Rogue Announcement Affpower Casinos - ripped off NetEnt Games

[Cassaon-casino]

S**t like this winds me up! It is bad enough to lose when you are playing a fair game, but losing and then get to know you never had a chance in the first place...

I wish you the best of luck and I really hope you get your money back.

The sad part is Affpower has been in operation for many years now and nothing seems to happen to them. Aside from the blacklisting here at CM and other reputable sites they just keep on doing what they do best: shafting players.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The sad part is Affpower has been in operation for many years now and nothing seems to happen to them. Aside from the blacklisting here at CM and other reputable sites they just keep on doing what they do best: shafting players.

They get away with this because Curacao, their regulator, is prepared to look the other way.

It seems that them removing the games is good enough for Curacao, and maybe it needs NetEnt to step up and say it's not good enough, and to pursue Curacao and Affpower for damages. Arguably, NetEnt have a case for defamation due to the fault ridden nature of the pirate games, and the fact that the casino repeatedly blamed NetEnt for all the crashes, lost balances, gaffed feature rounds, etc - even going so far as to create a fantasy story of them having engaged directly with NetEnt to investigate and resolve the problems, which they told to players. This could create the impression that NetEnt games are prone to such problems.

It's a shame the NetEnt delivery system doesn't allow them to pull the plug from their end. If it did, they could blacklist Curacao, and say that NetEnt games would no longer be available to casinos who operate under the Curacao license. Of course, other game providers could decide to take a similar step on the grounds that Curacao will not protect their Intellectual property rights by acting against licensees who violate them.

Such a measure might cause the Curacao authorities to take this kind of issue more seriously, else they will lose licensees and income to another jurisdiction.

 

[Biti]

Curacao is a joke gaming authority. They do not even have a working Gambling Commission. Just some master license holders that are just there to earn money, not to do Gamling Commission-work. They will not do anything. Their business model is collecting money from dodgy gambling websites. The day they will take things a bit more serious, they will lose income.

I guess also the gambling world itself should take more action against scumbags that are putting the industry in a dark light. Why gaming providers do deliver them games? Why Income Access is still working with them? Why are they allowed at conferences?

 

[dicky wink]

It seems there is current trend to pirate and rip off these games ....
I notice this week on ebay in the UK there are sellers touting Land based casino terminals with what apears to run pirate Novomatic slots and other games on them
These are being sold rented to anyone even without a land casino licence



the Ebay Ad for ..... "Fruit Machine - MultiGame touch screen casino slot machine"

Over 40 High Def Casino games. Crystal clear graphics and sounds. Popular games including video slots, video pokers, roulette, blackjack, baccarat, keno
Progressive Mystery Bonuses, that can be linked on multiple machines and adjust the pay levels
Touch screen (We have unlimited stock with different cabinets/sizes)
Accepts all notes and coins - default is in £ (British pounds) can be programmed to Euros
Internet connection required to operate Maintenance charge £50.00 per month
*** NOTE! The listing price is the 1st month maintenance fee! The machine is provided for free and has to be returned when you no longer wish to use it.
it cant be legit if you can adjust the pay levels
The Gaming companies need to step up ( although im sure they are doing that behind the scenes ) these people cant be allowed to rip the punters off

all the best .... Dicky

 

[dunover]

It seems there is current trend to pirate and rip off these games ....
I notice this week on ebay in the UK there are sellers touting Land based casino terminals with what apears to run pirate Novomatic slots and other games on them
These are being sold rented to anyone even without a land casino licence


the Ebay Ad for ..... "Fruit Machine - MultiGame touch screen casino slot machine"

Over 40 High Def Casino games. Crystal clear graphics and sounds. Popular games including video slots, video pokers, roulette, blackjack, baccarat, keno
Progressive Mystery Bonuses, that can be linked on multiple machines and
Touch screen (We have unlimited stock with different cabinets/sizes)
Accepts all notes and coins - default is in £ (British pounds) can be programmed to Euros
Internet connection required to operate Maintenance charge £50.00 per month
*** NOTE! The listing price is the 1st month maintenance fee! The machine is provided for free and has to be returned when you no longer wish to use it.
it cant be legit if you can adjust the pay levels
The Gaming companies need to step up ( although im sure they are doing that behind the scenes ) these people cant be allowed to rip the punters off

all the best .... Dicky

Probably OK. There's little money to be made by making a cabinet with dodgy games, i.e 600 quid a year. If they're bent they're better-off going to Israel to become real online criminals.
The cabinet manufacturer would already be paying a licensing fee to Novo anyway which would be less than an online one.

The RTP math models CAN be legitimately changed!! If you see say Cleopatra in UK casinos they don't pay 2x stake for 2 scatters, reducing RTP to 92%. Novo are no different. They offer a choice of math models.

 

[vinylweatherman]

It seems there is current trend to pirate and rip off these games ....
I notice this week on ebay in the UK there are sellers touting Land based casino terminals with what apears to run pirate Novomatic slots and other games on them
These are being sold rented to anyone even without a land casino licence

View attachment 67984

the Ebay Ad for ..... "Fruit Machine - MultiGame touch screen casino slot machine"

Over 40 High Def Casino games. Crystal clear graphics and sounds. Popular games including video slots, video pokers, roulette, blackjack, baccarat, keno
Progressive Mystery Bonuses, that can be linked on multiple machines and adjust the pay levels
Touch screen (We have unlimited stock with different cabinets/sizes)
Accepts all notes and coins - default is in £ (British pounds) can be programmed to Euros
Internet connection required to operate Maintenance charge £50.00 per month
*** NOTE! The listing price is the 1st month maintenance fee! The machine is provided for free and has to be returned when you no longer wish to use it.
it cant be legit if you can adjust the pay levels
The Gaming companies need to step up ( although im sure they are doing that behind the scenes ) these people cant be allowed to rip the punters off

all the best .... Dicky

Bit of a grey area. It's the responsibility of the buyer to make sure they are complying with the law if they make the game available to the public, and this looks like this is intended to be hired in somewhere like a pub. However, the landlord of the pub will still require a license from the UKGC for a "fruit machine", and the maximum jackpot would be £500, but they will probably find no one will want to play it.

