Beginning of the end for Israeli players ?

dd99

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
Tel Aviv
I think Empire Poker (?) was the first to stop accepting Israeli players, but that was because of business interests in Israel (I think they bought a company here ?)

Today I got this in the mail:

"It is with sincere regret that we must inform you that,
due to recent events, Israeli players will no longer be
able to place bets or fund their Belle Rock Entertainment
gaming accounts.

And so xxx, it is with much regret that we have to inform you
that within 24 hours from February 1st 17h00 (IST) your account(s)
and the gaming software, will no longer be accessible."

and then this:

"We regret that we will not be able to process any transactions to or
from your personal accounts. This is due to our e-commerce processor not
being able to accommodate players in your region.

As a result, we, unfortunately, had to close your Casino account.
Please visit the Fortune Lounge website frequently, as the situation may
change and you may be allowed to play again in future."
.

F$%^&.... The long arm of the Israeli Ministry of Justice ?? What is going on here ?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Money

I think Empire Poker (?) was the first to stop accepting Israeli players, but that was because of business interests in Israel (I think they bought a company here ?)

Today I got this in the mail:

"It is with sincere regret that we must inform you that,
due to recent events, Israeli players will no longer be
able to place bets or fund their Belle Rock Entertainment
gaming accounts.

And so xxx, it is with much regret that we have to inform you
that within 24 hours from February 1st 17h00 (IST) your account(s)
and the gaming software, will no longer be accessible."

and then this:

"We regret that we will not be able to process any transactions to or
from your personal accounts. This is due to our e-commerce processor not
being able to accommodate players in your region.

As a result, we, unfortunately, had to close your Casino account.
Please visit the Fortune Lounge website frequently, as the situation may
change and you may be allowed to play again in future."
.

F$%^&.... The long arm of the Israeli Ministry of Justice ?? What is going on here ?

Have fortune lounge "stolen" your money by failing to give sufficient notice to put your account in order?
Casinos seem to have had it in for Israeli players for a while, seeming to brand them a bunch of "bonus abusers" and "account fraudsters".
Clearly, other countries have been influenced by the success of the USA in effectively killing online casinos without actually making them illegal, simply by cutting the flow of funds.

Perhaps the UK is destined for another wave of "asylum seekers" - players who need to come to a country where they are not persecuted or have their money stolen if they gamble online.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
This may be related to a precedent setting ruling (for Israel) by an Israeli judge last week (see news report from Casinomeister News below.)

The case revolved around the advertising activities of the Victor Chandler group which has been enjoying good business in Israel despite the obvious desire of Israeli enforcement officials and the AG to put a stop to Internet gambling.

IMPORTANT LEGAL DECISION FOR ONLINE GAMBLING IN ISRAEL

Court says that foreign online gambling companies must reject Israeli gamblers

The Israeli business publication Globes Online says that an important legal ruling handed down this week by an Israeli judge could have consequences for foreign gambling companies based outside Israel.

Israeli Judge Abraham Heiman said that online gambling sites may not hide behind the fact that the company and its servers are located in another country.

A foreign company operating an online gambling site may not hide behind the fact that the company and its servers are registered and located in another country, and it is breaking the law if does not block access to Israelis, said the judge in the Rishon LeZion Magistrates Court.

Judge Heiman's ruling was in respect of a case against Victor Chandler CEO Michael Carlton. Heiman said, “In the era of the Internet, the original location of content (Internet services) is marginal and negligible. The centre of gravity, especially the territorial legal jurisdiction, must switch to the end point, in other words, the individual computer.”
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
All very well

This may be related to a precedent setting ruling (for Israel) by an Israeli judge last week (see news report from Casinomeister News below.)

The case revolved around the advertising activities of the Victor Chandler group which has been enjoying good business in Israel despite the obvious desire of Israeli enforcement officials and the AG to put a stop to Internet gambling.

IMPORTANT LEGAL DECISION FOR ONLINE GAMBLING IN ISRAEL

Court says that foreign online gambling companies must reject Israeli gamblers

The Israeli business publication Globes Online says that an important legal ruling handed down this week by an Israeli judge could have consequences for foreign gambling companies based outside Israel.

Israeli Judge Abraham Heiman said that online gambling sites may not hide behind the fact that the company and its servers are located in another country.

A foreign company operating an online gambling site may not hide behind the fact that the company and its servers are registered and located in another country, and it is breaking the law if does not block access to Israelis, said the judge in the Rishon LeZion Magistrates Court.

Judge Heiman's ruling was in respect of a case against Victor Chandler CEO Michael Carlton. Heiman said, In the era of the Internet, the original location of content (Internet services) is marginal and negligible. The centre of gravity, especially the territorial legal jurisdiction, must switch to the end point, in other words, the individual computer.

All very well, but since when did Israel rule the internet. Many Israeli actions in the past have been in breach of international law, but that didn't stop them. Their intelligence services have been blamed for many kidnappings of persons wanted in Israel from foreign countries, and the "centre of gravity" for the persons concerned was their own adopted country. They seem to have the same attitude as the USA, and should pass a law stopping financial transactions, which would most likely have the same effect given what is now happening in the US.
 

dd99

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
Tel Aviv
Palace Group as well now....

Hi there XXX,

Account number: xx

Due to the new gaming law coming into effect in Isreal we have no
alternative but to suspend accepting deposits into your casino account,
with immediate effect.

In addition, your account is now locked.

Having provided many years of fair, honest and enjoyable gaming, it is
with deep regret that we are forced to take this course of action.

