Ask me anything (about slots)!

[nikantw]

This is extremely sloppy programming in my view. To show a reel position which is impossible (I.e two scatters next to each other) is pretty bad and I'm surprised that NetEnt have done this or released the game with that fault.

On the visuals between spins of Avalon II, you can see the stack of 3 wilds passing one after another as if there are only 10-15 symbols between them. The true frequency of 3 wilds is every 110 symbols.

In every MG download casino you can find reports like this.



What access do they have to make these reports?
What access does UKGC or MGA require? I hear other jurisdictions require servers with complete access on their soil.
What are the checks for a slot to get licensed and keep its license from UKGC and MGA?
They do it themselves or just take the 3rd party report?
What does the 3rd party look for when testing a slot?
Can you quote or point to the paragraph in relevant legislation regarding slot licensing from UKGC and MGA?
Are things like 2 scatter teaser and other near miss combinations specifically tested for their random appearance?

 

[BrianGhattas]

In slots that require three consecutive bonus symbols to trigger the bonus, I seem to get a lot of teases. Are these slots programmed to have more bonus symbols in reels 1 and 2 and less in reel 3, which is the reel that matters?

Many older Aristocrats have this such as 5 Dragons and it can also happen in games from them that only have symbols in Reels 1-3 such as Pelican Pete, Miss Kitty, 50 Lions and many others.

 

[trancemonkey]

In slots that require three consecutive bonus symbols to trigger the bonus, I seem to get a lot of teases. Are these slots programmed to have more bonus symbols in reels 1 and 2 and less in reel 3, which is the reel that matters?

Many older Aristocrats have this such as 5 Dragons and it can also happen in games from them that only have symbols in Reels 1-3 such as Pelican Pete, Miss Kitty, 50 Lions and many others.

Yeah this is absolutely the case... It makes mathematical sense to do it that way because we need to make sure the feature happens every so many spins but we also want to tease you...

The real question is whether the proportion of tease to complete is right... That's very much a preference question but I don't like to take the piss too much

 

[dionysus]

Yeah this is absolutely the case... It makes mathematical sense to do it that way because we need to make sure the feature happens every so many spins but we also want to tease you...

The real question is whether the proportion of tease to complete is right... That's very much a preference question but I don't like to take the piss too much

This suggests there is a clearly defined feature hit rate...at least I imagine to an expected approximation. While known to the devs (and probably the casino) its not generally known to the player for obvious reasons.

But can you answer this in generalities. For example we as players say 'you can probably expect a feature to hit roughly 150-250 spins'. How accurate would you say this is in general terms and how far upward would a dev contemplate going? (Not downward as some slots like low various games come more often).
Ps exclude features like jps and extraordinary features. ..I mean run of the mill fs and bonuses.

 

[trancemonkey]

This suggests there is a clearly defined feature hit rate...at least I imagine to an expected approximation. While known to the devs (and probably the casino) its not generally known to the player for obvious reasons.

But can you answer this in generalities. For example we as players say 'you can probably expect a feature to hit roughly 150-250 spins'. How accurate would you say this is in general terms and how far upward would a dev contemplate going? (Not downward as some slots like low various games come more often).
Ps exclude features like jps and extraordinary features. ..I mean run of the mill fs and bonuses.

Well if a feature hits every 1 in 200 games, the range will be from 1 up to about 1200 (although theoretically there is no maximum limit, statistically there will be) . Obviously the bell curve (the most likely time a feature will hit) will be from about 150 to 250 games. Remember though that the chance of getting a feature is the same in every game... When we do maths for games, everything is based on averages. So on average the feature will happen 1 in 200 games...

 

[trancemonkey]

Dear trancemonkey:

Thank you for sharing information with us. I have a question regarding currency. How online slots handle different currencies? Does the same slots with different currency options know what currency is in use when a bet is made?

Thank you

plasticnote

The slot gets the currency from the server when you open it along with which language it needs to display for the player... The game server has to know the currency for logging purposes. Currency never has an impact on the way the game plays though... The game logic (the maths) is completely dumb to currency

 

[interlog]

Has a slot ever been a loss maker?

Say, for example, it gives out massive wins on high stakes for it to then not be played enough to recoup the losses these massive wins resulted in.

