Baptism by Fire - success Bet-at.eu - giving it a try

[Igor82]

You'll get the cash quick enough, they've stuck their necks out too far in public not to do so without losing credibility. The exchanges were questionable from a casino rep on a public forum, but at the end of the day he was objective about it and exercised due diligence and found the facts you gave tallied, so we have all witnessed a fair outcome.

He will not be getting paid because "we stuck our necks out" - he will be getting paid because he finally did what was required of him to do to ensure the fake information that he included at registration is not an act of trying to deceive the casino, but an act of negligence. The only person that stuck their neck out here is me: a new rep foolishly thinking that transparency rules every situation.

Lesson well learned and as other's do, going forward the usual retort will follow (which is what should have followed): "As this is not your case AC7X, kindly ask your friend to either raise a PAB *here*, or do as requested by the Fraud department. The information you have published is misrepresenting the case and I will not discuss it further. Thank you" - instead of trying to justify and educate.

The only reason why the player is paid is because he followed the protocol he initially had an issue with, after misrepresenting his details. Everything that went on here had absolutely zero influence on the outcome, other than raising additional checks due to information some of AC7X posts uncovered which 'could' have led to MA being uncovered - but didn't. The additional checks were done in under 4 hours before the player finally sent his photo, and payer was paid (funds flushed to processor) in about 20 minutes after sending the document required of him 4 days earlier. Case closed.

Hi,

What is this 1-TAP authorisation thing I have to give bet at eu whenever I deposit with skrill? I do not want this authorised on my account but it is FORCED on me whenever I deposit via skrill. I have to go and cancel it via the old skrill website everytime after depositing.

It is not explained anywhere nor does anywhere else I use enforce this authorisation yet. All I can see that it does is this

"At the same time you have authorised NRR Entertainment Ltd. to request Skrill 1-Tap payments from your Skrill account for amounts up to xxxxxxxxx GBP. "

DO NOT WANT

Hey threescatters - 1tap is the new "easier" way for Skrill to process their deposits. It's an option they are pushing with operators and we simply adopted it. I can switch the option on and off on case-by-case basis so if you PM me your username i'll revert your account to old deposit page of Skrill, its no problem.

I do suspect you wil be seeing 1top more frequently in the coming months as it is bound to replace the old interface window eventually. PM me your username and i'll change the setting s on your account.

Thanks for the freechip igor
i couldn't win though ......
But i'll be back

No probs usual weekly chasback - you win some you lose some as always

 

[Igor82]

Personally I think Igor made the right call, if it had gone to a PAB the player would have been paid IMO.

PAB would have been paid after the user sent the documents asked from him the very moment we realised the information he inserted on his account was incorrect. That is the same requirement Max would have put forward as it's nothing new in case of suspected fraud. And fake DOB insertion is suspected fraud, otherwise we would not be doing our job.

The one little bit of info that Igor does have, which is what led to his rather 'public' discussion of the matter here at CM, well, I'd be interested to know where he got that piece of info from, because it wasn't from his own systems.

I've known AC7 for ten years or more IRL and I know exactly what has happened in this case, there was no fruad, no multi-accounting, no attempt to scam the casino, and what's why the payment has been made to the player - Igor's decision to close the account is of course entirely his right to do so.

Sometimes there really isn't anything dodgy going on, and this is one of the those cases, and AC7 isn't that kind of guy.

Internet is a very powerful tool of research and the information we've gotten on the OP isnt something any player on here cannot research in a matter of minutes. I hope that satisfies you curiosity in respect of AC7X info.

You may have known AC7X for over 10 years, but we haven't and nor have we known his "flatmate" for that time. Your post makes it obvious you were/are in private contact with the OP who has given you the information i provided to him in the PM and I'd be foolish to fall into a public barrage on a case I cannot defend on here without being accused of disseminating private information - so i'll accept your assumption that you know all sides of the case - which you obviously don't - least of, since you haven't reached out to me, Bryan or Max who have been made aware of the case with AC's very first post.

If you want to speculate further publicly on what has transpired here based on your and AC7 relationship, go ahead - i wont indulge, although you may want to ping one of the mods of the forum at least to check if they may have their own opinion on the matter as they've, unlike you, been in touch with both sides.

Player was paid because he LISTENED to the requirements of my fraud team after he missed the entire year and month of his birth by quite a bit more than just a few fields. Anyone grossly misrepresenting (read: 'lying' if you'd like) their age will be faced with the same amount of scrutiny and i would expect nothing less from my (or any) team, and neither should you - as it is in your end interest!

Btw, thanks Nifty for reading the posts objectively and not based on your past relationships with other forum members. I think CM is as powerful as it is, exactly due to the majority of posters and readers taking things objectively - in most cases at least.

Moving on...

 

[threescatters]

Hey threescatters - 1tap is the new "easier" way for Skrill to process their deposits. It's an option they are pushing with operators and we simply adopted it. I can switch the option on and off on case-by-case basis so if you PM me your username i'll revert your account to old deposit page of Skrill, its no problem.

I do suspect you wil be seeing 1top more frequently in the coming months as it is bound to replace the old interface window eventually. PM me your username and i'll change the setting s on your account.
:

Hi Igor,

Thanks for the extremely clear and helpful reply (as you seem to give everyone with a question!)

There is no need to revert my account to the old deposit page, from what you say I will have to get used to it from everywhere anyway so so be it.

The problem I have with "1 tap" is that it only takes me 1 click already! I use a token on my skrill account and I always want that security on my account no matter what. Once I am passed token authorisation it only takes me "1 tap" to deposit anyway so whats the point in this? (Question not aimed at bet at eu Igor it is more aimed at skrill I guess)

I also have a problem with the fact after I deposit using this 1 tap thing apparently whichever merchant I used is now authorised to request debits from my skrill account or something? I mean ridic! But again this is not bet at eus doing from what you say, so apologies for the rant.

 

[Jasminebed]

I'm not keen on the Skrill one-tap either. I've pm'd Igor and had an immediate reply.

What I don't like is the inability to see my balance as at other merchants, and I'm not sure if it would pull from my credit card I have linked if I didn't have sufficient funds.

Thanks for giving us a choice Igor.

