- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
It's hand written in Spanish. It's made out for dolares. She sent me a scanned copy. It looks like it was written by a 14 year old girl.
Angelciti (RTG) steal thousands of dollars of players' winnings.
- Thread starter caruso
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
aagh they are idiots.
Hacker eh?
Anyone with the saveloy to manipulate this software would win 1 royal & move on.
Plenty enough RTG's about.
Hacker eh?
Anyone with the saveloy to manipulate this software would win 1 royal & move on.
Plenty enough RTG's about.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
Come to think of it a hacker who could do this would probably hit a few flushes and a 4oak and peck away forever on the net.
I can imagine her distress after nine months and then receiving this sort of ill-graced treatment.
Perhaps this is another stalling technique whilst their stock manouevres continue?
Bryan, I trust she will keep you closely informed as her efforts to cash this instrument progress, and I hope you will continue to post developments here.
Perhaps this is another stalling technique whilst their stock manouevres continue?
Bryan, I trust she will keep you closely informed as her efforts to cash this instrument progress, and I hope you will continue to post developments here.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2002
Tell her to call the bank it was drawn on directly and find out if its real or not, and if it will clear. Then ask them what banks in the US will honor their checks and go thru them. Probably some big ones like Citibank, USBank, etc. would be the best bet. If necessary, open a checking account there just to clear the check then write yourself a check and close the account.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
The boys at RGT are already on top of this as well as the folks from Angelciti. It's a matter of finding a partner bank near the winner's residence (BofA, Citibank, etc.). This should be an easy fix, but it's all so unnecessary.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Looks like they're gonna wire her...
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Actually, they are going to wire her when she sends the check back to them. I guess they couldn't afford to put a stop on the check :wtf:
And if the cheque gets lost in the post?
I think they're probably on the level here, just massively incompetent (big surprise). That it could all be some kind of sadistic joke is almost beyond comprehension, but why can they not just stop the cheque? They've got at least $1,000 accrued on the interest over these past nine months. How much can a stopped cheque cost? And would they not have known the cheque would have been problematic? Why not just wire the money in the first place, particularly considering the amount involved?
I think they're probably on the level here, just massively incompetent (big surprise). That it could all be some kind of sadistic joke is almost beyond comprehension, but why can they not just stop the cheque? They've got at least $1,000 accrued on the interest over these past nine months. How much can a stopped cheque cost? And would they not have known the cheque would have been problematic? Why not just wire the money in the first place, particularly considering the amount involved?
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2000
I disagree. I think they're short of money and are stalling.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I pick d) all of the above.
Short of money, stalling, and a stupifying amount of idiotic player support issues. Complete incompetance.
If I were an affiliate of theirs, I would be hanging my head in shame. Something to dwell on...
...any affiliates out there???
Short of money, stalling, and a stupifying amount of idiotic player support issues. Complete incompetance.
If I were an affiliate of theirs, I would be hanging my head in shame. Something to dwell on...
...any affiliates out there???
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
Yes Bryan there are many affiliates.
The word Angelciti returns 4,730 results on google.Let alone roadrunner etc.How many are portals?I guess maybe 1/4,could be less.
The word Angelciti returns 4,730 results on google.Let alone roadrunner etc.How many are portals?I guess maybe 1/4,could be less.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I was being a bit sarcastic/tongue in cheek. I know there are a kagillion banner farms out there who don't give a flying rat's ass about the player, even though they feign so.
And what bugs me, is that most of these webmasters may pull some of the banners when the casino is getting slammed, but when they think the coast is clear, up go the banners.
These webmasters are spineless greedy dweebheads. They deserve a severe plooking.
And what bugs me, is that most of these webmasters may pull some of the banners when the casino is getting slammed, but when they think the coast is clear, up go the banners.
These webmasters are spineless greedy dweebheads. They deserve a severe plooking.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
Well i have plooked some myself but get called a troublemaker.
Have been told by people on what i consider to be opposite sides of the fence i am a hinderance to mediation.
Also don't like abusive people who try to plook thier ex partners life for leaving them.
(Message edited by amandajm on May 21, 2003)
Have been told by people on what i consider to be opposite sides of the fence i am a hinderance to mediation.
Also don't like abusive people who try to plook thier ex partners life for leaving them.
(Message edited by amandajm on May 21, 2003)
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2000
Here they are messing about with the voting powers of their shares. They can now sell stock with no fear that the shareholders will have any control over the company.
..........................................
Press Release Source: AngelCiti Entertainment, Inc.
