- Joined
- Aug 13, 2018
- Location
- No mans land
Hahahaha I fucking despise that jackpot party slot vile those machines thank god don’t bother in arcades anymore
New Slot Announcement Bonanza by Big Time Gaming
- Thread starter dunover
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bonanza btg review
Read our BTG review and find out where to play BTG slots
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2014
- Location
- Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
Joining this late in the day.
So, from a brief read, slots are not random?
Any sign in the Bonanza code that Nut nut's midnight escapades were couched in software coding certainty?
So, from a brief read, slots are not random?
Any sign in the Bonanza code that Nut nut's midnight escapades were couched in software coding certainty?
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2018
- Location
- Uk
Probably more chance of cracking the ‘da Vinci code’ but it would sort of explain how we were guaranteed the ups and downs of @nutnut’s posts.
How after a good win he had to play it back after a bad run he always pulled a big win out of nowhere. Of course how else could this be so consistent without guidance from above.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
I don't know how popular Gold Lab is, but we managed to datamine some irrefutable floor math from it.
Cold session, no spins tried or run.
grid: "FreeSpinsGrid",
stops: [9, 58, 5, 40, 1],
runningTotal: 615,
generations: [{
symbols: [["f5", "m4", "m2"], ["f5", "m4", "f7"], ["f6", "f7", "sc"], ["f5", "f6", "m4"], ["wr", "f7", "m1"]],
winnings: [],
avalanche: [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]],
offsetsBefore: [[-3, -2, 0], [-3, -2, 0], [-3, -2, 0], [-1, 0, 1], [-1, 0, 1]],
offsetsAfter: [[-4, -3, 0], [-4, -3, 0], [-4, -3, -2], [-1, 0, 1], [-1, 0, 1]]
}]
}, {
grid: "FreeSpinsGrid",
stops: [37, 52, 53, 20, 1],
runningTotal: 615,
generations: [{
symbols: [["m3", "f8", "m1"], ["f5", "m1", "f5"], ["m2", "f5", "m4"], ["m2", "f8", "m2"], ["wr", "f7", "m1"]],
winnings: [],
avalanche: [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]],
offsetsBefore: [[-12, -10, -5], [-8, -7, 0], [-9, -8, -4], [-3, -1, 1], [-2, 0, 1]],
offsetsAfter: [[-14, -13, -5], [-11, -10, -9], [-12, -11, -10], [-4, -1, 1], [-2, 0, 1]]
}]
}, {
grid: "FreeSpinsGrid",
stops: [16, 83, 49, 3, 39],
runningTotal: 615,
generations: [{
symbols: [["wr", "f5", "sc"], ["m4", "f6", "wr"], ["f7", "f5", "m4"], ["m4", "f8", "m3"], ["f8", "m4", "f5"]],
winnings: [["normal", 11, 5, [{
This is only a small list of what we mined, and we got the results from both rmplay and fun money
/**
* Created by jacob.fleetwood on 2016-01-13.
*/
var RealityCheckOperatorURLs = {
"1": "rc-default/reality-check.html"
};
qs.relax.RelaxContants.GAME_ID = "goldlab";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.GAME_MODE = "prod";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.PARTNER_ID = "1";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.LOGIN_CHANNEL_PARAM = "web";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.IMMEDIATE_PAYOUTS = "false";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.END_POINT = "
qs.relax.RelaxContants.END_POINT_TOKEN = "
qs.relax.RelaxContants.END_POINT_REPLAY = "
qs.relax.RelaxContants.TICKET_EXTENSION = "/capi/1.0/casino/token/gettoken?channel=web&gameref=goldlab";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.LOGIN_EXTENSION = "/game/rmlogin/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.FUN_LOGIN_EXTENSION = "/game/demormlogin/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.SPIN_EXTENSION = "/game/play/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.PICK_EXTENSION = "/game/play/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.REFRESH_EXTENSION = "/game/refresh/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.PING_EXTENSION = "/game/ping/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.BET_AMOUNTS_EXTENSION = "/game/limits/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.FREEROUNDS_EXTENSION = "/game/freespins/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.REPLAY_EXTENSION = "/capi/1.0/casino/replay/getreplay";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.RESTORE_EXTENSION = "/game/setrestorestate/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.RESTORE_FINISHED_EXTENSION = "/game/gamefinished/";
Cold session, no spins tried or run.