 

[Igor82]

Hi Igor,

Thanks for the extremely clear and helpful reply (as you seem to give everyone with a question!)

There is no need to revert my account to the old deposit page, from what you say I will have to get used to it from everywhere anyway so so be it.

The problem I have with "1 tap" is that it only takes me 1 click already! I use a token on my skrill account and I always want that security on my account no matter what. Once I am passed token authorisation it only takes me "1 tap" to deposit anyway so whats the point in this? (Question not aimed at bet at eu Igor it is more aimed at skrill I guess)

I also have a problem with the fact after I deposit using this 1 tap thing apparently whichever merchant I used is now authorised to request debits from my skrill account or something? I mean ridic! But again this is not bet at eus doing from what you say, so apologies for the rant.

Since we've had a few requests through CS on the same nature, soon (very soon) you will be able to choose which deposit methods you want to see on your deposit page from your settings (manageable by you) and which type of a specific deposit method you want (1tap or otherwise for example).

We've re-branded (are about to), launched 4 new languages, 3 new currencies, 3 new game achievement structures, TRTP vs RTP tracking (ask and I'll elaborate) - and a host of other nifty features so the update is taking a wee bit of time to do as we want to do it all at once. Bear with us just a little while longer and all these functionalities can be managed by yourselves - just like you can these days remove bonuses yourselves or change their priorities

 

[Igor82]

What I don't like is the inability to see my balance as at other merchants, and I'm not sure if it would pull from my credit card I have linked if I didn't have sufficient funds.

Thanks for giving us a choice Igor.

That's actually a very valid reply i did not know that as i don't use Skrill myself so i didnt go throughthe experience personally. I'll speak to Skrill about it to at least allow you the setting in your Skrill management module to control this (you should not be having your card debited without you knowing )

 

[Jasminebed]

Ooooh, is one of those currencies CAD?

 

[Igor82]

Indeed it is, AUD too

 

[vinylweatherman]

Since we've had a few requests through CS on the same nature, soon (very soon) you will be able to choose which deposit methods you want to see on your deposit page from your settings (manageable by you) and which type of a specific deposit method you want (1tap or otherwise for example).

We've re-branded (are about to), launched 4 new languages, 3 new currencies, 3 new game achievement structures, TRTP vs RTP tracking (ask and I'll elaborate) - and a host of other nifty features so the update is taking a wee bit of time to do as we want to do it all at once. Bear with us just a little while longer and all these functionalities can be managed by yourselves - just like you can these days remove bonuses yourselves or change their priorities

Part of the problem seems to be that this 1-Tap has not been explained to customers of Skrill, and they are seeing some worrying changes to the setting on their Skrill account after (foolishly) being trusting and just accepting this 1-Tap that they have never heard of before.

If this is something Skrill are rolling out, they should have made sure their customers were given a heads up BEFORE it started appearing out of the blue at merchants.

The worry seems to be that 1-Tap is less secure than the old method, which itself wasn't secure enough to prevent Kasino King from having his Skrill account hacked and cleaned out overnight.

 

[Igor82]

The worry seems to be that 1-Tap is less secure than the old method, which itself wasn't secure enough to prevent Kasino King from having his Skrill account hacked and cleaned out overnight.

Hi VWM, did you try using the system and its full process?

I'm about to write to Skrill with some suggestions so any feedback how they could change the process is appreciated - I'm sure they'll appreciate it also.

Igor

 

[Nifty29]

Part of the problem seems to be that this 1-Tap has not been explained to customers of Skrill, and they are seeing some worrying changes to the setting on their Skrill account after (foolishly) being trusting and just accepting this 1-Tap that they have never heard of before.

If this is something Skrill are rolling out, they should have made sure their customers were given a heads up BEFORE it started appearing out of the blue at merchants.

The worry seems to be that 1-Tap is less secure than the old method, which itself wasn't secure enough to prevent Kasino King from having his Skrill account hacked and cleaned out overnight.

I think you're forgetting the security device available for Skrill users I.e. the security token that generates a random number which you cannot access Skrill without...even if you have all other login information.

I'm pretty sure KK did NOT have one when his account was hacked. It is impossible to hack a Skrill account that has a security token attached without the physical token present.

I'm not sure what this 1-Tap process is, but if it doesn't involve the use of my security token EVERY time I deposit then I'm not going to use it EVER, and will abandon Skrill altogether if they force me to.

I've had my neteller hacked and used as a conduit for fraudsters. Thankfully, I am covered 100% for all losses due to my VIP level. I also employ a couple of other security methods now which I didn't before.

My question is....WHY do we NEED 1-tap to begin with?

 

[AC7X]

I think it is important to note that there WERE connections to other accounts, but nothing could be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. Its a long way from saying "the player/s concerned were totally in the clear and we got it all wrong"....which I'm certain Igor would have said if it were the case.

There were not connections to other accounts. The "reasonable doubt" line was saving face. Believe me, if Igor had found a legitimate way of not paying that withdrawal he wouldn't have paid it.

Add this to the DOB thing....sorry but nobody puts in a completely different DOB...and my spidey sense tells me that something might be/have been going on.

Nobody cares about your spidey sense. Documents have been provided, fraud checks have been conducted, the payment has been processed accordingly. Don't try to muddy the waters with more conjecture (the very thing that you repeatedly accuse another member here of doing).

IMO Igor has closed the account for a good reason.

Correct. He has closed the account because the business relationship has been soured due to all of this controversy on CM. I'm sure neither party will lose any sleep over the account closure.

I'll tell you one thing....most other casinos would have stood their ground and waited for a PAB.

Outcome would have been identical, since there was no fraud at play. I'll refer you back to Simmo's post RE: mountains, molehills and speculation.

 

[Nifty29]

There were not connections to other accounts. The "reasonable doubt" line was saving face. Believe me, if Igor had found a legitimate way of not paying that withdrawal he wouldn't have paid it.



Nobody cares about your spidey sense. Documents have been provided, fraud checks have been conducted, the payment has been processed accordingly. Don't try to muddy the waters with more conjecture (the very thing that you repeatedly accuse another member here of doing).