AngelCiti Announces Significant Share Giveback and Re-Capitalization With Majority Shareholder
Wednesday May 21, 10:30 am ET
PEMBROKE PINES, Fla., May 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AngelCiti Entertainment, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: AGLC - News) announced that the company has entered into an agreement with Omega Ventures, Inc., the majority shareholder in AngelCiti, pursuant to which Omega will return 75 million common shares to the treasury of AngelCiti, approximating 52% of the current outstanding shares of the company. In exchange, Omega will receive 11,000 Preferred "Series A" shares, created by the Company, which shares shall solely be voting shares at 5,000 votes per share, and are not transferable into common shares of the Company. The re-structuring is anticipated to take effect on or about the week of June 30th.
"The Company has been actively pursuing several very attractive financing opportunities to fund the expedited growth of the Company," stated AngelCiti president George Gutierrez. "This transaction is a major demonstration of confidence in AngelCiti by Omega and one that we both feel will materially impact the Company's ability to grow, thrive and prosper."
"We are in this investment for the long haul," remarked Omega CEO Larry Hartman. "Despite AngelCiti's improving performance, the current capital structure was proving a slight impediment in attracting growth capital on attractive terms. This re-structuring will enable AngelCiti to grow that much more quickly, which we feel is in the best interests of the shareholders of both AngelCiti and Omega."
The Industry
A Bear Stearns report for the industry pegs annual revenue at $4.2 billion for 2003, while Christiansen Capital Advisors predicts a slightly more rosy picture pointing to an estimated $4.5 billion in revenue for calendar year 2002, saying 2005 revenue could exceed $10 billion. InformaMedia Group, which tracks electronic gambling, predicts that online gaming revenue will even reach $14.5 billion by 2006.
The Company
The Company's wholly owned subsidiary, Worldwide Management, provides gaming software to over a dozen gaming websites. AngelCiti's current websites include AngelCitiCasino.com, VacationCasino.com, StarbrightCasino.com, WelcomeToOurCasino.com, QuePasaCasino.com, UrlaubCasino.com LuckyDogCasino.com and many others.
This news release contains forward-looking statements regarding AngelCiti's business strategies and future plans of operations. Forward- looking statements involve known and unknown risk and uncertainties. The company's risks and uncertainties include: intense price competition, economic, political and regulatory uncertainties; the need to raise additional capital for growth and expansion and its reliance on the internet as a means for promoting the software it sublicenses. The forward-looking statements contained in this news release speak only as of the date hereof and AngelCiti disclaims any obligation to provide public updates, revisions or amendments to any forward-looking statements made herein to reflect changes in AngelCiti's expectations or future events.
Contact:
AngelCiti Entertainment, Inc.
Evelyn Fallas 800/908-9574
[email protected]
..........................................
Press Release Source: AngelCiti Entertainment, Inc.
AngelCiti Announces Significant Share Giveback and Re-Capitalization With Majority Shareholder
Wednesday May 21, 10:30 am ET
PEMBROKE PINES, Fla., May 21 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AngelCiti Entertainment, Inc. (OTC Bulletin Board: AGLC - News) announced that the company has entered into an agreement with Omega Ventures, Inc., the majority shareholder in AngelCiti, pursuant to which Omega will return 75 million common shares to the treasury of AngelCiti, approximating 52% of the current outstanding shares of the company. In exchange, Omega will receive 11,000 Preferred "Series A" shares, created by the Company, which shares shall solely be voting shares at 5,000 votes per share, and are not transferable into common shares of the Company. The re-structuring is anticipated to take effect on or about the week of June 30th.
"The Company has been actively pursuing several very attractive financing opportunities to fund the expedited growth of the Company," stated AngelCiti president George Gutierrez. "This transaction is a major demonstration of confidence in AngelCiti by Omega and one that we both feel will materially impact the Company's ability to grow, thrive and prosper."
"We are in this investment for the long haul," remarked Omega CEO Larry Hartman. "Despite AngelCiti's improving performance, the current capital structure was proving a slight impediment in attracting growth capital on attractive terms. This re-structuring will enable AngelCiti to grow that much more quickly, which we feel is in the best interests of the shareholders of both AngelCiti and Omega."
The Industry
A Bear Stearns report for the industry pegs annual revenue at $4.2 billion for 2003, while Christiansen Capital Advisors predicts a slightly more rosy picture pointing to an estimated $4.5 billion in revenue for calendar year 2002, saying 2005 revenue could exceed $10 billion. InformaMedia Group, which tracks electronic gambling, predicts that online gaming revenue will even reach $14.5 billion by 2006.
The Company
The Company's wholly owned subsidiary, Worldwide Management, provides gaming software to over a dozen gaming websites. AngelCiti's current websites include AngelCitiCasino.com, VacationCasino.com, StarbrightCasino.com, WelcomeToOurCasino.com, QuePasaCasino.com, UrlaubCasino.com LuckyDogCasino.com and many others.
