Boycott

[abudha]

I saw many many non payments issues at this website.

I never see a boycott.

There is only one well known Boycott that worked very very well, but guess what it was not a boycott of players, it was a boycott of the Affiliates on Grand Prive. Grand Prive pays players, but when he dare not to pay the affiliates since they are well organized they blacklisted the casino everywhere starting from Casinocity ending at smaller affiliates site including here.

But look at a case a boycott should have been applied withot questions.

There was a player who won a progressive jackpot at one of the Casino Coin or cpays group of casinos.

He won there more than a million of Jackpot and was forced to agree to half of the amount otherwise he get paid 10,000 max cashout rule a month.


One of the questions raised back then was what happened to all the money in the poll, or all the money people lost, it is not he casino money according to the progressive Jackpot rules ? Where the money has gone ?


I am sure that in this case if 10,000 players reading this site will email the casino, I am closing my account if this player is not getting paid, this player would have been paid right away or with better payment plan

Why there is no boycott from player here in the sommunity here on non paying casinos.

Each casino should be scared not to pay, Watchdogs like casinomeister is not enough, Casinomeister has no super power, but boycott does it very well.

I wish to initiate a new boycott idea on each casino who wouldn't pay, how would we do that ?

Cpa

 

[vinylweatherman]

I saw many many non payments issues at this website.

I never see a boycott.

There is only one well known Boycott that worked very very well, but guess what it was not a boycott of players, it was a boycott of the Affiliates on Grand Prive. Grand Prive pays players, but when he dare not to pay the affiliates since they are well organized they blacklisted the casino everywhere starting from Casinocity ending at smaller affiliates site including here.

But look at a case a boycott should have been applied withot questions.

There was a player who won a progressive jackpot at one of the Casino Coin or cpays group of casinos.

He won there more than a million of Jackpot and was forced to agree to half of the amount otherwise he get paid 10,000 max cashout rule a month.


One of the questions raised back then was what happened to all the money in the poll, or all the money people lost, it is not he casino money according to the progressive Jackpot rules ? Where the money has gone ?


I am sure that in this case if 10,000 players reading this site will email the casino, I am closing my account if this player is not getting paid, this player would have been paid right away or with better payment plan

Why there is no boycott from player here in the sommunity here on non paying casinos.

Each casino should be scared not to pay, Watchdogs like casinomeister is not enough, Casinomeister has no super power, but boycott does it very well.

I wish to initiate a new boycott idea on each casino who wouldn't pay, how would we do that ?

Cpa

Rest assured that CM members DID boycott this casino, and others in the Cpays sisterhood. The main reason player boycotts are not as effective as affiliate boycotts is that affiliates control most of the information players get to see about a casino. Even though many players boycott a rogue casino, the casino knows that they are easily replaced by new ones who have no idea what went on, and join because of positive reviews they see on what they believe are objective and independent review sites.

Affiliates also use SEO to ensure that their sites place well in Google, and so often the negative warnings get pushed off the first page of search results. The Casinomeister forum is so old and well known that often the tactic does NOT work on bad news, and in many cases the complaint threads DO feature on the first page of the results, although rarely at the very top.

The fact that affiliates work hard to get their sites ranked highly in Google is what makes an affiliate driven boycott so effective. With Grand Prive, so many affiliates were writing negative articles and blacklisting them that almost EVERY result on the first page of many Grand prive related Google searches was full of negative information, and the counter measures tried by Grand Prive didn't make much difference. Eventually Grand Prive realised that they needed affiliates to at least "shut up", even if not as a main marketing tool for attracting players.
Grand Prive now rely on being one of the very few softwares available to US players, many of whom would NOT play there if they had the choice to still play at the likes of Microgaming and Playtech.

As they used to say "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". One sign of a dodgy casino is the size and (apparent) generosity of the welcome bonus, along with the loyalty offers.

Grand prive once offered me an existing player NON VIP bonus of "25% up to £25,000"

The Virtual group and the old Crystal Palace hold the record with a steadily escalating offer that reached something of the order "200% up to $33,000", followed by "use this SIX times today, SIX times on Sunday, and SIX times on Monday"

Pamper casino were offering "2000% bonuses" for new players, and substantial ones too, rather than it turning out to be $1 for $20 bonus.

Most players don't go near these casinos, but the lure of such massive bonuses makes many players leave their common sense behind, and they deposit thinking they just cannot go wrong with so much "free money".

 

[abudha]

What you say is true, but there what is called active boycott. Active boycott is not just sitting and not registering rogue but sending an email asking to close my account due to the non pay of other player.