Payouts can be legally set by the operator, a throwback to the old era of fruit machines, which were compensated games which guaranteed a set return to the operator (unless an emptier existed). If anything, the situation is even worse now, the old 70% RTP floor no longer exists, but machines now have to display the actual RTP to the player, which tends to discourage reputable operators from being too tight. £500 jackpot videoslot terminals tend to be set at between 88% and 92%, much better than the 70% to 78% range on fruit machines.

eBay used to have a policy prohibiting the sale of gambling devices that had not been set to "free play", but could be sited and used for profit by the buyer. It seems they have relaxed this policy in the pursuit of listing fees, as this is clearly a machine designed to be sited and made available to the general public, not used as a household toy for grownups.

 

[dicky wink]

Hi Guys and thanks for the replies ...
yes you are very much correct ... but these games come with Novo ... roulette poker and other games .... im fairly certain that Novo only licence their own terminals to be used in casino operations .... and would not include other games providers on there

The Ambassador terminal i think is of Ainsworth manufacture as well

Also the Mystery jackpot of 800+ puts it outside the Cat C (100) and B3 (£500) games .... this is more in the realm of Cat B1 which is very tightly controlled and for use only in Regional casinos

the fact that it needs an internet connection is a bit suss also Novomatic would charge a lot more than £50 a month for use of their terminals ....

It looks very Dodgy .... but hey thats the dodgy world we live in

all the best ... Dicky

 

[spintee]

Ebay still has a rule that if you havnt got a licence than you cannot sell it with the coin mech, Simple way around that one,

I sold a few in the past,

I do not know if its been mentioned with theses dodgy sites, Has any one ever thought if there doing that with games than what are they doing with our info?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Ebay still has a rule that if you havnt got a licence than you cannot sell it with the coin mech, Simple way around that one,

I sold a few in the past,

I do not know if its been mentioned with theses dodgy sites, Has any one ever thought if there doing that with games than what are they doing with our info?

Ineffective rule, you just sell the coin mech separately. Under current UKGC rules, you also need a permit to sell such machines, although it's OK for just one party, seller or buyer, to have the relevant permit, so home users can sell a machine to a distributer, or can buy one this way. Strictly, you can't sell to each other, but I doubt there is much enforcement of this where it's clear that the machines are for home use as adult toys.

Of course, with eBay you can never be sure what you are getting. It may be that the games provider will not supply the monthly service without first seeing the buyers permit and licence to operate, or even that this line is purely intended to make the terminal appear legit. Home users will not know the usual monthly fee, but I doubt a home user would bother to buy a £50 per month update service either, they would be happy with their toy as it is, even if the games are outdated.

 

[Tirilej]

I thought a link to this new thread is a good idea so Madame Chance can be listed in the first post and rogued too.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/madamechance.73845/?t=73845

 

[lomakin]

So what happened then! I don`t find this information in Internet in this time.

 

[Keith Addy]

a mixed bag of a update for you regarding my claim against atlantic casino club and my credit card provider.
But again i need help from you guys again.

2 talking points for today.

Affpowers atlantic casino club and euromoon have netent games? well no
First off

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

are advertising Netent games again until you log in they are not available.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

to view.
I wonder what are they up to.

second talking point
my claim has been refused by my credit card supplier and now is in the hands of the Ombudsman.
hes basically telling me i can only get a case of misrepresentation if they have in atlantic casino terms and conditions broken the contract.
which allows them basically to get away with pirated games and not abiding to UK gambling commission.
trying hard to look through these terms and conditions for anything but struggling.
So its not looking good.

any help would be grateful.

 

[MiltonW]

Affpowers atlantic casino club and euromoon have netent games? well no
First off

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

are advertising Netent games again until you log in they are not available..

I still get NetEnt. Using 'sts-static.casinomodule.com'. Which I guess is not a NetEnt server.

I would suggest getting a Dutch lawyer. Curacao is still 'Dutch'. They're getting a lot of aid from the Netherlands...

 

[Tirilej]

Netent games are back at the casino, and they claim they always came directly from Netent.
They just had an update

Maybe you should update Netent too then Bryan.

 

[vinylweatherman]

a mixed bag of a update for you regarding my claim against atlantic casino club and my credit card provider.
But again i need help from you guys again.

2 talking points for today.

Affpowers atlantic casino club and euromoon have netent games? well no
First off

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

are advertising Netent games again until you log in they are not available.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

to view.
I wonder what are they up to.

second talking point
my claim has been refused by my credit card supplier and now is in the hands of the Ombudsman.
hes basically telling me i can only get a case of misrepresentation if they have in atlantic casino terms and conditions broken the contract.
which allows them basically to get away with pirated games and not abiding to UK gambling commission.
trying hard to look through these terms and conditions for anything but struggling.
So its not looking good.

any help would be grateful.

That's not strictly true. Misrepresentation would also apply to the supply of counterfeit goods and services where they are presented as being the genuine article. What you would need to look for is anything that is telling the customer that these games are genuine NetEnt games. It is also misrepresentation if they have ever displayed a fake UKGC license on their site when they don't have one.

If the Ombudsman rules in favour of the card company, you would either have to drop the issue or take the matter to court. This is probably something the Ombudsman has no real experience of because it's not something that happens too often in the industry. It might be akin to trying to get a refund because the hash you bought on your card over the internet turns out to be lawn clippings, and you are arguing misrepresentation.

However, if the NetEnt games are back, it could be a chance to catch them red handed misrepresenting them as genuine and gather evidence from their website that can back up your case. The card company may not want to lose this case because it has the potential to "open floodgates" because they are not going to find it easy to pull the money back from the operator now that they know they have been busted and some authorities are after them. If the Ombudsman allows a loose definition of misrepresentation to stand, it could mean that almost any money lost at a casino via a card deposit could be reclaimed by citing misrepresentation. Both the banks and the Ombudsman would want to avoid such an abuse of the system.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Busted.

They work in free play, and are clearly portrayed as being the genuine article, not copies, their own similar games, etc.

Looks like they have given the middle finger to NetEnt.

Having pirate games available for free play is no less infringing than offering them for real money play.

 

[Keith Addy]

That's not strictly true. Misrepresentation would also apply to the supply of counterfeit goods and services where they are presented as being the genuine article. What you would need to look for is anything that is telling the customer that these games are genuine NetEnt games. It is also misrepresentation if they have ever displayed a fake UKGC license on their site when they don't have one.

