3Dice Tournaments- food for thought

[funeral979]

I would like to start out by saying that this is not a complaint about 3Dice, but just some observations of mine concerning a recent chain of events that I find quite unusual.

When I first started playing at 3Dice, I never really bothered with the tournaments. I never did well with the MG ones, so didn't figure these were worth it. I played a few from time to time....never really getting anywhere. After a few months I finally managed to win one of the VIP war tournaments, and let me tell you it was a great feeling. Only ten bucks, but it was like, "hey! I can win some of these things!!"

So I sort of became a tournament regular, actively participating on average about 6 or 7 a day. I didn't do well, but I managed a few here and there. I even won 2 in one day once. As the weeks went on, I started to get increasingly frustrated. The same names were consistantly (and they still are) winning. I recall a thread Skiny started last year on this subject.....I never read it at the time as I was not involved in the tournaments then. But it was a great read. I am not satisfied that it is an even playing field. Despite the numbers that were brought up in that thread, it is a certainty: The same group always wins more than others.

So one particular night a month or so ago, I decided to shoot an email to Anna, voicing my concern/frustrations. To be honest, I don't care if I win only one a month....I just don't think its fair that the same people win over and over and over. One of the perks of being a VIP is these tournaments. It is something everyone should be able to enjoy. So why do so few really benefit from it? It feels like 10% of the tournament players win 80% of the tournaments. On any given week you can scroll back and look at the previous 7 days winners and see the same names winning 5-10 tournaments a week. Maybe I just have really horrible luck? Do some players enjoy a higher tournament RTP% than others? All of these thoughts I put in my email.

Anna was on chat that night but never replied to my email. Well the next day the strangest thing happened. I won five, yes FIVE tournaments that day!!! 4 VIP tournaments and $25 in a player sponsored tournament. Unbelievable!!! What are the odds of that??? I had won 2 tournaments in a day once, maybe twice...and here it seems I was handed 5 tournaments in one day! This is not an exaggeration....Enzo can confirm this. And my email was never answered....

Anna was on the next 3 nights...still no answer. Whats funny, anytime I had ever emailed her before, I always got a quick reply. There was only one other occurence when she didn't reply to an email and that when my loyalty was not credited. Rather than reply, she simply fixed it for me the next day. So what was I to assume here? No replies to my concerns, just a nice fix....an improbable (for me) 5 tournament wins in a 24 hour period.

Maybe different players can enjoy a higher tournament RTP% ?? Maybe mine was set for 110% that day to even things out for me?? Who knows? Another interesting fact: I would say that a good 75% of my tournament wins are from not slot tourneys. Maybe this is because my slot % is set so low???.....and the table games are more an even playing field.

I have also never won a single prize in a screenshot hunt or chat trivia or any trivia for that matter. Yet you see many players time and time again getting 2 wins in the screenshot hunts so they have to sit out as it is a max 2 wins per hunt.

They had this thing going the other night called chain trivia. I didn't know how to play...as I am guessing many others didn't either...as it was just the regular few answering questions. Apparently whoever answers correctly gets to ask the next trivia question.....I mean, what is to stop them from PMing their buddies the answer to their question so they can win a prize??? One of the regular chatters even noted that it was the same group of winners as the last trivia. How odd is that?? Always 60,70,80 people in chat yet the same 5-10 always win? Of course another of the "regulars" said stop whining and spoiling it for the rest....I had to laugh as this was one of the lucky few who won, and won the last time....yes...why spoil all the free money handed down to the same people.

Again.....I really don't care if I never win....but LETS MAKE IT FAIR. Why should the same small group of people get these benefits meant for EVERYONE. Maybe just give these people who win 20 tournaments every month a free $200 comp at the end of the month and be done with it.

Or maybe use that tournament money and chat money to give players more deposit match bonuses....then EVERYONE could enjoy it.....not just a select few.

Maybe this is all in my head....maybe im incredibly unlucky....but it sure is an unlikely coincidence for me to get 5 tournament wins in a single day...right after voicing my concenrs over it.

Ok rant over.....any thoughts?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Where the same group keeps on winning something, it proves that there is an element of skill involved.

With trivia, you don't need buddies, just GOOGLE open in a separate window on your PC.

You can't beat them, so JOIN them, and hone your skills to beat them at their own game.

The MGS tournaments have less of an element of skill, but the SAME issue has arisen of the "same players" always seeming to win.

I know how it's done, and every so often I go out of my way to KICK THEIR ASSES to restore some sense of normality, and hopefully have then nursing a group loss in that event.

I have little experience of 3Dice tournaments other than to know that they offer MORE scope for strategy than MGS.

With trivia, and other chat contests, it is almost ALL speed and skill, and this grows with experience. The elite group that keep on winning probably play a great deal in these contests, improving both their speed and their skill.

You winning 5 that day was probably no more than coincidence, although maybe the elites eased off because they thought that if a big fuss was made, the contests would be redesigned to be "fairer".

When it comes to trivia, we have these "Trivia quiz machines" in pubs, and often a group plays them to win money, and they have a mix of specialist subjects that together gives them such a level of "skill" that they have been known to "empty" these machines of money

When I was at university, they had just come out, and students would wander the town in groups, supplementing their meagre incomes by winning money from such machines.

 

[Nifty29]

I know how it's done, and every so often I go out of my way to KICK THEIR ASSES to restore some sense of normality, and hopefully have then nursing a group loss in that event.

Why not share it?

Everyone could do it which would negate their method completely, or alternately MG could be informed and make any necessary changes. Either way those 'manipulators' lose.

