Ask me anything (about slots)!

[trancemonkey]

The world of casino's is'nt just from the UK alone man.

So you think we deliver different packages to different casinos at great cost to ourselves?!
I think you need to buy a new tin foil hat mate... this one is clearly not protecting you enough

 

[Bloatgoat]

I never had a tin foil hat lol. Dont need one.

But you make it sound like everything thats in the UK applies to the rest of the world. Why on earth do you think these license providers exist in curacao, malta and whatever more offshore country's.

 

[dunover]

I never had a tin foil hat lol. Dont need one.

But you make it sound like everything thats in the UK applies to the rest of the world. Why on earth do you think these license providers exist in curacao, malta and whatever more offshore country's.

That's not relevant - the majority of developers are licensed in high-grade jurisdictions like the UK, IoM, Alderney, Malta etc. and that's the standard of the product. It's not reduced or altered for different countries, unless casinos are offering a different RTP version which again is provided by the developer. If you're referring to bent/fake slots and those 1668/JAZ licenses that's a different kettle of fish as those aren't even the real developer games anyway.

 

[Halvor]

I never had a tin foil hat lol. Dont need one.

But you make it sound like everything thats in the UK applies to the rest of the world. Why on earth do you think these license providers exist in curacao, malta and whatever more offshore country's.

Short answer, because different regions and countries require different licenses.

It also comes down to cost, operational reasons and where the companies are actually located.

And yes you definitely have a tin foil hat. At the same time as you claim the industry is rigged, you have also repeatedly stated that you can recognize patterns and can foresee when slots will pay. So what exactly is it then?

Surely the industry cant be controlling the result, and at the same time you single handily figured out how to exploit and outsmart one of the best game providers in the world?

 

[trancemonkey]

I never had a tin foil hat lol. Dont need one.

But you make it sound like everything thats in the UK applies to the rest of the world. Why on earth do you think these license providers exist in curacao, malta and whatever more offshore country's.

Right, listen / read carefully..

I can not, and will not, speak for dodgy casinos or games providers who are NOT from regulated markets - you get me?

In regulated markets (not just UK), games are NOT centrally compensated, rigged, compenrigged, or any other form of illegal control.

You want to play in China, or Vietnam or any Curacao licenced place, you feel free to take your chances - they won't care about taking legit software and bastardizing it to do whatever they want - BUT this is very very unlikely to happy anywhere in Europe or anywhere else regulated like MGA / UKGC or any of the long list of reputable licencors.

You can quote as many VIP managers as you want, but it still won't make it true. That casino (i don't know which one it is) may WELL be doing something dodgy if it's unregulated, but let me tell you this - i am 99.9999999% sure that if it's in a regulated market is is NOT centrally compensated.

Has it sank in yet?

 

[trancemonkey]

Short answer, because different regions and countries require different licenses.

It also comes down to cost, operational reasons and where the companies are actually located.

And yes you definitely have a tin foil hat. At the same time as you claim the industry is rigged, you have also repeatedly stated that you can recognize patterns and can foresee when slots will pay. So what exactly is it then?

Surely the industry cant be controlling the result, and at the same time you single handily figured out how to exploit and outsmart one of the best game providers in the world?

I think he's on the verge of needing a tin-foil house

 

[Bloatgoat]

repeated

You can quote as many VIP managers as you want, but it still won't make it true. That casino (i don't know which one it is) may WELL be doing something dodgy if it's unregulated, but let me tell you this - i am 99.9999999% sure that if it's in a regulated market is is NOT centrally compensated.

The casino you mention is licenced in curacao. So yeah. One of the dodgy country's you name 'm. I've stopped playing with them since they hide the RTP from games and it was as good as impossible to ever win big enough. It feels like i was always compensated, untill i started to ask questions to the vip manager. His exact words is in a previous, quote somewhere in this forum.

You might not believe one VIP manager, but did you ever question why a assigned VIP manager would be talking out of his rear to his clients? It makes perfect sense the model he was talking about.

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Players are well aware that the licensing standards in places like Curacao don't mean much compared to licenses from other, more discerning jurisdictions. Casinos licensed by Curacao have suddenly gone rogue, stolen money, and disappeared. Curacao doesn't intervene in disputes between players and operators. From the player's point of view, a license from Curacao is meaningless.

Anyone with a approx balance of 60.000$ could start one. So why not implement a system that redistributes all the player deposits over a RTP of lets say 97% that would theoretically harden the security of that same casino. Sure they'll pay players out. But no more then technically that went into the casino, does'nt it? This guarantees the casino not getting bankrupt.