Correct. He has closed the account because the business relationship has been soured due to all of this controversy on CM. I'm sure neither party will lose any sleep over the account closure.



Outcome would have been identical, since there was no fraud at play. I'll refer you back to Simmo's post RE: mountains, molehills and speculation.

See, this is beauty of forums like this.

I can have MY opinion....you can have YOURS.

The difference between myself and the "others" you refer to is that I do not pass it off as FACT.

Its my OPINION. My spidey sense isn't always right, but it has served me very well here and throughout my life. Hence, I dont give a rats rear end what your opinion of that is...although there seems to be a lot of people who do "care" if reputation points and thanks etc are any guide.

You might also notice if you actually read what I wrote that I didn't accuse you or your "friend" of anything. I just said it doesn't sound right....and IMO it still doesn't. What that means exactly...I dont know...I just know that it doesn't sound right.

I've been trying to think how or in what situation I would put a totally wrong date of birth on my signup form. I could only come up with one, and I'm sure it crossed Igors mind, but I'm not going to say it because its something that is difficult to prove or disprove beyond a reasonable doubt.

You've also accused Igor of lying. He did not say there was NO connections...he said he couldn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Tell you what....if Igor confirms what you say I.e. that there is/was no connection whatsoever involved with other accounts, or any other issue, then I will unreservedly apologize to all concerned. Maybe its what he meant to say...and you're right...but it is not what he said.

I would also be grateful if you could explain the whole DOB thing...or better still, ask your "friend" to tell us what happened. Its not an ongoing dispute with the casino, so it can't hurt.

 

[vinylweatherman]

There were not connections to other accounts. The "reasonable doubt" line was saving face. Believe me, if Igor had found a legitimate way of not paying that withdrawal he wouldn't have paid it.



Nobody cares about your spidey sense. Documents have been provided, fraud checks have been conducted, the payment has been processed accordingly. Don't try to muddy the waters with more conjecture (the very thing that you repeatedly accuse another member here of doing).



Correct. He has closed the account because the business relationship has been soured due to all of this controversy on CM. I'm sure neither party will lose any sleep over the account closure.



Outcome would have been identical, since there was no fraud at play. I'll refer you back to Simmo's post RE: mountains, molehills and speculation.

Whilst innocent, the fact is that your flatmate entered a completely incorrect DOB for what to us are "reasons unknown". Had your flatmate entered his correct date of birth, none of this would have happened, not even the request for a photo of him holding his ID.

Having heightened suspicions by entering an incorrect DOB, everything said after this was under scrutiny, and simple slips of the finger ended up being grounds for suspicion. It's not just Nifty's "spidey senses" that were set off, even mine were once the extent of the DOB issue was revealed, and I ran out of ideas to explain how it could have happened through simple human error.

There is still the feeling that for reasons unknown, your flatmate deliberately entered an incorrect DOB, and even though the casino could find nothing substantive to back up any suspicions, the suspicions are nevertheless there.

You need to impress upon your flatmate the importance of giving correct and complete information when registering at any casino. So long as he only plays where you don't, he shouldn't have any problems doing so from your flat. It might help, however, if he is staying on a permanent basis, to change his electoral roll entry and also his address at the bank and DVLA so that his documents, registration information, and whatever sources casinos use to validate such information, give a consistent picture.

 

[AC7X]

See, this is beauty of forums like this.

I can have MY opinion....you can have YOURS.

The difference between myself and the "others" you refer to is that I do not pass it off as FACT.

Its my OPINION. My spidey sense isn't always right, but it has served me very well here and throughout my life. Hence, I dont give a rats rear end what your opinion of that is...although there seems to be a lot of people who do "care" if reputation points and thanks etc are any guide.

You might also notice if you actually read what I wrote that I didn't accuse you or your "friend" of anything. I just said it doesn't sound right....and IMO it still doesn't. What that means exactly...I dont know...I just know that it doesn't sound right.

That's fine, you're entitled to your opinion. Just as I am entitled to rebuff when your posts are casting aspersions on me after the matter has been resolved.

I've been trying to think how or in what situation I would put a totally wrong date of birth on my signup form. I could only come up with one, and I'm sure it crossed Igors mind, but I'm not going to say it because its something that is difficult to prove or disprove beyond a reasonable doubt.

You've also accused Igor of lying. He did not say there was NO connections...he said he couldn't prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt.

Tell you what....if Igor confirms what you say I.e. that there is/was no connection whatsoever involved with other accounts, or any other issue, then I will unreservedly apologize to all concerned. Maybe its what he meant to say...and you're right...but it is not what he said.

I can say with 100% confidence that I do not hold an account at Bet-At or have any affiliation with them in any sense. If Igor is willing to confirm this then I will gladly receive my apology. (Personally, I'd have thought he'd just want to put this unfortunate misunderstanding to bed and get on with business, but when people continue to breathe life into this dispute it's hard for him to do so).

I would also be grateful if you could explain the whole DOB thing...or better still, ask your "friend" to tell us what happened. Its not an ongoing dispute with the casino, so it can't hurt.

There's no way for me to know for sure how the DOB thing happened. Maybe it's just going to be one of life's mysteries. The fact is that an incorrect DOB was erroneously entered during registration (which admittedly could be cause for suspicion), however the customer's identity and age have now been robustly verified. I don't know why that's so hard to swallow; mistakes happen, ID was proven (many times over), a fraud investigation has turned up nothing (hence the payment).

 

[AC7X]

Whilst innocent, the fact is that your flatmate entered a completely incorrect DOB for what to us are "reasons unknown". Had your flatmate entered his correct date of birth, none of this would have happened, not even the request for a photo of him holding his ID.

True. A mistake was made on registration. I took issue with the suggestion that it couldn't have been a mistake, something only the person completing the form could know for sure.

There is still the feeling that for reasons unknown, your flatmate deliberately entered an incorrect DOB, and even though the casino could find nothing substantive to back up any suspicions, the suspicions are nevertheless there.

Okay, so let's play devil's advocate for a moment.

