Announcement from the GRA concerning Hilo and ReelDeal games

[ChopleyIOM]

Part of me is convinced that this whole 'response' from the GRA will simply turn out to be the work of a very elaborate troll and hoax artist, who has somehow managed to convince Bryan that he is actually Phil Brear of the GRA.

The other option is, heaven help us all, that this really is Phil Brear, and this really is what the GRA thinks of the player community.

They think we're a bunch of frauds and crooks, pushing private agendas and engaged in dodgy activity ourselves, scarcely worthy of recognition, let alone any actual protection. Mr Brear sounds to me like he's scraped things off the bottom of his shoe that he has more regard for than the average player.

THE GRA ARE A BUSTED FLUSH - IMO Bryan absolutely must knock this jurisdiction down to 'junk' status and STRONGLY ADVISE players that the GRA is a sham regulator which players cannot depend on to perform even the most basic functions that a regulator is supposed to be responsible for.

They have completely failed to address the core of the original complaint to the point of wilful ignorance and/or incompetence, they seem determined to pursue the campaign against 'katie91' despite no one apart from them having given one flying monkey turd about him/her for months, and they're now apparently turning on the CM community as well.

Seriously people, we waited six months for this - and look at what we've got!

Mr Brear mutters darkly about the threat to a 'legitimate industry' that players such as katie91 represent, and any of us who support them. (I'm also alarmed by his semi-threat levelled against people signing the petition, and also his suggestion that he's party to knowledge about CM members that, quite frankly, he really shouldn't be.)

You know what I think represents a threat to a 'legitimate industry'? The GRA.

This whole episode, now rounded off with the appalling response from the GRA, is what represents a threat to this industry - because this is just the sort of thing that governments will sieze on to demonstrate that the current system of regulation is broken beyond words.

Any casino worth a damn will be out of that jurisdiction like a bat out of hell.

 

[dunover]

Like I said before, those who staff these GA's like GRA are mainly ex-civil employees doing a few years 'work' before retirement while on pensions from their previous occupations. I seriously doubt, other than letter-writing (which we have had a brilliant example of) and form filling/stamping they have any applicable skills to the actual industry they claim to regulate. I reiterate, we have to hope that in the near future UK players will be playing solely in casinos that have a direct UK-based regulator or the jurisdiction of such which will in turn develop protection and practices conducive to overall fairness to the consumer. Similar to those finance companies operating in the UK which have to, under threat of punitive fines, meet very exacting and precise standards.

The days when the Gambling Commission can allow casinos here to be regulated by Malta, Gibraltar, Timbuktu or Christmas Island in the manner ships' owners would use Panama as a flag of convenience must surely come to an end.

No industry exists in the UK or any other developed country where such a huge amount of turnover and cash can be overseen by outsiders without any deference to consumer protection.

The GRA's smug and dismissive reply will hopefully stick in their minds when they clear their desks in a few years, untie their horses and ride off into obscurity after the industry in Europe is commonly and properly regulated and their 'services' are thus superfluous.

 

[maphesto]

Part of me is convinced that this whole 'response' from the GRA will simply turn out to be the work of a very elaborate troll and hoax artist, who has somehow managed to convince Bryan that he is actually Phil Brear of the GRA.

This makes sense! That would probably be the only thing in this whole mess that really makes sense.

 

[Webzcas]

. Like I said before, those who staff these GA's like GRA are mainly ex-civil employees doing a few years 'work' before retirement while on pensions from their previous occupations. I seriously doubt, other than letter-writing (which we have had a brilliant example of) and form filling/stamping they have any applicable skills to the actual industry they claim to regulate.

Phil Brear used to be in the employ of the UK Gambling Commission. Prior to that I believe he was Deputy Chief Constable of Yorkshire Police. So hardly what you describe. If anything this makes it more shocking having read the two responses that Bryan has posted.

By the way, no one apart from the moderators and Bryan have access to the information which forum members used to sign up here on CM. Apart from what you have put on your public profile.

 

[dunover]

Phil Brear used to be in the employ of the UK Gambling Commission. Prior to that I believe he was Deputy Chief Constable of Yorkshire Police. So hardly what you describe. If anything this makes it more shocking having read the two responses that Bryan has posted.

By the way, no one apart from the moderators and Bryan have access to the information which forum members used to sign up here on CM. Apart from what you have put on your public profile.