There are around thousands at this forum, if there is a section in the forums, boycott section, and all users will send an email asking the casino to close their account, or an email reply to their promotion, no I dont play as you don't pay.

Example, right now casinojoy are playing tricks, it was not so clear whether it was excluded or just for wagering.

It is obvious that the exclusion of 9 line , has no based in truth as 9 lines are exatly the same as 5 or 10 lines, they were just losing at these games to bonus abusers so they think there is a way to make money from their 9 line, stupid from the beginning their terms, but now not to pay a player because he just touched the game, while Crypto slots holds a very high house edge including this 9 line, this is a shame

All users here should email them listen fellows if you don't find a better resolution with that poor player, we close our account with your casino.

Active boycotss, it is totally different than sitting and not coming to the casino.

I personally think it should be part of the forum sections.

 

[Nifty29]

What you say is true, but there what is called active boycott. Active boycott is not just sitting and not registering rogue but sending an email asking to close my account due to the non pay of other player.

There are around thousands at this forum, if there is a section in the forums, boycott section, and all users will send an email asking the casino to close their account, or an email reply to their promotion, no I dont play as you don't pay.

Example, right now casinojoy are playing tricks, it was not so clear whether it was excluded or just for wagering.

It is obvious that the exclusion of 9 line , has no based in truth as 9 lines are exatly the same as 5 or 10 lines, they were just losing at these games to bonus abusers so they think there is a way to make money from their 9 line, stupid from the beginning their terms, but now not to pay a player because he just touched the game, while Crypto slots holds a very high house edge including this 9 line, this is a shame

All users here should email them listen fellows if you don't find a better resolution with that poor player, we close our account with your casino.

Active boycotss, it is totally different than sitting and not coming to the casino.

I personally think it should be part of the forum sections.

So you recommend that, based on YOUR OPINION, we should all email casinojoy and ask them to close our account, quoting that particular issue.

The issue has NOT been resolved one way or the other, but we should be threatening the operators anyway.

Here at CM, we follow a thorough procedure before we start shouting "rogue" and we don't roam around like a pack of dogs looking for fresh meat. Bryan presents the facts and his opinion, and everyone makes up their own mind.

Effective boycotting requires a large group of like minded people, and I'm not sure this forum has never been described as that.

 

[vinylweatherman]

What you say is true, but there what is called active boycott. Active boycott is not just sitting and not registering rogue but sending an email asking to close my account due to the non pay of other player.

There are around thousands at this forum, if there is a section in the forums, boycott section, and all users will send an email asking the casino to close their account, or an email reply to their promotion, no I dont play as you don't pay.

Example, right now casinojoy are playing tricks, it was not so clear whether it was excluded or just for wagering.

It is obvious that the exclusion of 9 line , has no based in truth as 9 lines are exatly the same as 5 or 10 lines, they were just losing at these games to bonus abusers so they think there is a way to make money from their 9 line, stupid from the beginning their terms, but now not to pay a player because he just touched the game, while Crypto slots holds a very high house edge including this 9 line, this is a shame

All users here should email them listen fellows if you don't find a better resolution with that poor player, we close our account with your casino.

Active boycotss, it is totally different than sitting and not coming to the casino.

I personally think it should be part of the forum sections.

Such emails probably get processed simply as an account closure, and the "feedback" goes nowhere. There is also a considerable risk in this approach as so many players have closed an account for one reason, only to find the casino has ASSUMED it is because of a "gambling problem", and thus entered their name onto a "addict" database that causes the players problems at other casinos they play at.

Equally active is the uninstall & ignore. If the casino loses players with no obvious reason they try to find out why. This often leads to the player getting a "why have you stopped playing" email from someone a little higher up in the food chain, probably "retention". This means that any "feedback" sent in reply reaches at least middle management and marketing, and is more likely to make an impression. It also removes the risk that incompetent low level CS will process the request as a "gambling problem" related closure.

A long standing VIP player doing this carries far more weight than a new player doing this, or a player that hasn't played in a while sending an account closure request.

Even MORE effective is the affiliate boycott, which includes getting rogued on sites such as CM, which can only be done after "due process" has been followed. Often a "casino warning" is enough to bring a reluctant operator to their senses, even if only to give a PROPER explanation of their actions which clarifies things for the rest of us.

In the case of Casino Joy, I hope the warning encourages them to cooperate better with Max, and present a good reason as to why this VIP player deserves such harsh treatment, and what problems have caused them to take this untidy approach with the terms rather than ask Cryptologic to develop the software enforcement function to cover this.

Experienced players know why Malta is used to license this casino, the LGA are a joke, and often don't even reply to a complaint let alone carry out a proper and fair investigation. Where the LGA DO rule, it seems to be merely a "rubber stamp" on the casino's own ruling.