My flatmate signs up, enters all of his correct information (e-mail address, address, card details, name) but purposefully misrepresents his DOB. What advantage does this convey him? How can he defraud the casino by entering all of his legitimate information and one piece of fraudulent information? Surely he knows that any withdrawal will need to be checked and he'll need to prove his true DOB? Even if I did have an account of my own (which I don't), what would be the advantage of him entering a false DOB whilst retaining all of his other genuine ID information?

The only angle I can think of is that he does this with numerous accounts, using sign-up bonuses each time, until he makes a withdrawal. The problem then is that when he comes to cash out they will realise his incorrect DOB and he will have to prove his ID, but the scam would be obvious since there would be a dozen accounts with the same name, address, e-mail, IP address and differing DOBs.

That, and most SUBs are EV- anyway!

 

[Igor82]

I'm writing a lengthy post on 1-tap and in the meantime i'm getting this dialogue in my e-mail so i'll chime in for the last time as you are quite frankly playing a fool with these people as you are exposed to much more informaiton than they are and you know it. It's not alight.

Seeing as you know your DOB and you know his, and you know the nature of the case from him, you know EXACTLY why the DOB was so off so stop pretending that it's unknown to you. I have no idea what your aim is here, but stop it now. If you continue to persist with half informaiton and barrage of posts now that the case has been clsoed i'll ask you to be ban for being an absolute troll and you know very well why you are being one!

Nifty, Vynil please don't indulge further - I cant disclose the facts of the case and while what happened isn't speculation at all any longer, AC7 is playing the speculative card knowingly. It's a losing battle that's just prolonging the bad PR on my business while my hands are tied in disclosing how come the DOB was off by years and months.

Okay, so let's play devil's advocate for a moment.

My flatmate signs up, enters all of his correct information (e-mail address, address, card details, name) but purposefully misrepresents his DOB. What advantage does this convey him?

I explained this already quite a few posts back: For example, while living together he had access to your credit card and while he put in all your information correctly, by slip of a finger put in HIS birth date. When KYC checks came in he couldn't have posted his KYC since its your card so he used YOUR ID copies to pull a withdrawal. Now this may be with your approval - but you both knew it wasn't going to fly on any casino so you allowed him to use your details. Again, this isn't what happened and i'm not saying it did - but without us knowing, this is a real possibility we need to eliminate.

Remember until this point we didn't know you even existed. We just knew that the guy sending his docs put a lastly wrong DOB which is the rarest of valid sign-up mistakes we've ever had and ONLY comes up on NDB cash-outs when a player would need to change a host of fake info they put in to get their NDB winnings out.

Since his DOB was so off, we asked him to send a pic holding his ID so we can see that the person hold the ID is the person ON the ID. Theres nothing overly complex about that, we didn't have lack of common sense and there was nothing that was done that needed you to come on here and post about his terrible experience while putting

(he put in his DOB wrong, apparently)

in there. That said, he was rejectful of the request for 4 days, which only furthers suspicion.

So I answered your devil's advocate scenario, although i didn't have to - because i believe in transparency which is what worked against me in this case, so thanks for teaching me that lesson. Now I retorted in my next post ( which is still being written) to you in regard to a personal jab and while i expect you to answer again and drag us further through mud on a case that isn't yours, I'd like to concentrate on my players and their experience and i'll let you go on your merry way. Any inflammatory posts will be reported as i said, what happens after that is purely up to you.

 

[Igor82]

Welllll A$$!!! lost a huge draft on 1-tap, SSL encryption and how it all works which would benefit EVERYONE, including Skrill over this phantom case.

Anyone know how to pull back an auto-saved draft? Please tell me it's possible.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Go to a new reply window and see if you have a 'Restore Auto-Saved Content' button.

 

[Igor82]

nope, it's gone - i'll rewrite it though. It's worth a read.

 

[Igor82]

1-tap

There were not connections to other accounts. The "reasonable doubt" line was saving face. Believe me, if Igor had found a legitimate way of not paying that withdrawal he wouldn't have paid it.

There is no saving face here. I think you are trying to provoke me to expose the information we uncovered which was PM'd to you so that the rest of the community rallies behind you for giving away private information. I have a few usernames/nicknames in my system (not KYC'd and used a few NDB bonines only) which are extremely similar to some of the nicknames you use with other accounts on-line but I could not correlate a connection that is defendable against a PAB or LGA without reasonable doubt so i used my words very carefully. I seriously suggest you stop the provocation, especially in your line:

Believe me, if Igor had found a legitimate way of not paying that withdrawal he wouldn't have paid it.

seeing as I've sent you a PM very early on, that goes VERBATIM:

"Two things can happen: We find him guilty of fraud and his deposits will be returned and his account closed. Or we don't find him guilty of fraud and his winnings will be paid and account closed none the less."

Now, since you exposed in your original post that his winnings are at break-even with his withdrawals, i am allowed to say that the money paid would have been the same in either case - and you knew that and had it in writing from me; but still chose to inflame the audience and myself by saying if i could, i wouldn't pay. Definition of a troll post frankly.

The only reason I drag this on is because my integrity and the integrity of my business is far more important to me than any withdrawal could ever be, especially since fraudulent or not, the cost to my business on this case is the same. Might want to think about that...

Refer to my previous post about further discussion on the topic.

Moving on..

1 TAP!! (again)

First of all, there was question about the security of 1-tap itself. And that deems a worthy exercise to answer how secure you are when transacting overall? We employ a 256-bit encryption across our entire website, including images and static content. It is as secure as we could commercially get.

You can see the security level of a site by clicking on the little padlock icon next to the address window. In Chrome for example, that would look like this:



Now for the less versed reading this, 128-bit encryption is the minim required from your bank to allow you to transact on-line. A lot of banks and casinos use a 128-bit encryption as it is more than sufficient to protect any information from being hacked in its travels. We opted for a 256-bit which is twice as secure.

It is the absolute maximum level of security purchasable commercially and it allows us to communicate to payment methods and game providers remotely knowing that if someone did have a possibility to intercepting an information packet, they wouldn't be able to see the contents without a few years of algorithm cracking.