This news release contains forward-looking statements regarding AngelCiti's business strategies and future plans of operations. Forward- looking statements involve known and unknown risk and uncertainties. The company's risks and uncertainties include: intense price competition, economic, political and regulatory uncertainties; the need to raise additional capital for growth and expansion and its reliance on the internet as a means for promoting the software it sublicenses. The forward-looking statements contained in this news release speak only as of the date hereof and AngelCiti disclaims any obligation to provide public updates, revisions or amendments to any forward-looking statements made herein to reflect changes in AngelCiti's expectations or future events.
Contact:
AngelCiti Entertainment, Inc.
Evelyn Fallas 800/908-9574
[email protected]
Check this out:
She took it down, now she's put it back up, assuming that the heat's died down.
I'm seriously speechless - I really didn't think she'd do this. What can you do?
(Sorry if the link screws up the page a bit).
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She took it down, now she's put it back up, assuming that the heat's died down.
I'm seriously speechless - I really didn't think she'd do this. What can you do?
(Sorry if the link screws up the page a bit).
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
AngelCiti is part of a group of casinos that all download to the same casino - Welcome to Our Casino. Of the group, AngelCiti offers the best first purchase bonus and a Spanish site, also. These casinos are backed by a solid company (Angelciti Entertainment), and they're putting a major emphasis on customer service. The playback here is pretty good and their payouts are VERY fast. Enjoy!
...major emphasis on customer service
...payouts are VERY fast
Sure - 9 months is fast. Only they didn't pay the 28K winner yet.
...major emphasis on customer service
...payouts are VERY fast
Sure - 9 months is fast. Only they didn't pay the 28K winner yet.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
This hits the nail on the head when it comes to why I left the GPWA the way I did. This woman is the president(?) of the Gambing Portal Webmasters Association and apparently doesn't give a rat's ass about her referred players. No one has forced her to place these banners up; she did it on her own.
And I am sure she is aware that the winner of the $28,555 royal flushes was finally sent a check that she couldn't cash. And now she's waiting for a wire. In other words, she has NOT been paid, and Angelciti is still stalling. Nothing has changed.
Actions, not words show the true character of this portal owner and the main spokesperson of the GPWA. What an embarrassment.
<hr size=0>quote:<p>I'm seriously speechless - I really didn't think she'd do this.<hr size=0>
C'mon now, be real! I was wondering what was taking her so long. Actually she's had banners up for Angelciti on her Gambling Girl.com website for a couple of days now.And I am sure she is aware that the winner of the $28,555 royal flushes was finally sent a check that she couldn't cash. And now she's waiting for a wire. In other words, she has NOT been paid, and Angelciti is still stalling. Nothing has changed.
Actions, not words show the true character of this portal owner and the main spokesperson of the GPWA. What an embarrassment.
The $28K winner is not the only one who still awaits payment, remember - there are also a number of players screwed by AC bonus and winnings disqualifications some two months or more back.
I'm trying to get my mind around the concept of the leader of the GPWA, who must know full well what the current position with AC is, wilfully putting their banners back up on her site.
A sad day for genuine portal masters and a sad day for the player community.
I'm trying to get my mind around the concept of the leader of the GPWA, who must know full well what the current position with AC is, wilfully putting their banners back up on her site.
A sad day for genuine portal masters and a sad day for the player community.
Having read Cindy's explanation on the "Sucks" forum (which she posted voluntarily after putting the ads back up) I'm not spitting quite so much blood. In essence she says it was about keeping the door open to them, showing them that if they make good, there is pardon to be had. I'm not at all happy about seeing grossly misleading ads, but what do you do? Stand on principle and get nowhere, or be a stinking whore for the chance of getting your money?
All of which is so unbelievably f**ked up.
All of which is so unbelievably f**ked up.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Oh, and just one other thing. If you think this is an act of appeasement by her to make Angelciti do the right thing, you're wrong. Why are these links affiliate links? This webmaster is concerned more about the bottom line (making a profit) than doing the right thing (pulling the ads). Her pull with RTG and Angelciti is close to nil. The only reason she gets involved is when the bad press is hurting her profits.
By the way, she never did pull the ads from gamblinggirl.com until I pointed out to her that they were still up about a month and a half ago.
A rogue portal owner, would you tend to agree?
By the way, she never did pull the ads from gamblinggirl.com until I pointed out to her that they were still up about a month and a half ago.
A rogue portal owner, would you tend to agree?
Never have I read such unadulterated BS as this, and Caruso apparently backing off therefore surprises me.