If the Ombudsman rules in favour of the card company, you would either have to drop the issue or take the matter to court. This is probably something the Ombudsman has no real experience of because it's not something that happens too often in the industry. It might be akin to trying to get a refund because the hash you bought on your card over the internet turns out to be lawn clippings, and you are arguing misrepresentation.

However, if the NetEnt games are back, it could be a chance to catch them red handed misrepresenting them as genuine and gather evidence from their website that can back up your case. The card company may not want to lose this case because it has the potential to "open floodgates" because they are not going to find it easy to pull the money back from the operator now that they know they have been busted and some authorities are after them. If the Ombudsman allows a loose definition of misrepresentation to stand, it could mean that almost any money lost at a casino via a card deposit could be reclaimed by citing misrepresentation. Both the banks and the Ombudsman would want to avoid such an abuse of the system.

Actually i had a discussion around the fake games but he seemed to think that we could not prove it.
He did change his tune however when said i had a screenshot netent and green bar loading up with an advisor chatting to me screenshot which he now has a copy off.
I also sent off screenie of the fake NETent Domain module.I think that's going to be based on that alone.

You're absolutely right about the Uk Gambling commission if they had a logo, which i think they did just checking loads of backed up internet caches.
I wish i could hit them with their terms and conditions, even if they broke the law i find it strange that the law that that is in place is there to protect banking institutions in the first place.

Another thing Netent why are they not releasing information about this.
I tried to call them several times they are useless if anyone has a contact i would appreciate it they could pass on/refer it to me.
I am really struggling still. Weatherman your great help please if you get anymore ideas please pass on.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Actually i had a discussion around the fake games but he seemed to think that we could not prove it.
He did change his tune however when said i had a screenshot netent and green bar loading up with an advisor chatting to me screenshot which he now has a copy off.
I also sent off screenie of the fake NETent Domain module.I think that's going to be based on that alone.

You're absolutely right about the Uk Gambling commission if they had a logo, which i think they did just checking loads of backed up internet caches.
I wish i could hit them with their terms and conditions, even if they broke the law i find it strange that the law that that is in place is there to protect banking institutions in the first place.

Another thing Netent why are they not releasing information about this.
I tried to call them several times they are useless if anyone has a contact i would appreciate it they could pass on/refer it to me.
I am really struggling still. Weatherman your great help please if you get anymore ideas please pass on.

The problem is that NetEnt are not prepared to offer a statement in support of any claim that these games are fake. This is odd, because surely they want to stamp this out, and one approach would be to hit them so hard in the pocket that they are too frightened to host fake NetEnt games ever again. In most counterfeit cases, the owner of the brand needs to submit a statement that they have examined the goods and that they are fake. Without this, many sellers of fake goods can avoid conviction, and get their stock returned because if they are good enough fakes, it's not possible to prove they are not genuine without the cooperation of the rights holder.

The game I just looked at does not look fake in the slightest. As far as I can see, there is nothing to show it is obviously a fake. In fact, it probably isn't a fake in the usual sense, it's more likely to be the genuine article, but used without permission of the rights holder. It would be similar to an MP3 of Madonna's latest hit bought from an offshore site that does not hold the license to distribute the track. The track itself though, is genuine. These casinos are using NetEnt games from a supplier that is providing them without the permission of NetEnt.

If the Ombudsman side with the bank, they are more or less saying that the casino is within it's rights to supply these NetEnt games to players, and apply terms and conditions based on this supply, which are legally enforceable.

If these are genuine but pirated copies, you probably did get a fair game out of them, but NetEnt didn't get any royalties from your play, so they are the ones who lost out.

These are the best fakes I have ever seen, not like the bleedin' obvious Microgaming ones I once spotted at Jackpots Heaven. It seems NetEnt games are easy to pirate, whereas with Microgaming the fakers have to copy and paste individual symbols, and then try to replicate unknown reel strips and game engines, which makes them much easier to spot.

 

[Keith Addy]

looking at sts-static.casinomodule.com it also looks legit that Netent are the provider. Pretty bold but disrespectful behaviour.

 

[Keith Addy]

hmm a bit of a development today i got a response from gametech support to affpower. though pretty much garbage i am sure teh comment about netent games will make you laugh.

Hello Melissa,


We are submitting this letter in reply to Keith Addy, who has lodged several complaints against our casino. He claims that he is being wrongfully denied his winnings, and that he has been dealt with deceptively. His claims involve two separate issues. The first is an alleged game malfunction, and the second is a dispute over the status of some bonus winnings.

The technical malfunction which Mr. Addy alleges took place, could only have happened between the hours of 23:34 and 00:38 on 3-4.4.16. Our records do not record any activity during that time. Mr. Addy resumed playing at 00:38 with the same balance that he had at the end of his previous session, EU 1277.59. Our records also show that 00:20, (which is a few minutes prior to his resuming his play) Mr. Addy contacted the Chat Support Team and reported that his game (Jack Hammer) had malfunctioned and that he had been automatically logged out. He claims that at the time he lost 3000 Euro due to the malfunction. After he logged back in Mr. Addy continued to play on with his remaining balance on other games.

Mr. Addy also insinuates that the Casino deliberately locked him out in order to deprive him of his winnings. He connects this to some rumors that we had “illegal versions of Netent games.” All our providers are genuine and authorized. A letter attesting to this has been provided to the Gaming Commission.
His second complaint involves a complementary bonus package that was given to him in order to “console” him for his alleged loss of the 3000 Euro. He is attempting to claim 11,000 Euro from one of the free bonuses given him in that special package.

Let us address his first complaint.
1) As far as our records shows, Mr. Addy appears to have taken a break from playing on 2-3.4. His balance when he returned to play was exactly the same as it was when he began the break. There are no records of wins or losses during the break period. The terms and conditions (Sec 18 Para 4) are clear that the records maintained by the casino are the only firm basis for making claims and requesting withdrawals.

2) The terms and conditions also state that the Casino is in no way responsible for losses caused by technical malfunctions. (See Section 26 para 3 and Sec 27 para 2 sub para I, IX and XIII) Technical malfunctions do not count, be it in business, banking, human relationships or gaming.