grid: "FreeSpinsGrid",
stops: [9, 58, 5, 40, 1],
runningTotal: 615,
generations: [{
symbols: [["f5", "m4", "m2"], ["f5", "m4", "f7"], ["f6", "f7", "sc"], ["f5", "f6", "m4"], ["wr", "f7", "m1"]],
winnings: [],
avalanche: [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]],
offsetsBefore: [[-3, -2, 0], [-3, -2, 0], [-3, -2, 0], [-1, 0, 1], [-1, 0, 1]],
offsetsAfter: [[-4, -3, 0], [-4, -3, 0], [-4, -3, -2], [-1, 0, 1], [-1, 0, 1]]
}]
}, {
grid: "FreeSpinsGrid",
stops: [37, 52, 53, 20, 1],
runningTotal: 615,
generations: [{
symbols: [["m3", "f8", "m1"], ["f5", "m1", "f5"], ["m2", "f5", "m4"], ["m2", "f8", "m2"], ["wr", "f7", "m1"]],
winnings: [],
avalanche: [[0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0], [0, 0, 0]],
offsetsBefore: [[-12, -10, -5], [-8, -7, 0], [-9, -8, -4], [-3, -1, 1], [-2, 0, 1]],
offsetsAfter: [[-14, -13, -5], [-11, -10, -9], [-12, -11, -10], [-4, -1, 1], [-2, 0, 1]]
}]
}, {
grid: "FreeSpinsGrid",
stops: [16, 83, 49, 3, 39],
runningTotal: 615,
generations: [{
symbols: [["wr", "f5", "sc"], ["m4", "f6", "wr"], ["f7", "f5", "m4"], ["m4", "f8", "m3"], ["f8", "m4", "f5"]],
winnings: [["normal", 11, 5, [{
This is only a small list of what we mined, and we got the results from both rmplay and fun money
/**
* Created by jacob.fleetwood on 2016-01-13.
*/
var RealityCheckOperatorURLs = {
"1": "rc-default/reality-check.html"
};
qs.relax.RelaxContants.GAME_ID = "goldlab";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.GAME_MODE = "prod";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.PARTNER_ID = "1";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.LOGIN_CHANNEL_PARAM = "web";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.IMMEDIATE_PAYOUTS = "false";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.END_POINT = "
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
";qs.relax.RelaxContants.END_POINT_TOKEN = "
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
";qs.relax.RelaxContants.END_POINT_REPLAY = "
You do not have permission to view link
Log in or register now.
";qs.relax.RelaxContants.TICKET_EXTENSION = "/capi/1.0/casino/token/gettoken?channel=web&gameref=goldlab";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.LOGIN_EXTENSION = "/game/rmlogin/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.FUN_LOGIN_EXTENSION = "/game/demormlogin/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.SPIN_EXTENSION = "/game/play/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.PICK_EXTENSION = "/game/play/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.REFRESH_EXTENSION = "/game/refresh/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.PING_EXTENSION = "/game/ping/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.BET_AMOUNTS_EXTENSION = "/game/limits/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.FREEROUNDS_EXTENSION = "/game/freespins/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.REPLAY_EXTENSION = "/capi/1.0/casino/replay/getreplay";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.RESTORE_EXTENSION = "/game/setrestorestate/";
qs.relax.RelaxContants.RESTORE_FINISHED_EXTENSION = "/game/gamefinished/";
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2017
- Location
- Belgium
- Joined
- May 13, 2014
- Location
- Wolverhampton
I think I'd be proper foil hatting and REALLY panicking and getting annoyed if I could understand even 1% of those code posts 
I could just about type BASIC commands from Spectrum magazines, which would result in a couple of bleeps or a dot moving three spaces to the rightI think I'd be proper foil hatting and REALLY panicking and getting annoyed if I could understand even 1% of those code posts
These codes are a bit more......challenging
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
It's all about the 'offset' lines which he maintains are irrefutable proof the bonus is limited/riggpensated or whatever the term today is. If you actually ask @trancemonkey he'll tell you that developers can recode bonus rounds with different reels, for every one of the spins if they like. I know he told me this in London, but the details he'll have to refresh you on. It's perfectly legal.I think I'd be proper foil hatting and REALLY panicking and getting annoyed if I could understand even 1% of those code posts
paul7388
Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2014
- Location
- glasgow scotland
Well if i never felt stupid before i certainly do now.