 

[trancemonkey]

Has a slot ever been a loss maker?

Say, for example, it gives out massive wins on high stakes for it to then not be played enough to recoup the losses these massive wins resulted in.

I'm sure this has happened... There are way more bad slots than good ones in the world!

What definitely happens (and has happened to one of my games) is that a game pays out an enormous amount on the first day (one high roller won over 450k playing at 150 quid a spin) and casinos get nervous about whether there is a fault!

 

[Velmu]

There is one question which i havent understanded.

Example: I logged in into casino which i had never deposited before and created account there years back and finally when i was searching casinos i made deposit there, BUT when i opened the favourite slot which i play there was music muted, and before i deposited there i was playing on different casino where i muted the music in same slot, so does all slots in everysite come from same provider? So it does not matter actually where you play and if this is the case you should only have like one casino where you play. I always belived and have done it that if i lose on one casino ill try another if it pays better, but if all the slots come from one server/provider/w/e it does not matter right?

I was really like wtf when i never opened that slot in that casino and even deposited i had already music muted there lol?

May be stupid question if its just simply that every sites slots come from one provider or something like that.

 

[trancemonkey]

There is one question which i havent understanded.

Example: I logged in into casino which i had never deposited before and created account there years back and finally when i was searching casinos i made deposit there, BUT when i opened the favourite slot which i play there was music muted, and before i deposited there i was playing on different casino where i muted the music in same slot, so does all slots in everysite come from same provider? So it does not matter actually where you play and if this is the case you should only have like one casino where you play. I always belived and have done it that if i lose on one casino ill try another if it pays better, but if all the slots come from one server/provider/w/e it does not matter right?

I was really like wtf when i never opened that slot in that casino and even deposited i had already music muted there lol?

May be stupid question if its just simply that every sites slots come from one provider or something like that.

If you're playing on a mobile device music is muted by default in most cases... This is because the browser requires you to make a conscious decision to turn it on, and also because having music off by default allowed us to download the games faster.

For every casino you play at they should have their own instance of each game - this means that whatever you do on one casino has no impact on the same game on another casino - where this MIGHT differ is where you play on a sister casino as some companies might share the same instance of the games across multiple casinos that they own.

However whether they do this or not will have no bearing on your enjoyment of the game - each spin is independent

 

[dionysus]

If you're playing on a mobile device music is muted by default in most cases... This is because the browser requires you to make a conscious decision to turn it on, and also because having music off by default allowed us to download the games faster.

For every casino you play at they should have their own instance of each game - this means that whatever you do on one casino has no impact on the same game on another casino - where this MIGHT differ is where you play on a sister casino as some companies might share the same instance of the games across multiple casinos that they own.

However whether they do this or not will have no bearing on your enjoyment of the game - each spin is independent

There is a bit of a caveat on the above question though, no?
For example we say Microgaming is Microgaming is Microgaming. The slot is the same regardless of where you play in that your odds are no better at one than another and the only real reason to choose one Microgaming casino over another is preference (ie better CS. ...better promos...payout time etc).

But in the case of say RTG where casinos are offered a choice of 3 RTG settings surely the odds are better at one if it happens to have picked the highest of the 3?

On that note. Have you heard tell..RTG aside..where there's any instances where RTP are offered in ranges? Thanks

 

[Velmu]

If you're playing on a mobile device music is muted by default in most cases... This is because the browser requires you to make a conscious decision to turn it on, and also because having music off by default allowed us to download the games faster.

For every casino you play at they should have their own instance of each game - this means that whatever you do on one casino has no impact on the same game on another casino - where this MIGHT differ is where you play on a sister casino as some companies might share the same instance of the games across multiple casinos that they own.

However whether they do this or not will have no bearing on your enjoyment of the game - each spin is independent

Was playing with PC and the game i play never has muted music by default (Old NetEnt)

 

[trancemonkey]

There is a bit of a caveat on the above question though, no?
For example we say Microgaming is Microgaming is Microgaming. The slot is the same regardless of where you play in that your odds are no better at one than another and the only real reason to choose one Microgaming casino over another is preference (ie better CS. ...better promos...payout time etc).

But in the case of say RTG where casinos are offered a choice of 3 RTG settings surely the odds are better at one if it happens to have picked the highest of the 3?