Note: should you have a remaining balance in your cash account once it
has been locked, please contact our support staff to arrange for the
funds to be paid via a method of your choice.

We would like to personally thank you for your loyalty.

Should you require any further assistance, please contact our help desk
as our operators are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your
convenience.

Kind regards,

Andrea
Customer Service Representative

The Palace Group Support

www.thepalacegroupgaming.com
 

dd99

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
Tel Aviv
Also..

All very well, but since when did Israel rule the internet. Many Israeli actions in the past have been in breach of international law, but that didn't stop them. Their intelligence services have been blamed for many kidnappings of persons wanted in Israel from foreign countries, and the "centre of gravity" for the persons concerned was their own adopted country. They seem to have the same attitude as the USA, and should pass a law stopping financial transactions, which would most likely have the same effect given what is now happening in the US.

That's not very relevant - show me any country that hasn't done similar.

What would be interesting to know is why casinos seem to be imposing these restrictions on themselves ?
Could US (or Israeli...) legal action affect an operator in Antigua ?
Palace group is in Kahnawake, Bellerock in Gibraltar - am still trying to understand why they would self-impose this ban....
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Trying

That's not very relevant - show me any country that hasn't done similar.

What would be interesting to know is why casinos seem to be imposing these restrictions on themselves ?
Could US (or Israeli...) legal action affect an operator in Antigua ?
Palace group is in Kahnawake, Bellerock in Gibraltar - am still trying to understand why they would self-impose this ban....

Countries have tried, but failed (until recently), to impose their law on the internet. The ONLY thing different now is that the US appear to have succeeded by bullying tactics. Israel have wanted to do the same, and the success of the US has made them bolder. Casinos that left the US have been critisized for seeming to obey the law when the US says so, but ignore it when a small country wants to ban online gambling. It seems now they are being consitent by banning players from any country that pursues anti-gambling laws with any vigour. I would expect a ban on South Korean players to follow. Like Israel, South Korea have strong defensive ties with the US. Possibly, these countries are enhancing such actions as they know the US wants rid of these online casinos anyway.
Before this, China succeeded in gaining agreement from the international companies that provide internet services to design a product capable of censoring the net based on where the user lives. The US will most likely implement this technology to block undesirable content, but will make sure the content is either univerally abhorrent, like forms of pornography, or to do with online gambling.
 

jsp377

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Before this, China succeeded in gaining agreement from the international companies that provide internet services to design a product capable of censoring the net based on where the user lives. The US will most likely implement this technology to block undesirable content, but will make sure the content is either universally abhorrent, like forms of pornography, or to do with online gambling.

This would almost certainly be a violation of the first amendment, and would be stricken down by SCOTUS within a couple of years after passing (forget implementation). Specifically, in the US the legal definition of "pornography" and the line which separates it from art is based on community standards*, so cannot be implemented on the national level.

Besides the fact, a lot of American industry -- not just Google or Microsoft, but any company which relies on speedy international data transfers -- would go absolutely apesh*t over a piece of legislation like that.

*There are three standards which must be met for something to qualify as pornography, the first of which reads:
(a) whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest, Kois v. Wisconsin, supra, at 230, quoting Roth v. United States, supra, at 489
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
For information, the Ops Director at Carmen Media (BelleRock's parent) has confirmed that henceforth Israeli players will be barred as a consequence of the Israeli ruling.
 

dd99

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
Tel Aviv
Visa transactions restricted

Things have become a lot more difficult now.

Visa has got its act together and is not allowing transactions to online casinos. Moneybookers as well....

US, here we come...
 

Tester

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Israel
Bellrock are still sending promo letters to Israeli players........

But with the mounting amount of spam for stock picks and manhood improvement, getting spam from casinos is starting to feel like fresh air:lolup:
 

Chatmaster

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Location
South Africa
What makes me angry is the fact that many would see this as victories. The fact that the US "apparently" are having success is hiding the FACT that only the legit and reliable casinos are pulling out. The corrupt ones will stay and find payment methods to continue business as usual. The same is happening in Israel, are these people born stupid!

I believe the case of the US is plain and simple money related. It is worth the sacrifice to have millions loose their money at thieving casinos until the land based casinos can take over the US market. What on earth is Israel's case? All I see is a judge that doesn't understand the function of the internet or have a clear understanding of how online gambling works.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Or one who is trying to establish a judicial precedent that could have serious implications regarding the Internet - that the transaction or activity is deemed to take place on the PC of the user rather than on the server (which might be elsewhere)

dd99 do you have a link to that statement about Paddy Power?
 

Tester

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Location
Israel
Whether an online activity is haooening on the PC or on the server etc, has been a matter of various and contradictory judical ruling in many countries.

This ruling is nothing exceptional. Just another judge vocing his personal side.
That is what I can remember.

Or one who is trying to establish a judicial precedent that could have serious implications regarding the Internet - that the transaction or activity is deemed to take place on the PC of the user rather than on the server (which might be elsewhere)

dd99 do you have a link to that statement about Paddy Power?
 

dd99

Newbie member
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Location
Tel Aviv
dd99 do you have a link to that statement about Paddy Power?

I was told over the phone.

About Israel's case - there is a state-owned gambling monopoly in Israel (lottery, pools, lotto, some slots...) the proceeds of which are spent on community projects, sports, and oh yes - big fat executive salaries and maintaining the system.

Unsurprisingly, the govt wants to protect its (20% taxable) monopoly. Plus, of course, protecting us from ourselves...
 
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