their wealth How will they manage.

 

[thr0b]

We might regain something. But we’ll be forever in a subservient position. We have no hand in any negotiation. We’ve a shrinking economy, little manufacturing and the sharks are circling. And they’re hungry.

And Boris is already shaking the ketchup to serve us up.

 

[dealer wins]

We might regain something. But we’ll be forever in a subservient position. We have no hand in any negotiation. We’ve a shrinking economy, little manufacturing and the sharks are circling. And they’re hungry.

And Boris is already shaking the ketchup to serve us up.

Bit like 99% of Europe then.

But hopefully when we leave we wont have to subsidise it for billions each year! Come on Boris get the job done, as per the referendum result.

 

[goatwack]

Boris'll be having a tough time trying to get Brexit through........ as he'll likely be sharing a cell with Elrod the horse-botherer, soon enough

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Best thing for Boris to do would be to call a vote of no confidence in himself or resign as PM (not party leader) and force an election. Then he needs to hope he can secure a majority.

 

[goatwack]

It was never meant long-term, pretty much just to get Brexit navigated. He wasn't elected as PM and inherited May's bonkled minority Government.....so if he's truly as boxed-in as it appears thanks to the soulless pro-EU saboteurs he might just have to fall on his sword and get the General Election motioned.

Imagine the looks on their little faces when they see their plan to bully-boy the PM and hold the country hostage backfires spectacularly

 

[steveh35]

If Boris resigns as PM does that automatically trigger an election under fixed term parliament.

Rumour early today was that if Boris ended up in court the judge is more likely to state that any government official can go to Brussels for an extensionit doesn't have to be Boris so he would not end up in jail as long as someone went to Brussels and asked.

The best hope is for one or more of the 27 to say they don't approve of an extension on 17 October.

 

[goatwack]

Not sure if resignation would have the desired effect, knowing our luck it'd be passed on to another stooge.

But a vote of No Confidence, now that's interesting.......

 

[steveh35]

Not sure if resignation would have the desired effect, knowing our luck it'd be passed on to another stooge.

But a vote of No Confidence, now that's interesting.......

Surely they will just vote for him on the premise that he is still playing games so they will not give him the satisfaction of a no confidence vote and just vote for him as they know he can't do anything.

 

[goatwack]

Haha fair point, they'll lavish him with a majority and say he's perfectly competent, the sly swines

 

[steveh35]

Haha fair point, they'll lavish him with a majority and say he's perfectly competent, the sly swines

If they all stay friends they could do this for the next 3 years and there is nothing anyone can do, though it will soon start to fall apart when the SNP and Libs want to revoke article 50 and Corbyn doesn't plus the SNP will soon be asking for another independence vote while they hold the cards and when they do it will all fall down around them.

 

[steveh35]

The state of the parties is quite interesting

Cons - need an election as they know the people's vote being ignored could give them a majority but on the flip side Tories will loses pro Eu London seats and will need to win over Northern voting leave voters.

Labour - They know they are in a bad situation and election will not bring them a majority so what they have now is adequate, they are in control as long as the other parties back them so they don't really want an election.

Lib Dems - They want an election as they know they will see a huge surge from pro EU voters they will gain many seats.

SNP - Don't need an election they have virtual total control of Scotland anyway and have no opposition.

Greens - Like the Libs will benefit from being pro EU and the current obsession people have with the environment.

So only the cons, Libs & Greens really want an election, Labour & SNP don't.

 

[paul7388]

The state of the parties is quite interesting

Cons - need an election as they know the people's vote being ignored could give them a majority but on the flip side Tories will loses pro Eu London seats and will need to win over Northern voting leave voters.

Labour - They know they are in a bad situation and election will not bring them a majority so what they have now is adequate, they are in control as long as the other parties back them so they don't really want an election.

Lib Dems - They want an election as they know they will see a huge surge from pro EU voters they will gain many seats.

SNP - Don't need an election they have virtual total control of Scotland anyway and have no opposition.

