A letter to the casinos

[steinhaug]

After wagering at casinos and losing a fortune the last yeays I just felt like sharing some thought to you - the casinos. Whenever I lose over a period of time I always kindly ask the CS for a manager bonus to feel warm and welcome in the casino, and usually this is met with a bonus - since after all - I am an overall loser and you have no ways of pleasing me except credits anyways.

So, what's the point here. Well, we all know that you want customers. You want people wagering, you have a house edge, and therefore you want me spinning those wheels since I will be a loser in the end most likely. (sure I can have fun during the stay, but you get my point).

The problem, say I should be so lucky that I accually win. Like I did a few weeks ago in Red Flush. (I onlu mention this since this forum already knows this, I made a thread on my great win). I also know that the policy is pretty much alike, which is why I post here.

When asking CS for a little manager bonus to keep my interest since I deposited 1K after the win without more cashouts I get the expected answer taht because I won I don't get any more manager bonus. That is - between the lines - I would - however I need to lose more than I have taken out...

For me as the player - this tells me one thing. Why on earth would I want to continue wagering at Red Flush now that I already won? Say I deposit another 1000 dollars and up the wager, I have nothing to get back. If I play at whatever other casino I can atleast ask for some bonus. What if I deposit 4K? I would still not get any bonus from Red Flush, however all other casinos would happily give me some.

Needless to say, unless I win lot's at another casino I have no business in depositing at Red Flush anymore given I won. This is to me a sad reality, and I cannot really understand why a casino would have this policy? By giving me a little bonus, I would be happy and keep wagering, which would result in losing most likely like other players. Why is this a problem?

I rest my rant!

 

[The Dude]

Or....just don't use bonuses. I'm relatively bonus free since 1998 and lovin' it

Never have to be bothered with wagering requirements - can play any game I want any way I want. Never had to bitch and moan with a PAB

And I never feel jilted or ignored by a casino because they don't offer me a special bonus. I don't care - and they know it!

 

[bonustreak]

I am like you Meister on not taking a bonus. I like to have control of when and the amount that I can cashout.

 

[BingoT]

Some people just love them bonuses.I prefer No Bonus.If I make a deposit I know I can cash-out any time or day.
If you feel that lucky and you know your going to hit something great the bonus is all good.
Some people live by them & some don't
Just like at Vegas Sky I hit one for $900.00 so that made me close to the requirement I needed & cashed out that $152.00 max on that bonus offer.that they have.

 

[bryand]

I read OP's rant to mean he wanted a freebie after a big loss - not a match bonus.

 

[Luigi810]

I stopped using bonuses after I played 140,000 at a casino, asked for a free chip, they gave me $25.00, I won 4,000 with it and they never paid me my money, they said I could cash out $25.00, how would that make anybody feel??

 

[RobWin]

I stopped using bonuses after I played 140,000 at a casino, asked for a free chip, they gave me $25.00, I won 4,000 with it and they never paid me my money, they said I could cash out $25.00, how would that make anybody feel??

Luigi, what casino was that ??

 

[LaurieJim]

when i make a fresh deposit, i will never take a bonus with it now , on the other hand if i have spent X amount of dollars and i consider myself to be a regular customer of good standing at that casino ,you can bet your butt im going to ask for a freebie, when i have lost a great deal of money and they have earned my custom, i see nothing wrong in asking for it...................laurie

 

[jas2587]

I don't take bonus's unless they force it in your account when they do that I email an ask for it to be removed sometimes they do sometimes they won't remove it if they don't I never deposit there again

I have never ever asked for a freebie no matter how much I have won or lost they don't owe us a darn thing that would be like asking your electric company or car loan hey I have paid 11 months in a row now let me have the 12th month free

or the grocery store hey I buy here all the time let me have a free ride

nope just not in me

but hey thats me

Cindy

 

[LaurieJim]

I don't take bonus's unless they force it in your account when they do that I email an ask for it to be removed sometimes they do sometimes they won't remove it if they don't I never deposit there again

I have never ever asked for a freebie no matter how much I have won or lost they don't owe us a darn thing that would be like asking your electric company or car loan hey I have paid 11 months in a row now let me have the 12th month free

or the grocery store hey I buy here all the time let me have a free ride

nope just not in me

but hey thats me

Cindy

paying ones car payment, light bill and living items(grocerys) are are not the same as online gaming,when asking for a freebie imo , online gaming is entertainment with the chance to cashout if you are lucky, its no different from a b/m casino, they will send you offers, rooms, comped meals, ect. the only difference is you see these people that pay you at a b/m face to face when they pay you right on the spot, so if i spend alot at a online casino and have had a bad run, yes i will ask for a free comp, but hey thats just me...............laurie

 

[chuchu59]

Does this mean that we should continue playing that we regularly lose at in the hope that we might get a free chip since we are losers there while at the ones we have luck at will probably not succumb to your pleas. I wouldnt agree with this totally. While there may be a few casinos who will throw you a free chip or two because you have had horrendous sessions, gamblers are by nature superstitious and only play at slot/casinos which they feel will give them a run for the money or in other words where they are lucky at.