Surely you don't use it to your advantage Vinyl......

 

[3mptyseat]

real play too?

@OP, do u play there in real funds as well?

 

[funeral979]

@OP, do u play there in real funds as well?

Yes I play there for real, though I have eased off depositing quite a bit as of late. If these tourneys and chat games and hunts can be manipulated, who is to say that real play can't be as well?

And as far as skill goes....I don't think so. As was mentioned before in Skiny's thread....there is no skill in playing max bet for one hour. Maybe the table game tournaments have a small element of skill, but I seem to do ok in those....its the slot tournaments I hardly ever win. Sure, on half of them the highest balance wins, not highest peak balance...so you have to know when to stop. But anyone with half a brain who has played a few tournaments has a pretty good idea of when a good time to stop is.

I really think that capping wins on a weekly or monthly basis would be the fair thing to do. I am a frequent depositor (and frequent loser), and should be able to enjoy the same benefits as everyone else (and so should the other 80% who don't win 5+ tourneys a week).

 

[Jasminebed]

I missed the particular trivia game funeral is talking about, but I usually do well at them. I've been playing trivia for decades, and most of the time google won't help you, someone knows or guesses it before you can search.

With the hunts and the chat trivia, as well as the peak tournaments, a faster machine and graphics card is a real plus. I'm not one to win these often as I've got a pokey machine.

A lot of the same players play a lot. The biggest trick to winning a lot of tourneys is to play a lot of tourneys.

I enjoy the competition and the chat, win or lose.

 

[funeral979]

I do play alot of tournaments.....probably around 50 or so a week. And I don't think I have a fast computer...maybe middle of the road....but I still manage more spins than almost everyone in the top 10 on peak tourneys.

I wonder if anyone else has won 5 tournaments in a single 24 hour period? I would have chalked it down to unusually good luck.....had it not started literally hours after shooting off my email.

Obviously things went back to normal after that.

 

[denamoutz]

i for one would also like to know if the casino can set each individuals rtp. I play alot of 3 dice tournaments and lately i haven't been able to win any. Anyone out there know if the casino can do this? Maybe since i don't deposit that much, maybe they lower my rtp?

 

[chayton]

Ever play a tourney at GoWild? It's the same bloody person winning all of them. Seriously it's ridiculous. I dunno about 3Dice tourneys, I've won a couple and lost a bunch, but I don't play them all. A lot of the people who win all the time are there all the time, so maybe that's it.

I've never had the experience of winning right after complaining about not winning - I wish! Remember that happened to someone who was complaining about not winning a Random Jackpot and then they won one...? Who was it, I can't remember.

But it's probably coincidence - I complain a LOT and I still can't win diddly.

 

[zap987]

I don't remember if I've won 5 in the same day but I do remember winning 4 vip tournaments in a row at least twice.

While the element of skill in slot tournaments isn't that big, there is still quite a lot of room for mistakes in choice of which slot to play, getting as many spins in as possible and what balance to stop playing at. Table games have even more room for mistakes which gives the smarter players a bigger edge. They already removed gamble from 99% of tournaments because a lot of people didn't understand that you had to use it to win, how far should they go?

There really isn't anything rigged or fishy going in the normal tournaments, it's just some people understand them better and will win a higher % of tournaments entered. Can't speak for chat tournaments but can imagine there is more room for cheating there but I barely join those anymore.

It does make me sad that the first reaction a lot of people have when they lose is to blame the game instead of look at what they can improve to win more but it's the same in every competitive game so not like that is anything specific to casino tournaments.

 

[denamoutz]

still haven't had my question answered yet Can they or can't they?

 

[vinylweatherman]

Why not share it?

Everyone could do it which would negate their method completely, or alternately MG could be informed and make any necessary changes. Either way those 'manipulators' lose.

Surely you don't use it to your advantage Vinyl......

I am referring to MGS tournaments, and I have already indicated how it is done.

1) BANKROLL - quite a few MGS tournaments are set up so that you can pretty much buy a win, provided your bankroll is big enough to fund as many continues as the next best player.

2) Optimum speed - for MGS this is 3 seconds between spins, but what you can achieve depends on many things that relate to your hardware, configuration, and your ISP. Time of day also plays a part - play when everybody else is at work, or in bed.

3) Maths - work out in advance whether the tournament is worth the bother. Observe the scores for a couple of runs before deciding to go "all in" with a large bankroll. A good estimate for a tournament with large numbers of continues is that the score is likely to be 95% of the coins you can play through, and the lower the variance of the slot, the more accurate this estimate is.

4) Check out the opposition - if there are other players also prepared to go "all in", you risk losing to one or more of them.

The loss of US players from the MGS tournaments have made them easier to win, but has also reduced the prizes on offer.


5) Prize structure - some heavily load the top places, whereas others distribute meaningful prizes over a number of positions.

6) The fewer continues and rebuys, the greater the part luck plays in the outcome.

7) Accept that they are unfair, and despite what MGS would have us believe, the same few players CAN just keep on winning more than their "fair share", although I bet a few end up LOSING because the cost of participation turns out to be MORE than the prize received.

8) Structure. MGS now allow players to have more than one alias, as it is now one per casino. This can make a difference when prizes are distributed more evenly. If you have won a minor prize, DON'T rebuy on THAT alias, but enter through a different account with one of your other aliases (this is how it's done when a group of very similar aliases form a group on the leaderboard). This tactic allows you to win multiple prizes in the same tournament, whereas only the highest score is paid on any one account.