No, that's EXACTLY what I said. Publicly paid employees (usually the constabulary like a couple of the GC I know about) who do their 30 years and get the pension. Then they fill up the years before retirement via the old boys' network with other publicly funded civil service/QUANGO work. This is a classic case of previous service and position being the main consideration for the role rather than aptitude for the actual skills required. We see this demonstrated on a macro scale in Whitehall every day; colossal mistakes, incompetence and inefficiency. But that's the way it is, and is always likely to be. Just muddle along, deflect the flak and shrug the shoulders.

 

[Richas]

This whole episode, now rounded off with the appalling response from the GRA, is what represents a threat to this industry - because this is just the sort of thing that governments will sieze on to demonstrate that the current system of regulation is broken beyond words.

Any casino worth a damn will be out of that jurisdiction like a bat out of hell.

Cheer up. The GRA is a dead man walking now. The Gambling (Licensing & Advertising) Bill will pass. This case alone proves that the GRA is not offering the same consumer protection as the UKGC so the threat of legal action by Gib based firms either in the UK or EU is now 100% doomed, frankly it has saved them wasting money on lawyers.

The sites have a choice - pay 1% for a discredited Gib licence and 15%(ish) on UK players or just pay 15% on UK players and use a UKGC licence.

I'm sorry that Gib is going to lose jobs out of this but we know who ended the legal obstacles for the UK coup de main for control of online gambling regulation and sooner or later his will be one of the jobs lost.

 

[dunover]

Cheer up. The GRA is a dead man walking now. The Gambling (Licensing & Advertising) Bill will pass. This case alone proves that the GRA is not offering the same consumer protection as the UKGC so the threat of legal action by Gib based firms either in the UK or EU is now 100% doomed, frankly it has saved them wasting money on lawyers.

The sites have a choice - pay 1% for a discredited Gib licence and 15%(ish) on UK players or just pay 15% on UK players and use a UKGC licence.

I'm sorry that Gib is going to lose jobs out of this but we know who ended the legal obstacles for the UK coup de main for control of online gambling regulation and sooner or later his will be one of the jobs lost.

Don't feel too sorry for him. A taxpayer-funded handsome pension from the Police plus gratuity, then a smaller one from his time at the GC, and no doubt another one from the GRA as a final instalment to his retirement and the world of gardening magazines, caravanning and the obligatory yapping small dog.

 

[mclee321]

The rude and impotent (in regards to actually doing his job) Mr Brear -

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Bad losers and scammers? Or genuine cases brushed under the carpet by a commission not wanting to rock the boat, keep the status quo, and continue ignoring anything that might make their jobs more difficult than the business lunches and Casino sponsored brown envelopes they are 'forced' to endure -

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Perhaps this incident soured Mr Brear to all online players, forever colouring anyone with a complaint a peasant and criminal -
Old / Expired Link

No objectivity, alleged cases of dishonestly, and not a shred of talent in investigation clearly. Just the man to be Police Chief or head a gaming commission!

 

[dunover]

The rude and impotent (in regards to actually doing his job) Mr Brear -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Bad losers and scammers? Or genuine cases brushed under the carpet by a commission not wanting to rock the boat, keep the status quo, and continue ignoring anything that might make their jobs more difficult than the business lunches and Casino sponsored brown envelopes they are 'forced' to endure -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Perhaps this incident soured Mr Brear to all online players, forever colouring anyone with a complaint a peasant and criminal -
Old / Expired Link

No objectivity, alleged cases of dishonestly, and not a shred of talent in investigation clearly. Just the man to be Police Chief or head a gaming commission!

Thanks, I've had a look at this. Betting coups in the UK are paid out - simples. Insider info has no bearing on bets that are timed to exact the best price and make money. That's gambling: especially in horseracing, which Mr. Curley has a history of making big bets on. This shows the utter foolishness of betting big on any entity NOT regulated in the UK or Ireland. To give this clearly unsuitable and incompetent yes-man the (disputable) powers to endorse non-payment of winnings based on any representation the casino/bookies makes is corrupt. One wonders what has really gone on for these summary decisions to always favour the keeping of winnings. I'd better stop there before I say what I really think and no doubt others too.



According to the claimants - Damian Hall, Rupert Collier, James Tetherton, Emmett Monaghan and Luke McBride, Mr Brear intends to "sit as judge in his own cause."
...
They argue that at an early stage of his investigation Mr Brear "evinced pre-judged conclusions that the claimants as a matter of fact had been involved in a betting coup and had used inside information when placing their bets and as a matter of law this equated to illegal activity which would invalidate their bets."
But they say that Mr Brear when approached failed to disclose either evidence or full rationale for his conclusions.
The five seek several orders including ones that would stop their payments being blocked and that would determine Mr Brear's direction to block as unlawful interference.