If I am unlucky at one place, I might also ask for a free chip given my bad luck there. But if I do manage to get anything from such a free chip, I cash out immediately and wont return for quite some time and regard the withdrawal as sort of a cashback. Come to think of it, there are many casinos who give regular cashback on losses some up to 15% monthly. Wouldnt that be better than any requests for free money?

 

[classymom]

There are a lot of Companies that throw freebie's to good customers ( ex. on my husbands 15 haircut @ his barber he gets a free cut) I don't think anyone should expect freebies but I think its good business practice to keep " valued" customers happy. JMO

 

[LaurieJim]

There are a lot of Companies that throw freebie's to good customers ( ex. on my husbands 15 haircut @ his barber he gets a free cut) I don't think anyone should expect freebies but I think its good business practice to keep " valued" customers happy. JMO

thats what i was trying to imply classyi very rarly take a bonus when i play with my own money, hardly ever, but when you have been a valued customer at any certain casino and you have had a run of bad luck, whats the harm of asking? i would never just deposit a few times and then go and ask but if i have been a loyal customer and they know im a good depositing player and i have been on a bad run, i will ask them this, " i have made so and so deposits this week, or today, what can you do for me?" i have recieved some nice bonuses or free chips to play on and was able to cashout. there is a huge difference between being a bonus/ chip abuser and a depositing valued customer imo but even your better casino's wont do anything if you dont ask and bring it to their attention..........................laurie

 

[Jasminebed]

Customer Retention

I have never asked for a free chip from any casino. I use what is offered me usually, and I do expect comps for play as per a casino's loyalty program.

I recently opened a VegasSky account and played the $38ND bonus they offered. Livechat operators were helpful, and I sucessfully completed the WR. They were helpful afterwards in making my withdrawal, and informed me that if I took a bonus with my confirmation deposit, I would be subject to WR, but that I could deposit and withdraw without taking a bonus. I was requested security documents. When I did not have government issued ID with my address, they requested a photograph of me holding my ID, and responded to my email promptly. After their receipt of my documentation, they paid to my Moneybookers account within hours, not the 2-5 business day time frame I was told to expect.

I do not have a flatbed scanner, nor a working printer, and with having to have a photograph taken as well, it was a while before I got everything together. I was aware that according to their Terms and Conditions, no bonus offers are made while a withdrawal was pending.

This was the first time I have ever been asked for ID for a cashout, but I have no problem with their policy, and knew this day would come eventually. Any delay in receiving this cashout was on my end.

Now you would think this would be the very next Rival I would deposit at, given that I have already met the identification requirements.

There is now a Reload Bonus for slots in my cashier of 100% match, without a 15X WR deposit plus bonus. This is difficult enough to meet, but there is 4X deposit MAX CASHOUT.

Now, does this casino believe I am luckier that most people just because I won once? Or that I psychically know what slot is going to "hit"?

Now, this bonus offer is subject to general terms and conditions as well. In order to view these, I have to go to the website, as there is no link from the casino software. This is standard at most casinos and platforms.

From Promotional Terms and Conditions:

2nd Deposit - 100% Bonus up to $200FREE

Receive a 100% FREE Play Bonus on your Second Deposit at the casino.

Maximum bonus for your Second Deposit is $200.

For Example:
Deposit $50 , Play with $100 ! your minimum wager is $1500
Deposit $100 , Play with $200 ! your minimum wager is $3000
Deposit $200 , Play with $400 your minimum wager is $6000

Bonuses will be INSTANTLY credited to your account.

This play bonus may not be combined with any other play bonus unless otherwise stated.

In the interest of fair gaming, we ask that you wager a minimum of fifteen (15) times your play bonus plus deposit (15 x (bonus + deposit) before requesting a withdrawal. This is a SLOTS ONLY BONUS so all wagers on any games which are not slots will not be taken into account and will be removed before processing a withdrawal.

My first deposit was taken without a bonus, so my next deposit would be my second. No where does it say that there is a Max cashout of 4X deposit.

But, there is another clause as well under GENERAL BONUS TERMS AND CONDITIONS:

6. Following the redemption of a bonus, if the player wishes to make a withdrawal which is greater than their deposit, they must have an amount greater than the sum of the deposit + bonus. For example, if a player makes a purchase US$100 and receives a bonus of US$100, then requests a withdrawal of US$170, this will result in US$170 being returned to the player's casino account. The player will only be able to withdraw again once their balance either exceeds US$200 or when the promotion is removed.