To have a meaningful effect, you need an affiliate boycott, not just a player one.

 

[abudha]

I don't agree at all these are all excuses. There are cases where it is simply a non pay, Vegasregal, the jackpot non pay by cpays...

At these cases the feedback will go, if 1000 accounts people send an email close my account, do you think the feedback won't go thru, of course it will, I don't agree, today the boycott help me tomorrow you.

You said there is no agreement sometimes, don't you agree cpays should have paid the jackpot in full, where the money went to ??? isn't it bad practice, why to let them go along with that ?

Vegasregal not paying a Jackpot winner, is there any doubt here ? why not everbody send an emali close my account.

believe me those casinos care a lot about this kind of feedback more than you think

 

[Nifty29]

I don't agree at all these are all excuses. There are cases where it is simply a non pay, Vegasregal, the jackpot non pay by cpays...

At these cases the feedback will go, if 1000 accounts people send an email close my account, do you think the feedback won't go thru, of course it will, I don't agree, today the boycott help me tomorrow you.

You said there is no agreement sometimes, don't you agree cpays should have paid the jackpot in full, where the money went to ??? isn't it bad practice, why to let them go along with that ?

Vegasregal not paying a Jackpot winner, is there any doubt here ? why not everbody send an emali close my account.

believe me those casinos care a lot about this kind of feedback more than you think

Thankyou for your reply, and for not listening to what has been said

If you want to recruit 10000 people to follow your sermon on the mount and close the accounts that you tell them to, may I suggest you open your own website, or maybe a blog?

 

[charlie2011]

I think a boycott is a good idea for those sites that continually refuse to pay the full amount. I try to avoid the sites that get mentioned on the forum.

 

[Casinomeister]

The policy at Casinomeister is that we don't tell operators what to do. We don't coerce, threaten, or make demands on anyone. And we surely don't tell players what to do either.

We do our best to provide enough information for players, operators, affy managers, and their affiliates to make schooled decisions on how to deal with the nuances of this industry.

We may dictate to no one - but we are always willing to give advice

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't agree at all these are all excuses. There are cases where it is simply a non pay, Vegasregal, the jackpot non pay by cpays...

At these cases the feedback will go, if 1000 accounts people send an email close my account, do you think the feedback won't go thru, of course it will, I don't agree, today the boycott help me tomorrow you.

You said there is no agreement sometimes, don't you agree cpays should have paid the jackpot in full, where the money went to ??? isn't it bad practice, why to let them go along with that ?

Vegasregal not paying a Jackpot winner, is there any doubt here ? why not everbody send an emali close my account.

believe me those casinos care a lot about this kind of feedback more than you think

Most of the influential players here don't HAVE an account at these "no pay" clip joints TO close, with or without feedback. We just stick with our decision not to open one. You are preaching to the converted.

If affiliates are not going to do what you want, YOU can do it. Set up your own website, and ensure that your views get an airing. The better constructed your site is, and the more reference material you can quote and link back to in support of your view, the higher your site will rank in Google. If you make it on page 1, the casino WILL start to pay attention, even if only to set their lawyers on to you.

You have already misquoted some of the limited detail of your example cases, and Cpays is no more. The offending casino (Joyland) decided to screw a Canadian woman out of a $4 Million progressive by saying they would only pay 10K a month, and this would mean waiting 30 years to get it all. No-one with any sense would expect such a casino to be around for the next 30 MONTHS, let alone years, so although the casino claimed this player made a free choice to accept half right away instead, this was NO real choice. As it turned out, Cpays barely made it SIX months, let alone the next 30, and when William Hill Online absorbed the group, all records of what happened to the other half had disappeared, leading us to assume the old owners simply pocketed some $2 Million of progressive pool monies, rather than either forwarding it to the winner, or returning it to the pool. It was PLAYTECH that turned a blind eye to all of this, claiming it was "only the software supplier", something that has more or less been shown to be untrue in more recent threads regarding the structure of Playtech Plc, and the various pies it has it's sticky fingers in. At the very least, Playtech should have demanded the return of the unawarded half, and placed it back into the pool.

Cpays can no longer be subject to a boycott, as it has gone out of business (deservedly so), and this is the best possible "punishment" for any rogue operator.

A boycott by players can only work if the casino finds itself unable to replace those players who are closing their accounts in protest. Virtual group have always managed to replace the players it loses once they find out how rogue they are, so despite losing so many players, they manage to lure in more than enough new players to replace them.

 

[abudha]

Opening a webiste is not a bad idea, actually I do have a website but it talks about how to make money from progressive Jackpots if u get in at the right time.