These AC folks have been approached reasonably by both players and mediators over an extended period, and only when the players and more principled webmasters resorted to consumer pressure at a sensitive time did AC budge from their questionable stand on these issues.
To now claim that players should smile whilst they are being screwed because it might help a resolution in these circumstances, and that they were wrong to voice their legit reservations about this group is ridiculous, as is taking banners down and then after a short interval putting them back up again because it might help a resolution.
Angelciti has kept a player waiting for 10 months on "suspicions" and "hunches" that have been totally unsubstantiated. This against a background that they originally tried to buy her off with a lesser amount than the $28K owed and clearly knew that she had won the payout fair and square.
After player and some honest webmaster pressure at a delicate stage in AC's convoluted corporate manoeuvrings they then accepted that the payment was due and sent her an uncashable check. Now they are insisting she return this check and only when it is received will they send a bankwire.
So essentially the issue is resolved - the payment and finalisation of the matter is outstanding and pressure should remain until that is achieved.
Over and above all of this, for the past three months the same group has connived and attempted unsuccessfully to talk its way out of a botched promo in which they invited gambling under certain conditions. Players accepted and gambled within those parameters whereupon the group embarked on a series of bad practices that included disqualifying the bonuses, attempting to retroactively change T&Cs and denied sending out specific invitations. Consequently a number of bona fide players have been financially prejudiced and the AC group is still "discussing" the issue?
And now the players are being castigated for posting their very legitimate complaints and concerns about AC by the webmaster who has seen fit to set an example by putting the advertising back up.
The logic escapes me. I am all in favour of attempting polite and controlled resolutions at casino management level before the application of consumer pressure, but that has been done over the history of these long-running issues and was not successful until players started applying their right to withhold business, warn others and when some webmasters dropped banners for a group who's actions were questionable to say the least.
These AC folks have been approached reasonably by both players and mediators over an extended period, and only when the players and more principled webmasters resorted to consumer pressure at a sensitive time did AC budge from their questionable stand on these issues.
To now claim that players should smile whilst they are being screwed because it might help a resolution in these circumstances, and that they were wrong to voice their legit reservations about this group is ridiculous, as is taking banners down and then after a short interval putting them back up again because it might help a resolution.
Angelciti has kept a player waiting for 10 months on "suspicions" and "hunches" that have been totally unsubstantiated. This against a background that they originally tried to buy her off with a lesser amount than the $28K owed and clearly knew that she had won the payout fair and square.
After player and some honest webmaster pressure at a delicate stage in AC's convoluted corporate manoeuvrings they then accepted that the payment was due and sent her an uncashable check. Now they are insisting she return this check and only when it is received will they send a bankwire.
So essentially the issue is resolved - the payment and finalisation of the matter is outstanding and pressure should remain until that is achieved.
Over and above all of this, for the past three months the same group has connived and attempted unsuccessfully to talk its way out of a botched promo in which they invited gambling under certain conditions. Players accepted and gambled within those parameters whereupon the group embarked on a series of bad practices that included disqualifying the bonuses, attempting to retroactively change T&Cs and denied sending out specific invitations. Consequently a number of bona fide players have been financially prejudiced and the AC group is still "discussing" the issue?
And now the players are being castigated for posting their very legitimate complaints and concerns about AC by the webmaster who has seen fit to set an example by putting the advertising back up.
The logic escapes me. I am all in favour of attempting polite and controlled resolutions at casino management level before the application of consumer pressure, but that has been done over the history of these long-running issues and was not successful until players started applying their right to withhold business, warn others and when some webmasters dropped banners for a group who's actions were questionable to say the least.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
If Cindy somehow swings it by putting the banners back up then she deserves some good beans for a change.
Seriously now.
Honest.
Seriously now.
Honest.
Jetset, I'm backing nowhere, I assure you. I'm trying to keep as many options open as possible.
Given such conciliatory gestures, I expect action.
If action is not forthcoming then I'd expect a renewed pulling of ads from all responsible affiliates, and I won't half kick up a fuss if it's not forthcoming.
Given such conciliatory gestures, I expect action.
If action is not forthcoming then I'd expect a renewed pulling of ads from all responsible affiliates, and I won't half kick up a fuss if it's not forthcoming.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Everyone needs to take a time out, and then read this:
And then think about the new unsuspecting players who enter this portal and reads this blatent lie.
Why wouldn't it state "These casinos are backed by a solid company (Angelciti Entertainment), and they've had some serious problems in the past, but we are giving them a second chance."
Why not?
Think about it.
<hr size=0>quote:<p>These casinos are backed by a solid company (Angelciti Entertainment), and they're putting a major emphasis on customer service.<hr size=0>
Take ten deep breaths, and then reread it again. Then think about what Caruso and the number of players who were denied their winnings, and the excellent customer support they received. And then think about the 28k winner who more or less kissed her winnings goodbye until I got involved.And then think about the new unsuspecting players who enter this portal and reads this blatent lie.