I was actually aware of the above clause from having previously read the Terms and Conditions prior to signup. So not only do I have to wager my deposit plus bonus 15X, I must at least double my money. I could live with this, if I was not restricted to a max cashout of 4X my deposit. We are not talking a free chip here, but MY MONEY. I will not be taking advantage of this bonus when I have offers from other Rivals with the immediately above clause and the same WR but no Max cashout ceiling.

VegasSky owes me no promotions. Although the terms for the First 4 Deposit bonuses are clearly stated on the website, they include the catch all clause:

12. The management reserves the right to disqualify certain countries or individual players from promotional offers. Promotional offers via email, telephone or mail are extended only to the player whom the correspondence is addressed.

VegasSky does not seem to have a rep here, so I will email support a link to my posting in this thread, not because I am asking for anything special, but I am hoping they will present me with the Match Deposit offers as posted on their website, and not invoke clause 12 above. It does sound from other posts like they are trying to do a good job, and I have been happy with the support I have received to date.

A casino will not recoup a payout by failing to offer its customers as good a deal as they will get from a competitor. It is not like some slot players are more "skillful" than others.

I would also like to point out that I played after meeting WR, including dropping below max cashout from the free chip and thereby risking my own funds, before bouncing back to max cashout, and garnered no comp points for this play, or the play of the non-cashable part of my win above the max cashout.

It requires a lot of effort to attact new customers. I would think it is easier to retain them by making offers not overly advantageous to players, rather than make a competitor's offer more attractive.

 

[RobWin]

I recently opened a VegasSky account and played the $38ND bonus they offered.

There is now a Reload Bonus for slots in my cashier of 100% match, without a 15X WR deposit plus bonus. This is difficult enough to meet, but there is 4X deposit MAX CASHOUT.

My first deposit was taken without a bonus, so my next deposit would be my second. No where does it say that there is a Max cashout of 4X deposit.

It's listed on the bonus coupon itself in the cashier, I have the same one but it is a ridiculous coupon if you ask me and I would never ever play with one where I had a max cashout...

 

[Jasminebed]

Thanks Rob. I am not complaining that it was unclear. Although that there is a minimum cashout of deposit plus bonus after meeting WR is well buried back in the General Terms and Conditions from the website.

 

[The Dude]

I read OP's rant to mean he wanted a freebie after a big loss - not a match bonus.

Sure - but is there really such a thing as a freebie in online casinoland??

 

[spearmaster]

Don't forget that, in general, you don't get bonuses at land-based casinos, unless you've played there for some time. All you get are comps.

In an online casino, you get comps AND bonuses. Now I understand where someone might play at some casino where they might get more bonuses - but if these bonuses are being given to you because you've lost a lot, you ought to think twice about playing at all.

A good casino SHOULD comp or bonus someone based on their amount of play, period, regardless of whether they won or lost. Losing should not be a criteria for a bonus - and winning should not be a reason for not giving a bonus.

That being said, I don't ask for bonuses anywhere. I do not believe in this mentality because I think if you've reached this stage, then you need to rethink your reasons for playing online.

I've not played online since just after the UIGEA was enacted - and while I miss it, I'm not about to go looking for reasons to play again. But Simmo can tell you that I do play in Macau, and I keep losing my ass because he doesn't know how to choose good machines But the actual availability of comps may be responsible for me losing more money - so imagine what it would be like if they started giving me other bonuses as well.

I did get a first-class ferry ticket back to Hong Kong though

 

[RobWin]

Don't forget that, in general, you don't get bonuses at land-based casinos, unless you've played there for some time. All you get are comps.

In an online casino, you get comps AND bonuses. Now I understand where someone might play at some casino where they might get more bonuses - but if these bonuses are being given to you because you've lost a lot, you ought to think twice about playing at all.

A good casino SHOULD comp or bonus someone based on their amount of play, period, regardless of whether they won or lost. Losing should not be a criteria for a bonus - and winning should not be a reason for not giving a bonus.

That being said, I don't ask for bonuses anywhere. I do not believe in this mentality because I think if you've reached this stage, then you need to rethink your reasons for playing online.

I've not played online since just after the UIGEA was enacted - and while I miss it, I'm not about to go looking for reasons to play again. But Simmo can tell you that I do play in Macau, and I keep losing my ass because he doesn't know how to choose good machines But the actual availability of comps may be responsible for me losing more money - so imagine what it would be like if they started giving me other bonuses as well.

I did get a first-class ferry ticket back to Hong Kong though

LOL...Blame it all on poor ole Simmo huh...

 

[cynthial]

But Simmo can tell you that I do play in Macau, and I keep losing my ass because he doesn't know how to choose good machines

I can't understand why you even allow him to hang out with you. Is it a charitable thing like the Big Brother Program?