3) There was a malfunction, it took place during the aforementioned hour during which our system recorded no activity. This means that not only did the malfunction take away Mr. Addy’s winnings, it gave them in the first place. Such winnings are as invalid. This is explicitly stated in the Terms and Conditions (in the aforementioned sub Para IX.) By analogy, if a bank mistakenly deposits money in a person’s account, not only is the bank authorized to take it back, the account holder is expected to inform the bank of the error!

4) As regards his insinuation that the disappearance of his unaccounted for winnings is the result of illegal versions of the games, we respond that all programs can and often do malfunction. This is why such eventualities are addressed in the Terms and Conditions. If there was a malfunction there was no malice or wrongdoing in it.

5) Mr. Addy wrote in an e-mail to us that at the time he was locked out of the game due to the malfunction “I was sitting at 3000 euros winnings so far.” His meaning is unclear, but it seems to imply that he had 3000 Euro in his balance. If so, since his balance as far as we know, remained constant at 1277.59, the most that he could claim is that the malfunction deprived him of EU 1723.41 of ill-gotten winnings.

Now Let us examine his second complaint.
1) Mr. Addy was frustrated about his supposed ‘loss” of 3000 euro. The Casino staff consistently replied that what happened to him was the result of “a bug” and hence of no consequence. His account manager Lucy attempted to placate him.

2) He was given a complementary offer of 10 free bonuses of 300 euro each. The maximum win on each bonus was explicitly stated and repeated to be 100 Euro. All of this is on the chat record. The bonus package was in no way meant to compensate Mr. Addy, as we do not owe him anything
.
3) One might wonder what the point is of giving 300 Euro Bonus when the maximum win is only 100 Euro. The intent is to give Mr. Addy a significantly better chance of clearing the wager requirement. However, in the end, the highest amount he could possibly have won with this package is 1000 Euro. All this is explicitly recorded in the chat transcript.

Summary:

Our casino owes Mr. Addy nothing for the malfunction. Mr. Addy’s unfounded belief that he is owed 3000 Euro continues to cloud his ability to understand that the bonus package offered him by his account manager was in no way a compensation for that alleged loss. Rather it was a complementary program with a maximum win potential of 1000.

Sincerely,
Compliance team.

 

[The Dude]

...Mr. Addy also insinuates that the Casino deliberately locked him out in order to deprive him of his winnings. He connects this to some rumors that we had “illegal versions of Netent games.” All our providers are genuine and authorized. A letter attesting to this has been provided to the Gaming Commission...

Rumors? What Gaming Commission? Who wrote this email?

 

[spintee]

Hes mate wrote it, He obvious told him what to say

 

[The Dude]

Euromooncasinos may look legit, but if you right click the game, you can look at the source code. The game is being served from grandx.pro which is registered to some dude in Uzbekistan

Xhttps://grandx.pro/api/remote.html?accessPassword=5FC5AB1EB5A07095DCADB4FEE08260B2&operatorId=33050&username=5120810&sessionId=9450076e-6b35-43f9-913e-92e1e1c75b68&gameId=3343&language=en&language=en

What a load of unethical scumbags. Why can't they just run a casino without ripping people off?

 

[FeC]

Euromooncasinos may look legit, but if you right click the game, you can look at the source code. The game is being served from grandx.pro which is registered to some dude in Uzbekistan

Xhttps://grandx.pro/api/remote.html?accessPassword=5FC5AB1EB5A07095DCADB4FEE08260B2&operatorId=33050&username=5120810&sessionId=9450076e-6b35-43f9-913e-92e1e1c75b68&gameId=3343&language=en&language=en

What a load of unethical scumbags. Why can't they just run a casino without ripping people off?

The same dude is the registrar of 24techpro.com (a well known domain lol) and techpowerpro.com (looks like this is still in "queue" list)

 

[Keith Addy]

Rumors? What Gaming Commission? Who wrote this email?

This was a email from gametech compliance officer game tech group Melissa brown. Regarding my complaint to Curacao-egaming. They fully evaded the issue in recent emails. They are also advertising netent games again on the same day I got a response which makes me belive they have bought legit license and are attempting a cover up. I replied also quoting casiomeister in my evidence about the piracy were they more called it rumours only. I have sent then snotty reply and now on vacation.

 

[Zodiac]

Just a notice: Deuce Club and Cosmik Casino will close his doors on 28th of June and i believe the other brands, where they redirect, will follow in the future, it's only a question of time.

 

[FeC]

I'm trying to push a guy (probably an affpower shill) from AGD to come here to talk with Bryan. He is extremely evasive
He told that who claimed a contact with NetEnt is a liar

Personally, I think he is tasting the ground...

 

[The Dude]

I'm trying to push a guy (probably an affpower shill) from AGD to come here to talk with Bryan. He is extremely evasive
He told that who claimed a contact with NetEnt is a liar

Personally, I think he is tasting the ground...

I've already asked affpower to make a statement, but they have ignored me. They are always welcome to post here.

I would actually prefer for them to post here and give me their side of the story as to why they have their own servers loading these games and not NetEnt's. I am sure everyone would like to hear their story.

 

[ThePOGG]

I had reason to contact a few people at NetEnt regarding verification of games at another group and asked about this issue at the same time (the other group are clean and as such I won't be naming them).

I can confirm directly from NetEnt that the games that the GameTech group were running were NOT genuine. However, NetEnt have been in contact with GameTech who removed the games immediately, assured NetEnt that they believed the games they were running to be genuine, and are now in the process of implementing genuine NetEnt games.

Any claims that GameTech never ran counterfeit games are inaccurate.

TP

 

[The Dude]

I can confirm directly from NetEnt that the games that the GameTech group were running were NOT genuine. However, NetEnt have been in contact with GameTech who removed the games immediately, assured NetEnt that they believed the games they were running to be genuine, and are now in the process of implementing genuine NetEnt games.

That is such bullshit. They knew what they were doing. They were running their own servers - the Internet does not lie when it comes to this. The evidence is in the screenshots that show which domains were being used.

Any claims that GameTech never ran counterfeit games are inaccurate.

In other words, they ran counterfeit games, they profited from these games and LIED about having legit ones. They should never ever be trusted again, and should be held accountable for the loses of the gamblers that they defrauded.

If they actually want us to believe their rendition of this story, they would be contacting all of the players who played these games and offer a refund.

 

[ThePOGG]

That is such bullshit. They knew what they were doing. They were running their own servers - the Internet does not lie when it comes to this. The evidence is in the screenshots that show which domains were being used.