According to court papers and media ...
www.bookmakersreview.com, 3 Feb 2012 [cached]
According to court papers and media reports, the Barney Curley-Betfred.com case took a new twist when the punters who are owed more than £800k in unpaid winnings hired private detectives who followed Gambling Commissioner Phil Brear around Gibraltar to find proofs that he acted impartially towards them.
...
Whilst in Gibraltar, Betfred and 888 were instructed by Gambling Commissioner Phil Brear to freeze the winnners' accounts. ...
Gambling Commissioner Phil Brear is understood to have said the coup was a fraudulent enterprise based on deception and the systematic misuse of inside information.

 

[Richas]

I have no interest in betting coups or Curley. That is not really for this thread. This is about two software/regulatory issues - the Finsoft free game and the later Playtech free game where games were misrepresented between free and real play.

The finsoft one was hugely long running, the playtech one more recent and in some ways more worrying as it showed game play and RTP being altered without notification or retesting. Horse racing betting coups and a regulator resisting them is a totally different thing!

 

[dunover]

I have no interest in betting coups or Curley. That is not really for this thread. This is about two software/regulatory issues - the Finsoft free game and the later Playtech free game where games were misrepresented between free and real play.

The finsoft one was hugely long running, the playtech one more recent and in some ways more worrying as it showed game play and RTP being altered without notification or retesting. Horse racing betting coups and a regulator resisting them is a totally different thing!

Fair point, and I agree. But mclees post is relevant insomuch as the Sheriff in this case (also jailer, judge and jury it seems) has a record of the easy option regardless of evidence. I surmise because he hasn't the understanding of the industry to do his job. I mean, he can't even grasp the concept of 'case-in-law' when he has a bloody enormous precedent from IBAS and the UKGC in the betting case, so how you can you expect him to grasp the technicalities of gaming software behaviour and its description?

For whatever reason you may speculate, he has a clear preference to ally himself with the operators regardless of the evidence, and the player is considered a miscreant and inconvenience.

 

[chayton]

....and this really is what the GRA thinks of the player community.

They think we're a bunch of frauds and crooks, pushing private agendas and engaged in dodgy activity ourselves, scarcely worthy of recognition, let alone any actual protection. Mr Brear sounds to me like he's scraped things off the bottom of his shoe that he has more regard for than the average player.

This is the vibe I got too. Complete contempt.

 

[Richas]

Fair point, and I agree. But mclees post is relevant insomuch as the Sheriff in this case (also jailer, judge and jury it seems) has a record of the easy option regardless of evidence. I surmise because he hasn't the understanding of the industry to do his job. I mean, he can't even grasp the concept of 'case-in-law' when he has a bloody enormous precedent from IBAS and the UKGC in the betting case, so how you can you expect him to grasp the technicalities of gaming software behaviour and its description?

For whatever reason you may speculate, he has a clear preference to ally himself with the operators regardless of the evidence, and the player is considered a miscreant and inconvenience.

Ok I was wrong, I am interested in discussing horse racing coups and the UKGC and GRA failure on them but not in this thread! Start another on an appropriate board and I'll play. meanwhile this is about the misrepresentation of online games not horses and cheating in horse race betting.

 

[mimi26]

Phil Brear used to be in the employ of the UK Gambling Commission. Prior to that I believe he was Deputy Chief Constable of Yorkshire Police. So hardly what you describe. If anything this makes it more shocking having read the two responses that Bryan has posted.

By the way, no one apart from the moderators and Bryan have access to the information which forum members used to sign up here on CM. Apart from what you have put on your public profile.

Well that explains everything, well to me anyway

 

[dunover]

Ok I was wrong, I am interested in discussing horse racing coups and the UKGC and GRA failure on them but not in this thread! Start another on an appropriate board and I'll play. meanwhile this is about the misrepresentation of online games not horses and cheating in horse race betting.

Eh?? I don't think you understood my last post my friend!

 

[GOCC]

Part of the reading into the racehorse coup is relelvant and shows an unethical working relationship between the GRA and Betfred.

Part of the report was that Curleys solicitors hired Private Investigators to follow him and they observed him visiting Betfreds solicitors when he had no real business in being there.