As for the landbased casino, i've written this a many times before here, but there are landbased casino's that 'link' slots to eachother. The best example i can give you was, going balistic on betting on a block of 16 (busy played) slots. I am getting big losses left and right, the rest who wageres on low to medium wins huge. It was like; my losses at that particular moment was being redistributed among others.

Now, again, if you take all players wagering, and divide that with some sort of small algorthim up to 85 to 92% which is common for a landbased casino, is'nt that simply within the law that a casino cannot tamper with RTP? I give you another example. German laws once changed the gaming rules that mini casino's and such could no longer play a certain amount of money in a certain amount of timespan. They simply dodged that by making the actual funds as credits. They are not breaking the law, they are bending it and since there is no law against it, they are within the law, are'nt they?

Now, you question that that would be illegal for a (online) casino to alter the gamestate. You are right. But in my experience from playing, you have 2 sets of gaming going on. 1: the very basegame. You play you wager you get something back la la la. The basic shit. Part 2: the actual big wins. Sometimes i can just tell by doing a deposit, does'nt matter which game i play, it's not going to hit. You can law down 10 different tactics, but i just FEEL it in my guts it's not going to hit. But when i KNOW it's going to hit, i just step in big. And thats when it pays off.

Now i know feeling something if something is going to pay or not is not a static or something with proof provided thing. But ask any gambler (real gambler) how many times he relied on his very nature guts if something was going to happen or not. Look at Rock and roller on youtube for example, with his blazing roulette. Anyone betting 5 up to 8k a spin on roulette would be sickening. But he knows from inside, he has this thing of luck on him. And he usually is right as well.

We're all playing on a stack of software with layers, and your telling us that it's all random and our inside guts is false or is at the wrong side of things here. Slot algorithms are designed to:

- Keep players playing
- Throw small wins, even if it would be a loss, your still having the feeling of winning
- increase TOD (time on device)
- Know your breaking point, this could be gathered over a billion avg players and spin and craft something out of that as well.
- Trigger people to get comfertable with losing, typical big win at just the end of your bankroll.
- Extreme high variance, what good is it if just the top 3% of players gets the best and the rest takes a loss?

The only reason why i'm playing online is because i'm lazy to get out to perhaps one of the best casino's in the EU. Out of 7 times i walk away with a profit. And maybe i should just go back to where i came from. Because that at least pays back on the long term.

 

[trancemonkey]

The casino you mention is licenced in curacao. So yeah. One of the dodgy country's you name 'm. I've stopped playing with them since they hide the RTP from games and it was as good as impossible to ever win big enough. It feels like i was always compensated, untill i started to ask questions to the vip manager. His exact words is in a previous, quote somewhere in this forum.

You might not believe one VIP manager, but did you ever question why a assigned VIP manager would be talking out of his rear to his clients? It makes perfect sense the model he was talking about.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Anyone with a approx balance of 60.000$ could start one. So why not implement a system that redistributes all the player deposits over a RTP of lets say 97% that would theoretically harden the security of that same casino. Sure they'll pay players out. But no more then technically that went into the casino, does'nt it? This guarantees the casino not getting bankrupt.

As for the landbased casino, i've written this a many times before here, but there are landbased casino's that 'link' slots to eachother. The best example i can give you was, going balistic on betting on a block of 16 (busy played) slots. I am getting big losses left and right, the rest who wageres on low to medium wins huge. It was like; my losses at that particular moment was being redistributed among others.

Now, again, if you take all players wagering, and divide that with some sort of small algorthim up to 85 to 92% which is common for a landbased casino, is'nt that simply within the law that a casino cannot tamper with RTP? I give you another example. German laws once changed the gaming rules that mini casino's and such could no longer play a certain amount of money in a certain amount of timespan. They simply dodged that by making the actual funds as credits. They are not breaking the law, they are bending it and since there is no law against it, they are within the law, are'nt they?

Now, you question that that would be illegal for a (online) casino to alter the gamestate. You are right. But in my experience from playing, you have 2 sets of gaming going on. 1: the very basegame. You play you wager you get something back la la la. The basic shit. Part 2: the actual big wins. Sometimes i can just tell by doing a deposit, does'nt matter which game i play, it's not going to hit. You can law down 10 different tactics, but i just FEEL it in my guts it's not going to hit. But when i KNOW it's going to hit, i just step in big. And thats when it pays off.

Now i know feeling something if something is going to pay or not is not a static or something with proof provided thing. But ask any gambler (real gambler) how many times he relied on his very nature guts if something was going to happen or not. Look at Rock and roller on youtube for example, with his blazing roulette. Anyone betting 5 up to 8k a spin on roulette would be sickening. But he knows from inside, he has this thing of luck on him. And he usually is right as well.