I just looked how perfectly they behave now at Grand Prive and begging to be back to business with the affiliates , and all because of the boycott.

I do agree most people here don't have an account with those rogue casinos.

Still if you have such a section, it can be a useful pressure on the casinos.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Opening a webiste is not a bad idea, actually I do have a website but it talks about how to make money from progressive Jackpots if u get in at the right time.

I just looked how perfectly they behave now at Grand Prive and begging to be back to business with the affiliates , and all because of the boycott.

I do agree most people here don't have an account with those rogue casinos.

Still if you have such a section, it can be a useful pressure on the casinos.

The membership can apply considerable pressure on a casino even without such a section. Those casinos that are determined to carry on misbehaving despite this are not going to change their ways just because there is a section dedicated to this.

 

[4 of a kind]

Rest assured that CM members DID boycott this casino, and others in the Cpays sisterhood. The main reason player boycotts are not as effective as affiliate boycotts is that affiliates control most of the information players get to see about a casino. Even though many players boycott a rogue casino, the casino knows that they are easily replaced by new ones who have no idea what went on, and join because of positive reviews they see on what they believe are objective and independent review sites.

Affiliates also use SEO to ensure that their sites place well in Google, and so often the negative warnings get pushed off the first page of search results. The Casinomeister forum is so old and well known that often the tactic does NOT work on bad news, and in many cases the complaint threads DO feature on the first page of the results, although rarely at the very top.

The fact that affiliates work hard to get their sites ranked highly in Google is what makes an affiliate driven boycott so effective. With Grand Prive, so many affiliates were writing negative articles and blacklisting them that almost EVERY result on the first page of many Grand prive related Google searches was full of negative information, and the counter measures tried by Grand Prive didn't make much difference. Eventually Grand Prive realised that they needed affiliates to at least "shut up", even if not as a main marketing tool for attracting players.
Grand Prive now rely on being one of the very few softwares available to US players, many of whom would NOT play there if they had the choice to still play at the likes of Microgaming and Playtech.

As they used to say "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". One sign of a dodgy casino is the size and (apparent) generosity of the welcome bonus, along with the loyalty offers.

Grand prive once offered me an existing player NON VIP bonus of "25% up to £25,000"

The Virtual group and the old Crystal Palace hold the record with a steadily escalating offer that reached something of the order "200% up to $33,000", followed by "use this SIX times today, SIX times on Sunday, and SIX times on Monday"

Pamper casino were offering "2000% bonuses" for new players, and substantial ones too, rather than it turning out to be $1 for $20 bonus.

Most players don't go near these casinos, but the lure of such massive bonuses makes many players leave their common sense behind, and they deposit thinking they just cannot go wrong with so much "free money".

To have a meaningful effect, you need an affiliate boycott, not just a player one.

If I understand your post correctly; we have players boycotting rogue online casinos, yet, they don’t really have any serious impact on rogue operators since these operators know that the small groups of advised players will be easily replaced with new ones, thanks to rogue affiliate support.

Now we have affiliate driven boycotts that are more effective then player boycotts, since they have better control of the internet, and control most of the information getting to players. Yet, the only way an affiliate boycott can be effective is when all the rogue affiliates join ranks with the honest affiliates and boycott a particular casino in unison. In addition it appears the affiliates will only join together as one when all the affiliates (both rogue and honest) personal incomes have been directly affected by a rogue operator, similar to the Grand Prive example.

If anyone believes any of this nonsense mentioned above is presently or has ever been an affective way to police unregulated online gaming, would at best be considered delusional.
Without governments taking a legal stance with serious regulation and enforcement, you will never be able to remove "ROGUE" from the definition of online gaming. Online gaming has been around long enough with a history and a record that speaks for itself.

The policy at Casinomeister is that we don't tell operators what to do. We don't coerce, threaten, or make demands on anyone. And we surely don't tell players what to do either.

We do our best to provide enough information for players, operators, affy managers, and their affiliates to make schooled decisions on how to deal with the nuances of this industry.

We may dictate to no one - but we are always willing to give advice

Obviously this statement should make it clear that Casinomeister can’t act as a regulator, and his recommendations are nothing more then an advisory service provided for members, and or anyone else that might read them that even care what he says.

 

[Seventh777]

Have to agree on what most posters have stated, the affiliates and webmeister`s can really pack a punch regarding boycotts etc. It really is time that TPTB regarding regulating and overseeing online gambling tightened their belts, for a start - all the software suppliers that endorse gambling awareness sites and agencies etc etc, yet have reverse withdrawals with no flushing options incorporated into their software, has to be the biggest hypocritical aspect i`ve ever seen imho.