People see lines of code and information. I just see letters and numbers everywhere. In fact they look like a post Goatie would make when pissed
People see lines of code and information. I just see letters and numbers everywhere. In fact they look like a post Goatie would make when pissed
- Joined
- May 13, 2014
- Location
- Wolverhampton
Never doubted it for a second.
For a (semi) retired foil hatter, have to ask though does it put the player at any disadvantage from the RANDOM result their particular spin pulled from the server, and it there any doubt or grey areas regarding "Outcomes are independent of previous results"
EG: Result = 1,000x (before displaying eye candy, check last session...checking....last session = 10xD cash out.)...server result now = losing spin
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2012
- Location
- London
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
I will address this briefly, from an empirical point of view based on the evidentiary material I've uncovered, but first elaborate on my interest on this subject.
Who I am : I am that old grey fart (not the sexy Grey), who's been geeking out since before Motorola even dreamt of AsC machine coding.
What I do : I am not in charge, but lead on creating simulation models, based on complex mathematical matrixes, for the dept. of defence.
- That's not a federal crime to admit, it just signals, that if a mosquitos craps in the amazones, you can be sure it's in our algorithm and calculations for assessing risks. - that said, the coding used in slot machines aren't troubling or difficult to read, rather crude in nature and arbitrary, except for, the math and ingenuity applying it to what's essentially a risk analyzer model. The risk of those reels aligning, giving you a win. Only the system is partially rigged.
RTP is high, and to obtain that, they need to spread the risk on several planes.
One being amounts of spin to abide by the rtp, they didn't say when it would be reached.
Another is the way P/T/QRng models work, allowing for phase shifts mid game, to refresh memory banks, ensuring no allocations are stuck on the same streak.
A third way is to apply the "catch up" windtail feature, we know from racing games. It gives you a slight boost to catch up to losses total, by switching in between phases.
Now, when you say compensation, you are not wrong. Problem is, technically, it's not a compensation, when it's volatile. Being compensated means assigned a machine state that sticks. But to follow your train of thought, if it wasn't, then you've proven my point of machines states changing, hence, the profiling and adaptation models mentioned earlier.
The adaptation model isn't based on catching you up to speed, it isn't a compensation, it's a system that regulates odds as we know from betting, that takes in consideration, how long you've got left on a match, what the probability of the next corner being awarded to team x etc. It's realtime and interchanging, but accordingly to your gamesession. ( point 2, you are correct, they are private cookie sessions ).
Your private gamesession consists of many factors, herein the balance and total w/l counts, but also adapts to the speed with which you spin, the shift in amount you bet, the pattern breaking data, that you provide. Point being, adapting model isn't there to compensate you, hence the cold spins after a big win and the stressing of a player making him chase.