(derail over, could not resist)

Hahahahahahhaha, Rob could not resist either. Easy target, eh Rob?

 

[Jasminebed]

Spearmaster, I totally agree that comp points should be based on play, win or lose.

But I do get bonuses at Landbased casinos, and have since I started going regularly about 10 years ago. All players playing slots with their player's card get cashback, based on play, and some send Xmas and Birthday gifts in cash certificates to be redeemed within a certain timeframe. Yes cash, no WR attached. This is in addition to free meals, as well as concerts, shows and rooms.

I only have a choice of a few casinos within a few hours drive, but I have a choice of hundreds on line.

The idea that online casinos seem to have is that WINNERS are undesirable customers. I've been a gambler long enough to know the only real winner in this business is the casino, and to keep us coming back is easier than recruiting us.

 

[steinhaug]

OK people, I see this made a few comments - however I didn't read them yet, I did notice the argument is taking bonuses or not and I will shed some light on this. Tomorrow I will read the whole thread and comments again, I might do some wrong here however I do not think so.

Believe me, it is not about taking bonuses! That was not, is not, and will never be the point of the argument. Looking at myself, being what I might aswell call a hardcore impossible gambler I already know the following:

1. I will lose big!

recently I did some interesting alalysis on the playcheck data which I will share with the people in London in January! I know you are gonna love this! It is indeed interesting! However, what is still the point is that from a 100x win we usually need another 500 spins to be able to get another one. They simply do not come twice in row, that is - atleast not in 100.000 spins samle so I rest my theoretical you could win on every spin data. We all know that after a great win, comes a great suck - again - analyzing a few 100.000 spins graphically with mean bet and mean payout it all becomes obvious. So say you had an angry bet and was extremely lucky and got a 1000x win, you know in your gut - and now - I can proove it statistically from the playcheck data - it will eat you after this till the same mean win has been lost. During such a dry spell, if you are wagering to high you will quickly lose interest in the game. People - people - who enjoys depositing in bulks of $100 for say 3K during 1 month and have 60% payout to look back to?

In such a period, simply asking CS for a complementary bonus during the dry spell is atleast for me a token of appretiation - and giving me this free chips will ensure me that I will become a steady customer.

I already know I will lose, I already know that looking statistically at the last 3 years of data my playing style will only give me a win every 6 month (and I will win like 1/3 of the wagered amount). I am very agressive.

So say I just did 4000 spins of 60% payout, and say I have 5 different casinoes which I can deposit at. Say (I am not referring to Red Flush now, this is a theoretical question) the casino in mention I for some reason are pretty even steven at! I know - that if I deposit another 2K I might get over the dry spell and start winning.

The problem however, ok I'm drunk so I am a little dary in my speech here but no pun intended. Given existing premise.

I have played at Red flush, and I am still 4K or so ahead.
I have played at 32Red, and I am not ahead.

Both casinos are MG, I have equal chance of winning (given there is no funny business here, which is another discussion). By depositing 2K in 32red and losing, I am pretty sure - I do not have a guarantee - that if this, if I ask gently I will be able to get some free chips. I will enujoy theese, since they will help me get possible over the dry spell. If at the same time depositing the same omount at Red Flush - I know that they will not be able to be nice to me before I have lost atleast 5K.

So again - if the system is fair, I had luck. However - by now I have proven that the luck is away and I am falling. Therefore, since I am falling I wanted a little "appretiation", we already know thay cannot give me a beer or sandwitch, sigarettes or whatever - they can only give me chips. Will I win again, probably not. So why treat me like a nobody (Well, That said Red Flush CS did not do that to be correct, I got a honest answer it was impossible to give me the chips because of my winnings and I politely respected that.) Again - however - my point remains.

Ok, i have many points now, thank the beermeister for that!

Do Red Flush expect me to keep depositing in their casino, when they should know I could get free chips in other casinos?

And if I should win on a free chip, looking at a broader perspecive. Even with a 100x playthrough, during a year - im in it for the spins anyway - I will truly complete the wagering anyway. I do not need the free chips that bad, however I look at is as an appretiation from the casino that they value me as a player.

I know, I am on a rant, and I must stop. Maby I shoud edit this tomorrow, LOL. Anyways, good commenting people, I will come with a sober response in 24 hours or so.

Cheers, and for gods sake Casino people who made a fortune on me, where is that case of beer when I need it?? (That was a joke, unless you took it seriously, LOL)
*looking for beer emotion but cannot find it*

 

[Jasminebed]

, scroll down to Show All Smilies. No red wine smilies tho.

 

[chuchu59]

Don't forget that, in general, you don't get bonuses at land-based casinos, unless you've played there for some time. All you get are comps.