I completely agree. I've had several operators who have been running counterfeit games make this claim and I believe NONE of them. I've even had US facing operators make this claim when they've been running counterfeit Playtech/Microgaming games - do they honestly expect me to believe that they really thought that these huge companies would make their clip joint operation their first re-entry point to the US market? That's right Playtech just decided to give them a huge competitive advantage because they come over as such nice people.

In my opinion there's little doubt that GameTech knew. However, even if they didn't, they've gone on to deny that they ever ran counterfeit games - that's a direct lie. So now we're talking about fundamental dishonesty to top everything else off. It's a nice cherry on the top.

 

[The Dude]

I completely agree. I've had several operators who have been running counterfeit games make this claim and I believe NONE of them. I've even had US facing operators make this claim when they've been running counterfeit Playtech/Microgaming games - do they honestly expect me to believe that they really thought that these huge companies would make their clip joint operation their first re-entry point to the US market? That's right Playtech just decided to give them a huge competitive advantage because they come over as such nice people.

In my opinion there's little doubt that GameTech knew. However, even if they didn't, they've gone on to deny that they ever ran counterfeit games - that's a direct lie. So now we're talking about fundamental dishonesty to top everything else off. It's a nice cherry on the top.

If they have admitted that the games were indeed counterfeit, then appropriations should be made to the players and they need to issue a public statement. Also, their licensing jurisdiction needs to ensure that a complete audit is conducted - fair and square.

This would happen with an upstanding properly regulated casino. Will this happen here? No - absolutely not.

It's pathetic - and totally scandalous. And another milestone of what is wrong with this industry. You will never stop the criminality no matter what.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I had reason to contact a few people at NetEnt regarding verification of games at another group and asked about this issue at the same time (the other group are clean and as such I won't be naming them).

I can confirm directly from NetEnt that the games that the GameTech group were running were NOT genuine. However, NetEnt have been in contact with GameTech who removed the games immediately, assured NetEnt that they believed the games they were running to be genuine, and are now in the process of implementing genuine NetEnt games.

Any claims that GameTech never ran counterfeit games are inaccurate.

TP

Shame on NetEnt, should have blacklisted them instead.

If they DO get genuine NetEnt games, this will be what enables them to succeed in covering up this incident because they will be able to trot out proof of their "current" agreement with NetEnt and say it proves the games were genuine all along. Coupled with the refusal of NetEnt to go public with the former pirate games in a way which aggrieved players could use to seek redress from their end via their banks, not only will the cover up succeed, but they won't even face a serious risk of punishment in the form of action being taken by players who were duped into playing the fake games.

 

[ThePOGG]

Shame on NetEnt, should have blacklisted them instead.

If they DO get genuine NetEnt games, this will be what enables them to succeed in covering up this incident because they will be able to trot out proof of their "current" agreement with NetEnt and say it proves the games were genuine all along. Coupled with the refusal of NetEnt to go public with the former pirate games in a way which aggrieved players could use to seek redress from their end via their banks, not only will the cover up succeed, but they won't even face a serious risk of punishment in the form of action being taken by players who were duped into playing the fake games.

If it wasn't for a written statement I have from NE saying the original versions of the games were counterfeit. They made no bones about that and no request for any degree of privacy on the discussion. Essentially I don't think NE are looking to help hide anything. Their primary concern is shutting down these counterfeits, which they're having a hard time doing as it's a game of whack-a-mole, and if they can get a new customer out of it all the better. They can't prove that GameTech knew the games were counterfeit so they're not going to say that, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't have their suspicions.

If GameTech are found to claim that they never ran counterfeit games in any public fashion, all that needs to happen is for someone to contact me and I'll release the email confirming that to be not true.

TP

 

[FeC]

So, the NetEnt's "sts" subdomain (concession) presumably belongs to GTG?

This -> sts-static.casinomodule.com

Maybe and maybe I'm wrong right now but the source code where NetEnt games are embedded looks suspicious to me (my opinion) and completely different where BetSoft (legit) ones are embedded.
Why use a "strange" domain registered with a "yandex" mail address (grandx.pro) to load games through iframes?

Plus... all progressive slots are missing. Why? Progressive jackpots were one of the first suspicious things in the first set of pirated games...

Waiting for a NetEnt reply... I remain with my doubts.

 

[vinylweatherman]

If it wasn't for a written statement I have from NE saying the original versions of the games were counterfeit. They made no bones about that and no request for any degree of privacy on the discussion. Essentially I don't think NE are looking to help hide anything. Their primary concern is shutting down these counterfeits, which they're having a hard time doing as it's a game of whack-a-mole, and if they can get a new customer out of it all the better. They can't prove that GameTech knew the games were counterfeit so they're not going to say that, but I'd be very surprised if they didn't have their suspicions.

If GameTech are found to claim that they never ran counterfeit games in any public fashion, all that needs to happen is for someone to contact me and I'll release the email confirming that to be not true.

TP

There is a UK player trying to get their money back via their bank who has taken it all the way to the ombudsman, however it has stalled because he cannot demonstrate that the games he played were not the genuine article, and he can't get any help from NetEnt. It seems that the banks and the ombudsman may think that this is just another player who lost fair and square on legit games trying to pull a fast one on the casino. He was only taking this route because of the revelation here about the games, and it seemed one way to punish the casino because Curacao don't seem interested in taking any action over this, and if this operator gets hurt over the issue, it might deter some of the others who are ripping off casino games.

This is apart from the fact that this casino was offering games to UK players without a licence.

 

[ThePOGG]

There is a UK player trying to get their money back via their bank who has taken it all the way to the ombudsman, however it has stalled because he cannot demonstrate that the games he played were not the genuine article, and he can't get any help from NetEnt. It seems that the banks and the ombudsman may think that this is just another player who lost fair and square on legit games trying to pull a fast one on the casino. He was only taking this route because of the revelation here about the games, and it seemed one way to punish the casino because Curacao don't seem interested in taking any action over this, and if this operator gets hurt over the issue, it might deter some of the others who are ripping off casino games.

If you have a way to contact the player ask them to contact me at [email protected] and I'll do what I can to assist them.

This is apart from the fact that this casino was offering games to UK players without a licence.