We're all playing on a stack of software with layers, and your telling us that it's all random and our inside guts is false or is at the wrong side of things here. Slot algorithms are designed to:

- Keep players playing
- Throw small wins, even if it would be a loss, your still having the feeling of winning
- increase TOD (time on device)
- Know your breaking point, this could be gathered over a billion avg players and spin and craft something out of that as well.
- Trigger people to get comfertable with losing, typical big win at just the end of your bankroll.
- Extreme high variance, what good is it if just the top 3% of players gets the best and the rest takes a loss?

The only reason why i'm playing online is because i'm lazy to get out to perhaps one of the best casino's in the EU. Out of 7 times i walk away with a profit. And maybe i should just go back to where i came from. Because that at least pays back on the long term.

Well, as mentioned - i won't discuss dodgy back-water casinos... and i've always made that clear. Whatever they do is up to them.

As for this:

As for the landbased casino, i've written this a many times before here, but there are landbased casino's that 'link' slots to eachother.

So there used to be "community games" which were linked to each other, and if one machine triggered a feature, all machines would trigger the feature as well. However, they were still random. Note - There are some B3 and Cat C commnuity games in the UK that are linked, and compensated, and these categories of games are allowed to be compensated.

Also, linked progressives are also examples of machines being linked - but they only share the progressives.

However, there are NO other situations where linked casino machines exist - and this i should know, as it's my current job to make them and has been for a while

 

[Halvor]

You might not believe one VIP manager, but did you ever question why a assigned VIP manager would be talking out of his rear to his clients? It makes perfect sense the model he was talking about.

I'll leave the rest for trancemonkey to reply to as he feels fit.

But what exactly makes that one VIP manager less likely to be talking out of his rear. Than for both me and trancemonkey, thats actually both in the industry and definitely more slot facing than any VIP manager, to be making up lies on how it works?

 

[Bloatgoat]

Well are'nt alot of company's like starbucks, mcdonalds and all that simply bending the rules in favor of less paying taxes, for example? You make it sound like it never occurs in a business where there's millions of money involved. In my experience anything with money involved is greedy people.

@Halvor Sure, but i like to take a few more sources instead of just sticking to one, who's interest is obviously.

 

[trancemonkey]

Now i know feeling something if something is going to pay or not is not a static or something with proof provided thing. But ask any gambler (real gambler) how many times he relied on his very nature guts if something was going to happen or not. Look at Rock and roller on youtube for example, with his blazing roulette. Anyone betting 5 up to 8k a spin on roulette would be sickening. But he knows from inside, he has this thing of luck on him. And he usually is right as well.

We're all playing on a stack of software with layers, and your telling us that it's all random and our inside guts is false or is at the wrong side of things here. Slot algorithms are designed to:

- Keep players playing
- Throw small wins, even if it would be a loss, your still having the feeling of winning
- increase TOD (time on device)
- Know your breaking point, this could be gathered over a billion avg players and spin and craft something out of that as well.
- Trigger people to get comfertable with losing, typical big win at just the end of your bankroll.
- Extreme high variance, what good is it if just the top 3% of players gets the best and the rest takes a loss?

The only reason why i'm playing online is because i'm lazy to get out to perhaps one of the best casino's in the EU. Out of 7 times i walk away with a profit. And maybe i should just go back to where i came from. Because that at least pays back on the long term.

RocknRolla loses as well you know... or are you just ignoring that because it doesn't suit your narrative?

Let's consider your other list:

...slots are designed to:

- Keep players playing - YES, obviously. Bit of a rubbish business model if they didn't...
- Throw small wins, even if it would be a loss, your still having the feeling of winning IRRELEVANT. Some games don't gvie many wins less than stake, some do - there is a whole range of games. And the trend offline at the moment is away from wins < stake.
- increase TOD (time on device) - Depends on what your volatility is... interesting that you use the acronym TOD... that's quite computer industry specific, which now makes me wonder whether you're just trolling... hmmm
- Know your breaking point, this could be gathered over a billion avg players and spin and craft something out of that as well. No idea what relevance this has.
- Trigger people to get comfertable with losing, typical big win at just the end of your bankroll. Nope, because that would be compensation
- Extreme high variance, what good is it if just the top 3% of players gets the best and the rest takes a loss? Then player a lower variance game.

 

[trancemonkey]

Well are'nt alot of company's like starbucks, mcdonalds and all that simply bending the rules in favor of less paying taxes, for example? You make it sound like it never occurs in a business where there's millions of money involved. In my experience anything with money involved is greedy people.