On that note. Have you heard tell..RTG aside..where there's any instances where RTP are offered in ranges? Thanks

Lots of providers do multiple RTP options...

 

[dionysus]

Lots of providers do multiple RTP options...

So ostensibly your odds are (may be) greater at one casino over another having the same games?

 

[trancemonkey]

So ostensibly your odds are (may be) greater at one casino over another having the same gzmes?

Yup... Hence always check the help screens. Where a range of RTP is given, assume the lowest.... Although of course it could be the highest. This is done where the game client (the bit you see) can't get the correct RTP from the server due to the way the client /server handshake works (it doesn't send the game the RTP because the game client doesn't normally need to know.

 

[aceking123]

hi Trance are you or your colleagues ever going to produce a slot to where the minimum feature hit is set from 100x bet onwards , this would be a first in terms of any online slot or is it that it cannot be done ??

 

[BlaCGaming]

Another question just came to mind, I tend to play multiple games at once at online casinos. What happens when I open Dead or Alive for example 20 times in different tabs and windows and all set them to different values and start spinning with autospin simultaniously? What happens with the games and the server that is getting the same player ID for different bets on the same game?

 

[BrianGhattas]

In the case of online casinos, how is profit divided between the casinos and the slot manufacturers?

 

[nikantw]

Hi trancemonkey,

In every MG download casino you can find reports like this.

View attachment 76666

What access do they have to make these reports?
What access does UKGC or MGA require? I hear other jurisdictions require servers with complete access on their soil.
What are the checks for a slot to get licensed and keep its license from UKGC and MGA?
They do it themselves or just take the 3rd party report?
What does the 3rd party look for when testing a slot?
Can you quote or point to the paragraph in relevant legislation regarding slot licensing from UKGC and MGA?
Are things like 2 scatter teaser and other near miss combinations specifically tested for their random appearance?

Sorry for asking again. I figure you missed my first post

 

[Captain Rizk]

In the case of online casinos, how is profit divided between the casinos and the slot manufacturers?

This is a simple case of negotiation between the casino and the slot manufacturer at point of contract when the casino looks to take a providers games.

 

[trancemonkey]

I'd actually quite like to do this type of AMA at the next CM meet up if I can make it

 

[trancemonkey]

hi Trance are you or your colleagues ever going to produce a slot to where the minimum feature hit is set from 100x bet onwards , this would be a first in terms of any online slot or is it that it cannot be done ??

I have done some that are not far off... We have them at IGT now from the studio I work in. But of course the higher the feature average, the rarer the feature. If i was going to have a feature average of 100x I wouldn't want the feature to happen more than every 350 games... Otherwise the base game will be as dry as an nuns front bottom... And even at 1 in 350 that would account for 28% of the total RTP so for the other 349 games you'd be playing a 68% base game and that's only if the overall game was 96%...

 

[trancemonkey]

Another question just came to mind, I tend to play multiple games at once at online casinos. What happens when I open Dead or Alive for example 20 times in different tabs and windows and all set them to different values and start spinning with autospin simultaniously? What happens with the games and the server that is getting the same player ID for different bets on the same game?

Almost all casinos I know of won't let you have multiple games open at the same time and certainly not multiple instances of the same game so this would never be an issue. If you're playing multiple games across multiple different casinos the game server would have no idea it was you playing multiple instances. You player ID is unique to the casino so each instance of the same game would see you with a different player ID

 

[BlaCGaming]

Almost all casinos I know of won't let you have multiple games open at the same time and certainly not multiple instances of the same game so this would never be an issue. If you're playing multiple games across multiple different casinos the game server would have no idea it was you playing multiple instances. You player ID is unique to the casino so each instance of the same game would see you with a different player ID

I see, thanks! I have no issue to play multiple different games as some casinos even offer that as a feature, but I wonder as a hypothetical, if the casino messed up and that happened (same game multiple times), what would likely be the outcome? Or it is not possible from the game servers side?

 

[trancemonkey]

I see, thanks! I have no issue to play multiple different games as some casinos even offer that as a feature, but I wonder as a hypothetical, if the casino messed up and that happened, what would likely be the outcome? Or it is not possible from the game servers side?