I reported this to the UKGC at the beginning of May on the back of an unrelated complaint from a UK player

 

[dunover]

If you have a way to contact the player ask them to contact me at [email protected] and I'll do what I can to assist them.



I reported this to the UKGC at the beginning of May on the back of an unrelated complaint from a UK player

Indeed. This is one of those areas which requires a 'professional witness' and statement. Similar to people who legitimately emptied AWP's and were arrested and sometimes even charged because Police or the CPS simply had no evidence that this was normal or legal and their stash of pound coins was considered 'incriminating evidence' along with the accusation from a pub landlord who knew as much about AWP's as I do about Chinese art.

This meant the falsely accused would need professional testimony from player(s) who could substantiate the coins were gained legitimately.

Similarly, the banks/card companies will definitely need a knowledgeable and credible witness to substantiate the section75 claim. This should be fairly easy evidence to obtain and present BUT with potential for hundreds more similar claims and a threat to their significant gambling-based income, rest assured the banks/card companies will not make it easy as a whole Pandora's box could be opened for them.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Indeed. This is one of those areas which requires a 'professional witness' and statement. Similar to people who legitimately emptied AWP's and were arrested and sometimes even charged because Police or the CPS simply had no evidence that this was normal or legal and their stash of pound coins was considered 'incriminating evidence' along with the accusation from a pub landlord who knew as much about AWP's as I do about Chinese art.

This meant the falsely accused would need professional testimony from player(s) who could substantiate the coins were gained legitimately.

Similarly, the banks/card companies will definitely need a knowledgeable and credible witness to substantiate the section75 claim. This should be fairly easy evidence to obtain and present BUT with potential for hundreds more similar claims and a threat to their significant gambling-based income, rest assured the banks/card companies will not make it easy as a whole Pandora's box could be opened for them.

Surely for a criminal prosecution they would need to PROVE that the machine had been tampered with, rather than mere circumstantial evidence of the player having all the £1 coins and the machine being empty. After all, it should be possible to win from these machines, so surely a claim that a player could not possibly have won a given amount fairly would be a PR disaster for the business as it would mean the machine operators having to prove to the court that their machines were "rigged" to make large wins impossible. I do remember that people were being brought in by the police because someone had reported a crime, and the player was found to have a large quantity of £1 coins. I don't remember hearing of any cases that went to court without actual evidence of tampering, such as holes having been drilled into the machine, or the player caught with odd things like long screwdrivers for poking through the payout trays and tampering with the innards. I even saw some blatant tampering at a services by a group of 3 people at 2am, the machine kept on going off and on, and they kept on winning. They were left to it by services staff and security, and I left them to it as well.

Had I been called to give evidence, I could have emptied a Pay Rise in front of the judge, would have taken a couple of hours, but that's quick by court standards My policy was always to play the machine with the buttons provided on the cabinet by the manufacturer, no refill keys or anything else that might cause the police to detain me if they decided to search me for "devices". I did notice that some motorway services had a "no refill keys" policy in their terms and conditions for play, but the claim that it was "illegal" was bogus - a screwdriver would be illegal if it was used to defraud a machine, but it's not illegal just to have one.

As for the current case, it seems NetEnt are happy to provide legitimate games to this operator, so probably would not want to assist with their further punishment that might risk putting them out of business.

Now, could a UK player also use the fact that they were illegally taking bets from UK players for a claim against the card company, this IS something that can be proven from the public records of the UKGC, freely available on their website.

 

[The Dude]

I can also confirm from Netent that this rogue casino is now hosting legitimate games. Since the Casino has admitted and has been proven to have had pirated games, they need to be fully audited by their licensor (lol)and all game play needs to be refunded to players.

Anything less is criminal fraud. Plain and simple.

 

[dunover]

I can also confirm from Netent that this rogue casino is now hosting legitimate games. Since the Casino has admitted and has been proven to have had pirated games, they need to be fully audited by their licensor (lol)and all game play needs to be refunded to players.
Anything less is criminal fraud. Plain and simple.

Don't hold your breath. Already funding a new Dead Sea villa as we speak....

 

[FeC]

I can also confirm from Netent that this rogue casino is now hosting legitimate games. Since the Casino has admitted and has been proven to have had pirated games, they need to be fully audited by their licensor (lol)and all game play needs to be refunded to players.

Anything less is criminal fraud. Plain and simple.

Got the same today... just noticed it in my mail (lol).
BTW, blacklisted they were blacklisted they will remain. Still waiting for a reply about their constant presence on hacked websites. Waiting since late 2013
Plus... a huuuuuge list of players' complaints

 

[Keith Addy]

Sorry not be on here for a while been on vacation

If you recall my story i played on Atlantic club casino during Hackgate (yes my new name for it)
During my time some 12 weeks, i had some misfortunes.
My game of jack hammer whilst in a feature session totaling 3,000 winnings with 177 spins left mysteriously crashed or forced off by the operator.
which went on to a compensation package consisting of 10 x300 to make up the bad experience i had.
Which led to more calamity. I then found out that i was playing fake games by reading Casiomeister forum by chance.

Since then I complained to Governing body of Curacao, My credit card and direct debit visa suppliers this has then went on to the ombudsman.

I last left you with a reply i got from Game-tech compliance team basically trying hard to cover up the use of counterfeit games and dismiss my claims.
I then had some awesome Help From Pogg editor (thanks again to this forum and excellent communications)
providing help and most importantly proof that they cheated.I passed this information on .
The reply was

Dear blank

You may rest assured that I carefully read your responses to Atlantic Casino’s claims. Ultimately, the facts in this matter are clear. You did not actually win EU 3000 nor did the casino take it away. You were effected by a malfunction that was beyond the Casino’s control, and any winnings resulting from that malfunction are invalid. Before and after the malfunction, you had the same balance in your account. In addition, the Casino staff presented the 300x10 bonus package properly, so that you knew or should have known that its total possible withdrawal value could not be more than 1000 Euro. This was explained in your chat before you accepted the bonus program. Like any bonus, the ones you received are governed by the Bonus Terms and Conditions.

As for the matter of the games' authenticity, all the relevant documentation has been turned over. The casino has always acted in good faith and that it continues to serve gamers with the complete cooperation and authorization of Netent.

We consider this matter closed.