best explained and proven here: same paytable, same reels, difference in frequency of stops and odds, and regulated by THIS:
fileName: "Big_win-idle_", / fileName: "wait-pour-anticipation_", different rule sets, but same controller: nextState: e.Anticipation
stops: [19, 7, 9, 0, 0],
stops: [78, 10, 67, 18, 30],
symbols: [["sc", "f8", "m1"], ["sc", "f7", "m1"], ["sc", "f9", "m4"], ["f5", "wr", "f8"], ["f9", "wr", "f7"]],
symbols: [["m1", "f7", "m2"], ["f8", "f5", "m4"], ["f7", "f5", "m4"], ["m2", "f8", "m2"], ["m3", "f5", "b1"]],
winnings: [["bonus", 0, 10, [{
winnings: [["normal", 11, 5, [{
x: 1,
y: 1
x: 3,
y: 1
}, {
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
He would be right. On the fly changes are readily made in all sorts of matrixes. In the old days, a slot would look like this:
"symbol1": {
frequency: 2,
data: {
source: "Symbol1.jpg",
winFactor: [8, 80, 400]
where frequency determined how many of those symbols were present on the one reel.
I’m not a computer expert in the slightest, but if there is decompiled / reverse engineered code then that must be for the client side , not the main gaming server , otherwise someone would be soon in trouble for computer hacking ....
So this suggests that the code is for display purposes , as if you get a disconnection the game would need to carry on where it left off.
Also if someone has the “code”, then surely they could change it and give the game server any input they wanted .
So is this just a way for sending a small data packet from the server that says “ win X this spin” and having a mass of graphics showing all sorts of wonderful stuff to cut down on the amount of data getting sent around ?
Is @trancemonkey around ?
So this suggests that the code is for display purposes , as if you get a disconnection the game would need to carry on where it left off.
Also if someone has the “code”, then surely they could change it and give the game server any input they wanted .
So is this just a way for sending a small data packet from the server that says “ win X this spin” and having a mass of graphics showing all sorts of wonderful stuff to cut down on the amount of data getting sent around ?
Is @trancemonkey around ?
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
The RTP is open-ended, the TRTP (Theoretical) would normally be the return to a level bet for all possible outcomes once, which should always be say 96.25% of the total cost or whichever RTP model they use.
There is one issue you could comment on which I've heard many times - assuming the game is truly random and a player wins very big on a high stake, I am proposing that although the casino would incur a big monetary loss and their own RTP would say jump to 120%, there is no coding that could adjust for net monetary gains/losses that were outside certain parameters, assuming those parameters actually existed. I don't think they do, but some players believe slots can 'tighten' if there have been big winners.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
These finding were recovered server side, mainly global js files, but they do vary from casino to casino . I wouldn't try taking on netents main site
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
There isn't in the game code, which is why I pointed to the external site code handshakes and balance sharing. If they are read in on our starting balance from say unibet, they could regulate that way, triggering different odds tables.
This way your gamecode doesn't state, if player wins X amount, screw him, it's more subtle and hidden in the general algorithm changes that can't be directly correlated with a big win.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Location
- United Kingdom
I will have my colleague jump on it as well, there's a lot of code to go through and the obfuscation is incomplete due to the inability to get all dependent files. Naturally, their servers are secure, so I expected no less. In regards of the 200+ pages, those do not contain pinpoint information on the adaptive model, it's the project main, a main scene if you will. But it does show the grandure of all the rule sets applied to the base game and hints at the various functions ( same name functions ) that are called in action, depending on your gamesession success.
I am not much of a conspiracy theorist, but I did find it odd, that they are logging all sessions, winning etc. as inject files to async protocols, network exchange traffic, that leads to their non fun version of the game, hosted on their main site. This is the site pushing the game to any partner of theirs. Last but not least, a directory shows there are several versions of the same game, which is partly explained by licensing laws, and how the different casinos operate, meaning what version they want etc., but it doesn't explain the discrepancy in size of the .json or .js files ruling the winvalidating procedures etc.