Wouldnt make any difference. The game server responds to a spin request. It doesn't know or care how many concurrent users there are. If it's just running on one node it would respond to the requests on the order it received them... Hence sometimes popular games can have delays... But then most providers have multiple nodes to cope with a large number of concurrent users.

 

[marsan]

hi

i was wondering if you knew the rtp in the official land based casinos in the netherlands (holland casino)

and also,if it really matters what denomination + physical place(say close to the bar or in far away corner) you play

thx,elisabeth

 

[trancemonkey]

hi

i was wondering if you knew the rtp in the official land based casinos in the netherlands (holland casino)

and also,if it really matters what denomination + physical place(say close to the bar or in far away corner) you play

thx,elisabeth

Hey Marsan...

I dont know but I will try and find out for you this week. Remember most games have a range of RTP that they can be set at.. This is more true in land-based than online. I'm not sure if in Holland the games have to display the TRTP to the player like games do in the UK.

It is entirely possible that games in the more popular areas are on a higher RTP then those hidden away at the back... It's also possible for the opposite to be true... At the end of the day casinos are a business - they need to maximise profit whilst maximising your experience and balance that. It is also possible for RTP to change at busy times and at quiet times in retail casinos although i'm not aware of anyone doing this BUT it would be legal to do it...

Always check the help pages to see if the RTP is shown.

 

[lotusch]

hi

i was wondering if you knew the rtp in the official land based casinos in the netherlands (holland casino)

and also,if it really matters what denomination + physical place(say close to the bar or in far away corner) you play

thx,elisabeth

Hi Elisabeth,

According to Holland Casino the average RTP% of their slots range in and around the 92%-93% mark.
If you compare this to the regular "amusements halls" in The Netherlands like Fair Play Casino or Jack's Casino where the RTP% can be sometimes as low as 80%.

 

[marsan]

Hey Marsan...

I dont know but I will try and find out for you this week. Remember most games have a range of RTP that they can be set at.. This is more true in land-based than online. I'm not sure if in Holland the games have to display the TRTP to the player like games do in the UK.

It is entirely possible that games in the more popular areas are on a higher RTP then those hidden away at the back... It's also possible for the opposite to be true... At the end of the day casinos are a business - they need to maximise profit whilst maximising your experience and balance that. It is also possible for RTP to change at busy times and at quiet times in retail casinos although i'm not aware of anyone doing this BUT it would be legal to do it...

Always check the help pages to see if the RTP is shown.

thx for your reply

i dont think they are obliged to display the rtp,i asked personel sometimes about rtp and i never get an clear answer.
the casino has different floors,smoking and non-smoking,the smoking area is always extremely crowded as in you feel like you hit the jackpot if you can find 1 slot not being played at
and in that busy area we always feel that our returns are much worse then in the non smoking area(less busy)

i know its probably biased anecdotal evidence,but i think we better stick to less busy areas in that particular (holland casino breda)casino next time

 

[trancemonkey]

thx for your reply

i dont think they are obliged to display the rtp,i asked personel sometimes about rtp and i never get an clear answer.
the casino has different floors,smoking and non-smoking,the smoking area is always extremely crowded as in you feel like you hit the jackpot if you can find 1 slot not being played at
and in that busy area we always feel that our returns are much worse then in the non smoking area(less busy)

i know its probably biased anecdotal evidence,but i think we better stick to less busy areas in that particular (holland casino breda)casino next time

It's entirely possible they are on a lower RTP in the more popular areas...

 

[marsan]

Hi Elisabeth,

According to Holland Casino the average RTP% of their slots range in and around the 92%-93% mark.
If you compare this to the regular "amusements halls" in The Netherlands like Fair Play Casino or Jack's Casino where the RTP% can be sometimes as low as 80%.

hi lotusch,thx for your reply

92-93% is better then i expected
we knew jacks casino had lower % ,but 80% sounds horrible

having said that,i think we have walked out of jacks more often with an profit then out of holland casino,but i reckon that is due to jacks slots being different variance

 

[lotusch]

hi lotusch,thx for your reply

92-93% is better then i expected
we knew jacks casino had lower % ,but 80% sounds horrible

having said that,i think we have walked out of jacks more often with an profit then out of holland casino,but i reckon that is due to jacks slots being different variance

Well yeah the Holland Casino slots are mostly medium to very high variance I think.
Been there many many times myself as a Dutchie.