Some more info for whoever is interested in reading about security:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I pulled this form there:

In June 2003, the U.S. Government announced that AES could be used to protect classified information:
The design and strength of all key lengths of the AES algorithm (i.e., 128, 192 and 256) are sufficient to protect classified information up to the SECRET level. TOP SECRET information will require use of either the 192 or 256 key lengths. The implementation of AES in products intended to protect national security systems and/or information must be reviewed and certified by NSA prior to their acquisition and use.[10]

It's good enough for the US government, so it's good enough for us Frankly, if you do play at an on-line, flash based casino and that padlock isn't present with a minimum 128-bit encryption, I would sincerely not recommend that you continue.

So why 1-tap?

Frankly i just went through the process and while i see the benefit of making it a click lighter, i did not find the original process overly cumbersome to begin with. What I think Skrill did aim to do, is provide operators an easy way to integrate a deposit field in-game which is what we are about to do, which will allow you to put in your amount + bonnie and click deposit/confirm without having to go to the deposit page and travel to the Skrill interface window.

How does it work and is it secure?


I took a customer journey myself and a customer that deposits with Skrill for the very first time on the site will have to go through the usual process:

1. Choose Skrill, deposit, bonnie, etc - Click on "I have an account already", and insert your details.
2. Next window will inform you that you are about to activate 1-tap and let you choose your funding method (wallet or debit card), this looks like so:



now it's important to note that the setting are saved for future use there. Meaning,

@threescatters - you SHOULD NOT be having 1-tap enabled for all other operators. If you see the screen it says you have enabled it for NRR entertainment. If you are experiencing this protocol to be enabled for other operators please PM me so i can take it up to Skrill as that should not be the case.

@Jasmine - you should be able to choose e-wallet as your funding solution and Skrill should not automatically debit your card if empty. The balance on the Skrill account i am using is too high to be able to deplete it for testing. I will chase this up with Skrill and find out the answer.

3. You confirm your first deposit. This looks like so:



*************************

So what happens next? A secure encrypted token connection is created between the merchant and the account. Effectively what this means is that you now only have the purple 1-tap skill button that you need to click which is hosted in a tiny iframe page on the Skrill servers and you don't have to insert your password every time because the system already recognises you.

When you click that, Skrill would ask us for the secure token you initially created and the amount you are asking to deposit, in reply we would send your secure token to Skrill with the amount required and Skrill would process the payment to our merchant.

In terms of security, its just as secure as inserting your Skrill password on every deposit, given that no one else knows your Casino password of course - which is also secured and stored 256-bit encrypted. In fact, when you ask us to reset your password we give you a link to do it yourself because we literally cannot see it or de-crypt it.

This entire product will allow a tiny one-tap button within the frame of the game to let you put in the amount and click without having to interrupt game play and migrate to the deposit frame.

On the actual deposit page, once you have 1-tap enabled your deposits (after choosing bonnie and putting the amount) look like this:



****************************************

i hope above covers your security questions. While i'll be forwarding the cases of Jasmine and scatters - guys any info uncovered by you while testing whether 1-tap appears on other operators and whether it charges your card when wallet is empty is highly appreciated.

best,

Igor

 

[AC7X]

Seeing as you know your DOB and you know his, and you know the nature of the case from him, you know EXACTLY why the DOB was so off so stop pretending that it's unknown to you. I have no idea what your aim is here, but stop it now. If you continue to persist with half informaiton and barrage of posts now that the case has been clsoed i'll ask you to be ban for being an absolute troll and you know very well why you are being one!

My aim is to rebuff insinuation that I am involved in fraud. Following on from your post entitled "Update" I said nothing further on the matter (other than to agree with dunover that I was not guilty of anything).

I explained this already quite a few posts back: For example, while living together he had access to your credit card and while he put in all your information correctly, by slip of a finger put in HIS birth date. When KYC checks came in he couldn't have posted his KYC since its your card so he used YOUR ID copies to pull a withdrawal. Now this may be with your approval - but you both knew it wasn't going to fly on any casino so you allowed him to use your details. Again, this isn't what happened and i'm not saying it did - but without us knowing, this is a real possibility we need to eliminate.

I understood and appreciated your explanation, which explained to me why you believed the additional check of him holding the license was necessary. However, VWM posed his question knowing that my flatmate's details were his own other than the DOB. So no identity theft in this case. My devil's advocate scenario was based on the assumption that the account belonged to my flatmate and he purposely entered an incorrect DOB to get over on the casino.

Since his DOB was so off, we asked him to send a pic holding his ID so we can see that the person hold the ID is the person ON the ID. Theres nothing overly complex about that, we didn't have lack of common sense and there was nothing that was done that needed you to come on here and post about his terrible experience while putting in there. That said, he was rejectful of the request for 4 days, which only furthers suspicion.

Presumably he wasn't complying at the time because you were insistent on it being a passport and he didn't have his passport to hand. I think I'm right in saying that as soon as I communicated to him that his driving license would be acceptable he sent it straight off.

There is no saving face here. I think you are trying to provoke me to expose the information we uncovered which was PM'd to you so that the rest of the community rallies behind you for giving away private information. I have a few usernames/nicknames in my system (not KYC'd and used a few NDB bonines only) which are extremely similar to some of the nicknames you use with other accounts on-line but I could not correlate a connection that is defendable against a PAB or LGA without reasonable doubt so i used my words very carefully.

This is straight-up bollocks. There are other usernames in your system which have some tenuous correlation to usernames which you believe are mine on other websites? Are you serious? I do not have an account at Bet-At. Any other similar username is pure coincidence. Unless you have proof that I have multiple accounts, stop alluding to people that I do.

The reason you need to save face is because you made so much noise about this whole thing; calling my flatmate a liar, insinuating that I'm involved in fraud, trawling through posts to "catch me out" because I said the postage would cost "me", etc etc and in the end you found no evidence of foul play. If you had been able to find any evidence of fraud you would have posted that here to make your suspicions look justified, making yourself appear as the shrewd casino manager who found out a couple of scam artists. When you found nothing, you posted this "reasonable doubt" tosh to avoid admitting that you were wrong about all of your wild accusations.

Again: I. Do. Not. Have. An. Account. With. Bet-At.

I seriously suggest you stop the provocation, especially in your line:

seeing as I've sent you a PM very early on, that goes VERBATIM:

"Two things can happen: We find him guilty of fraud and his deposits will be returned and his account closed. Or we don't find him guilty of fraud and his winnings will be paid and account closed none the less."