*EDIT
what caught my eye wasn't the buildup of said slot, it was the suggestion of frequencies changing during gameplay.
normally a five reel / 3 row non advance slot has a set of rules:
I.E. 5 symbols total in game, spread:
15 on each reel,
frequency: 1,2,2,5,5 meaning the highest paying symbol is to be found 1 time on reel 1, the others, twice etc. giving the following outcome possibilities;
ABCDE
Reel 1:
A, B, B, C, C, D, D, D, D, D, E ,E ,E ,E ,E (15 symbols on reel 1)
Assumed logical math:
A 1/15 for each spin, A would have one fifteenth of a chance to hit
B 2/15 for each spin, B would have two fifteenths of a chance to hit
E 5/15 for each spin, E would have five fifteenths of a chance to hit
but some symbols are weighted more heavily in occurrence, the draw model, say 30% on D, E, 12.5% on B, C, given the use of their rng model.
that reduces the chance of getting A to hit by 85% for each spin giving us a more realistical
0,15/15 = 0.01 percent.
0,15/15 = 0.01 percent * 4 reels 0.04 + 0.01 = 0.05. ( The last one is additive because on the incremental calculation taking place the first 4 rows and follows regular math rules, * over + ) and is applied procedurally from left to right.
So the symbol is represented less than others accordingly to their value. - the latter changed in real time, when certain earnings were made and the disparity increased, reactivating after a certain amount of spins.
/Rant over
There is nothing here that is illegal... weighted reels have been around for many many years. It's how stepper games (real reels) have worked for a long time.
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
can you two discuss these code issues/irregularities in a bit more detail, so far I'm moving towards something is wrong or not as we understood how the slot games and servers worked, we were told it's all very simple, an rng just pulls out millions of results and when you press spin you get the next result.
I don't think somebody with Redphase's mathematical knowledge, job and background would raise concerns with the code/program if there was nothing unusual
I don't think somebody with Redphase's mathematical knowledge, job and background would raise concerns with the code/program if there was nothing unusual
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Location
- United Kingdom
None of that code is proof of anything... which part, exactly, are you suggesting is proof?
So far, I've seen nothing in any of the code you've posted that proves anything. If you believe there is proof there, by all means find it and post it... I look forward to the proof
The function where it returns s also proves nothing - game servers have to, legally, track your play which includes balance - otherwise how would a game know whether you had enough money to press start or not? They have to record all games played for game recovery and game history purposes...
Of course, I could be missing something, but I havent seen anything that proves anything so far, and posting snippets of code also doesn't prove anything because, as you know, you need to see the whole picture and be able to trace what everything is doing to prove anything.
And I'll repeat, if you can prove someone is breaking the rules, I'll be the first one in line backing you when you report it to the UKGC.
BTW you said you found this from the server, which means you must have hacked the server. And if you have, then you have the entire code. So you must be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. All you've shown so far is that logging occurs and that different reels can be used, or the same reels with different weights. All perfectly legal.
Last edited:
- Joined
- May 22, 2013
- Location
- Cumbria
I think the point he's trying to make is, when and why those different reels and weightings come into play
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Location
- United Kingdom
But he hasnt made that point... I havent seen any proof that the game decides the outcomes based on compensation, previous win, your age, etc...
Think of Twin Spin by NetEnt, when you press the start button, the game will almost certainly decide how many reels you link together, and then based on that decision, it will pick some reel stop positions from reel bands associated with whatever reels are linked together.
Obviously having 5 reels locked together will be much less frequent, so the decision as to what reel bands to use will be based on some random decision (random not meaning evenly weighted - just randomly determined).
- Joined
- May 8, 2018
- Location
- south east england
normally it's expected of newbies to be a bit more polite than this
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Location
- United Kingdom
I disagree... I think he's almost certainly intelligent. My only concern is that he hasn't yet shown any proof... I know that he's suggested there are multiple levels of obfuscation, but as test houses are given all source code, if he can see something is wrong, then so can they (or at least they should). So he's also suggesting the test houses are complicit...
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
None of that code is proof of anything... which part, exactly, are you suggesting is proof?
So far, I've seen nothing in any of the code you've posted that proves anything. If you believe there is proof there, by all means find it and post it... I look forward to the proof
The function where it returns s also proves nothing - game servers have to, legally, track your play which includes balance - otherwise how would a game know whether you had enough money to press start or not? They have to record all games played for game recovery and game history purposes...