Regular gambling shacks like Jacks Casino and Fair Play have some monstrous slots too but also have a lot of old pretty low variance slots like Club2000, Supatron, Nudge Up, Lotus ...
These days the Red&Green Peppers is still one of the most played slots in Fair Play casino's..

 

[trancemonkey]

IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS ABOUT FAIRNESS, RTP, COMPLIANCE AND GAME SOFTWARE

Hi trancemonkey,

In every MG download casino you can find reports like this.

View attachment 76666

What access do they have to make these reports?
What access does UKGC or MGA require? I hear other jurisdictions require servers with complete access on their soil.
What are the checks for a slot to get licensed and keep its license from UKGC and MGA?
They do it themselves or just take the 3rd party report?
What does the 3rd party look for when testing a slot?
Can you quote or point to the paragraph in relevant legislation regarding slot licensing from UKGC and MGA?
Are things like 2 scatter teaser and other near miss combinations specifically tested for their random appearance?

Sorry for asking again. I figure you missed my first post

Sorry for not yet fully answering your questions, but you can find most of the answers to your questions here:

Old / Expired Link

These is probably important for you too:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

This explains how the UKGC expects proof of RTP to be shown to them:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

And this explains how audits are done to prove what we do is fair - TourettesGuy might want to read this:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Anything specific after you've read those, please let me knowe

 

[marsan]

Well yeah the Holland Casino slots are mostly medium to very high variance I think.
Been there many many times myself as a Dutchie.

Regular gambling shacks like Jacks Casino and Fair Play have some monstrous slots too but also have a lot of old pretty low variance slots like Club2000, Supatron, Nudge Up, Lotus ...
These days the Red&Green Peppers is still one of the most played slots in Fair Play casino's..

heh,yea,supatron is the slot we have had nice profits on

 

[Janian]

Slots varieties

Hello,

want to ask - what are the varieties of slots? I mean their mechanics, especially how to make a bet: somewhere I can bet per line, somewhere - just bet a strict sum... Which one is better, what do you advice? I'm an advanced slot player, although I was never thinking about their structure.

Thank you in advance!

 

[trancemonkey]

Hello,

want to ask - what are the varieties of slots? I mean their mechanics, especially how to make a bet: somewhere I can bet per line, somewhere - just bet a strict sum... Which one is better, what do you advice? I'm an advanced slot player, although I was never thinking about their structure.

Thank you in advance!

Hey Janian - thanks for joining in with the thread. I'm not 100% sure what you mean...

Let me answer the question i think you're asking about the lines vs strict sums - it makes no difference. You may want to bet on fewer lines from a financial point of view, but in terms of RTP and chances to win, it makes no difference. In most markets, the ability to change lines is disappearing as it creates a lot more work for the slot provider and limits game design.

If that wasn't what you meant, please ask me again

 

[BrianGhattas]

Is the RTG on a slot the same on both a PC and on mobile devices?

 

[interlog]

Talking about playing 1 or more lines.

Other than for financial reasons, on the Twitch community they have the so called "1 line theory" on either Royal Masquerade or Pimped. Both of these slots during the bonus round, that is triggered with 3 scatters, give win spins.

People are convinced that this is the way to beat the slot because the wins during these free spins are going to be 10x bigger than playing with 10 lines.

I am not sure myself. I am certain that the slot compensates for this.

Your thoughts?

 

[trancemonkey]

Is the RTG on a slot the same on both a PC and on mobile devices?

They should be... But they don't have to be. Check the help pages

 

[trancemonkey]

Talking about playing 1 or more lines.

Other than for financial reasons, on the Twitch community they have the so called "1 line theory" on either Royal Masquerade or Pimped. Both of these slots during the bonus round, that is triggered with 3 scatters, give win spins.

People are convinced that this is the way to beat the slot because the wins during these free spins are going to be 10x bigger than playing with 10 lines.

I am not sure myself. I am certain that the slot compensates for this.

Your thoughts?

Of course it makes no difference... The game knows how many lines is being played and will adjust the feature accordingly.. And before anyone asks, yes it's possible to do this in a random game fairly and legally..