MGS first allowed these "schemes" when they put profit before fairness in the run up to the first Grand Slam. They broke the "one alias over the MGS network" rule so that individual players could be granted multiple entries through different casinos. This was driven by the fact that operators wanted the winner to have won at THEIR casino, and the top players were VIP at many casinos, and each operator wanted these players to play their entry at their casino. The result was that players ended up with more than one entry.

Despite this, there were STILL over 2000 unallocated places at the end, and that's when US players COULD play.

The extra prize for making all the achievements is probably designed so that a player will make ALL their rebuys through the same casino, and will make LOADS of them too, as even if they can't get near the top of the leaderboard, they could still scoop the BIGGEST prize of all, the $2.43M worth of Gold Bullion.

Conveniently, it is possible that NO player will achieve this, and the prize will NOT be paid out, despite being a significant lure to players.

I already have one ticket, and one is enough with this prize structure. I will only compete in "feeders" that have a big cash prize, with a Grand Slam ticket as some throwaway extra perk.

 

[chayton]

still haven't had my question answered yet Can they or can't they?

You could PM Enzo and ask him - everyone here may have an opinion based on their own experience but I doubt everyone would agree and the only one who knows for sure is the guy running the show. But if he says no, would you believe him anyhow?

 

[jelsmith]

I can speak for at least the chat trivia games. I hosted the movie trivia for well over a year. Yes a lot of the same people won....did some of them google?....YES. There is no way to combat that. Another thing is some people are just faster at typing than others. I also had incidents where people with slower outdated computers couldnt see the photo as quickly as others so I added text questions as well. There was really no way to fix it so everyone was happy but there wasnt any cheating as I was the ONLY person who knew what films I had chosen.

 

[jod5413]

A lot of the people who win all the time are there all the time, so maybe that's it.

And there is the answer! I really believe a bunch of the 3Dice people are possibly stay at home people, for whatever reason. That allows them to be constantly at play at the tournaments.

It's a bit like the old ez board folks, lots of disabled and/or stay at home moms or dads. More power to them. Or it might be people at desk jobs and they play "on the sly" when they have a few minutes.

I personally do not have the patience or time to be on the puter all day and night. And, I am fairly sure 3Dice is legit and fair. Chalk it up to luck, good or bad.

 

[Brooklyn]

I see many of the same people winning all the time, but I feel it's because the same people are usually playing the tournaments. I mean, I am at 3dice a big chunk of the day while I am working etc etc. and there are the same people there day after day in chat. It's not that I think that 3dice is cheating on their tournaments, I just beleive that the same people win because the same people are playing.

As far as the chain trivia, I play it all of the time and I win a prize in the trivias often, but that doesn't mean I am cheating. Not once has someone PMd me the answer to the answer or vice versa.

 

[3mptyseat]

... I complain a LOT and I still can't win diddly.

I deposit a lot there, and while I rarely play the tourneys, variance is a cruel cruel mistress... When I hit, the chat room sees a lot of red, and when I go cold, I don't hit for days... I'm not saying they do not manipulate the RTP or the tourneys, bc I guess its possible, but I don't think what we have read here is evidence of too much more than than a lot of normal luck, and one day of really good luck... But again, wtf do I know?

3mpty
fightinduck @ 3dice

 

[funeral979]

I think I need to give credit where credit is due. My email was finally responded to 3 weeks later, and only because they saw this thread Some interesting numbers she did provide for me. I chose 8 players at random who I saw won alot of tournaments recently. 3 of them had won 25 or more in the past month (highest was 31). I am sure there were quite a few others but she only gave me figures for the 8 names I chose.

One can expect on average to win 1 out of 35 tournaments I believe it is. Now I am only guessing here, but I would have to say that even the most hardcore of these 3Dice tournament players play maybe 100 a week (roughly 15 a day....they do have to sleep at some point?) So 400 or so a month. And the same group of players are always winning 25-30 a month. You can do the math.....but the same people are winning more than they should be, all the time.

Last week I counted at least 7 players who won 8 or more tournaments........in a single week?!?! All the same people, week in, week out.

Anyways, im just beating a dead horse here, but there is something seriously wrong with the tournaments at 3Dice. These tournaments are supposedly one of my perks for being a depositing player. Needless to say, they don't make me feel too perky

Maybe I don't chat enough

It really feels like they would rather reward regular chatters as opposed to regular depositors. Unfortunately I would rather gamble than chat. So rather than continue to bitch about it, I think I am going to do what I probably should have done some time ago and take my money elsewhere

 

[Nifty29]

I think I need to give credit where credit is due. My email was finally responded to 3 weeks later, and only because they saw this thread Some interesting numbers she did provide for me. I chose 8 players at random who I saw won alot of tournaments recently. 3 of them had won 25 or more in the past month (highest was 31). I am sure there were quite a few others but she only gave me figures for the 8 names I chose.

One can expect on average to win 1 out of 35 tournaments I believe it is. Now I am only guessing here, but I would have to say that even the most hardcore of these 3Dice tournament players play maybe 100 a week (roughly 15 a day....they do have to sleep at some point?) So 400 or so a month. And the same group of players are always winning 25-30 a month. You can do the math.....but the same people are winning more than they should be, all the time.

Last week I counted at least 7 players who won 8 or more tournaments........in a single week?!?! All the same people, week in, week out.