In an online casino, you get comps AND bonuses. Now I understand where someone might play at some casino where they might get more bonuses - but if these bonuses are being given to you because you've lost a lot, you ought to think twice about playing at all.

A good casino SHOULD comp or bonus someone based on their amount of play, period, regardless of whether they won or lost. Losing should not be a criteria for a bonus - and winning should not be a reason for not giving a bonus.

That being said, I don't ask for bonuses anywhere. I do not believe in this mentality because I think if you've reached this stage, then you need to rethink your reasons for playing online.

I've not played online since just after the UIGEA was enacted - and while I miss it, I'm not about to go looking for reasons to play again. But Simmo can tell you that I do play in Macau, and I keep losing my ass because he doesn't know how to choose good machines But the actual availability of comps may be responsible for me losing more money - so imagine what it would be like if they started giving me other bonuses as well.

I did get a first-class ferry ticket back to Hong Kong though

Spear,

The Venetian guys are getting desperate for buseiness and they offer everyone a Cotai Rewards Club card which gives you comps but most of all they give you free ferry tickets (economy) if you have played for one hour (min HKD200 tables) and that is a real bargain.

What machines were you playing. Look at the other thread on 'Jackpot Party' slots. It is available at the Venetian and is one of the better slots I have experienced in Macau. There are different versions with interesting features and they all lead to the same progressive which is awarded randomly. So maybe you and Simmo can look for this next time you go.

As for me, I dont like the atmosphere there and it seems that smoking is not prohibited and I could see people smoking in the hotel lobbies and even the food court. Even with free ferry tickets, I am not going to go back in a hurry.

 

[tofu23]

If you don't take a bonus you will lose. Period. If you enjoy losing, go ahead and pour your money down the drain.

But here is a solution to all the non-bonus losers. Play in Fun Mode. Because I can't see the difference - you can't win not taking a bonus, and you can't win playing Fun Mode. Except in Fun Mode - you can't lose either!

.

 

[The Dude]

That being said, I don't ask for bonuses anywhere. I do not believe in this mentality because I think if you've reached this stage, then you need to rethink your reasons for playing online.

Amen to that!

 

[steinhaug]

Amen to that!

While this all sounds fine and dandy, I cannot help to think that if this was true - there would not be a casino business! They thrive on players like me, the ones not having the control to stop and wagering more than they intended or could afford at that particular time. The do not make money on the $20 deposits, they make it on the 2K deposits.

Anyways, nice to be sober again!

I'll take free chips any day, because I know I will lose anyway (atleast historically I always did, I have eccepted the reality that i will never be a winner!), only a question of time! I only get a rush from the big win anyways - free chips or not - still the same adrenalin boiling though the veins! I much rather make the casino let me free-ride a dry spell, than deposit more money to play through it.

Thanks for the comments people! I do wish the casinos would have change their policy though, however it doesn't really matter as I have pointed out. Lot's of cainos throw free chips at you, and as I know I have the capacity to go overboard, I require the attention of free chips if I should do so - especially since they are so easy to get when losing (that is - total balance in casino account is below zero)!

Whatever, the argument feels exhausted - what I would like to see is some casino representatives respond, not fellow members (including you Casinomeister,lol) since our views really doesn't mean squat in this matter,

 

[steinhaug]

Not to make the thread derail totally here, my question fro the a casino would be:

Scenario, say deposit is 1K, withdrawal is 10K. Last session has deposited 2K and lost all.

If loosing 2K qualifies for a $100 manager bonus if you ask for it, it should't really matter if I am a winner or loser in the long run [statistically one would lose].

Given normal practise is NOT giving any form of extra bonuses for a winning customer, even if loosing 2K straight. [I am still 7K ahead]

Question: Why would I want to keep playing at such a casino, knowing I will get minimal service? I know I need to lose 7K more to get back to scratch, and probably lose 1K more before being qualified for free chips when the going gets tough. At this point service will be superior again, since I now am VIP again, [the irony]

The other casinos have the same software and games.
The other casinos have the same deposit options
The other casinos have the same withdrawal options
The other casinos have the same live chat
The other casinos will treat you nice if losing by throwing some chips in your direction

Disclaimer:
I hope I do not sound angry or dishappy with anyone, then I applogize, this is not my intention. I have dropped my wagering much this year, and my losses are not what they used to be. I have no argument with any casino, I have no problem with their practise which by the way pretty much all casinos share regarding this thread. I am however interested in the business logic behind this way of treating the customers with manager bonus, as I simply cannot understand how this is costly for the casino - in my head I can only sum it up with the casino losing customers this way. Anyways!

 

[Jufo]

Question: Why would I want to keep playing at such a casino, knowing I will get minimal service? I know I need to lose 7K more to get back to scratch, and probably lose 1K more before being qualified for free chips when the going gets tough. At this point service will be superior again, since I now am VIP again, [the irony]

So then DON'T play at the same casino. It is their mistake if they cannot see that giving you some freebies would make you lose some of your winnings back to them. It's not like there aren't plenty of other casinos to choose from, so I don't see what's the problem.