Why wouldn't it state "These casinos are backed by a solid company (Angelciti Entertainment), and they've had some serious problems in the past, but we are giving them a second chance."
Why not?
Think about it.
If there is a positive resolution to this issue it will be because Casinomeister has been on the AC asses and that like minded webmasters have been pulling their banners. And of course the sustained efforts of Caruso who has correctly stood up for his rights here. It will not be because individuals have put AC banners back up, although I have little doubt there will be a rush to claim thus.
Don't forget - they have effectively admitted that the money is due to the 10 month old client - the finalisation is the payment.
Don't forget - they have effectively admitted that the money is due to the 10 month old client - the finalisation is the payment.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
10 months to admit. How long to pay - since this most likely has been the problem from the beginning?
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
I've read a bit about the reasoning for putting up these banners, and I'm flabbergassed.
But then I could really give a flying rat's ass myself. When you type in "angelciti casino" at google, what comes up comes up. And when one types in "online casino information" or "online casino news" I'm there as well.
Seek and you will find.
Don't do your homework, and you're screwed.
But then I could really give a flying rat's ass myself. When you type in "angelciti casino" at google, what comes up comes up. And when one types in "online casino information" or "online casino news" I'm there as well.
Seek and you will find.
Don't do your homework, and you're screwed.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
I've read a bit about the reasoning for putting up these banners, and I'm flabbergassed.
But then I could really give a flying rat's ass myself. When you type in "angelciti casino" at google, what comes up comes up. And when one types in "online casino information" or "online casino news" I'm there as well.
Seek and you will find.
Don't do your homework, and you're screwed.
====================
Is not always that easy as you've found out atleast twice now ~B.
Who is screwing who next is a mobile target and you got people like me atleast making an effort to keep up with you guys,ok.
Be nice.
But then I could really give a flying rat's ass myself. When you type in "angelciti casino" at google, what comes up comes up. And when one types in "online casino information" or "online casino news" I'm there as well.
Seek and you will find.
Don't do your homework, and you're screwed.
====================
Is not always that easy as you've found out atleast twice now ~B.
Who is screwing who next is a mobile target and you got people like me atleast making an effort to keep up with you guys,ok.
Be nice.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
This just in!!!
Hi Bryan,
Well, my friend, you can put a fork in this one...the money is now in my account!!! I will never be able to thank you enough.. Please know that I sincerely appreciate all the time and effort you put into making a dream become a reality and that I'm sorry for the trouble you encountered because of it. I wish you could be cloned because the world would be a much better place with more people like you. You are AWESOME and I am your new friend for life!
Peace.
Karen
***in other words...she's finally been paid!!
:beer:
Hi Bryan,
Well, my friend, you can put a fork in this one...the money is now in my account!!! I will never be able to thank you enough.. Please know that I sincerely appreciate all the time and effort you put into making a dream become a reality and that I'm sorry for the trouble you encountered because of it. I wish you could be cloned because the world would be a much better place with more people like you. You are AWESOME and I am your new friend for life!
Peace.
Karen
***in other words...she's finally been paid!!
:beer:
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
Great! Will you start advertising Angelciti now?
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
He better not.
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2001
- Location
- London
Good news and great going ~B.
Top movement.
Top movement.
Jyde, don't say that; don't even dream you dreamt it.
Nice one. So they wired her before receiving the cheque? Now that Karen has seen fit to apologise for the trouble (????), do we think AC are now going to jump in and apologise for causing the trouble in the first place? You know, "f**k off and play your tricks elsewhere"; "you cheated us"; "RTG cheated us"; and then, after ALL THAT prevaricating, - payment sent.
Part 1 done with. Eagerly awaiting Part 2.
Nice one. So they wired her before receiving the cheque? Now that Karen has seen fit to apologise for the trouble (????), do we think AC are now going to jump in and apologise for causing the trouble in the first place? You know, "f**k off and play your tricks elsewhere"; "you cheated us"; "RTG cheated us"; and then, after ALL THAT prevaricating, - payment sent.
Part 1 done with. Eagerly awaiting Part 2.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Don't hold your breath Caruso.
Re. Cindy's decision to put the ad back up: I don't intend to be sprouting grey hairs before we see action as a result. What would a reasonable time frame be at this point? Two weeks or so? I think I can tolerate bullsh*t, misleading adverts where they shouldn't be (until all depts are settled at the very least) for a couple of weeks. If, at that point, it's still a case of "well, it's still work in progress", then, with all the good will in the world, I'll have to conclude that this was nothing more than more bullsh*t stalling tactics, and proceed from there. For the moment at least (stress "moment") I'm prepared to give the benefit of the doubt.