Anyways, im just beating a dead horse here, but there is something seriously wrong with the tournaments at 3Dice. These tournaments are supposedly one of my perks for being a depositing player. Needless to say, they don't make me feel too perky

Maybe I don't chat enough

It really feels like they would rather reward regular chatters as opposed to regular depositors. Unfortunately I would rather gamble than chat. So rather than continue to bitch about it, I think I am going to do what I probably should have done some time ago and take my money elsewhere

Personally I cannot see the benefit in 3dice rigging tourneys, and dont believe for a second that they do.

The same people win through a combination of a large number of entries and some savvy strategies gleaned from those entries.

There is an easy way to find out. - enter 400 tourneys in a month and see how ya go.

 

[funeral979]

Personally I cannot see the benefit in 3dice rigging tourneys, and dont believe for a second that they do.

The same people win through a combination of a large number of entries and some savvy strategies gleaned from those entries.

There is an easy way to find out. - enter 400 tourneys in a month and see how ya go.

Well they want to keep their regular chatters happy spreading good cheer 24/7 in their chat room....what better way than to comp them thru little tourney wins? Hell if I know.

I still stand by my story.....12 hours after I send an email to Anna voicing my frustration over the tournaments, I win 5 in about 18 hours time. Then things go back to normal for me (2 or 3 a week if im lucky). Thats a hell of a coincidence. Maybe not proof that I know you crave to see Nifty.....but some kind of coincidence.

I actually wasn't going to say anything at first, as I thought maybe it was me and Anna's dirty little secret.....but she pulled the plug too quick.

Anyways im over it. Let them win em all. Im going to play out my last bronze tourney next week and say adios.

 

[Balky]

Its like playing slots. Sometimes no win in several weeks, sometimes several wins in one single day. If some people longterm have more wins than others, thats most probably due to a bigger number of entries. I am mostly not in chat and I am sure there is definitely no connection between participating in chat and the tournament results.
Having no win in hundreds of entries can be frustrating but hey, its free and we have nothing to lose. I rather play those tournaments than exceed my gaming budget.

B.

 

[funeral979]

Its like playing slots. Sometimes no win in several weeks, sometimes several wins in one single day. If some people longterm have more wins than others, thats most probably due to a bigger number of entries. I am mostly not in chat and I am sure there is definitely no connection between participating in chat and the tournament results.
Having no win in hundreds of entries can be frustrating but hey, its free and we have nothing to lose. I rather play those tournaments than exceed my gaming budget.

B.

I 100% agree. Sometimes you should get lucky and win a few a day, and sometimes you should have no wins maybe for a week or two. But this is just not the case at 3Dice. There are certain players who never go thru the dry spells. Always multiple wins every week.

I am tempted to insert silc's star theory here Wish I had a star by name in tourney play...

 

[Jasminebed]

I think it is possible that some people are just luckier than others, at least for a spell! According to your theory, I should be winning a lot more tourneys than I do!

There's at least one non-chatter that wins tourneys with great regularity, it's often remarked upon.

If they gave them to people that whined, there should be a few other players winning too!

Not just at 3Dice, but anywhere, if you don't feel you are getting a fair game, it's best to move on.

 

[rockycatt]

ive won a few turnys there the biggest was 200$ first place in the silver level i got a R F
to put me way ahead and i watched it like a hen on a egg

i love the tenner ones to me there like doing a crossword puzzle and you pretty much can tell right off if your in a great position because of the short stack

i bot in one and got the big hit on Aztec and like the silver level one i felt secure about my position

iv also lost more than ive won i dont like playing 2 or 3 day turny for a 10$ win but im shure
theres others that pass the time and chat away there

this thread makes me remember one night about a year ago i logged on to dice about 3am
i couldn't sleep , i mentioned it to the group i couldn't sleep but id probably be tired as hell in a couple hours

well Enzo must of read it and i got a pm to go to the cashier [from enzo] there was a 50.00
gift ther with no w/r , i then pm'd him back and asked why he gave me 50.00$

he said it will give you something to do fo a couple hours ... now that being said
i dont think that the establishment at dice is anything but straight up

they have even taken measures to quell any cheating like stopping the gamble feature in the tury;s and you must show a zero hit first before you can show a actual hit in chat hunt turnys

theres alway going to be a way to try to take advantage if theres a group cliqe but
it doesnt get any beter than 3 dice for integerity and staying on top of the needs of there playeres
im a player at 3 dice

P S Enzo isent the only one that works there its defenetly a team effort and we all know there first names and they know ours

 

[zap987]

One can expect on average to win 1 out of 35 tournaments I believe it is. Now I am only guessing here, but I would have to say that even the most hardcore of these 3Dice tournament players play maybe 100 a week (roughly 15 a day....they do have to sleep at some point?) So 400 or so a month. And the same group of players are always winning 25-30 a month. You can do the math.....but the same people are winning more than they should be, all the time.

This assumption is incorrect. If on average 35 players enter every tournament, then some people will a 5% or more chance to win while others will be close to 0%. Just as an example, in a Baccarat/War tournament, anyone that plays Baccarat instead of War has a very small chance to win just because of the table limits difference.

So what about the peak balance no gamble slot tournaments with one game allowed? Here the chance to win for each player will be much closer since there are no choices involved except bet size, some people do play less than max bet and reduce their chances for no good reason. Even in these no skill tournaments the chance to win will differ, the more spins you get the higher the chance to get that good hit that wins you the tournament. Go check any finished tournament of this type and look at the Total Stake column. Notice how the players that win more tournaments will generally have a much higher number here. If I can spin twice as much as many people in the tournament I have a lot higher chance to win compared to them.