Greens - Like the Libs will benefit from being pro EU and the current obsession people have with the environment.

So only the cons, Libs & Greens really want an election, Labour & SNP don't.

The SNP actually want the election more than any of them. The SNP do not have a majority in Scotland and the election at the moment would make them gain seats where they have been losing support for last few years.

An election just now would suit them and their dream of independence .

 

[thr0b]

The SNP have a massive majority in Scotland.

They will happily prop up a Labour government as such as they want another independence referendum. And the Scots would be insane to vote to stay in the UK this time around, as they’ve been lied and played by Westminster, attempting to take them out of the EU against their will and ignoring their wishes.

Referendums. They solve nothing. They cause more problems than they’re worth. And the most recent one is breaking up the UK. Even the one specifically intended for that purpose didn’t manage that.

 

[sledge13]

Dan, it was in law that we were to leave at the end of March, which they just ignored, don't just choose the bits YOU LIKE.

 

[thr0b]

Laws can be changed. And have been.

 

[Mouche12]

and the current obsession people have with the environment.

... interesting choice of words, as if the current state of the environment doesn't merit stricter regulations.

 

[sledge13]

For a corrupt set of anti democratic remain mps yes, yet to feel the full wrath

 

[steveh35]

... interesting choice of words, as if the current state of the environment doesn't merit stricter regulations.

For many years people took no notice of the environment, Greenpeace, Green party etc at the moment they are upfront in the media and people's minds so it makes sense they will do better than before at the next election.

 

[steveh35]

Surely they will just vote for him on the premise that he is still playing games so they will not give him the satisfaction of a no confidence vote and just vote for him as they know he can't do anything.

Apparently according to a BBC journo if Boris holds a no confidence vote and loses and a new govt cannot be formed persumably by Jeremy Corbyn then a general election is automatically triggered he didn't say what would happen if they voted confidence in him.

 

[goatwack]

That's because common sense hasn't got anyone thinking that they would actually vote 'confidence'

But knowing how low they'd stoop, keep your eyes peeled for that one!

 

[steveh35]

That's because common sense hasn't got anyone thinking that they would actually vote 'confidence'

But knowing how low they'd stoop, keep your eyes peeled for that one!

Despite their importance to the British constitution, for a long time the rules surrounding motions of no confidence were dictated solely by convention. However, since the

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, a vote of no confidence must be passed in a specific form in order to create the possibility of an early general election. Under the Act, if a motion of no confidence in the government is passed in express terms, the house must then adopt a vote of confidence in that same or an alternative government within 14 days, or a general election is held.

 

[goatwack]

General Election it is then

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Polling showing increasing support for Boris too. Why are the alliance so scared of letting people have their say?? If no deal was as unpopular as remainers try to tell us it is, why is Boris so popular?

Remember, they were polling as low as the teens% just a couple of months ago.

 

[steveh35]

Amber Rudd has just quit the Conservatives

 

[Mr_Slot5]

Amber Rudd has just quit the Conservatives

Ruddy hell (in there before goat)

 

[goatwack]

So from the woman who couldn't figure out why some people need foodbanks.

I'm sure she wanted to shred Benefits during her tenure as Work and Pensions Secretary too and had secretly hoped to ship most of the Windrush generation out quietly, but God forbid 21 of her towel-slapping-in-the showers chums get axed by Boris and she's distraught. Vile woman anyway, goodbye!

 

[colinsunderland]

Amber Rudd has just quit the Conservatives

Good. She was a joke and the country will be better off without her.

 

[sledge13]

Another waste of space remainer, good riddance

 

[Harry_BKK]

Just amazing how low you all stoop with your posts describing anyone who just might be in favour of staying in the EU or doesn't cheer for Boris and Farage.

And in the same breath, you ask for respect for your side.

I have seen no one in this thread on the "Remain" side using similar language that comes even close to yours, the "Leave" fans. You know, life taught me that those shouting loudest and most profane to be the weakest in society. I sure hope that that is not the case with you.