- Joined
- Jan 12, 2001
- Location
- Heaven
Cindy has said that she put up the ad because of another issue, not this particular one. But I do wish that she would reconsider the glowing recommendation LOL.
Congratulations on another excellent and particularly noteworthy recovery, Bryan. All without compromising your ethics.
But we're only half done, here folks. We still have the BS disqualifications on the AC promo, and for that reason it is important to maintain the profile and the pressure until the right thing is done.
If they meet those obligations, then that is the time to consider a pat on the back and a cautious "we hope you have seen the wrong turn you took there"
But we're only half done, here folks. We still have the BS disqualifications on the AC promo, and for that reason it is important to maintain the profile and the pressure until the right thing is done.
If they meet those obligations, then that is the time to consider a pat on the back and a cautious "we hope you have seen the wrong turn you took there"
Report on the mediation attempt - failed.
About three weeks ago I contacted a mediator / webmaster who I believed might be interested in attempting to resolve the matter between the aggrieved Blackjack players and Angelciti, regarding the 200% "sticky bonus" campaign which resulted in the theft of approximately $20,000 of our collective winnings. The person in question chooses to remain anonymous, so I'll call them "M" for brevity's sake.
Things looked very good for quite some time; contact was established with Larry Hartmann (the boss (chairman?) at Angelciti, along with his partner George). An offer was tentatively put on the table by M, by which the players would receive a 50% payment, the remaining 50% to be returned to our playing balances for further wagering - thus giving us a crack at winning our full cashouts back again. M pointed out this would need to be agreed by the players, but Larry liked the look of it. However, it would seem that Larry and George are not alone in the managerial equation - there are a host of "partners" to whom they answer, and who would need to be consulted before any deal could be agreed to. In the meantime, I stuck in a load of conditions of my own which basically would have given the players complete freedom in playing and cashing out from the 50% that would have been returned to our playing balances. M agreed that my conditions were fair, and reckoned a deal looked hopeful.
Larry has now informed M that there will be no deal - the "partners" have refused the offer.
Their reasoning is: many, if not all, the Blackjack players who LOST their deposits have now had those deposits refunded to them. If the casino were now to offer to pay the players from whom they stole the winnings even a PORTION of those winnings, this would result in a lose / lose situation for the casino. Winners win; losers have deposits refunded.
Sorry people, they're keeping our money. No deal.
Needless to say, M wasn't very happy about this, and while both of us comprehend the casino's stance, we both also entirely disagree with it. This was a botched-up job from the word go on the part of Angelciti; First, they lied: they quickly cobbled together a second Email offer, which discluded Blackjack, and claimed this was the ONLY offer that had ever existed - failing to note that the original Blackjack-inclusive one had been copiously posted all over the net! They also cobbled version no. 2 together so quickly that the part where they simply removed the reference to "all games inclusive" left ludicrously worded phrases and incorrect grammar! Read it for yourself: "At the AngelCiti family of casinos you can play everything*, from Caribbean Stud to from to Video Poker and still get this amazing 200% offer." They removed the games, but they forgot to remove the prepositions! After having had the evidence presented to them, they invoked their "right" to withhold winnings at their whim, citing an example of a recent occurrence with AMAZON as a reasonable precedent!
I would like to offer two maybe more relevant "precedents"; CON 007, Stanley Acropolis BJ 2:1 Day. On both these occasions, the casinos in question lost a lot of money. Casino On Net lost about, what $3,000,000, wasn't it? SA lost a packet as well, certainly in big six figures; in the case of Casino On Net, the 007 promo was a mistake - they really didn't know what they were letting themselves in for. In BOTH CASES, the casinos in question - QUALITY casinos - did the right thing and PAID THE PLAYERS IN FULL. The casino makes the error, so the CASINO ACCEPTS FULL RESPONSIBILITY. As such, they bought themselves a LOAD of goodwill and have gone from strength to strength since then.
Not so in the case of Angelciti: the casino accepted that the PLAYERS were right and THEY were wrong. Nonetheless, they refused to pay the winners, invoking their stated "right" to steal at will and as they see fit. This was for a grand total not exceedingwait for it$20,000. Not much, in comparison to what Casino On Net and Stanley Acropolis paid out, one has to say.
In the meantime, far from hanging their heads in some embarrassment over the whole thing and hoping that the matter would die away, they've been shamelessly issuing glowing press reports about their ever more profitable quarterly results and instructing their boilerroom brokers (
This is a casino without the remotest sense of fairplay or the smallest shred of decency.
