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elrudo

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Location
Netherlands
Q: how come that for a substantial percentage of online games, the spinning pace is not the same for winning or bonus spins compared to losing spins? In many slots the game lags or is sped up slightly for a winning or a bonus spin.

Could you think of a slot design solution for this issue?
 

elrudo

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Location
Netherlands
Q: do you feel that slot development is dictated by budget/time/slot template/other constraints too much?

Q: do you feel that you'd come up with something really different from current slots given a year of development time and ample other resources?
 

elrudo

Experienced Member
MM
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Location
Netherlands
Q: for slots that feature bonus buys: does triggering a bonus from the base game 'bring the player at the same point' as triggering the bonus by buying it?
Please elaborate in case it depends.
 

News Hound

Casinomeister News
Staff member
CAG
MM
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Feb 15, 2019
Great feedback and suggestions so far, keep them coming. Also keep an eye out for this Friday's interview which is set to be published within the next couple of hours.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Why do providers seemingly rarely, if ever, roll out bug fixes?
A couple that spring to mind, the pause on Bonanza if it isn't a winning cascade
The stutter when you start a spin on Novomatics if there's a win about to drop in, or a bigger one for bigger wins.
Both have been there years, why don't they fix them?
 

Slotter

Experienced Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2020
Location
UK
How do slot developers define 'random' ? It can mean a lot of different things in different contexts and I struggle to see and believe each spin is random and independent of the last.

Also, why do slots payout much better in demo than real mode when they are supposed to be the exact same game?
 

Slotplayer83

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Location
World
Or, why do casino's advertised demo games with the full potential, i.e max bets up to 40 a spin, and in the real deal being capped at 5 euro a spin? Second; some casino's load up low variances of games, you can tell by the URL being encoded in base64 where it ends with variance=low. Whats the difference other then a lower variance to a normal and intended game?

(I tried to actually change the url variance=high but that did'nt allow me to).
 

Seaman63

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Location
wild south
Why offering Slots with multiple Bonus Features which were not hittable during the first 1000 Spins of one slot session. Itś just more frustrating to see what one will never get. Better have only one or two bonus features and make it available within 100 - 200 Spins
 

Mouse75

Experienced Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2018
Location
Southport
How do games with a build up bonus such as Holy Diver or Lil Devil maintain equal RTP on every spin? How do they game mechanics accommodate this?

Some games you can change the volatility yourself - there being a toggle option on the screen. How does this actually change volatility - is it a different maths model on each setting but hitting same rtp?

Where you have a "choice" such as one of three boxes, and you win 10x but the other two options reveal 2x and 1000x, how does this equate to RTP? Does the RTP only reflect if you have chosen the 1000x option and is the rest of the RTP lost? Or is the three options given an average so the rtp calculation thinks the game has paid 337x?

How many choices are truly choices - and how many pick me bonuses are fully decided when triggered and the rest is smoke and mirrors?

Some Pragmatic games have a "bonus guarantee" built in (big Bass bonanza) - as does Gold Collector (Netent i think) which guarantees one of the free spins will be a hold and spin feature.... does this imply / confirm the entire bonus is predetermined?

None of these are meant aggressively - its genuine interest.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
How does bonus buys affect the RTP of slots? Slots with feature/bonus buy options are getting more and more frequent, and we see more and more slot streamers on twitch with insane wins buying bonuses. At the same time I feel that the normal slot playing with low stake is getting harder and harder. Basically, I get the feeling that the small stake players like myself are feeding the big shots that have sufficient money on hand to keep on buying bonuses. Yey or Ney?
This isn't how slots work. They aren't 'compensated' machines, where the slot 'fills up' and then eventually pays out. Each spin is independent and the play from other people (and indeed, your own play, unless there is some kind of 'collection' mechanic or shared jackpot) has no impact on any other spins.
How do games with a build up bonus such as Holy Diver or Lil Devil maintain equal RTP on every spin? How do they game mechanics accommodate this?

Some games you can change the volatility yourself - there being a toggle option on the screen. How does this actually change volatility - is it a different maths model on each setting but hitting same rtp?

Where you have a "choice" such as one of three boxes, and you win 10x but the other two options reveal 2x and 1000x, how does this equate to RTP? Does the RTP only reflect if you have chosen the 1000x option and is the rest of the RTP lost? Or is the three options given an average so the rtp calculation thinks the game has paid 337x?

How many choices are truly choices - and how many pick me bonuses are fully decided when triggered and the rest is smoke and mirrors?

Some Pragmatic games have a "bonus guarantee" built in (big Bass bonanza) - as does Gold Collector (Netent i think) which guarantees one of the free spins will be a hold and spin feature.... does this imply / confirm the entire bonus is predetermined?

None of these are meant aggressively - its genuine interest.
1. They don't. RTP is determined from the entire maths model, which will mean the collected 'super bonus' is taken into account. I.E, if you play and never collect a 'super bonus', you will, theoretically, be below the theoretical RTP. Things like Kingmaker where you collect multipliers can actually work in your benefit. If you are 'lucky' enough to not get a bonus, you'd end up playing a >100% RTP version of the game. Of course, the probability of the bonus is calculated as such to have statistically well before this point.

2. Yes, different maths models, same RTP.

3, 4. All pick bonuses are fake. You only ever get what you were given, regardless what you choose. However, even if they were real (like in Land based), the theoretical RTP would be calculated based on a mathamatical model that assumes the choices presented are mostly lower and therefore the chance of picking a big one can be calculated based off that.