Compliance Officer
Game Tech Group N.V -
Reg. nr. 135144
Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg Z/N
UTS
Gebouw
Curacao

This is the funny thing about this the governing body of Curacao have never once responded or acknowledged the emails allowing these thief's to get away Scot free.
Even after a real damming reply from the Pogg editor to them they still have not replied.
Probably a lost cause now i think its real poor of the governing body not mediate the matter .
Anyone got any idea on how to light a firework underneath there asses. Maybe invite several Casino journalists to witness the email thread might be a idea.

on another note still having problems with my visa direct debit complaint regarding refunding my money back from these thief's.
They say thee is not a section that covers this therefore they cannot charge back.Maybe i should just lie and say they took my money without my knowledge but i would be as bad as them.

again any help would be appreciated.

 

[dunover]

Sorry not be on here for a while been on vacation

If you recall my story i played on Atlantic club casino during Hackgate (yes my new name for it)
During my time some 12 weeks, i had some misfortunes.
My game of jack hammer whilst in a feature session totaling 3,000 winnings with 177 spins left mysteriously crashed or forced off by the operator.
which went on to a compensation package consisting of 10 x300 to make up the bad experience i had.
Which led to more calamity. I then found out that i was playing fake games by reading Casiomeister forum by chance.

Since then I complained to Governing body of Curacao, My credit card and direct debit visa suppliers this has then went on to the ombudsman.

I last left you with a reply i got from Game-tech compliance team basically trying hard to cover up the use of counterfeit games and dismiss my claims.
I then had some awesome Help From Pogg editor (thanks again to this forum and excellent communications)
providing help and most importantly proof that they cheated.I passed this information on .
The reply was

Dear blank

You may rest assured that I carefully read your responses to Atlantic Casino’s claims. Ultimately, the facts in this matter are clear. You did not actually win EU 3000 nor did the casino take it away. You were effected by a malfunction that was beyond the Casino’s control, and any winnings resulting from that malfunction are invalid. Before and after the malfunction, you had the same balance in your account. In addition, the Casino staff presented the 300x10 bonus package properly, so that you knew or should have known that its total possible withdrawal value could not be more than 1000 Euro. This was explained in your chat before you accepted the bonus program. Like any bonus, the ones you received are governed by the Bonus Terms and Conditions.

As for the matter of the games' authenticity, all the relevant documentation has been turned over. The casino has always acted in good faith and that it continues to serve gamers with the complete cooperation and authorization of Netent.

We consider this matter closed.


Compliance Officer
Game Tech Group N.V -
Reg. nr. 135144
Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg Z/N
UTS
Gebouw
Curacao

This is the funny thing about this the governing body of Curacao have never once responded or acknowledged the emails allowing these thief's to get away Scot free.
Even after a real damming reply from the Pogg editor to them they still have not replied.
Probably a lost cause now i think its real poor of the governing body not mediate the matter .
Anyone got any idea on how to light a firework underneath there asses. Maybe invite several Casino journalists to witness the email thread might be a idea.

on another note still having problems with my visa direct debit complaint regarding refunding my money back from these thief's.
They say thee is not a section that covers this therefore they cannot charge back.Maybe i should just lie and say they took my money without my knowledge but i would be as bad as them.

again any help would be appreciated.

That's a brush-off because it's not a standard complaint under section75 and they can't be bothered to categorize it. Issue a country court summons online if they continue to do so. Your are protected against purchasing fake goods or not being supplied with virtual or real goods you purchased. If the POGG is assisting you get a statement of fact and carry on trying. Should they not comply supply the evidence on a CC summons. I promise you they'll pay it then. It only costs 50 quid or so and you'd get that repaid when you win the claim. They wouldn't let it get to court as it would open a whole can of worms for them if the ruling got out and would lay them open to refund every other person ripped-off by this shower of shite.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Sorry not be on here for a while been on vacation

If you recall my story i played on Atlantic club casino during Hackgate (yes my new name for it)
During my time some 12 weeks, i had some misfortunes.
My game of jack hammer whilst in a feature session totaling 3,000 winnings with 177 spins left mysteriously crashed or forced off by the operator.
which went on to a compensation package consisting of 10 x300 to make up the bad experience i had.
Which led to more calamity. I then found out that i was playing fake games by reading Casiomeister forum by chance.

Since then I complained to Governing body of Curacao, My credit card and direct debit visa suppliers this has then went on to the ombudsman.

I last left you with a reply i got from Game-tech compliance team basically trying hard to cover up the use of counterfeit games and dismiss my claims.
I then had some awesome Help From Pogg editor (thanks again to this forum and excellent communications)
providing help and most importantly proof that they cheated.I passed this information on .
The reply was

Dear blank

You may rest assured that I carefully read your responses to Atlantic Casino’s claims. Ultimately, the facts in this matter are clear. You did not actually win EU 3000 nor did the casino take it away. You were effected by a malfunction that was beyond the Casino’s control, and any winnings resulting from that malfunction are invalid. Before and after the malfunction, you had the same balance in your account. In addition, the Casino staff presented the 300x10 bonus package properly, so that you knew or should have known that its total possible withdrawal value could not be more than 1000 Euro. This was explained in your chat before you accepted the bonus program. Like any bonus, the ones you received are governed by the Bonus Terms and Conditions.

As for the matter of the games' authenticity, all the relevant documentation has been turned over. The casino has always acted in good faith and that it continues to serve gamers with the complete cooperation and authorization of Netent.

We consider this matter closed.


Compliance Officer
Game Tech Group N.V -
Reg. nr. 135144
Dr. M.J. Hugenholtzweg Z/N
UTS
Gebouw
Curacao

This is the funny thing about this the governing body of Curacao have never once responded or acknowledged the emails allowing these thief's to get away Scot free.
Even after a real damming reply from the Pogg editor to them they still have not replied.
Probably a lost cause now i think its real poor of the governing body not mediate the matter .
Anyone got any idea on how to light a firework underneath there asses. Maybe invite several Casino journalists to witness the email thread might be a idea.

on another note still having problems with my visa direct debit complaint regarding refunding my money back from these thief's.
They say thee is not a section that covers this therefore they cannot charge back.Maybe i should just lie and say they took my money without my knowledge but i would be as bad as them.

again any help would be appreciated.

1) It wasn't beyond the casino's control, the fault was the result of them using fake games that clearly were a "bodge" because they were not running from an official NetEnt server.