 

[funeral979]

This assumption is incorrect. If on average 35 players enter every tournament, then some people will a 5% or more chance to win while others will be close to 0%. Just as an example, in a Baccarat/War tournament, anyone that plays Baccarat instead of War has a very small chance to win just because of the table limits difference.

So what about the peak balance no gamble slot tournaments with one game allowed? Here the chance to win for each player will be much closer since there are no choices involved except bet size, some people do play less than max bet and reduce their chances for no good reason. Even in these no skill tournaments the chance to win will differ, the more spins you get the higher the chance to get that good hit that wins you the tournament. Go check any finished tournament of this type and look at the Total Stake column. Notice how the players that win more tournaments will generally have a much higher number here. If I can spin twice as much as many people in the tournament I have a lot higher chance to win compared to them.

Actually, I am usually one of the highest wagerers in all the slot tournaments I enter. Unfortunately you wont be able to verify this as I am rarely even in the top 10 so my screenname wont be there. The majority of my wins are non slot tournaments, even though I enter more slot tourneys than non slot tourneys. Wonder why this is so?

 

[funeral979]

Looking over the last weeks tournament winners, I am still completely amazed.

I notice that no one from 3Dice has come in to comment on the skewed results of these tourneys.

If you just look at last weeks "free" tournaments (the non VIP ones that anyone can join), anyone should be hard pressed to not see something suspicious.

These non VIP tournaments are free for anyone, including non depositors. They typically have about 200 players in each one. So, that would be 60 of these tournaments in a month. On average you should expect to win one every 3-4 months. Keep in mind also that these particular tournament have just about 0 skill involved....they are all "peak balance", so it is not necessary to just sit on a win and hope it holds...just keep spinning. Further, these are 12 hours, so pc speed should not be an issue.

So on average one can expect to win one every 3 or 4 months (assuming 200 players....I have seen over 250 quite often).

Well its funny, there were 2 names (silvniki, zap987....maybe they would care to comment again) who won FOUR in the past week. There were also at least 3 others who won 2. Pretty impressive for random games???????????? Talk about beating the odds. And these are the same folks who win all the VIP tourneys as well. And a good 75% who win these non VIP tournaments are the same people who win over and over and over again in the VIP ones.

You would think that in these non VIP tournaments that you would see different names all the time winning, since it is a much more diverse group than "the usuals"...and a larger playing field. Plus you would assume that a majority of the VIPs would be busy with their tournaments.

But no.

Its the same group...winning way more than their fair share....and its not just a freak occurance...it happens all the time.

I enter just about all of the non VIP tournaments. I have never placed in a single one. I have made the top 10 maybe twice. And I have a pretty good grasp on which games to play....it doesn't really add up.

 

[3Dice]

Looking over the last weeks tournament winners, I am still completely amazed.

I notice that no one from 3Dice has come in to comment on the skewed results of these tourneys.

If you just look at last weeks "free" tournaments (the non VIP ones that anyone can join), anyone should be hard pressed to not see something suspicious.

These non VIP tournaments are free for anyone, including non depositors. They typically have about 200 players in each one. So, that would be 60 of these tournaments in a month. On average you should expect to win one every 3-4 months. Keep in mind also that these particular tournament have just about 0 skill involved....they are all "peak balance", so it is not necessary to just sit on a win and hope it holds...just keep spinning. Further, these are 12 hours, so pc speed should not be an issue.

So on average one can expect to win one every 3 or 4 months (assuming 200 players....I have seen over 250 quite often).

Well its funny, there were 2 names (silvniki, zap987....maybe they would care to comment again) who won FOUR in the past week. There were also at least 3 others who won 2. Pretty impressive for random games???????????? Talk about beating the odds. And these are the same folks who win all the VIP tourneys as well. And a good 75% who win these non VIP tournaments are the same people who win over and over and over again in the VIP ones.

You would think that in these non VIP tournaments that you would see different names all the time winning, since it is a much more diverse group than "the usuals"...and a larger playing field. Plus you would assume that a majority of the VIPs would be busy with their tournaments.

But no.

Its the same group...winning way more than their fair share....and its not just a freak occurance...it happens all the time.

I enter just about all of the non VIP tournaments. I have never placed in a single one. I have made the top 10 maybe twice. And I have a pretty good grasp on which games to play....it doesn't really add up.

Hi Guys,

We've seen these posts more than once .. and investigation has always revealed nothing to be wrong with our tournament system.

So lets add things up one more time .. below are some tournament statistics for funeral, zap and silvniki for 2011.

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zap987

total tournaments played in 2011 : 536
average stake / tourney : $ 12935
average total winnnings / tourney : $ 12379 (95.70% rtp)
percentage of tourneys with highest peak : 2.99%
total nr of wins : 29 (5.4% of tourney's played).

silvniki

total tournaments played in 2011 : 1667
average stake / tourney : $ 13317
average total winnnings / tourney : $ 12663 (95.08% rtp)
percentage of tourneys with highest peak : 2.82%
total nr of wins : 81 (4.8% of tourney's played).

funeral979

total tournaments played in 2011 : 906
average stake / tourney : $ 12990
average total winnnings / tourney : $ 12548 (96.59% rtp)
percentage of tourneys with highest peak : 3.31%
total nr of wins : 41 (4.52% of tourney's played).

