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Beginning of the end for Israeli players ?

Discussion in 'Casino Industry Discussion' started by dd99, Feb 1, 2007.

    Feb 1, 2007
  1. dd99

    dd99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Tel Aviv
    I think Empire Poker (?) was the first to stop accepting Israeli players, but that was because of business interests in Israel (I think they bought a company here ?)

    Today I got this in the mail:

    "It is with sincere regret that we must inform you that,
    due to recent events, Israeli players will no longer be
    able to place bets or fund their Belle Rock Entertainment
    gaming accounts.

    And so xxx, it is with much regret that we have to inform you
    that within 24 hours from February 1st 17h00 (IST) your account(s)
    and the gaming software, will no longer be accessible."

    and then this:

    "We regret that we will not be able to process any transactions to or
    from your personal accounts. This is due to our e-commerce processor not
    being able to accommodate players in your region.

    As a result, we, unfortunately, had to close your Casino account.
    Please visit the Fortune Lounge website frequently, as the situation may
    change and you may be allowed to play again in future."
    .

    F$%^&.... The long arm of the Israeli Ministry of Justice ?? What is going on here ?
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Feb 1, 2007
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Money

    Have fortune lounge "stolen" your money by failing to give sufficient notice to put your account in order?
    Casinos seem to have had it in for Israeli players for a while, seeming to brand them a bunch of "bonus abusers" and "account fraudsters".
    Clearly, other countries have been influenced by the success of the USA in effectively killing online casinos without actually making them illegal, simply by cutting the flow of funds.

    Perhaps the UK is destined for another wave of "asylum seekers" - players who need to come to a country where they are not persecuted or have their money stolen if they gamble online.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Feb 1, 2007
  5. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    This may be related to a precedent setting ruling (for Israel) by an Israeli judge last week (see news report from Casinomeister News below.)

    The case revolved around the advertising activities of the Victor Chandler group which has been enjoying good business in Israel despite the obvious desire of Israeli enforcement officials and the AG to put a stop to Internet gambling.

    IMPORTANT LEGAL DECISION FOR ONLINE GAMBLING IN ISRAEL

    Court says that foreign online gambling companies must reject Israeli gamblers

    The Israeli business publication Globes Online says that an important legal ruling handed down this week by an Israeli judge could have consequences for foreign gambling companies based outside Israel.

    Israeli Judge Abraham Heiman said that online gambling sites may not hide behind the fact that the company and its servers are located in another country.

    A foreign company operating an online gambling site may not hide behind the fact that the company and its servers are registered and located in another country, and it is breaking the law if does not block access to Israelis, said the judge in the Rishon LeZion Magistrates Court.

    Judge Heiman's ruling was in respect of a case against Victor Chandler CEO Michael Carlton. Heiman said, “In the era of the Internet, the original location of content (Internet services) is marginal and negligible. The centre of gravity, especially the territorial legal jurisdiction, must switch to the end point, in other words, the individual computer.”
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Feb 2, 2007
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    All very well

    All very well, but since when did Israel rule the internet. Many Israeli actions in the past have been in breach of international law, but that didn't stop them. Their intelligence services have been blamed for many kidnappings of persons wanted in Israel from foreign countries, and the "centre of gravity" for the persons concerned was their own adopted country. They seem to have the same attitude as the USA, and should pass a law stopping financial transactions, which would most likely have the same effect given what is now happening in the US.
     
  8. Feb 2, 2007
  9. dd99

    dd99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Tel Aviv
    Palace Group as well now....

    Hi there XXX,

    Account number: xx

    Due to the new gaming law coming into effect in Isreal we have no
    alternative but to suspend accepting deposits into your casino account,
    with immediate effect.

    In addition, your account is now locked.

    Having provided many years of fair, honest and enjoyable gaming, it is
    with deep regret that we are forced to take this course of action.

    Note: should you have a remaining balance in your cash account once it
    has been locked, please contact our support staff to arrange for the
    funds to be paid via a method of your choice.

    We would like to personally thank you for your loyalty.

    Should you require any further assistance, please contact our help desk
    as our operators are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week for your
    convenience.

    Kind regards,

    Andrea
    Customer Service Representative

    The Palace Group Support

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  10. Feb 2, 2007
  11. dd99

    dd99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Tel Aviv
    Also..

    That's not very relevant - show me any country that hasn't done similar.