@Halvor Sure, but i like to take a few more sources instead of just sticking to one, who's interest is obviously.

You want to take a few more sources instead of sticking to just one, and yet you literally ONLY quote the VIP manager in multiple posts as proof! Brilliant lol

 

[johnnybagel]

If you look up 'conspiracy theory' in the Oxford English dictionary, the definition simply says 'Bloatgoat'.

 

[Bloatgoat]

Duh, his whole channel is devoted to, reality of slots. Do you really think that i would have a different opinion on slots? Lol. He's the only channel i actually watch once in a while. The rest can be ignored. Even davo slots posts video of him winnin 170k on a slot, which was a demo machine, that can be bought on ebay for a lowzy 1000$ or so. Great objectivity if you talk about streamers!

- increase TOD (time on device) - Depends on what your volatility is... interesting that you use the acronym TOD... that's quite computer industry specific, which now makes me wonder whether you're just trolling... hmmm

Yes i work in computers, web and anything technical as well for pretty much all my life. I have a technical background and i have my own business for 10 years. If we're reffering to computer terms then you know where i come from by now. I'd like to use TOD for a reason. Increase volatility and your automaticly dragging your players in a longer time spend on device.

I'd like to pull things apart, learn about it's inner working and understand how slots operate as well. And the 'dirty' tricks that are applied to games as well when it comes to gambling. Facebook, Instagram, every aspect of that is coming straight from R&D which casino's did back in the 70's and so on.



It's really interesting on how to turn a pigeon into a gambling addict. Now if you apply that knowledge to a slot, Here you have the answer on why it's so damn addicting in the first place. Or how it creates a new breed of addicts, if we're talking about that. I'm pretty sure that there are alot of new reworked algorithems released the last few years, with all the knowledge of people betting online.

Make it more tight, in a legal and legit way. Less money for the casino to payout, and more money being wagered. Vendor lockins. I can see the trend of casino's and their games man. Looking at just the states with a casino on almost every corner (even in supermarkets, airports) it's no secret to where the current future of casino's is going to be.

 

[Halvor]

How exactly is positive reinforcement research a sign of making a pigeon addicted?

As for the rest of your post its either irrelevant. or as with the last part, I don't really even get what your getting at.

 

[Borgie]

How exactly is positive reinforcement research a sign of making a pigeon addicted?

As for the rest of your post its either irrelevant. or as with the last part, I don't really even get what your getting at.

I agree it's like being in the twilight zone lol

 

[goatwack]

Jesus. Now this corrupt industry has got pigeons addicted

 

[Mouche12]

That's a long-known fact. Addiction can be conditioned in animals but humans have free will and more elaborate skills to deal with addiction.

 

[Guntis]

I just dont understand, how a bad run, or luck, or bad period of perhaps over weeks, could turn not just one slot cold, but all the slots cold as fuck. You'd say that all those games would have a indepedent RTP and not a 'casinowide' rtp.

Like for instance, when this luck turns back, it just cant go wrong on all slots and that is what bothers me. I think we should no longer look at that any game is random (the basegame is, big wins aint) but the serversided thing makes it random. It's pretty much proven by now that casino's do use a redistribution system over all deposits done by their players.

So if anyone is facing 'bad luck' after a big initial win or withdrawl, i think here you have the answer.

Try to leave slots alone for a few weeks and then try your favourite game or games again. I noticed that it makes some difference.

I'm not going to prove anything here. It comes from my personal experience.

 

[sufferinsilence]

the game max buy was changed to 2k and i cannot repeat it anymore.

So you got very lucky on the €500 buys, they probably thought you would come back for more and upped the max stake hoping you'd give everything and a bit more back. If you have a "VIP" manager there you probably told them your story of how you made so much and (s)he happily relayed that back to other staff.

 

[Bloatgoat]

I dont tell those people squat. After that 65k they pretty much offered me dinners, shows, anything you could imagine. I said, sorry no, this thing is 200km away from me, no i cant at that date, i know the tricks of VIP managers. I've bin a VIP in a local casino too. Cool tho eating stake on the house every time, but really, not my thing, let alone world i'd like to stay in to.

You are the money, and as long as you keep giving in they will threat you all you like.

 

[goatwack]

I was a VIP once. But then I woke up

 

[Jono777]

I was a VIP once. But then I woke up

I actually used to get a (approx) once a fortnight call from someone called 'Ayanda' (also Richard same person) who told me that he was my VIP manager.

He was from Cinema Casino (on tip of my tongue but can't recall the group name, not Palace, Not Digimedia, not Fortune Lounge, not Belle Rock, the other one ) - I used to get NDB, bonuses with low(er) wagering, a mug (me?) but never lunch or holidays, what was I doing wrong

 

[Bloatgoat]

Not spend enough. They gave me a brand new Apple Watch worth 400.