 

[Valhalla]

You've probably been asked this here already but I don't wanna trawl the entire thread so I'll shoot anyway:

If I trigger free spins on a game like Immortal Romance, is the final win randomly set for each selection before the spins start?
Say, would it be like this:

Amber £44 - Troy £12 - Michael £20 - Sarah £60 (with the final amounts hidden obviously).

Or would it be like this:

Amber £12 - Troy £12 - Michael £12 - Sarah £12 (doesn't actually matter which one I pick).

If it's the first one, would it be fair to say that on the times I've picked Amber or Troy and won basically nothing (I never pick the others because they are 99% shite), if I had only picked Michael or Sarah I might have won thousands?

 

[Janian]

Hey Janian - thanks for joining in with the thread. I'm not 100% sure what you mean...

Let me answer the question i think you're asking about the lines vs strict sums - it makes no difference. You may want to bet on fewer lines from a financial point of view, but in terms of RTP and chances to win, it makes no difference. In most markets, the ability to change lines is disappearing as it creates a lot more work for the slot provider and limits game design.

If that wasn't what you meant, please ask me again

thank you for reply! my question was devoted to the win. where the probability of winning is higher - betting on lines or changing coin value? as I observed, slots with changing coin values are more about to win, instead of lines, that can't win at all sometimes.

thank you

 

[trancemonkey]

thank you for reply! my question was devoted to the win. where the probability of winning is higher - betting on lines or changing coin value? as I observed, slots with changing coin values are more about to win, instead of lines, that can't win at all sometimes.

thank you

I'm still not sure what you mean when you say "slots with changing coin values are more about to win, instead of lines, that can't win at all sometimes."
The more lines you bet on, the higher the probability of winning, but the RTP remains the same...

 

[trancemonkey]

You've probably been asked this here already but I don't wanna trawl the entire thread so I'll shoot anyway:

If I trigger free spins on a game like Immortal Romance, is the final win randomly set for each selection before the spins start?
Say, would it be like this:

Amber £44 - Troy £12 - Michael £20 - Sarah £60 (with the final amounts hidden obviously).

Or would it be like this:

Amber £12 - Troy £12 - Michael £12 - Sarah £12 (doesn't actually matter which one I pick).

If it's the first one, would it be fair to say that on the times I've picked Amber or Troy and won basically nothing (I never pick the others because they are 99% shite), if I had only picked Michael or Sarah I might have won thousands?

Hey Valhalla - actually neither of these is likely to be correct...
On games where the player can pick a feature, all the features will have exactly the same (or as near as is possible) feature average. However, not every feature will likely have the same volatility...

When you choose a feature, that feature will play out as normal using randomly determined outcomes for each spin... you could win a lot, or very little, or somewhere in between. The total from the feature isn't chosen beforehand and then awarded via a set of "rigged" spins...

 

[Valhalla]

Hey Valhalla - actually neither of these is likely to be correct...

So... there's always a chance I could win a fortune on any of them?

 

[trancemonkey]

So... there's always a chance I could win a fortune on any of them?

Correct... Although I always go for the first one on TS2

 

[Deeplay]

Correct... Although I always go for the first one on TS2

hi any reason why you always choose the first one ? this seems the most volatile of them all but can pay huge ... is that the reason or just cause you like it ?

 

[trancemonkey]

hi any reason why you always choose the first one ? this seems the most volatile of them all but can pay huge ... is that the reason or just cause you like it ?

For exactly that reason... I like the volatility

 

[Valhalla]

Correct... Although I always go for the first one on TS2

I always choose:

1. Amber or 2. Troy on IR.
1. Valkyrie, 2. Loki or 3. Odin on TSII
1. Coffee & chocs or 2. Wild Wine(?) on TFROL

The "rolling reels" option on all of them is a total stinker. Waste of my time

 

[Deeplay]

I always choose:

1. Amber or 2. Troy on IR.
1. Valkyrie, 2. Loki or 3. Odin on TSII
1. Coffee & chocs or 2. Wild Wine(?) on TFROL

The "rolling reels" option on all of them is a total stinker. Waste of my time

TS2 the rolling reels has paid really well for me in the past , and the only reason I choose 4 more often and not is I enjoy the bonus round and your rare going to get a really low or zero pay on that one.
When it goes into manic mode giving you the 3 wilds it can pay really well. Had that a few times. Each to there own though.