Now, since you exposed in your original post that his winnings are at break-even with his withdrawals, i am allowed to say that the money paid would have been the same in either case - and you knew that and had it in writing from me; but still chose to inflame the audience and myself by saying if i could, i wouldn't pay. Definition of a troll post frankly.

You said, verbatim: "When the checks are complete, either we will close his account, or pay him and close his account."

Not the same thing.

The only reason I drag this on is because my integrity and the integrity of my business is far more important to me than any withdrawal could ever be, especially since fraudulent or not, the cost to my business on this case is the same. Might want to think about that...

I did think about that. It's ridiculous that you would expose yourself to so much potential negative PR for pennies (and pennies that didn't even represent a loss to your business). I don't know why you've done that, but you have. It seems that you let it get personal on the forums.

And please note that I'm not the one dragging it on, I even said as much to Nifty:

I can say with 100% confidence that I do not hold an account at Bet-At or have any affiliation with them in any sense. If Igor is willing to confirm this then I will gladly receive my apology. (Personally, I'd have thought he'd just want to put this unfortunate misunderstanding to bed and get on with business, but when people continue to breathe life into this dispute it's hard for him to do so).

IMO, by not admitting that I don't have an account (to save face), you're continuing to drag this on.

 

[dunover]

He will not be getting paid because "we stuck our necks out" - he will be getting paid because he finally did what was required of him to do to ensure the fake information that he included at registration is not an act of trying to deceive the casino, but an act of negligence. The only person that stuck their neck out here is me: a new rep foolishly thinking that transparency rules every situation.

I think you misunderstood me - I was referring to the fact you had promised/decided to pay the man before I made that post, whatever your decision to pay was based on. Therefore publicly announcing you are paying the man would make it hard for you to renege on that decision. Sorry!

 

[Igor82]

Yawn... You're just being a jerk. I cant disclose any evidence and you know that so saying that i would have posted if i found this or that is just aimed at aggravating me. Bryan was informed from day one, maxd too and Simmo soon after with an update and step by step on what has gone on on our end and our intentions including telling them that if i don't receive what i need to receive his deposits will be returned and his win invalidated.

 

[dunover]

Seriously folks, the man's been paid, the relationship between you guys now means no accounts to be held with Bet-at.eu by either of the flatmates now or in future. We can see the reasons why both sides are pissed, and it can now only go round in circles as a public exchange of increasingly hostile comments. Time to let this go gentlemen??? There can be no winners here.

 

[Simmo!]

Seriously folks, the man's been paid, the relationship between you guys now means no accounts to be held with Bet-at.eu by either of the flatmates now or in future. We can see the reasons why both sides are pissed, and it can now only go round in circles as a public exchange of increasingly hostile comments. Time to let this go gentlemen??? There can be no winners here.

Agreed. Time to move on and get back to the business of BoF. Everyone has enough info to make up their own minds so further posts on this issue will be stuck into moderation.

 

[leonardo99]

I think you have a little display error..just sent you an PM Igor..

 

[Dinahnana]

withdraw times

Hi Igor does Bet-at-eu process withdrawals to ewallets on weekends. I have a withdrawal pending since Friday night. This is my second withdrawal with Bet-at-eu and all my KYC documents were verified for the first withdrawal. On website it states withdrawals are usually processed in 24 hours.

 

[Igor82]

We do process on weekends. Username please?

 

[Dinahnana]

We do process on weekends. Username please?

PM sent

 

[peezo13]

Getting error all the time

 

[Dinahnana]

Hi Igor does Bet-at-eu process withdrawals to ewallets on weekends. I have a withdrawal pending since Friday night. This is my second withdrawal with Bet-at-eu and all my KYC documents were verified for the first withdrawal. On website it states withdrawals are usually processed in 24 hours.

I contacted Igor regarding my cashout. There was a slight glitch but he sorted it out and payment was received this morning along with an extra 15 for my trouble which was a pleasant surprise. :notworthy Igor rocks. Thanks

 

[Igor82]

Getting error all the time

Peezo - checked API logs - games are flying and you aren't frozen in back end systems and no bet cancelled (which happens with error 2 often).

What error are you getting? PM me so i can work through this with you - there is nothing i can find on surface of things and no other complaints were put forward.

@osulle - thanks!

 

[lotusch]

Hi Igor,

Got this e-mail yesterday but cannot find the bonusfunds added into my account.

Mark,

We've credited your account with €10! We are also doubling the first deposit you make until Wednesday with our exclusive double the fun with no max bet offer. Simply select "DOUBLE UP" on the deposit window to claim it!

Your username: xxxxxxx

 

[awesomexd]

Hi Igor,

Got this e-mail yesterday but cannot find the bonusfunds added into my account.

I got an email too

CS said it was sent by mistake >_<

 

[Igor82]

The system automatically resends emails that get registered as 'unopened' - it usually tracks who logged in and got the bonus and eliminates them from the re-mail list. This time that protocol fell through so a number of customers go re-mailed while they had already claimed the NDB.

We caught on what caused it and we made sure it doesn't happen again. Whoever claimed the NDB on Friday wasnt due another

Sorry to get your hopes up guys

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So now, let's say the aim is to hit a €2,000 + round.

at 100% RTP - odds of say x2000 win happening on a single €1 pay line bet are exactly 2000/1, which played as 25 lines per spin make those odds exactly 2000/(1*25) = 40 odd spins.

At 96% game engine RTP which as you stated yourself is unique to each individual spin and winning on one spin bares no relevance to another - this gives the spin odd of 40/0.96=41.66 which are exactly 41.66 in 1 odds for a spin to engineer a win of that value. or to put it differently, it would take 42 spins to almost guarantee it.

So now we know that it will take 42 spins for this kind of payout to be expected to happen, right? on average of course...

I've read and re-read this section of the post several times and it still doesn't make sense to me.

How on earth do you conclude that 42 spins would almost guarantee a x2000 win on a single payline? Unless you knew the exact odds of any spin on a given slot, you have no way whatsoever of knowing this, and it also wouldn't make it a 96% RTP slot - I really don't understand your maths on this.