They simply keep track of your deposits on weekly / monthly basis and based upon that you fall in a certain category. All with intention to keep on playing.

 

[slotmaster]

Not spend enough. They gave me a brand new Apple Watch worth 400.

They simply keep track of your deposits on weekly / monthly basis and based upon that you fall in a certain category. All with intention to keep on playing.

Well, that's literally how it works at like every casino in the world, except videoslots as they hate loyalty. The more you spend the more rewards and perks you get.

 

[jacKofKats]

Hello

Trancemonkey - what's your view on persistent equity features - such as the boardgame bonus (with improved houses and hotels based on bet size) in Monopoly Here and Now (IGT) and more recently Kingmaker MegaWays (BTG)? Does the industry believe that players resent them for "trapping" them on a game whilst they feel compelled to wait for the feature to kick?

When I have played these games myself I experience a huge level of indecision. I cannot tell whether I want the bonus to trigger or to collect more equity. And often even when you have a large amount of equity this often makes no difference to the bonus as you come away from an average session with as much as you make on a "banging" sesh.

And more importantly what do you think to the games that are trying it now? Playzidos Poppin Potions or Push Gaming's Wizard Shop, where you collect reel symbols and spend them in a shop?

Be interested to know views as I'd love to see this mechanic work.

 

[trancemonkey]

Hello

Trancemonkey - what's your view on persistent equity features - such as the boardgame bonus (with improved houses and hotels based on bet size) in Monopoly Here and Now (IGT) and more recently Kingmaker MegaWays (BTG)? Does the industry believe that players resent them for "trapping" them on a game whilst they feel compelled to wait for the feature to kick?

When I have played these games myself I experience a huge level of indecision. I cannot tell whether I want the bonus to trigger or to collect more equity. And often even when you have a large amount of equity this often makes no difference to the bonus as you come away from an average session with as much as you make on a "banging" sesh.

And more importantly what do you think to the games that are trying it now? Playzidos Poppin Potions or Push Gaming's Wizard Shop, where you collect reel symbols and spend them in a shop?

Be interested to know views as I'd love to see this mechanic work.

I like persistence up to a limit... but everyone has a very different limit. The important thing for me is that the persistent features must have a clear benefit for amount collected - so it needs to be fair. I am sure some games have taken it too far.

I haven't seen real money games where you collect to spend in a shop (other than the Quickspin games where you could save up for Free Games), so i'll check these out - but this is very similar to the way a lot of social slots work - so i don't have a problem with this.

 

[RickyMicky]

Ask anythinh about slots? - How to win online slots? Or mission is impossible??

 

[trancemonkey]

Ask anythinh about slots? - How to win online slots? Or mission is impossible??

If there was a secret to winning, I would be a millionaire

 

[ebamori]

I have a question about repetitive near misses.
Is this just lazy programming or is it the intention of the provider to influence the player by use of the above.
The game in question is Midas Touch by Thunderkick.
I started playing this about a month ago and was very fortunate to get the miraculous 3000x hit just after I had raised the bet.
Naturally, since then I have played this slot a lot, albeit on extremely low stakes and so I am still well ahead and my observation is not influenced by the burden of losses.
What I am seeing after thousands of spins is a continuous appearance of a mega tease on the first and second reel followed by a no show of the scatter on the third and fourth and then the scatter comes into view on fifth with the timing indicating that it will have to stop on the fourteenth square for the scatter to only slide slowly and out of view missing the fifteenth and final square altogether.
This unpleasant full blown tease happens way too frequently and is always identical.
I have found that the effect on me is almost physical. My stomach actually lurches when this happens.
It’s not only tilting but almost taunting. I am a fairly disciplined player but my equilibrium and ability to play calmly often disappear after this happens three or more times in a session.
I’ve been playing slots ages and I was under the impression that certainly in land based casinos, slot machines were no longer permitted to use these tactics on the player.
Surely this is nothing more than a tilt to get the player to spend more money chasing something that is programmed not to happen.