 

[steinhaug]

So then DON'T play at the same casino. It is their mistake if they cannot see that giving you some freebies would make you lose some of your winnings back to them. It's not like there aren't plenty of other casinos to choose from, so I don't see what's the problem.

You are not getting my point here. I have no problem here, what I do not understand is how this practice accually serves the casino? It sounds to me that the the casino is not serving their own best interest here.

So look at it as a theoretical question I would like to try and understand the business logic behind, since I do not get it.

 

[jas2587]

If you don't take a bonus you will lose. Period. If you enjoy losing, go ahead and pour your money down the drain.

But here is a solution to all the non-bonus losers. Play in Fun Mode. Because I can't see the difference - you can't win not taking a bonus, and you can't win playing Fun Mode. Except in Fun Mode - you can't lose either!

.

you are wrong you say if you don't take a bonus you will lose
I dont take a bonus an I win quite often I have never had to fund my Quicktender or ewallet with cash from any banking or wire transfers etc I have always funded mine from Winning an not taking a Bonus

Cindy

So I dont have to play in fun mode
an there are casino reps that can verify that i dont take any bonus unless they force it on you as in as soon as you deposit they add it like Micro does

 

[catrina m]

I have always appreciated a little appreciation bonus, they should at least acknowledge that deposits are the means by which they survive.

I generally like playing an an even field, where i can get out with a lucky win if I so chose. All the bonuses I have played have been free with no deposit sans a scant few.

If your giving out free money I will take your bonus terms no matter how ridiculous, but when I deposit hard earned money I want it to be clear, if I win I might walk with it.

 

[mojo]

I can relate to the OP except that I have never cashed out at Red Flush and deposited tons. Not to say it isn't a good casino but when I go to chat for a little something something I expect it. I dont ask for much.

I do like this casino but I get comped better elsewhere so that is where I will go. I happen to like comps because I get tired of playing with my own dam money sometimes lol. And, I like to see how a bonus request is received. Here is my chat from just tonight. I thought my request was resonable but I ended up confused. Maybe I was mixed up? I definately am treated better elsewhere. There is some confusion on loyalty or is it me? It didn't make much sense but the responses were so slow I had to get out.

Micky: Welcome to Red Flush Casino. How may I assist you?
paula: hi micky
Micky: hi Paula
paula: just wondering if i have any loyalty points. i deposited over 1000 this month already but I don't get much for loyalty
Micky: please give me one moment
paula: ty
Micky: your current loyalty balance is 2678
paula: i didnt see that. is that in the my account section?
paula: i see 101
Micky: that is loyalty balance
Micky: the points earned to this date is 2678
paula: can i redeem them for $26?
Micky: i will have to check that
paula: my loyalty shows there is only 101
Micky: And that is correct
paula: ?
Micky: you can redeemed from 1000 loyalty points
paula: i dont understand. you said i have 2678
paula: then 101
paula: then 1000?
Micky: no i said that the points that you earned to this date are 2678
paula: no you said my current loyalty balance is 2678. my history shows i have redeemed 4000 to date
Micky: your current loyalty balance is 101
paula: you have lost me micky lol
Micky: Oh my mistake.
Micky: I am sorry for that Paula
paula: no problem
Micky: so i was saying that your points earned to date are 2678
Micky: and your loyalty balance is 101
Micky: so you can redeem from 1000 loyalty points
paula: but i cannot because i only have 101 correct?
Micky: yes!!!
paula: ok so I deposit over 1000 and get about $10?
paula: i think there is something very wrong here
Micky: not if you deposit, if you earn 1000 loyalty points
Micky: you cannot buy loyalty points
paula: i should be getting more than $10 for depositing and playing over $1000. dont you agree?
paula: i earn points by playing
paula: i do much better at other microgaming casinos
paula: so i will just uninstall red flush
Micky: what do you mean?
paula: if i deposit 1000, i usually look forward to redeeming a fair amount of loyalty. not $10
Micky: most casinos have the same approach when it come to the loyalty points
paula: im sorry, i will just leave it at that and do not wish to play at red flush at this time.
paula: thank you for your assistance.
paula: i will be uninstalling. i understand i cannot re-install as i am in the usa
Micky: You are welcome Paula.
paula: best of luck to you.

 

[tofu23]

you are wrong you say if you don't take a bonus you will lose
I dont take a bonus an I win quite often I have never had to fund my Quicktender or ewallet with cash from any banking or wire transfers etc I have always funded mine from Winning an not taking a Bonus

Cindy

So I dont have to play in fun mode
an there are casino reps that can verify that i dont take any bonus unless they force it on you as in as soon as you deposit they add it like Micro does

Which casino game(s) are giving you +EV jas2587 - let us all in on the secret.