On top of that, a bonus is either EV+ or EV- based on random expected return over a very large number of results at the stated RTP of the games in question versus the bonus and WR, repeating the experiment an infinite number of times simply returns the expected results and eliminates the effects of volatility.

That's not to say that the player can't play a bonus in a certain way to massively increase the variance and his chance of hitting big or busting out horribly (similar to how Martingale in roulette increases the variance but can never affect RTP or the randomness of the game), but it doesn't change the long-term odds for the casino, if the bonus is EV- (i.e. it's in the casino's favour) then that's all there is to it.

By all means say you don't like the idea of a single player or group of players working together to potentially cause a big spike of losses for your casino, but please don't try to suggest that there's a way to make an EV- bonus magically become EV+ if enough people join together and play it in a certain fashion. The method you've outlined above increases the variance for both the player and the casino, with the potential for wins and losses increased for both, but it doesn't change RTP and randomness.

I'd also like to know where you're getting the idea that a 200% bonus on a 40xB WR is 'fairly common'.

 

[dionysus]

(carried over from wrong thread

Igor -are your processors eating $ off the top still from coverting funds? I depped twice last night in CAD and got CAD funds, but it took more from Skrill than what I depped. I thought it was something that was resolved but it seems like it's still doing the cad to gpb to cad..but I've no way of knowing - it used to tell you if it did that when you went to dep, but with your new i-tap only skrill option, you dont find out til after funds go in

follow-up: hmm, Igor says they havent launched CAD yet, so I assume my account then is USD and the funds loss is conversion rate? My bad - I thought my acct was CAD

 

[Igor82]

(carried over from wrong thread

Igor -are your processors eating $ off the top still from coverting funds? I depped twice last night in CAD and got CAD funds, but it took more from Skrill than what I depped. I thought it was something that was resolved but it seems like it's still doing the cad to gpb to cad..but I've no way of knowing - it used to tell you if it did that when you went to dep, but with your new i-tap only skrill option, you dont find out til after funds go in

follow-up: hmm, Igor says they havent launched CAD yet, so I assume my account then is USD and the funds loss is conversion rate? My bad - I thought my acct was CAD

You got to change your account to CAD and you can only do that with our help As soon as we launch i'll get in touch.

Chopley, i'll reply tomorrow in detail on this - no time.

in short overview: 2000 to 1, 5000 to 1 - odds are irrelevant - it was just an example and the maths are always the same.

1 to 1 (flip of a coin) is still odds of 1 to 1. At 100% rtp odds of a 5000e win on 1e bet - is 5000 to 1 (because there is no edge - even odds). at 96% rtp odds of 5000 win on 1e bet are 5000/0.96=5208 to 1.

32red's 160% match offer is 30xb for example so 40xb is not far fetched and i'm sure if you look around you'll find plenty.

 

[vinylweatherman]

You got to change your account to CAD and you can only do that with our help As soon as we launch i'll get in touch.

Chopley, i'll reply tomorrow in detail on this - no time.

in short overview: 2000 to 1, 5000 to 1 - odds are irrelevant - it was just an example and the maths are always the same.

1 to 1 (flip of a coin) is still odds of 1 to 1. At 100% rtp odds of a 5000e win on 1e bet - is 5000 to 1 (because there is no edge - even odds). at 96% rtp odds of 5000 win on 1e bet are 5000/0.96=5208 to 1.

32red's 160% match offer is 30xb for example so 40xb is not far fetched and i'm sure if you look around you'll find plenty.

Only if there are no wins between that one 5000 possibility and zero. Slots are not like this. The odds of getting the jackpot combination on a given payline is of the order of millions to one, but the top payout represents a modest fraction of the RTP. Most of the RTP comes from the lesser wins. If a slot was a 1 in 5000 chance of winning 5000, but a 1 in 4999 chance of winning nothing, it would still be 100% RTP, but no one would be interested.

The closest we get in a real casino game to this scenario is the number bet on Roulette. It's a 1 in 37 chance of winning 36x stake, but a 36 in 37 chance of winning nothing.

 

[lnspin]

You got to change your account to CAD and you can only do that with our help As soon as we launch i'll get in touch.

Chopley, i'll reply tomorrow in detail on this - no time.

in short overview: 2000 to 1, 5000 to 1 - odds are irrelevant - it was just an example and the maths are always the same.

1 to 1 (flip of a coin) is still odds of 1 to 1. At 100% rtp odds of a 5000e win on 1e bet - is 5000 to 1 (because there is no edge - even odds). at 96% rtp odds of 5000 win on 1e bet are 5000/0.96=5208 to 1.

32red's 160% match offer is 30xb for example so 40xb is not far fetched and i'm sure if you look around you'll find plenty.

00% Untrue.. How about all the little wins in between.. Might be a million to one to hit that top paying symbol that pays 5k to 1.. You have to remember all the $10, $20 , 100$ wins in between...

 

[nikantw]

The method you've outlined above increases the variance for both the player and the casino, with the potential for wins and losses increased for both, but it doesn't change RTP and randomness.

Math on statistics are tricky!

I was thinking the same thing with you today (what they say about great minds?!)

But there is another factor to it, a very important one for the casino.

The average player will continue playing after meeting the wagering requirements, and will eventually lose. On the other hand, any member of a collided group is most likely to withdraw immediately after meeting the WR.

 

[dionysus]

I'm glad there's all the techies and mathemagicians here ..I can just read and sit here looking pretty

 

[Igor82]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't each winning bet ( in proportion to bet size xbet as we say here) inherently carry RTP value?

Each spin is completely random and individual and the combination of paying symbols hitting would mathematically carry relevant odds of happening. Variance comes into play here but at zero variance following should be true (I'm asking) if bet is always 1e per line and RTP is 96%:

Line win of 10 has 10/0.96 odds = 10.4 in 1

Line win of 100 retrospectively carries odds of 104 in 1 and so on.

Little wins don't influence a chance of a big win because the game source code carries the inherit odds of winning. Volatility simply eliminates frequency of smaller xbet payouts for a chance for massive ones, or to putbit differently would have less x10, x30, x50 bets but would have x1000, x2000 potential payouts.