Of course, I could be missing something, but I havent seen anything that proves anything so far, and posting snippets of code also doesn't prove anything because, as you know, you need to see the whole picture and be able to trace what everything is doing to prove anything.
And I'll repeat, if you can prove someone is breaking the rules, I'll be the first one in line backing you when you report it to the UKGC.
BTW you said you found this from the server, which means you must have hacked the server. And if you have, then you have the entire code. So you must be able to prove it beyond reasonable doubt. All you've shown so far is that logging occurs and that different reels can be used, or the same reels with different weights. All perfectly legal.
I prefer the term, scavenged their servers, with legal use of highly customized python scripts, honoring the gentleman rules of not bashing said servers.
Furthermore I would be happy to share more of the code, but it would be in private. There is no point in google crawling and indexing IP material.
Lastly, I would appreciate your elaboration on what constitutes, breaking the rules. The stepping mechanics you refer to, I am not familiar with, this being my first time on the internet playing slots for amusement merely.
And to the gentleman
There are all kinds of smart in this world, I am by no means in the front nor at prodigy level. The only smartness I take pride in, is acknowledging I have loads to learn yet in life, and that humbles me
That and, I really don't need to pretend I understand coding, it's like a doctor pretending to know anatomy. I should hope anyone doing this professionally at a high clearance level, know what they are doing. I do appreciate your input though.
Have a nice evening all.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Location
- New Zealand
So what @RedPhase is saying is BTG is controlling the outcome of the slot?
But, why?
The game is programmed as TRTP 96%, it gives 4% edge to the casino without BTG controlling, so there is no point for BTG is controlling the outcome for the casino.
If BTG is controlling the outcome of the spin, so no players will have horrible RTP like 60%, or no players will have very luck RTP like 150%? But why?
Why BTG want everyone to have around 96% RTP?
It really doesn't matter to BTG and casinos that someone has 150% RTP when other person has 60% RTP.
They want to compensate so players will be back?
Well, last months and this month I played Bonanza 10000-12500 xp points-$10000-$12500 wagering on Bonanza on VS on 60 cents bet, my RTP for Bonanza for last month and this month, both are around 85%. I don't see any compensation there.
I'm not saying BTG is honest company or anything like that.
I really don't trust their words regarding to Bonanza has "sky is the limit." potential.
I just don't see the point for BTG to control the outcome.
But, why?
The game is programmed as TRTP 96%, it gives 4% edge to the casino without BTG controlling, so there is no point for BTG is controlling the outcome for the casino.
If BTG is controlling the outcome of the spin, so no players will have horrible RTP like 60%, or no players will have very luck RTP like 150%? But why?
Why BTG want everyone to have around 96% RTP?
It really doesn't matter to BTG and casinos that someone has 150% RTP when other person has 60% RTP.
They want to compensate so players will be back?
Well, last months and this month I played Bonanza 10000-12500 xp points-$10000-$12500 wagering on Bonanza on VS on 60 cents bet, my RTP for Bonanza for last month and this month, both are around 85%. I don't see any compensation there.
I'm not saying BTG is honest company or anything like that.
I really don't trust their words regarding to Bonanza has "sky is the limit." potential.
I just don't see the point for BTG to control the outcome.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2018
- Location
- Uk
I don’t think he has actually mentioned Btg it just happens to be in the Bonanza thread.
It’s more about your play being tracked and certain outcomes being available/unavailable based on your stats. There is a very good reason though why a provider would want people to hit the trtp. It brings trust that what it says on the label is happening in reality. You will have peaks and troughs around that rtp but the most important thing from the casino/providers point is if everyone hits their rtp nobody gets fed up and they RETAIN THEIR CUSTOMER BASE. The thing that is of upmost importance to them so yes their is a reason why they would care who wins and who loses.