 

[The Reel Story]

I have a question about repetitive near misses.
Is this just lazy programming or is it the intention of the provider to influence the player by use of the above.
The game in question is Midas Touch by Thunderkick.
I started playing this about a month ago and was very fortunate to get the miraculous 3000x hit just after I had raised the bet.
Naturally, since then I have played this slot a lot, albeit on extremely low stakes and so I am still well ahead and my observation is not influenced by the burden of losses.
What I am seeing after thousands of spins is a continuous appearance of a mega tease on the first and second reel followed by a no show of the scatter on the third and fourth and then the scatter comes into view on fifth with the timing indicating that it will have to stop on the fourteenth square for the scatter to only slide slowly and out of view missing the fifteenth and final square altogether.
This unpleasant full blown tease happens way too frequently and is always identical.
I have found that the effect on me is almost physical. My stomach actually lurches when this happens.
It’s not only tilting but almost taunting. I am a fairly disciplined player but my equilibrium and ability to play calmly often disappear after this happens three or more times in a session.
I’ve been playing slots ages and I was under the impression that certainly in land based casinos, slot machines were no longer permitted to use these tactics on the player.
Surely this is nothing more than a tilt to get the player to spend more money chasing something that is programmed not to happen.

To the best of my knowledge (and being true for every game I have ever worked on, which is quite a lot) 'near misses' are not programmed in. Slots are based on defined reel sets, and they stop where the RNG tells them to stop. So any kind of near miss you experience is likely to be a matter of luck.

The exception here could be that, if the game is not rendering realistic reel sets during the spin animation, so only the 'landed' symbols are the real ones and everything above, below and that flies past is just a random selection. In this instance you could see the scatter more often than normal (esp if the programmers have just given an even chance to select any symbol to display). In this case that would be lazy programming indeed, and I have seen this in games (normally where you see 2 scatters next to each other fly past, which is actually impossible to land). Pretty rare in modern games though.

Thunderkick games are pretty high quality and I believe they render actual reel sets (although I'm not 100% sure on that) so I'd be surprised to see 'lazy programming' as above.

 

[trancemonkey]

To the best of my knowledge (and being true for every game I have ever worked on, which is quite a lot) 'near misses' are not programmed in. Slots are based on defined reel sets, and they stop where the RNG tells them to stop. So any kind of near miss you experience is likely to be a matter of luck.

The exception here could be that, if the game is not rendering realistic reel sets during the spin animation, so only the 'landed' symbols are the real ones and everything above, below and that flies past is just a random selection. In this instance you could see the scatter more often than normal (esp if the programmers have just given an even chance to select any symbol to display). In this case that would be lazy programming indeed, and I have seen this in games (normally where you see 2 scatters next to each other fly past, which is actually impossible to land). Pretty rare in modern games though.

Thunderkick games are pretty high quality and I believe they render actual reel sets (although I'm not 100% sure on that) so I'd be surprised to see 'lazy programming' as above.

Well, they could have many sets of reel bands, and maybe one has many scatters on reels 1 and 2.

As with any game maths, if you tease people too much it can really annoy them and have the opposite effect to what you want, which is excitement.

 

[VismundCygnus]

Well, they could have many sets of reel bands, and maybe one has many scatters on reels 1 and 2.

As with any game maths, if you tease people too much it can really annoy them and have the opposite effect to what you want, which is excitement.

I think the more uncanny thing here is the description of the fifth reel seemingly always landing in a way where a scatter lands position beneath the bottom row. Is it common for developers to weight certain stops on the reels or have a virtual reel that make a specific result like that more common?

 

[trancemonkey]

I think the more uncanny thing here is the description of the fifth reel seemingly always landing in a way where a scatter lands position beneath the bottom row. Is it common for developers to weight certain stops on the reels or have a virtual reel that make a specific result like that more common?

Weighting symbols is very very common, but weighting it so it happens so often it gets annoying is just stupid.

 

[Spikie]

I have a question about Wild Swarm.

I read on another forum that Push Gaming took into account that people would build a swarm on low stakes and try and hit the swarm in high stakes .

Apparently the game does not take an average stale amount like other games do. From what I have read whilst building the swarm you get the full rtp base mode , but once you reach max hive the game goes into mega low rtp mode, but each bee has a 1 in 35 chance in triggering the swarm.

The swarm seems to pay anywhere between 10x and 1000x generally.

So how can they test and certify the full rtp of the game , do these billions of spins have millions of spins on 10p build swarm and then £20 when hive is full ? And also millions on straight play stakes ?

Seems complicated ... or really clever.

Is it like built in random compensation ?

 

[trancemonkey]

I have a question about Wild Swarm.

I read on another forum that Push Gaming took into account that people would build a swarm on low stakes and try and hit the swarm in high stakes .

Apparently the game does not take an average stale amount like other games do. From what I have read whilst building the swarm you get the full rtp base mode , but once you reach max hive the game goes into mega low rtp mode, but each bee has a 1 in 35 chance in triggering the swarm.

The swarm seems to pay anywhere between 10x and 1000x generally.