2) Not "continues", but "has now started" to offer NetEnt games with the "cooperation and authorisation of NetEnt", and this only because they got busted.

This reply from Curacao is really about reinforcing the cover up, it is worded carefully to avoid mentioning the fake games, and this gives the impression that the games have always been genuine by the use of the word "continues" to imply that the current state of the NetEnt games (genuine) is a continuation of the past state (which as we now know was fake).

 

[ThePOGG]

1)
This reply from Curacao is really about reinforcing the cover up, it is worded carefully to avoid mentioning the fake games, and this gives the impression that the games have always been genuine by the use of the word "continues" to imply that the current state of the NetEnt games (genuine) is a continuation of the past state (which as we now know was fake).

While this is technically a reply from "Curacao" because the sender lists an address in Curacao, it's not a response from the regulator. This is the "Compliance Officer" from the "Game Tech Group N.V.". Basically the legal team for the platform providers that were offering the counterfeit games in the first place. There is no way this person will every acknowledge the issue directly as that would create more legal liability than there already is.

Unfortunately this group is registered with "Curacao eGaming" as their master license holder. Despite having a fancy new site with a complaint submission form on every license page, I've had numerous players submit complaints to them - I've even contacted this group numerous times myself - and never received a response ever. From inside the industry I have been told by 2 people that have worked with them in the past that the complaint emails essentially just go straight in the bin without ever being read. Sadly I'd be absolutely stunned if the player ever actually got any form of acknowledgement from the "regulator".

Anyway, here's the response I sent to the GameTech rep:

"Hi [EDIT],

While I can't comment on the specifics of the bonus package offered as I don't have the information necessary to draw a conclusion, suggesting that there was no problem with the NetEnt games being offered by GameTech is dishonest and misleading.

That GameTech were offering counterfeit NetEnt games has been established beyond doubt and confirmed by NetEntertainment. That you are now running genuine NetEnt games is irrelevant to the conversation as those games were not in place at the time that this issue occurred.

The continued insistence that GameTech acted in "good faith" is obviously intended to imply that they were not aware of counterfeit nature of the games they were provided. While I have significant doubts that a company of GameTech's size and significance within the gaming industry would have engaged a contract with a supplier without verifying the authenticity of the product being purchased, even if GameTech genuinely were not aware that they were supplying counterfeit games that doesn't make this any less of a failure on their part. The only difference is between wilful dishonesty and negligence. If GameTech were not aware of the non-genuine nature of the games they were supplying, then they had fundamentally failed to carry out their due diligence and are now burdening players with the responsibility for this failure. That several employees of the GameTech group have flat out lied regarding this issue, suggesting that they only every ran genuine games and "Everything you've been reading is bull. There are people out there trying to ruin our reputation.", also doesn't lend any credence to the honesty of the claims that GameTech acted in "good faith"

Furthermore, trying to explain these counterfeit games away as a "bug" or "malfunction" stretches the definition of either term beyond breaking point. Suggesting that offering counterfeit games is a malfunction or technical error is disingenuous. When the hand break cable on my car snaps and my car roles into a lake, that's a technical malfunction. The cable shouldn't have snapped. When the manufacturer fails to include a hand break cable in my car, that's negligence.

The fundamental facts in this issue are that the GameTech group offered unlicensed and untested games to their players, games that violated intellectual properties licenses and wilfully mislead players into believing that they were playing with a reputable provider. This came about as a result of either criminal intent or a complete failure to carry out the requisite due diligence by both GameTech and their licencor. Regardless of which of these alternatives allowed these games to be offered to players, the responsibility for this failure absolutely lies with GameTech and that players have been mis-sold a product goes without question.

Regards,

Duncan G (Manager and ADR Official for ThePOGG.com)"

 

[ThePOGG]

Issue a country court summons online if they continue to do so. Your are protected against purchasing fake goods or not being supplied with virtual or real goods you purchased. If the POGG is assisting you get a statement of fact and carry on trying. Should they not comply supply the evidence on a CC summons.

This is stepping into a territory that I've not ventured into previously. More than happy to attest to what I can confirm, but if you have more information on this process forward it on to me and I'll ensure the player is directed appropriately.

 

[spintee]

What makes things worse is netent is now offering games to somebody who ripped them off, I wonder how much back pay they got from that? Also now they have REAL games they will use this as a mask to cover up any wrong doings,

Netent now should take the half blame also and refund any player that was cought out in this web of deceit,

It boggles my mind how theses big providers are letting criminals use there software, Talk about greedy, Having a shoot on the fruits should be enjoyable but its far from that now days,

It makes me think how much of our money is going into the hands of criminals

 

[jetset]

What makes things worse is netent is now offering games to somebody who ripped them off, I wonder how much back pay they got from that? Also now they have REAL games they will use this as a mask to cover up any wrong doings,

Netent now should take the half blame also and refund any player that was cought out in this web of deceit,

It boggles my mind how theses big providers are letting criminals use there software, Talk about greedy, Having a shoot on the fruits should be enjoyable but its far from that now days,

It makes me think how much of our money is going into the hands of criminals

Without the full facts here it's impossible to know exactly what motivated NetEnt in turning a blind eye to the fraudulent use of their games, and exacerbating the situation by then licensing the perpetrator (or so it seems from this thread).

That said, I have to agree with Spintee that it is surprising that NetEnt would be happy to overlook the illicit use of their games, possibly in the interests of making some cash from a dodgy operator trying to escape the consequences of his illegal activity in the first place.

One would think that a well established company like NetEnt would want to maintain its reputation and discourage other bad actors by making an example of crooks like these.

 

[The Dude]

The sad thing about this is that this is just another episode of "I don't give a shit" by the people that it affects the most - much like the Playtech/Joyland Casino progressive scandal of 2009. No one gives a shit - even with the people that it affects most detrimentally. I would have thought that the Playtech operators would have been livid that the owner of Joyland Casino (Ted Sagi) made off with about $2 million of a progressive jackpot that was not even his to begin with. No one cared then - no one cares now.

And here we have a scandal with a bogus licensing jurisdiction. Letting a casino company get away with ripping off who knows how many players with unlicensed, pirated software. And they are still allowed to operate. And there is no plan for any audit to make sure all players are paid back their funds.

And we expect the online casino industry to be taken seriously? What a farce!