    What would be interesting to know is why casinos seem to be imposing these restrictions on themselves ?
    Could US (or Israeli...) legal action affect an operator in Antigua ?
    Palace group is in Kahnawake, Bellerock in Gibraltar - am still trying to understand why they would self-impose this ban....
     
  12. Feb 2, 2007
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Trying

    Countries have tried, but failed (until recently), to impose their law on the internet. The ONLY thing different now is that the US appear to have succeeded by bullying tactics. Israel have wanted to do the same, and the success of the US has made them bolder. Casinos that left the US have been critisized for seeming to obey the law when the US says so, but ignore it when a small country wants to ban online gambling. It seems now they are being consitent by banning players from any country that pursues anti-gambling laws with any vigour. I would expect a ban on South Korean players to follow. Like Israel, South Korea have strong defensive ties with the US. Possibly, these countries are enhancing such actions as they know the US wants rid of these online casinos anyway.
    Before this, China succeeded in gaining agreement from the international companies that provide internet services to design a product capable of censoring the net based on where the user lives. The US will most likely implement this technology to block undesirable content, but will make sure the content is either univerally abhorrent, like forms of pornography, or to do with online gambling.
     
  14. Feb 2, 2007
  15. jsp377

    jsp377 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Williamsburg, VA
    This would almost certainly be a violation of the first amendment, and would be stricken down by SCOTUS within a couple of years after passing (forget implementation). Specifically, in the US the legal definition of "pornography" and the line which separates it from art is based on community standards*, so cannot be implemented on the national level.

    Besides the fact, a lot of American industry -- not just Google or Microsoft, but any company which relies on speedy international data transfers -- would go absolutely apesh*t over a piece of legislation like that.

    *There are three standards which must be met for something to qualify as pornography, the first of which reads:
    (a) whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest, Kois v. Wisconsin, supra, at 230, quoting Roth v. United States, supra, at 489
     
  16. Feb 4, 2007
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    For information, the Ops Director at Carmen Media (BelleRock's parent) has confirmed that henceforth Israeli players will be barred as a consequence of the Israeli ruling.
     
    2 people like this.
  18. Feb 9, 2007
  19. dd99

    dd99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Tel Aviv
    Visa transactions restricted

    Things have become a lot more difficult now.

    Visa has got its act together and is not allowing transactions to online casinos. Moneybookers as well....

    US, here we come...
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Feb 11, 2007
  21. Tester

    Tester Quit Gambling

    Location:
    Israel
    Bellrock are still sending promo letters to Israeli players........

    But with the mounting amount of spam for stock picks and manhood improvement, getting spam from casinos is starting to feel like fresh air:lolup:
     
  22. Feb 11, 2007
  23. dd99

    dd99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Tel Aviv
    Another one bites the dust....

    Paddy Power has now barred Israeli players
     
  24. Feb 12, 2007
  25. Chatmaster

    Chatmaster Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Online Marketing Specialist
    Location:
    South Africa
    What makes me angry is the fact that many would see this as victories. The fact that the US "apparently" are having success is hiding the FACT that only the legit and reliable casinos are pulling out. The corrupt ones will stay and find payment methods to continue business as usual. The same is happening in Israel, are these people born stupid!

    I believe the case of the US is plain and simple money related. It is worth the sacrifice to have millions loose their money at thieving casinos until the land based casinos can take over the US market. What on earth is Israel's case? All I see is a judge that doesn't understand the function of the internet or have a clear understanding of how online gambling works.
     
  26. Feb 12, 2007
  27. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    Or one who is trying to establish a judicial precedent that could have serious implications regarding the Internet - that the transaction or activity is deemed to take place on the PC of the user rather than on the server (which might be elsewhere)

    dd99 do you have a link to that statement about Paddy Power?
     
  28. Feb 12, 2007
  29. Tester

    Tester Quit Gambling

    Location:
    Israel
    Whether an online activity is haooening on the PC or on the server etc, has been a matter of various and contradictory judical ruling in many countries.

    This ruling is nothing exceptional. Just another judge vocing his personal side.
    That is what I can remember.

     
  30. Feb 13, 2007
  31. dd99

    dd99 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineer
    Location:
    Tel Aviv
    I was told over the phone.

    About Israel's case - there is a state-owned gambling monopoly in Israel (lottery, pools, lotto, some slots...) the proceeds of which are spent on community projects, sports, and oh yes - big fat executive salaries and maintaining the system.

    Unsurprisingly, the govt wants to protect its (20% taxable) monopoly. Plus, of course, protecting us from ourselves...
     

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