And just imagine - how much more you would have won had you taken a bonus!!

Harping on about "not taking a bonus" is an invitation for people to lose. It is attempting to make a virtue out of losing your money.

Sorry, I can't hide my contempt for such things. On another thread (Ksmiss' letter??) I read about Casino owners, Casino Managers, Casino Affiliates quaffing champagne and dining out on truffles.

I decided a long time ago that it will be a cold day in hell before I pay for truffles and the fattening of a Casino's waistline.

..

 

[chuchu59]

Tofu,

A bit too harsh on someone who just happens to disagree with you. I always take a bonus when I want to play slots because it extends my playing time. Sometimes, when I am down to the last few dollars of my bonus and where the depsit was already lost, I bounced back with a good profit. However, there were also occasions where I had a healthy profit early in my slot play but eventually busted out because of the WRs. So, if you dont take a bonus, you hope to win big and early because the longer you play the more the -EV will bear on you. On the other hand, if you take a bonus you should examine the terms carefully. Anything over 15x deposit+bonus or unwithdrawable bonus is not to my liking as you are likely to bust 90% of the time. That said, I still play a couple of these and bet big at high variance slots.

In summary, to each his own. You wouldnt expect KK to play without a bonus and you are unlikely to see Bryan, Simmo or Pinababy playing with one. Both ways work sometimes though I guess everybody knows that we lose in the long run.

 

[Jufo]

You are not getting my point here. I have no problem here, what I do not understand is how this practice accually serves the casino? It sounds to me that the the casino is not serving their own best interest here.

So look at it as a theoretical question I would like to try and understand the business logic behind, since I do not get it.

I know, it shows a very bad business sense to turn away past winners from returning. On the other hand giving a free chip is always financial risk, because you might win from it and never come back. They cannot be sure that you will return to gamble.

Some casinos have different policies though. Some time ago I won 5000$ from a MG casino and after I cashed out, they made me a golden member and invited me to nice promotions, as well as putting some 100$ free chips on my account. I got the treatment that is commonly reserved for losing players only.

 

[LaurieJim]

I know, it shows a very bad business sense to turn away past winners from returning. On the other hand giving a free chip is always financial risk, because you might win from it and never come back. They cannot be sure that you will return to gamble.

Some casinos have different policies though. Some time ago I won 5000$ from a MG casino and after I cashed out, they made me a golden member and invited me to nice promotions, as well as putting some 100$ free chips on my account. I got the treatment that is commonly reserved for losing players only.

a good casino will always take care of it's loyal customers, if they want to continue to have that player's custom imo....laurie

 

[steinhaug]

Some time ago I won 5000$ from a MG casino and after I cashed out, they made me a golden member and invited me to nice promotions, as well as putting some 100$ free chips on my account. I got the treatment that is commonly reserved for losing players only.

Just for the point of argument, did you ever return to that casino and made more deposits as a result of this great treatment?

If you did - giving you that same treatment as if you were on the other end of the stick - infact made you becoma a loyal customer instead of throwing you away.

If I didn't ask for a chip here and there this would not be any problem for me, but since I isually do this, and since I usually get one while losing I can't help being frustrated by the flawed logic from the casino denying me this since I won. (that is - they lose a customer).

You say they have no way of knowing I am going to lose? Well that is just bollocks. If I lose 1K in a fresh account and can get $100 with wagering requirements, why would loosing 1K a week after you won be any different? 1K should be 1K. If I won the last weel, surely the ods of me winning again would be slim! Infact - close to none - unless the system itself is flawed and serve the wins in cycles that is. Again - I just cannot see what the casino stands to gain by this.

Anyway, it's friday, time for beer!

 

[jas2587]

Which casino game(s) are giving you +EV jas2587 - let us all in on the secret.

And just imagine - how much more you would have won had you taken a bonus!!

Harping on about "not taking a bonus" is an invitation for people to lose. It is attempting to make a virtue out of losing your money.

Sorry, I can't hide my contempt for such things. On another thread (Ksmiss' letter??) I read about Casino owners, Casino Managers, Casino Affiliates quaffing champagne and dining out on truffles.

I decided a long time ago that it will be a cold day in hell before I pay for truffles and the fattening of a Casino's waistline.