---------------

I think the numbers speak quite clearly .. but allow me to add that funeral's response is actually quite common and natural even. It's just the way we are wired - you get beaten by someone and you'll start seeing their name popup all over the place - it doesn't really do that - its just the way our perception works. Even a single day of tournaments means hundreds of names in the highscore lists and we are simply not capabale of memorising all that - so our brain picks out those things that it recognizes.

It's an easy trap to fall for - and we all do it to a certain extent - it helps to be aware of it but even that is no guarantee .. you do have to watch out that a self imposed idea like this doesn't get into the way of fun tho. And - most definitly - don't start accusing people or insinuating cheating on the end of other players or the casino without numbers to back it up.

Funeral, I hope your luck in tourney's continues to be as good as it is - and I hope you wont block yourself from appreciating it - you're winning more than the average number of tournaments - often a sign that you are indeed picking the right games and playing at the right stakes - keep it up

Kindest regards,

Enzo

 

[funeral979]

Thanks for the reply Enzo.

But with all due respect, my last post was in regards to the non VIP tourneys. Not silv and zaps performance in all tourneys.

At any rate, im not sure how "the numbers speak quite clearly" apply here when we have only done a comparison with 2 other players (and I did have the lowest % here).
Of course I don't expect you to go pull everyones numbers as I am sure it is time consuming...but I don't think much can be gathered from the small sample you provided.

 

[3Dice]

Well its funny, there were 2 names (silvniki, zap987....maybe they would care to comment again) who won FOUR in the past week. There were also at least 3 others who won 2. Pretty impressive for random games???????????? Talk about beating the odds. And these are the same folks who win all the VIP tourneys as well.

It seems to me that you quite clearly defined the sample here. Please take a second and consider that silvniki and zap987 are players just like yourself, who play in our tournaments just like yourself, who win about the same amount of tournaments as you do, who have in fact had a lower RTP in tourney than you did. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if either of them made a post with insinuations that you are cheating (or we are cheating in your advantage) - especially the "maybe they would care to comment again" .. is very rude and you could trust in the fact that a post like that towards you would make me step in and defend you.

Thanks for the reply Enzo.

But with all due respect, my last post was in regards to the non VIP tourneys. Not silv and zaps performance in all tourneys.

At any rate, im not sure how "the numbers speak quite clearly" apply here when we have only done a comparison with 2 other players (and I did have the lowest % here).
Of course I don't expect you to go pull everyones numbers as I am sure it is time consuming...but I don't think much can be gathered from the small sample you provided.

The sample I provided you with includes the area you are suspicious of. This is how you have to do statistics. You can't sit at a roulette wheel for half an hour and when the same number drops in twice in a row say "I want statistics on these last two spins". What those numbers teach us is that the very players you acuse have numbers extremely alike your own.

We continuously run statistics on our tournaments - you can rest assured that even the smallest anomalies there are investigated thoroughly. If we find problems or simply see unbalances - we fix it (e.g. introducing 'no gamble' tournaments etc) - I can however not fix a problem that doesn't exist.

The same player winning 3 or 4 freeroll tourney's in the same week is perfectly within expectations. It wont happen every week - but some weeks it will. All I can do is show you that these players are winning the same amount of tourney's you are.

Regards,

Enzo

 

[Nifty29]

Thankyou Enzo.

It seems the stats speak for themselves, and confirm what most people thought - that the tourneys are not 'rigged' in any way.

We appreciate you taking the time to set the record straight.

 

[zap987]

Keep in mind also that these particular tournament have just about 0 skill involved....

For the non-vip tourneys, the simple fact is that most of the 200 people playing either have no clue what they are doing or just don't care about winning and their chance to win is very very small. Just join chat for a bit and see how many times it will show someone has had a "big" win on some slot in the free all games tournament.

Also it would be good if you got your facts straight instead of trying to mislead people.

So on average one can expect to win one every 3 or 4 months (assuming 200 players....I have seen over 250 quite often).

This is only true if you only count first place but in your next statement you say I won four tournaments when I only actually won one, the rest were 2nd and 3rd places. With 60 tournaments/month that would make it 180 winners/month. Winning 4 in one week is still quite lucky but that's just variance.

If your winning % is lower in the long run I can guarantee you have ways to improve it by playing smarter. As an example, in the peak all games tournament it is better once you get a good score (I'd say about 30000+) and first place to stop playing and wait for someone to take first place from you rather than keep playing until you reach 0. The reason is that once you are only fighting a few people for top spots and have a set score to beat the optimal games to play and ways to bet changes.

 

[funeral979]

I was not misleading anyone....I got the facts from the previous 7 days winners and went from there. Not misleading at all.

And you got prizes in 4 of those tournaments, so I would say that you "won" 4.

Anyhow, Enzo, I was not trying to sound rude at all with my remark towards zap. Sorry if it came out that way. I was just asking him to comment as he made a comment directed towards me earlier in the thread about how I (or 'people') should learn how to play the tournaments better instead of complaing about them (which I could also construe as rude).

 

[funeral979]

Thankyou Enzo.

It seems the stats speak for themselves, and confirm what most people thought - that the tourneys are not 'rigged' in any way.

We appreciate you taking the time to set the record straight.

Thanks for your reply Nifty.

There were virtually no stats given, just for 2 players and myself....hardly enough to 'set the record straight'.

I go over the past winners of 3Dice tournaments on a regular basis, so I armed with a bit more data than you. I don't just post stuff for the hell of it

 

[zap987]

These non VIP tournaments are free for anyone, including non depositors. They typically have about 200 players in each one. So, that would be 60 of these tournaments in a month. On average you should expect to win one every 3-4 months. Keep in mind also that these particular tournament have just about 0 skill involved....they are all "peak balance", so it is not necessary to just sit on a win and hope it holds...just keep spinning. Further, these are 12 hours, so pc speed should not be an issue.