So how can they test and certify the full rtp of the game , do these billions of spins have millions of spins on 10p build swarm and then £20 when hive is full ? And also millions on straight play stakes ?

Seems complicated ... or really clever.

Is it like built in random compensation ?

I honestly have no idea how they could get that through compliance if the game changed its maths completely once the hive was full UNLESS it specifically said what it was doing in the help pages, and even then, I'm not sure how that would pass compliance.

I admit I don't know enough about the game to comment further at this stage.

 

[RickyMicky]

If there was a secret to winning, I would be a millionaire

Oh yes me too and it would not be a super-profitable business, but a loss-making for sure.

 

[snorky510238]

To the best of my knowledge (and being true for every game I have ever worked on, which is quite a lot) 'near misses' are not programmed in. Slots are based on defined reel sets, and they stop where the RNG tells them to stop. So any kind of near miss you experience is likely to be a matter of luck.

The exception here could be that, if the game is not rendering realistic reel sets during the spin animation, so only the 'landed' symbols are the real ones and everything above, below and that flies past is just a random selection. In this instance you could see the scatter more often than normal (esp if the programmers have just given an even chance to select any symbol to display). In this case that would be lazy programming indeed, and I have seen this in games (normally where you see 2 scatters next to each other fly past, which is actually impossible to land). Pretty rare in modern games though.

Thunderkick games are pretty high quality and I believe they render actual reel sets (although I'm not 100% sure on that) so I'd be surprised to see 'lazy programming' as above.

Napoleon, DOA and Montezuma are just 3 which display scatters that are impossible to land.

 

[brianmon]

Napoleon, DOA and Montezuma are just 3 which display scatters that are impossible to land.

And DOA only started doing it after the HTML5 conversion. It never happened with the flash version.
It's been done VERY deliberately.
In fact it was worse, when first released, with scatters above the frame, on almost every reel, every spin.
I think they eventually realised they'd gone too far with it an reduced the number showing

 

[snorky510238]

And DOA only started doing it after the HTML5 conversion. It never happened with the flash version.
It's been done VERY deliberately.
In fact it was worse, when first released, with scatters above the frame, on almost every reel, every spin.
I think they eventually realised they'd gone too far with it an reduced the number showing

Yes agreed. I am really referring to the fact that you can get a scatter on the central win line (say reel 3) and also have one showing just above the frame on reel 3. Meaning if you move the reel down one position you would have 2 in view on the same reel which we know can’t happen on DOA.

Napoleon does the same only the symbols show below the frame and Montezuma if you watch closely, very occasionally you will see 2 scatters on reel 1 go past that are next to each other.

I first started noticing this sort of thing when Spartacus first came out. I played the game over and over. The reels spin so slowly that it is possible to see abnormalities occurring.

When you hit 2 scatters on the small screen you will occasionally see a symbol on reel 8 that doesn’t resemble any known symbol of the game. It looks like a deformed colosseum. Also when waiting for a third scatter the reel layout changes. This typically happens on reel 8 and particularly on reel 10. Scatters that are normally in a certain place seem to get overlaid by a repetitive blanket of symbols that are not normally there. On the flip side if it wants to give the feature a scatter appears where there usually isn’t one.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I honestly have no idea how they could get that through compliance if the game changed its maths completely once the hive was full UNLESS it specifically said what it was doing in the help pages, and even then, I'm not sure how that would pass compliance.

I admit I don't know enough about the game to comment further at this stage.

Is it possible the swarm could be a video like jammie jars bonus?

 

[trancemonkey]

Yes agreed. I am really referring to the fact that you can get a scatter on the central win line (say reel 3) and also have one showing just above the frame on reel 3. Meaning if you move the reel down one position you would have 2 in view on the same reel which we know can’t happen on DOA.

Napoleon does the same only the symbols show below the frame and Montezuma if you watch closely, very occasionally you will see 2 scatters on reel 1 go past that are next to each other.

I first started noticing this sort of thing when Spartacus first came out. I played the game over and over. The reels spin so slowly that it is possible to see abnormalities occurring.

When you hit 2 scatters on the small screen you will occasionally see a symbol on reel 8 that doesn’t resemble any known symbol of the game. It looks like a deformed colosseum. Also when waiting for a third scatter the reel layout changes. This typically happens on reel 8 and particularly on reel 10. Scatters that are normally in a certain place seem to get overlaid by a repetitive blanket of symbols that are not normally there. On the flip side if it wants to give the feature a scatter appears where there usually isn’t one.

So the reason you see two scatters next to each other on the reels sometimes is likely because of the way reel bands are constructed.