Ive been to Gib on business and everyone knows everyone. You can be sat with a director of Ladbrokes and then the Finance Director of William Hills will come over for a chat. They are all pally pally on the rock

 

[mrmark21]

The rude and impotent (in regards to actually doing his job) Mr Brear -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Bad losers and scammers? Or genuine cases brushed under the carpet by a commission not wanting to rock the boat, keep the status quo, and continue ignoring anything that might make their jobs more difficult than the business lunches and Casino sponsored brown envelopes they are 'forced' to endure -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Perhaps this incident soured Mr Brear to all online players, forever colouring anyone with a complaint a peasant and criminal -
Old / Expired Link

No objectivity, alleged cases of dishonestly, and not a shred of talent in investigation clearly. Just the man to be Police Chief or head a gaming commission!

WOW Well that explains everything.

 

[GOCC]

Old / Expired Link

As much that his claims had attracted the comments of the British Horseracing Authority that stated it was not for the Gibraltar regulator to tell the racing authority they were wrong in the interpretation of the rules after the BHA found no wrongdoing in the series of bets placed by persons close to Barney Curley.

BetFred founder Fred Done was also criticized directly and accused of hiding behind the ruling of the Gibraltar's gambling Commissioner.


Old / Expired Link

The five punters who are owed more than £800k in unpaid winnings from BetFred.com might have found proofs Phil Brear acted impartially towards them

According to court papers and media reports, the Barney Curley-Betfred.com case took a new twist when the punters who are owed more than £800k in unpaid winnings hired private detectives who followed Gambling Commissioner Phil Brear around Gibraltar to find proofs that he acted impartially towards them.

...The five punters denied being fronts for Curley and hired private investigators that followed the Gibraltar Gambling Commissioner over a number of days, during which Phill Brear met with Betfred’s solicitors. A fact that according to lawyers for the five punters is evidence that Mr Brear breached confidentiality and acted in a prejudicial manner.

 

[Balthazar]

The five punters who are owed more than £800k in unpaid winnings from BetFred.com might have found proofs Phil Brear acted impartially towards them

Is there something going on that we aren't aware of between Betfred and Phil Brear? The way he personally and emotionally reacted to katie91, and now this?

 

[mrmark21]

Is there something going on that we aren't aware of between Betfred and Phil Brear? The way he personally and emotionally reacted to katie91, and now this?

Seem's that way.

 

[GrandMaster]

The five punters who are owed more than £800k in unpaid winnings from BetFred.com might have found proofs Phil Brear acted impartially towards them

Why is impartiality a problem?

 

[dunover]

Why is impartiality a problem?

Yeah, I saw that grammatical error too. I know what they meant though...

Let's say Mr. Brear was partial to a bit of cosying-up...

 

[ThePOGG]

I've got to say at this point, that as a social experiment I think the petition has proved the opposite of its intent. Given that only 21 people have signed it, it seems safe to assume that the silent majority either don't agree with myself and the people posting in this thread or aren't bothered enough to take the time out.

I realise there is a personal information issue, given that many people are uncomfortable providing names and addresses, but I had still hoped to get a bigger response than that.

Thanks to everyone who signed up, but I'm not convinced that the petition has done anything to support changes to the decision.

 

[dunover]

I've got to say at this point, that as a social experiment I think the petition has proved the opposite of its intent. Given that only 21 people have signed it, it seems safe to assume that the silent majority either don't agree with myself and the people posting in this thread or aren't bothered enough to take the time out.

I realise there is a personal information issue, given that many people are uncomfortable providing names and addresses, but I had still hoped to get a bigger response than that.

Thanks to everyone who signed up, but I'm not convinced that the petition has done anything to support changes to the decision.

I sympathise; you perceive apathy and that is understandable.
Can you guarantee that signing this, given that man's opinions about players, that we wouldn't be putting a yoke around our necks if we were ever to need any intervention from the GRA in future and that the signatories' details wouldn't be passed around all LA's? As people have stated on this thread, it's likely the GRA won't be relevant in the not too-distant future and for that we can only wish.

 

[ThePOGG]

I sympathise; you perceive apathy and that is understandable.
Can you guarantee that signing this, given that man's opinions about players, that we wouldn't be putting a yoke around our necks if we were ever to need any intervention from the GRA in future and that the signatories' details wouldn't be passed around all LA's? As people have stated on this thread, it's likely the GRA won't be relevant in the not too-distant future and for that we can only wish.

No I can't. I'm not upset or disappointed so to speak, it's just one less tool with which to try for a solution. I quite understand why readers may have chosen not to sign.