So on average one can expect to win one every 3 or 4 months (assuming 200 players....I have seen over 250 quite often).

The misleading part is that first you state that on average you can expect to win one every 3-4 months which according to your math is only correct when you consider first place, then in your next paragraph state that we won 4 last week. If you had used the same criteria for calculating expected wins it would be about 1 win per month.

I'm not directing my comments about playing better at any specific person, I don't care enough to analyze tournaments to figure out who plays well and who makes mistakes. What I do know is that the vast majority of people playing in tournaments have very small chances to win at all because of how they play which in turn gives the people that play better a much higher chance to win.

 

[Nifty29]

Thanks for your reply Nifty.

There were virtually no stats given, just for 2 players and myself....hardly enough to 'set the record straight'.

I go over the past winners of 3Dice tournaments on a regular basis, so I armed with a bit more data than you. I don't just post stuff for the hell of it

You can play 'my hotdog is bigger than your hotdog' all you want, but nothing you have posted goes even close to being a step toward backing up your accusation that 3dice cheats - now you can try and deny that you are accusing them of cheating because you didn't say those exact words, but everyone knows that is exactly what you're getting at. If your purpose is something different I would love to hear it.

Maybe you should enter more tourneys or practice better strategies instead of sinking the boots into the casino.....I mean, they're FREE after all, so you aren't out of pocket, and nobody forces you to enter.

You provide 'odds' of winning tourneys (which don't take skill and luck etc into account so aren't accurate). Even if they WERE accurate, there will be examples of people beating those odds and being beaten by the same odds....surely you're not saying everyone should win the same amount of times?

You said that Enzo can't base his case on just 2 players? Well, they were the examples you gave so aren't you doing the same thing? If you want to broaden the specimen, why not pm Enzo with a dozen other examples and he can post the results using 'player 1, player 2) for anonymity. If it proves you're right, then you have my attention.

I also don't see how using 'cheating tourneys' to comp regulars makes any sense at all. Why wouldn't they just comp them? Nobody would even know. Why make it so obvious??

Sorry, but the more I re-read your posts, the more I just think it's frustration at being beaten or just sour grapes.

 

[funeral979]

You know, even though you choose to reply to me and most others with that big chip on your shoulder attitude, I never get personal with you...and I believe we have hashed this out at least once via pm in a civil attitude....so don't see why you have to act like an ass with me. Don't know where you get off with the my hotdog is bigger than your hotdog. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I always try to treat you with respect even though you don't show it to me or 90% ofthe other forum members.

Should we just assume you are right all the time and anytime you show up in a thread we should just close it as you have "spoken".

Anyways.

I am not frustrated, and its not sour grapes. If you reread my initial post......I don't care if I don't win any....I just want to believe that some people are not given an "edge" over other players. And by edge, I do not mean playing correctly or playing the right games etc etc etc. Most people after playing a few know what games to play and when to stop.

And as far as basing his case on 2 players, those 2 were not the subject of my initial post, but an additional observation I made.

And my 'purpose' is really just a suggestion. Again, if you reread my initial post....The tourneys are a "perk" for VIP/depositing players. And after going over the tourney winners week after week....a small % of the players are the only ones benefiting from these tourneys. So why not make things a little more fair....such as capping tourney wins to x amount per week, or offering more deposit matches and cutting down on some of the tourneys and or chat games?

At any rate, the whole crux of this thread in the first place is the unlikely chain of events that led me to win 5 tournaments in an 18 hour period.

Finally @ zap, my mistake. As there are 3 prizes per freeroll tourney, you are correct in that my math was off in that regard.

 

[Nifty29]

You know, even though you choose to reply to me and most others with that big chip on your shoulder attitude, I never get personal with you...and I believe we have hashed this out at least once via pm in a civil attitude....so don't see why you have to act like an ass with me. Don't know where you get off with the my hotdog is bigger than your hotdog. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I always try to treat you with respect even though you don't show it to me or 90% ofthe other forum members.

Should we just assume you are right all the time and anytime you show up in a thread we should just close it as you have "spoken".

Anyways.

I am not frustrated, and its not sour grapes. If you reread my initial post......I don't care if I don't win any....I just want to believe that some people are not given an "edge" over other players. And by edge, I do not mean playing correctly or playing the right games etc etc etc. Most people after playing a few know what games to play and when to stop.

And as far as basing his case on 2 players, those 2 were not the subject of my initial post, but an additional observation I made.

And my 'purpose' is really just a suggestion. Again, if you reread my initial post....The tourneys are a "perk" for VIP/depositing players. And after going over the tourney winners week after week....a small % of the players are the only ones benefiting from these tourneys. So why not make things a little more fair....such as capping tourney wins to x amount per week, or offering more deposit matches and cutting down on some of the tourneys and or chat games?

At any rate, the whole crux of this thread in the first place is the unlikely chain of events that led me to win 5 tournaments in an 18 hour period.

Finally @ zap, my mistake. As there are 3 prizes per freeroll tourney, you are correct in that my math was off in that regard.

I wasn't being disrespectful and I would ask you to point out where you think that I was.

The hotdog comment was related to you saying you are 'armed with more data than me', and the irrelevance of the comment given I was relying on Enzo's data and not my own, with some common sense added in.