There are upsides to all this; M is not a person without influence. In fact, I would take a guess that many adverts and affiliate relationships are going to bite the dust as a result of this. I'll certainly be doing what I can to ensure this happens to the maximum, and I know other interested parties who will not let this rest. Beyond that, there are matters currently in the melting pot which cannot be disclosed, but which are going to make life very uncomfortable for Angelciti.
In short: they won't be getting away with this.
I'd like to anonymously thank "M" for their assistance in this matter, who was really quite surprised and disappointed to have failed to achieve a resolution. I was also disappointed, as the casino had a great opportunity to put this matter to bed for good. I was not in slightest surprised, however.
(Bryan, please don't ever take them out the Rogue section; let them rot there for good.)
About three weeks ago I contacted a mediator / webmaster who I believed might be interested in attempting to resolve the matter between the aggrieved Blackjack players and Angelciti, regarding the 200% "sticky bonus" campaign which resulted in the theft of approximately $20,000 of our collective winnings. The person in question chooses to remain anonymous, so I'll call them "M" for brevity's sake.
Things looked very good for quite some time; contact was established with Larry Hartmann (the boss (chairman?) at Angelciti, along with his partner George). An offer was tentatively put on the table by M, by which the players would receive a 50% payment, the remaining 50% to be returned to our playing balances for further wagering - thus giving us a crack at winning our full cashouts back again. M pointed out this would need to be agreed by the players, but Larry liked the look of it. However, it would seem that Larry and George are not alone in the managerial equation - there are a host of "partners" to whom they answer, and who would need to be consulted before any deal could be agreed to. In the meantime, I stuck in a load of conditions of my own which basically would have given the players complete freedom in playing and cashing out from the 50% that would have been returned to our playing balances. M agreed that my conditions were fair, and reckoned a deal looked hopeful.
Larry has now informed M that there will be no deal - the "partners" have refused the offer.
Their reasoning is: many, if not all, the Blackjack players who LOST their deposits have now had those deposits refunded to them. If the casino were now to offer to pay the players from whom they stole the winnings even a PORTION of those winnings, this would result in a lose / lose situation for the casino. Winners win; losers have deposits refunded.
Sorry people, they're keeping our money. No deal.
Needless to say, M wasn't very happy about this, and while both of us comprehend the casino's stance, we both also entirely disagree with it. This was a botched-up job from the word go on the part of Angelciti; First, they lied: they quickly cobbled together a second Email offer, which discluded Blackjack, and claimed this was the ONLY offer that had ever existed - failing to note that the original Blackjack-inclusive one had been copiously posted all over the net! They also cobbled version no. 2 together so quickly that the part where they simply removed the reference to "all games inclusive" left ludicrously worded phrases and incorrect grammar! Read it for yourself: "At the AngelCiti family of casinos you can play everything*, from Caribbean Stud to from to Video Poker and still get this amazing 200% offer." They removed the games, but they forgot to remove the prepositions! After having had the evidence presented to them, they invoked their "right" to withhold winnings at their whim, citing an example of a recent occurrence with AMAZON as a reasonable precedent!
I would like to offer two maybe more relevant "precedents"; CON 007, Stanley Acropolis BJ 2:1 Day. On both these occasions, the casinos in question lost a lot of money. Casino On Net lost about, what $3,000,000, wasn't it? SA lost a packet as well, certainly in big six figures; in the case of Casino On Net, the 007 promo was a mistake - they really didn't know what they were letting themselves in for. In BOTH CASES, the casinos in question - QUALITY casinos - did the right thing and PAID THE PLAYERS IN FULL. The casino makes the error, so the CASINO ACCEPTS FULL RESPONSIBILITY. As such, they bought themselves a LOAD of goodwill and have gone from strength to strength since then.
Not so in the case of Angelciti: the casino accepted that the PLAYERS were right and THEY were wrong. Nonetheless, they refused to pay the winners, invoking their stated "right" to steal at will and as they see fit. This was for a grand total not exceedingwait for it$20,000. Not much, in comparison to what Casino On Net and Stanley Acropolis paid out, one has to say.
In the meantime, far from hanging their heads in some embarrassment over the whole thing and hoping that the matter would die away, they've been shamelessly issuing glowing press reports about their ever more profitable quarterly results and instructing their boilerroom brokers (
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) to attempt to dump their junk stock on the players whose privacy they have violated by passing their names on to them. Remember, those quarterly results contain large chunks of stolen money.This is a casino without the remotest sense of fairplay or the smallest shred of decency.