5. Many bonuses are pre-determined, but that just means it is all calculated at the point you press spin, rather than every spin in the bonus being sent to the RNG. Regardless, it makes no difference to the implementation. If you've not hit a hold and spin or a min amount by the last spin, then it'll give you that value on the last spin. If all the spins were determined at the same time, then it could conceivably change the order of them and give you the winning one in the middle to make it less obvious. Doesn't really make any difference. It'll still be based on the logic of 'If last spin and winnings < 10x then give win'. That 'give win' bit could be set to give 10x, or it could just be 'keep rerolling the last spin until one of htem is bigger than 10x'. Lots of ways to do it.
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
Yes and does'nt that take a bit of the fun out of the experience completely ? this is just done for financial reasons for the casino obviously.
No, it makes no difference to the player. The result is still determined after you click spin. It's just does all the free spins in one go, and then shows you.

It's the same as throwing 5 dice one by one in front of the player, or throwing 5 dice behind a screen and then removing the screen (assuming the 'game round' was 5 dice). The result to the player is the same, it's just whether they see 5 dice one by one or all together.

The dice weren't thrown 6 months ago, they were only thrown when the player put their money down, and the dice are still random.

Also it's not done for financial reasons. It has no impact on the casino at all. It's done for technical reasons. Efficiency on the servers and expedience on the game client as there is less communication with the server (a lot less of a problem these days as Internet connections are much faster).
 
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Kroffe

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
No, it makes no difference to the player. The result is still determined after you click spin. It's just does all the free spins in one go, and then shows you.

It's the same as throwing 5 dice one by one in front of the player, or throwing 5 dice behind a screen and then removing the screen (assuming the 'game round' was 5 dice). The result to the player is the same, it's just whether they see 5 dice one by one or all together.

The dice weren't thrown 6 months ago, they were only thrown when the player put their money down, and the dice are still random.
Unless you are playing Jammin jars.
Those dice were thrown back in 2018. :p
 

Kroffe

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Yes, there are exceptions like Jammin. I agree, those take the fun out of it for me. That's why I don't play Jammin. That style is in the minority though, and really only exists for cluster games.
But would it make a difference?
Its not like i would be able to tell if Doa was just picking from a couple million pre-generated spins and showing them to me, right?
So would it really matter if it is generated when i press spin or back in 2013 when the slot was created?
 

The Reel Story

Experienced Member
Joined
May 5, 2019
Location
United Kingdom
But would it make a difference?
Its not like i would be able to tell if Doa was just picking from a couple million pre-generated spins and showing them to me, right?
So would it really matter if it is generated when i press spin or back in 2013 when the slot was created?
No, not really. It's just the principal for me. I don't like it. I like to know my result came from within the mechanics of the game in that moment. Personal preference tho ?
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
1. Why don't some slots have a True Skill element? (Like Rival used to have until Adobe Flash was withdrawn earlier this year) :(

2. Why do providers (especially MG & Netent) withdraw games?
I can understand licenced games, like The Dark Night, South Park, Aliens, etc... but WHY do they retire their own creations?

3. Do developers realise that giving casinos lower RTP versions of their games is akin to financial suicide?
(At least - I hope it is, because they don't deserve to profit from giving players much less play-time).

KK
 

lord flashheart

Experienced Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Location
UK
1. Why don't some slots have a True Skill element? (Like Rival used to have until Adobe Flash was withdrawn earlier this year) :(

2. Why do providers (especially MG & Netent) withdraw games?
I can understand licenced games, like The Dark Night, South Park, Aliens, etc... but WHY do they retire their own creations?

3. Do developers realise that giving casinos lower RTP versions of their games is akin to financial suicide?
(At least - I hope it is, because they don't deserve to profit from giving players much less play-time).

KK

1. Probably too easy to exploit.

2. If no-one is playing them, there's no point keeping them. Also, could be an error / exploit in the game that isn't worth them fixing.

3. Well, they were probably lobbied by casinos because of tax reasons. If big companies such as 365, William Hill, PP/Betfair ask them to make adjustable RTPs or we'll go elsewhere then they would probable give in fairly quickly
 

curremon

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Location
finland
Why pragmatic can do this with their slots ? Its pretty obvious that streamers use some "promo versions" of their slots at those scam casinos like roobet ? Not in a million years for example fruit party pays out max wins that often at normal casinos... Why is this allowed ?
 

brianmon

Ueber Meister
webby
mm4
Joined
May 22, 2013
Location
Cumbria
But would it make a difference?
Its not like i would be able to tell if Doa was just picking from a couple million pre-generated spins and showing them to me, right?
So would it really matter if it is generated when i press spin or back in 2013 when the slot was created?
Just think about getting a full screen of wilds on DOA, it might be highly improbable, but still possible if the game runs completely randomly.
But that result would probably have previously been removed from the 'pool' of wins, if the results weree predefined.
Predefining the spins means you can pick and choose the results you want to include in the 'pool'. Therefore limit the maximum win, set the RTP and define the variance profile.
It would also be an easier way to set the variance based on the stake amount.
 

Kroffe

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Just think about getting a full screen of wilds on DOA, it might be highly improbable, but still possible if the game runs completely randomly.
But that result would probably have previously been removed from the 'pool' of wins, if the results weree predefined.
Predefining the spins means you can pick and choose the results you want to include in the 'pool'. Therefore limit the maximum win, set the RTP and define the variance profile.
It would also be an easier way to set the variance based on the stake amount.
Thing is it could be taking from a pool of 'pre-made' spins right now, and we wouldnt be able to tell.
Thats what i meant when i said it really wouldnt matter since we wouldnt be able to tell the difference.
 

News Hound

Casinomeister News
Staff member
CAG
MM
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Kudos to those of you that have come up with questions, many of which have been and will be incorporated into further interviews which we have undertaken.

I can confirm that we have a further 6 studios lined up to be interviewed. Whilst nothing published today, expect normal service to resume next Friday.
 

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