I wish you all well with your exit and shall wait patiently for your rants when things don't turn out to be all golden and your nationalistic wet dreams won't come true. Another old saying goes: "no everything that shines is indeed gold".
Vaya con dios!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Just amazing how low you all stoop with your posts describing anyone who just might be in favour of staying in the EU or doesn't cheer for Boris and Farage.

And in the same breath, you ask for respect for your side.

I have seen no one in this thread on the "Remain" side using similar language that comes even close to yours, the "Leave" fans. You know, life taught me that those shouting loudest and most profane to be the weakest in society. I sure hope that that is not the case with you.

I wish you all well with your exit and shall wait patiently for your rants when things don't turn out to be all golden and your nationalistic wet dreams won't come true. Another old saying goes: "no everything that shines is indeed gold".
Vaya con dios! View attachment 113844

This is exactly why I made the decision to vacate this thread a few weeks ago, I've been enjoying the forums far more since then!

Here's some good reading though, to give folks an idea of how the rest of the world now sees the UK. (This is from Canada, to give you a handle on how far away the utter shitness of Boris Johnson has been noticed.)

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Mr. Johnson is the author of 11 books, some admittedly banged out in the careless haste that is his style. But this week, without breaking a sweat, the PM penned the Odyssey and the Iliad of shambles. He faced his first votes in Parliament and lost them; lost his minority government’s governing majority; sacked 21 of his own MPs, including his party’s longest-serving member and Winston Churchill’s grandson; provoked his own brother into resigning from cabinet, citing a conflict between “family loyalty and the national interest"; and lost control of the House of Commons while remaining so offside the chamber’s confidence that it will not yet allow him to resolve the matter by calling an election.

Mr. Johnson did all that, and more, in the space of two days. What will tomorrow bring?

British politics today is what results from the collision of an unstoppable force, an immovable object and a clown car.

The unstoppable force is the dominant faction of Britain’s Conservative Party, which insists on not just an exit from the European Union, but the most catastrophic exit possible. It’s a plan for national self-defenestration. The immovable object is reality – the reality that a no-deal Brexit will play havoc with the economy and hurt real people; the reality that a majority of Parliament and the people will not back it; the reality that the Brexit-at-any-cost crowd can’t press the detonator without majority approval.

And the clown car is Mr. Johnson.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Still, at least it's giving Private Eye some good material.

 

[mack341]

Another old saying goes: "not everything that shines is indeed gold"

Thanks Harry, that's a very apt saying to describe the EU

 

[dunover]

Just amazing how low you all stoop with your posts describing anyone who just might be in favour of staying in the EU or doesn't cheer for Boris and Farage.

And in the same breath, you ask for respect for your side.

I have seen no one in this thread on the "Remain" side using similar language that comes even close to yours, the "Leave" fans. You know, life taught me that those shouting loudest and most profane to be the weakest in society. I sure hope that that is not the case with you.

I wish you all well with your exit and shall wait patiently for your rants when things don't turn out to be all golden and your nationalistic wet dreams won't come true. Another old saying goes: "no everything that shines is indeed gold".
Vaya con dios! View attachment 113844

Aha! You must mean the vociferous bunch from the losing side, howling 'bollocks to Brexit' outside Parliament each day. I suppose it makes a change from covering their ears and shouting 'LALALALALALA' …...

 

[thr0b]

Aha! You must mean the vociferous bunch from the losing side, howling 'bollocks to Brexit' outside Parliament each day. I suppose it makes a change from covering their ears and shouting 'LALALALALALA' …...

One of the pillars of democracy is the right to peaceful protest.

The remain protests have been bigger and had far fewer (something in the region of zero) arrests than the pro-leave protests.

And only side had someone on it who murdered an MP and then chose to ignore the “ceasefire” to allow grieving out of respect during the referendum campaign.

I’m glad I wasn’t on that side.

 

[dunover]

One of the pillars of democracy is the right to peaceful protest.