It’s more about your play being tracked and certain outcomes being available/unavailable based on your stats. There is a very good reason though why a provider would want people to hit the trtp. It brings trust that what it says on the label is happening in reality. You will have peaks and troughs around that rtp but the most important thing from the casino/providers point is if everyone hits their rtp nobody gets fed up and they RETAIN THEIR CUSTOMER BASE. The thing that is of upmost importance to them so yes their is a reason why they would care who wins and who loses.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Location
- United Kingdom
I don't believe there is any proof so far that outcomes are based on your stats...
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2014
- Location
- New Zealand
If what you mean is the game provider can pick some player who has a very horrible RTP on that game like 60%, and decide to give a nice big win to that player to retain him as a customer, yes I can see that possible.
But the issue is there are millions of players out there, and I think it's the waste of the time and resource for the game providers to make sure every players will hit TRTP, I mean without controlling, most players will have RTP that is close to TRTP, because most people will spin millions of spin if they think the game is fun to play.
Sure there are going to be very small percentage of people will have RTP that is much less than TRTP, but to make sure those small percentage people will stay as customers, the game providers spend time and resource to control the outcome? That's not really smart business decision I think.
Another thing is, having RTP that is close to TRTP doesn't mean the player will have a nice big win sometimes to make the player think "I like this game."
I have lifetime RTP of 93% on Gemix, and I had a lot of spins on Gemix, I mean a lot, but the biggest win is 50X.
Though if someone can prove the game provider control the outcome of the spin for streamers for advertisement benefit, I think that's really possible.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
I might argue, that it isn't a question of, can it be done, but would it:
A - be beneficial to risk exposure?
B - not make more sense to provide streamers with a customized version for them to play?
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2014
- Location
- Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
The thought of streamer specific games will be news to Playford’s ears 
- Joined
- May 13, 2014
- Location
- Wolverhampton
*yawn*....*stretch*, "Morning All" 
Sooooo........Is it rigged or not?
Sooooo........Is it rigged or not?
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2013
- Location
- United Kingdom
*yawn*....*stretch*, "Morning All"
Sooooo........Is it rigged or not?
That was a hell of a lie in
What you've shown here is the XHR response from the game servers. This is data used for driving the display and UI logic. This is available for everyone to see if they bring up their browser’s developer tools and look under the “network” tab. I really can’t see how this proves anything claimed, please elaborate.
As for the providers needing to see your balance... well, you can’t accept a bet if you don’t know this crucial detail, can you?
I’ve looked closely at quite a few online slot providers / distributors, but the one I’m most familiar with is NextGen’s (now SG) GDM (game development module? There’s very little literature available online). When you launch a GDM game (pre-Quickfire Bonanza, for example), the casino opens a new session for your “wallet ID”. Could be a hash of your e-mail or whatever, something that maps to a value that both the casino and the operator can uniquely identify. From what I gather, the operator only has access to this hash of that value, and nothing else that identifies you as a player (If you open the same game from a different casino, the provider sees a different unique hash). This session now has access to your casino wallet to place bets. On every request for a spin with a given bet value from your game client, the provider backend checks your wallet (which it can identify thanks to the session opened previously) to see if it has the balance to place that bet, and if so, accepts it, rolls the dice, and returns your winnings back to your wallet.
These transactions (bets out, winnings in) are probably guarded by a transactional database that “locks” writes or reads while doing updates, to avoid race conditions if playing multiple games simultaneously, for example.
All dice rolls / game logic are hosted by the provider, and not the casino or game developer. This has the added benefit that the RNG is seeded by an almost-impossible-to-guess amount of entropy by all the players out there placing bets. Even if you somehow managed to find the PRNG algorithm used, AND the initial seed, you would still have to find how fast the RNG is cycling by guessing how many clients are hitting it, and at what rate. And still, most RNGs in use have some sort of internal background cycling that is seeded from another source (weather, keyboard presses, Donald Trump tweets, you name it)
Once a random value is chosen, the value is passed on to the game engine to produce a result. This of course varies wildly from game to game. The value could be used to produce reel stops, or simply pull a result from a predefined pool of results, using the random value as an index. The result is then passed on to your game client, which will display all the bells and whistles.