When you press start, the reels start to spin. When the reels are about to stop, the correct reel bands for the outcome are spliced in. If the code is not well constructed, you could splice a scatter next to another scatter...

 

[The Reel Story]

I have a question about Wild Swarm.

I read on another forum that Push Gaming took into account that people would build a swarm on low stakes and try and hit the swarm in high stakes .

Apparently the game does not take an average stale amount like other games do. From what I have read whilst building the swarm you get the full rtp base mode , but once you reach max hive the game goes into mega low rtp mode, but each bee has a 1 in 35 chance in triggering the swarm.

The swarm seems to pay anywhere between 10x and 1000x generally.

So how can they test and certify the full rtp of the game , do these billions of spins have millions of spins on 10p build swarm and then £20 when hive is full ? And also millions on straight play stakes ?

Seems complicated ... or really clever.

Is it like built in random compensation ?

I honestly have no idea how they could get that through compliance if the game changed its maths completely once the hive was full UNLESS it specifically said what it was doing in the help pages, and even then, I'm not sure how that would pass compliance.

I admit I don't know enough about the game to comment further at this stage.

Agree with Trance, I highly doubt the maths model is changing much (if at all). I think the swarm feature actually has limited impact on the RTP, so the hive filling and after the hive is filled are probably nearly the same RTP. It's more a psychological trick to make people think they can game the system, then waste all their money trying to 'pop' the hive because they built it up.

No proof for that, but as it still takes hundreds of spins to 'pop' the hive, even once it's full, it would make sense. Basically it's a bit like Lil' Devil. The heartstopper bonus is made out to be this incredible thing, but in reality it's only very slightly better (at best) than a standard bonus.

 

[Kroffe]

Agree with Trance, I highly doubt the maths model is changing much (if at all). I think the swarm feature actually has limited impact on the RTP, so the hive filling and after the hive is filled are probably nearly the same RTP. It's more a psychological trick to make people think they can game the system, then waste all their money trying to 'pop' the hive because they built it up.

No proof for that, but as it still takes hundreds of spins to 'pop' the hive, even once it's full, it would make sense. Basically it's a bit like Lil' Devil. The heartstopper bonus is made out to be this incredible thing, but in reality it's only very slightly better (at best) than a standard bonus.

But you can pop it first bee when its full tho right?
Im sure ive seen bandit fill it on 20p and pop it on €10 or whatever, and get it within his first 100 autos.

 

[The Reel Story]

But you can pop it first bee when its full tho right?
Im sure ive seen bandit fill it on 20p and pop it on €10 or whatever, and get it within his first 100 autos.

You can, yes. The same way you can pop a bonus on your first spin of any game. The question is, are you LIKELY to?

You're assuming the swarm bonus is super special. You'd probably find that, if they got rid of the 'fill' mechanic, and just had the hive full all the time, the RTP would be very similar to what it is with the fill mechanic enabled

 

[Smithyy]

Hey Trance,

Bit of a strange question - wondering if you know an answer!

There's a HTML5 slot from Quickspin, and I absolutely love the soundtrack. Like I genuinely find it very relaxing, and soothing! I know it sounds lame lol, but I'd love to be able to download the music just to listen to when i'm stressed!

Do you know if there's any way of doing this? Like, finding the music track to listen to?

Thank you!

 

[trancemonkey]

Hey Trance,

Bit of a strange question - wondering if you know an answer!

There's a HTML5 slot from Quickspin, and I absolutely love the soundtrack. Like I genuinely find it very relaxing, and soothing! I know it sounds lame lol, but I'd love to be able to download the music just to listen to when i'm stressed!

Do you know if there's any way of doing this? Like, finding the music track to listen to?

Thank you!

You could reach out directly to Quickspin.. depends if they have got it from a 3rd party or in house as to how easy it would be to get hold of it...

 

[Smithyy]

You could reach out directly to Quickspin.. depends if they have got it from a 3rd party or in house as to how easy it would be to get hold of it...

Yes I already tried that - Didnt get a response Guess it is a weird question to ask lol

 

[trancemonkey]

Loop

Yes I already tried that - Didnt get a response Guess it is a weird question to ask lol

Did you try and Shazam it?

 

[The Reel Story]

Hey Trance,

Bit of a strange question - wondering if you know an answer!

There's a HTML5 slot from Quickspin, and I absolutely love the soundtrack. Like I genuinely find it very relaxing, and soothing! I know it sounds lame lol, but I'd love to be able to download the music just to listen to when i'm stressed!

Do you know if there's any way of doing this? Like, finding the music track to listen to?

Thank you!

Which game? Quickspin don't appear to package up their MP3's in any way. You can just sniff the traffic and download the MP3.