The remain protests have been bigger and had far fewer (something in the region of zero) arrests than the pro-leave protests.

And only side had someone on it who murdered an MP and then chose to ignore the “ceasefire” to allow grieving out of respect during the referendum campaign.

I’m glad I wasn’t on that side.

Interesting....a trading bloc that actually did work, without laws and sovereignty being compromised.

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Or the remainer in Manchester who killed his Brexit-supporting neighbour?

Or the double standards, a Brexit supporter arrested for calling Soubry a Nazi and fascist, while remoaner demos called Boris and others the same and faced, er… nothing?

This summarizes it a bit:

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The trouble is that the head-in-sand remainers are fed heavily biased information by the largely remain-supporting media and BBC etc. This instils in them a kind of self justification for their protests and behaviour and then we hear the meaningless soundbites regarding the size of their demonstrations and support. Meaningless, because the Brexit side already won the democratic vote and therefore most don't feel the need to take to the streets, expecting their decision to be honoured. I couldn't care less if 2 million remainers turned up at a rally - they LOST and are representing a minority. It's just that a sizeable minority of that minority cannot seem to accept the fact.

 

[Borgie]

You know from what I see both here and outside of here its six of one half a dozen of the other. Reading some of the comments here from both sides makes me cringe . Actually what it translates to everytime is I'm right you're wrong you knob head... followed by a whole load of rhubarb in support of the latest statement.

It's like the minute politics are discussed everyone loses their marbles. Normally rational people turn into nut jobs.

But the constant swiping at each other is really not cool.

Cant we talk kittens and fluffy bunnies

 

[Harry_BKK]

Thanks Harry, that's a very apt saying to describe the EU

The difference mack is that no one ever said that the EU is all "golden", but many of the Brexit campaigners including Boris and Farage are raving how everything in the UK will suddenly "turn into gold" the soon you leave the EU. That is quite a distinct difference.

 

[thr0b]

“Sunlit uplands”

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At least two medications I take daily are on the list of things which will likely be unavailable without a trade deal.

Oh, that’s going to be fun. Best see if I can get my GP to do a three month prescription.

 

[Kroffe]

I feel like if there ever was a time, where a Guy from sweden who pretends to be a bear on the internet, could swoop in and become prime-minister.
Now would be the time.

With the world being in the state it is now, i dont think it would even register as crazy for people.

Usa and Russia are besties.
North Korea kind of almost ventures out in the world a bit.
The whole brexit debacle.
Elon Musk smokes weed and teams up with nasa to fly to the moon
Usas President twitters more than a 13 year old girl, and sulks because he cannot buy Greenland. Later goes on to fake mental health decline to avoid prison after his term is over (Last part is just me guessing)

And somewhere in the middle of all that there would be "Dude from Sweden becomes PM of UK after strange turn of events"
Would not even be the weirdest thing you had read that day.

Oh, and i am willing to listen if people have objections.
But ever since i earned the "Addocted" badge recently here on CM i have started feeling a bit smug.
Like Maybe all these smileys i have gathered makes me a tiny bit more important than people with less smileys. (<-----joke)
So i will listen to complaints, but only from people with a Reaction to Comment ratio of atleast 2:1.
Thank you, and good day!

 

[mack341]

The difference mack is that no one ever said that the EU is all "golden", but many of the Brexit campaigners including Boris and Farage are raving how everything in the UK will suddenly "turn into gold" the soon you leave the EU. That is quite a distinct difference.

But what can anyone do about the bits of the EU that are not golden, as you accept is the case, it's impossible to affect or change through the ballot box in each nation state.

The left are being hoodwinked by the EU, look at the tories who rebelled, have they got a record of helping the less well off, Oliver Letwin was one of the brains behind the poll tax.

And the biggest all time cheerleader for the EU is Tony Bliar, if that doesn't tell you something nothing will.

 

[Mr_Slot5]

And the biggest all time cheerleader for the EU is Tony Bliar, if that doesn't tell you something nothing will.

Spot on.