By saying that we need to take all the smaller wins in consideration between the first and the 5000th bet you contradict the trusty that each spin is 100% random and more importantly independent of one another.

Odds of each spin are relatively the same which is the margin advantage odds toward the casino - what denominated its hit frequency is the xbet size payout, no?

Edit: actually I just ran an algorithmic probability formula and you're right: if each 10x, 20x, 50x bet and so on is paid out, mathematically the 5000x bet needs to increase its odds of hitting so the slot doesn't compound the win amounts.

However, that just answered my question as to why do colluders always choose games of high volatility together: because the game doesn't have many small wins meaning that the high payout isn't proportionally increased in its odds too much aka. The slot will 'swallow' until it hits big.

I know it's profitable as we see syndicates at work all the time and they ALWAYS profit - sometimes we catch them, sometimes we catch one and back link to 3-4 others we would connect and realise we paid them x or y amount. When you look at their gameplay it always makes sense.

Ill look at specific round win probability from info i have and draw a formula tomorrow.

 

[AC7X]

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't each winning bet ( in proportion to bet size xbet as we say here) inherently carry RTP value?

Each spin is completely random and individual and the combination of paying symbols hitting would mathematically carry relevant odds of happening. Variance comes into play here but at zero variance following should be true (I'm asking) if bet is always 1e per line and RTP is 96%:

Line win of 10 has 10/0.96 odds = 10.4 in 1

Line win of 100 retrospectively carries odds of 104 in 1 and so on.

Little wins don't influence a chance of a big win because the game source code carries the inherit odds of winning. Volatility simply eliminates frequency of smaller xbet payouts for a chance for massive ones, or to putbit differently would have less x10, x30, x50 bets but would have x1000, x2000 potential payouts.

By saying that we need to take all the smaller wins in consideration between the first and the 5000th bet you contradict the trusty that each spin is 100% random and more importantly independent of one another.

Odds of each spin are relatively the same which is the margin advantage odds toward the casino - what denominated its hit frequency is the xbet size payout, no?

The odds of hitting wins are nowhere near that good, and the formula isn't that simple. You have to consider each and every win as part of the RTP, if you considered them all separately you would end up with an RTP way above 100%. You can't get a 100x line win once in every 104 spins and a line win of 10x once in every 10.4 spins (and a 1000x win in every 1040 spins and a 10,000x win in every 10,400).

EDIT TO ADD: The slot can remain random, and each spin independent from the last, because the odds of hitting x1000 are way longer than 1000/0.96.

 

[Igor82]

The odds of hitting wins are nowhere near that good, and the formula isn't that simple. You have to consider each and every win as part of the RTP, if you considered them all separately you would end up with an RTP way above 100%. You can't get a 100x line win once in every 104 spins and a line win of 10x once in every 10.4 spins (and a 1000x win in every 1040 spins and a 10,000x win in every 10,400).

EDIT TO ADD: The slot can remain random, and each spin independent from the last, because the odds of hitting x1000 are way longer than 1000/0.96.

I ran the algorithm and got over 100rtp when wins are compounded (i updated my thread as you types)but that's exactly why the volatility of the slot itself is so important. It is mathematically not only probable, but with enough players any odds with Bonnie taken per player can be guaranteed.

 

[dionysus]

call me thick - but I'm still lost.
If a large group unrdertook this, and one finally acheived a plus 100% RTP, does it matter? wouldn't all the losing accounts negate that win anyway and it would still all level out? (again, this is why I don't do mathy-things)

 

[AC7X]

call me thick - but I'm still lost.
If a large group unrdertook this, and one finally acheived a plus 100% RTP, does it matter? wouldn't all the losing accounts negate that win anyway and it would still all level out? (again, this is why I don't do mathy-things)

The only way that I can see it is this:

Scenario 1: 1 person signs up to a 100% match-up on 30xB and deposits £500. They have £1000 to play with and a WR of £15,000. For arguments sake let's say they hit a big win, they have a big WR to meet and they might well bust out playing against the house edge.

Scenario 2: 5 people sign up to a 100% match on 30xB and deposit £100 each. They each have £200 to play with but only a £3,000 WR. Between them they have the same chance of hitting the big win, but the account that hits it will have a much smaller WR to play through, and therefore a greater chance of getting out with more of the win intact.

I think that makes sense.

 

[De Beuker]

As much as I promised myself to never play MG flash again, after all the good comments here and the improvements made I decided to give it a go and signed up yesterday.
I also love the fact that if you take a bonus, as long as you havent used the bonusmoney you can play whatever you want and cashout whenever you want, only forfeiting the bonus.

And the games ran smooth, no disconnects, no errors and lo lags worth mentioning.

And I played an awesome session. €60.- deposit with €60.- bonus, but never needed the bonusmoney.
Started with Hitman at 0.60, finished at 160.- , then Megaspins BDBA at 0.36 per machine, 1.44 total bet, hit the papermoneys in normal play but lost the screenshot because a few spins later I got freespins and got 4 jewels with wild. Overwrote the previous screenshot..



Paid another 150.-

Then on to Adventure Palace, 0.45 per spin, and hit an amazing freespinround with 4 wilds.
Went too fast to take the screenie, but with that one I even made it to the winners wall!!



Played some more on Centre Court, TDK and managed to get my balance to €800.- then cashed out.
So 60.- in, 800.- out and an RTP of 212% :notworthy

But win or lose, I think with Igor as an active rep. who can actually get things done, even from Microgaming, I think Bet-at-EU is a more than worthy addition to the Accredited section here.

Igor, I havent had a documents request yet, can I just upload my picture ID card and a recent bankstatement?
I dont get any paper utility bills.

 

[Igor82]

Played some more on Centre Court, TDK and managed to get my balance to €800.- then cashed out.
So 60.- in, 800.- out and an RTP of 212% :notworthy

Nice one

Igor, I havent had a documents request yet, can I just upload my picture ID card and a recent bankstatement?
I dont get any paper utility bills.

PM with the list of the docs you don't think you are able to provide so we can work through it. As long as your bank statement is being sent to your registered account address it serves as proof of address as much as your utility bill does