..

your post just reeks of contempt or hate either 1 you hate the fact that some people win an win with their own style of play I have winning screen shots in the screenshot 2 from the same day an they aint for penny's either but they are not for 1000's either but damn I made heck of a wage at those 2casino's for 4 hrs playing time

if I would have taken a bonus I do not think I would have cashed out as the WR would have eaten away at my wins

I am not harping I was stating a Fact that I don't take a bonus even when I open a New account

so they ate truffles big deal they didn't have to pay for it they was doin it at the casino's exspense gee when I worked oppps I haven't worked in 28 yrs so it was called a buisness exspense tax right off what ever

You have a great day cause I know I will I don't worry bout others style of play just my own

Cindy

 

[LaurieJim]

your post just reeks of contempt or hate either 1 you hate the fact that some people win an win with their own style of play I have winning screen shots in the screenshot 2 from the same day an they aint for peeny's either but they are not for 1000's either but damn I made heck of a wage at those 2casino's for 4 hrs playing time

if I would have taken a bonus I do not think I would have cashed out as the WR would have eaten away at my wins

I am not harping I was stating a Fact that I don't take a bonus even when I open a New account

so they ate truffles big deal they didn't have to pay for it they was doin it at the casino's exspense gee when I worked oppps I haven't worked in 28 yrs so it was called a buisness exspence tax right off what ever

You have a great day cause I know I will I don't worry bout others style of play just my own
Cindy

this is true cindy, we all have our own style of playing, some do well on bonuses, while some dont, if it was a 10X no max cashout bonus, id love it it is easier to complete the w/r imo, but these ones with 20 or 30 or even 50 x's , well they spell nightmare for me, as for a free chip, to me thats a chance to recoup maybe a fraction of money that i may have lost or atleast have some free playing time, like i said, everyone is different, if we all had the answer on how to win, the casino's would be out of bizz........laurie

 

[steinhaug]

I respect people for not wanting bonuses, and I respect people for wanting bonuses. However my initial reasoning for the post has derailed since my point was not what many in here now are arguing.

The point is not bonus or not, and if you are a person not asking for free chips this thread do not apply to you at all - honestly. Some of us after a long period of deposits, and low payout, feel that further deposits is a dumb thing to do since obviously history tells us whatwill happend. In this event we kindly ask CS for a little attention, to keep us going. Given the scenario, usually CS will accomodate with this, free chips with requirements. However - the gesture - that you do get a little - is usually enough for the player (that is my kind of player) to come back and deposit more when you have more funds available. After all - if you do want to keep wagering at casinos and keep losing - you might aswell do it where they look after you when your down.

Again - my question is the definition of being down. By this reasoning in a casinogroup, take Spin Palace as example, if I won 5K at Mumys Gold, losing at Spin Palace would not give me any credits since I am still ahead at Mumys Gold.

Maby I am the only one having interest in theese matters, however I still havn't seen a satisfactory explernation why giving free chips to winning customers is bad for business.

Will I play more, sure I will. Will I deposit at casinos I know will not be able to throw free chips at me if I lose big, no. I will still deposit - however somewhere else. Since this is a protective, most likely, descission from the casino - how is this in the casinos best interest losing a custome over a few free credits?

I also notice that no casino representatives has commented anything in this thread, and they probably wont either, which means this thread is pretty much over. I love to hear other players views, so don't be offended by me asking you not to comment further, but as I noted earlier what we believe has nothing to do or does not affect anything in theese descissions in the end. I could state the earth is flat, I could say it a million times, it's still round.

I guess this is one of those questions that will never be answered in public.

 

[I BEEN THERE]

kimms said:

Maby I am the only one having interest in theese matters, however I still havn't seen a satisfactory explernation why giving free chips to winning customers is bad for business.

I highly doubt you are the only one interested in this matter. This should be a very important issue to ALL whether or not you ever take a bonus. Every single player wants to be appreciated and acknowledged at some point they are valued by the Casino, Bingo Site etc.. It is not so hard for ANY site to say thank you ( although these days it is ). As for ASSUMING that asking for or expecting a bonus means you have a problem, I disagree. I think it is simply good business to offer~! Bottom line, if not for the players, they would not be around. This is not like a grocery store where as people have to eat or a utility they must have. It is a play at your own risk ( game of chance ) that in the end we ALL lose, unless of course we hit & run and sites won't like that too much. Sadly, that is what they are now asking for by NOT acknowledging ALL their supporting players !

I BEEN THERE

 

[Jasminebed]

At my favourite land based casinos, you have to ask for meal comps. I get coupons and room offers by mail or email as well, and it was a while before I knew you could ask for extras.

 

[steinhaug]

It is a play at your own risk ( game of chance ) that in the end we ALL lose, unless of course we hit & run and sites won't like that too much. Sadly, that is what they are now asking for by NOT acknowledging ALL their supporting players !

The irony, by asking to close the account one suddenly gets the attention and service one would expect after losing in the first place. While this should be considered something, I can't help thinking of the double standard it really shows. The damage has already been done, unfortunately!

To bad no industry people would like to grab a piece of this argument, I would love to listen to some business logic and how they make money this way!