As long as the maths behind the game engine and the RNG is solid, neither casinos nor operators/developers have to employ dirty tricks to make money off their games. You simply can’t win (in the long run).
- Joined
- May 22, 2012
Aha! That streamer and affiliate RTP maths setting.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2019
- Location
- Copenhagen
If you are suggesting, that I based my findings in this thread upon, right clicking, choosing inspect elements on a homepage, clicked the network pane and then copy pasted some random code snippets in, to somehow stir the pot, then I am afraid we are wasting each others time.
The balance issue I covered wasn't pertaining to the general balance check before bets were placed, it's implicit, that such a mechanic is in place and justified. I was referring to the frame of your total balance on your account, with any given casino portal, you've logged on to, AFTER you've allocated credits to the slot you wish to play.
In other words, some casinos prompt you to allocate x amount of credits you wish to spend on a game/slot, before it loads up. This separates your main fundings from the fundings you've specified to use in a separate gamesession, achieving two things:
1. you are controlling the amount you deem "expendable"
2. you are protecting information that the game provider has no rightful justification to possess.
A game provider has no business knowing if your balance is 5k total, before playing their game. Or that you've only allocated 50 usd of the 5k that's in your account. That could lead to, as discussed in other forums outside ours, profile targeting, leading to specific tailored game sessions based on your balance, potentially leading to a different game experience and outcome.
A website identifying your OS platform and browser application is one thing, ensuring you are redirected to match and give you the most accurate experience, but this is entirely different. That balance is like your bank account, sacred.
If you are tanking gas, the stall PBS will probe and check for a minimum balance, that your bank validates, before it let's you fill up the tank. It is not provided your entire bank account balance in the proces.
I will refrain from commenting further on this thread and focus on my exchange via dm with trance monkey.
Thank you all for your time and happy gaming.
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- Joined
- Jan 12, 2018
- Location
- Uk
As if finding the D wasn’t hard enough. The G has now become invisible
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- Joined
- Dec 13, 2017
- Location
- Belgium
Too bad... Even if we don't understand everything I think I speak for quite some people that we still like to be "in" on the discussion.
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2014
- Location
- england
back to actual thread.......
WTF has happened to this game since DOA release. ive not seen a bonus at all and base game is dead. has everyone left it for DOA so game is just extra dog shit???
WTF has happened to this game since DOA release. ive not seen a bonus at all and base game is dead. has everyone left it for DOA so game is just extra dog shit???
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2017
- Location
- Croatia
got bonus few hours ago with retigger for foken 40x so you are not missing a lot
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Location
- Glasgow
I’ve had 1 bonus in 3 days and it paid 80x on a 20p bet 
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2014
- Location
- england
Oh well nice to not be alone in the being rinsed dry.
Even gave DOA ago, jesus that game is awful for me
Even gave DOA ago, jesus that game is awful for me
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2018
- Location
- Uk
Is anyone else having disconnection problems playing this and other Btg games on a mobile? DHV and Chilli have always been bad but now Bonanza is the worst of all.
I have never had much trouble with Netent but DOA2 is dreadful also, every 5 spins or so. I really enjoy the slots but if this carries on I will pack it in. It’s impossible to enjoy it when this happens.
I have never had much trouble with Netent but DOA2 is dreadful also, every 5 spins or so. I really enjoy the slots but if this carries on I will pack it in. It’s impossible to enjoy it when this happens.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 2017
- Location
- Glasgow
I had a few “your internet connection is slow please reload” messages on DOA2 yesterday and the odd laggy spin on Bonanza but seemed fine today. Most of my issues were at Trada. Where have you been playing?
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2013
- Location
- Milton Keynes
geordiecolin
Sporney eyed parrot faced wazzock
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2015
- Location
- Novacastrian
I've just caught up with this thread and I'm gutted that Redface has abandoned us
I have not touched Bonanza since my 4k x hit
I have not touched Bonanza since my 4k x hit