There are upsides to all this; M is not a person without influence. In fact, I would take a guess that many adverts and affiliate relationships are going to bite the dust as a result of this. I'll certainly be doing what I can to ensure this happens to the maximum, and I know other interested parties who will not let this rest. Beyond that, there are matters currently in the melting pot which cannot be disclosed, but which are going to make life very uncomfortable for Angelciti.
In short: they won't be getting away with this.
I'd like to anonymously thank "M" for their assistance in this matter, who was really quite surprised and disappointed to have failed to achieve a resolution. I was also disappointed, as the casino had a great opportunity to put this matter to bed for good. I was not in slightest surprised, however.
(Bryan, please don't ever take them out the Rogue section; let them rot there for good.)
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
Hi Caruso,
What a disappointment, but I am not surprised. I hope "M" will finally understand that this group should not be endorsed in anyway shape or form, and that he/she finally sees the light.
Most of these RTG casinos can NOT be trusted, and if you are screwed by them, there isn't much you can do about it.
What a disappointment, but I am not surprised. I hope "M" will finally understand that this group should not be endorsed in anyway shape or form, and that he/she finally sees the light.
Most of these RTG casinos can NOT be trusted, and if you are screwed by them, there isn't much you can do about it.
- Joined
- Jun 30, 1998
- Location
- Bierland
BTW, the Angelciti guys will be here. I'll let them know how I feel about this. Jetset is here as well and I'm sure he'll have a few words.
(Message edited by admin on June 16, 2003)
(Message edited by admin on June 16, 2003)
Well, well - AC still pumping out the hype and opening new operations on a shoestring it appears. It is not only players, but quite possibly unwary investors who are going to get burned here!
AngelCiti to Add on Two New Gaming Sites
Monday June 16, 7:59 am ET
PEMBROKE PINES, Fla., June 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AngelCiti Entertainment's (OTC Bulletin Board: AGLC - News) wholly owned subsidiary Worldwide Management announced that it entered into an agreement to provide software to RedDevilCasino.com and SharkCasino.com and will additionally provide affiliate support to help drive traffic and customers to those sites. It is anticipated that these sites will be integrated and fully operational within the next 30 days.
"We continue to seek out and bring on additional gaming sites to expand the Company's reach and increase profitability," remarked AngelCiti president George Gutierrez. "We are proud to provide services to these two new gaming sites and anticipate bringing on additional sites in the near future, with a particular emphasis on the Asian markets, which are currently experiencing explosive growth in both high-speed internet penetration and online gaming."
The Industry
A Bear Stearns report for the industry pegs annual revenue at $4.2 billion for 2003, while Christiansen Capital Advisors predicts a slightly more rosy picture pointing to an estimated $4.5 billion in revenue for calendar year 2002, saying 2005 revenue could exceed $10 billion. InformaMedia Group, which tracks electronic gambling, predicts that online gaming revenue will even reach $14.5 billion by 2006.
The Company
Worldwide Management provides gaming software to over a dozen gaming websites. AngelCiti's current websites include AngelCitiCasino.com, VacationCasino.com, StarbrightCasino.com, WelcomeToOurCasino.com, QuePasaCasino.com, UrlaubCasino.com LuckyDogCasino.com and many others.
AngelCiti to Add on Two New Gaming Sites
Monday June 16, 7:59 am ET
PEMBROKE PINES, Fla., June 16 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- AngelCiti Entertainment's (OTC Bulletin Board: AGLC - News) wholly owned subsidiary Worldwide Management announced that it entered into an agreement to provide software to RedDevilCasino.com and SharkCasino.com and will additionally provide affiliate support to help drive traffic and customers to those sites. It is anticipated that these sites will be integrated and fully operational within the next 30 days.
"We continue to seek out and bring on additional gaming sites to expand the Company's reach and increase profitability," remarked AngelCiti president George Gutierrez. "We are proud to provide services to these two new gaming sites and anticipate bringing on additional sites in the near future, with a particular emphasis on the Asian markets, which are currently experiencing explosive growth in both high-speed internet penetration and online gaming."
The Industry
A Bear Stearns report for the industry pegs annual revenue at $4.2 billion for 2003, while Christiansen Capital Advisors predicts a slightly more rosy picture pointing to an estimated $4.5 billion in revenue for calendar year 2002, saying 2005 revenue could exceed $10 billion. InformaMedia Group, which tracks electronic gambling, predicts that online gaming revenue will even reach $14.5 billion by 2006.
The Company
Worldwide Management provides gaming software to over a dozen gaming websites. AngelCiti's current websites include AngelCitiCasino.com, VacationCasino.com, StarbrightCasino.com, WelcomeToOurCasino.com, QuePasaCasino.com, UrlaubCasino.com LuckyDogCasino.com and many others.
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2002
Is it just me, or are those two new casinos very aptly named?