Enzo has ALL the relevant data and has taken the time to provide it for you, but it is clear that you feel the whole tourney system is rigged and fixable (I'll provide quotes if required) and nothing anyone says or does is going to make you think otherwise.

If being disrespectful to other members means asking for proof when someone states "xyz casino is rigged", and calling them out when none is provided, then yeah I'm guilty as charged. However, it is all about perception and selective memory when people make comments like "you are disrespectful and have a chip on your shoulder 90% of the time" as this is so far from the truth it's actually funny.

I also think its interesting that you personally insult and disrespect me with the above comments whilst saying that I disrespect and insult other members. Who's calling what pot which color now?

Anyway, let's not allow the facts to spoil a good rant.

 

[jod5413]

Oh, for Heaven's sake. Can we please take all that excess testosterone and bottle it to sell?

We have people talking life or death about tournaments that are, in most situations, free.

It ain't brain surgery, children, ya know??

 

[incrediblestuff]

HA

Funny thing, ive thought the same thing more then once funeral, and i had mentally added you to that `winner list`... just saying, i always ease up on the `suspicions´ when the time comes and my luck changes again.

I´ve also brought this up in chat, and i posted something similar about the MG tournaments, but they are a diff story i.m.o. the thing to me is quite clear, its all down to luck, if i truly believed otherwise i wouldnt be there so often, and certainly not play there in real.

You can try it all, the `perfect strategies` in the table games, the late entry sneak attacks in slots, the lowering your bet when in lead, even the private messaging of the one that is threatening to pass you

Plainly put, sometimes they work, sometimes they dont, added up the fact that always the house wins the most, and only the lucky players get the big one, which is paid for by the rest of the players.

Thats true in realplay and tourney, and i do believe that both are fair and square (and the same)

Also i realized that for instance me putting you on that mental list of winners of more then fair shares, is down to the point enzo brought up earlier, plain psychology.
In my heart i know that like you im one of the luckier ones.
Just be gratefull for what you DO win, and dont let losing streaks get to you if possible, especially not with free money.

(i need to remind myself that too, on a regular bases ^^, those high variance games can enlarge those effects ya know, good luck !)

 

[azzagirt]

Imo ,it's all about the cosmic effect of karma...simple..If you are at a state in life when all is going well then it comes back 10 fold but on the other side if you are at a time where nothing goes right then you can be darn sure you will have a run of non luck..I now know when my luck is changing and I am learning to deposit and play accordingly... This theory applies to me anyway...

 

[prindi]

Just another crumb...I totally get what your saying Funeral...I have felt the same way in the past on some of the things that you mentioned ...on the flip side regarding the free tourneys... how many of those players do you think play to the end? How many do you think join the tourneys...spin for a small amount of time and or even an hour if they get that far and just give up without reaching the score that they might of if they spent the time to get there? I think you will find the regulars take it as far as they can. I think that a new player or one that is not as experienced in the tourneys do not spend the time that the regulars do. Just my thoughts...

 

[BMWSTACK]

It nice that they put free tournaments on. Who cares what happens. Its free after all. I used to have a similiar problem at the grocery store. When I go to get my free samples of cake at the bakery section I always seem to get the smallest piece with the least amount of icing. I have learned to live with it though, im not having to pay for it after all.

 

[becksfun]

i agree

It nice that they put free tournaments on. Who cares what happens. Its free after all. I used to have a similiar problem at the grocery store. When I go to get my free samples of cake at the bakery section I always seem to get the smallest piece with the least amount of icing. I have learned to live with it though, im not having to pay for it after all.

I would have to agree. I admit when I first started playing here I had the same thought about the same people winning all the time. However, since then I have won a few of my own...not alot but enough and what Enzo said about hearing and seeing the same names all the time makes a huge amount of sense to me. I think the fact that to me funerals name would have been one i would have thought about winning all the time proves it. The bottom line is it IS gambling and most of us at one time or another feel we are not doing as good as we should.....except when we are winning that is! The tournaments are fun and free and to win one is just a bonus....I never really expect to win and then I'm not disappointed when I don't but thrilled if I do!!!

Hope your luck improves funeral and good luck to all!

 

[wamto]

3dice

Well they want to keep their regular chatters happy spreading good cheer 24/7 in their chat room....what better way than to comp them thru little tourney wins? Hell if I know.

I still stand by my story.....12 hours after I send an email to Anna voicing my frustration over the tournaments, I win 5 in about 18 hours time. Then things go back to normal for me (2 or 3 a week if im lucky). Thats a hell of a coincidence. Maybe not proof that I know you crave to see Nifty.....but some kind of coincidence.

I actually wasn't going to say anything at first, as I thought maybe it was me and Anna's dirty little secret.....but she pulled the plug too quick.

Anyways im over it. Let them win em all. Im going to play out my last bronze tourney next week and say adios.

I.ve tried and tried to understand why the same people win and win the tournments. I.ve been a tournament player their for years. LOL five in one day that's awesome guess you made the list that day. I do have to say I did win three once in the same day. I've love o figure out how the same ones always win. I play all day since my illness has taken my career I loved so much so it helps to fill a little void. It really does seem like the winners that win a lot go in cycles. I just hope to be one of them one day. Maybe it's a fluke maybe not but I does get aggravating when your finaaly in the lead but can look at the list and realize your not going to win because you can pick out the name behind you that will win. That happens daily.

 

[maphesto]

I.ve tried and tried to understand why the same people win and win the tournments. I.ve been a tournament player their for years. LOL five in one day that's awesome guess you made the list that day. I do have to say I did win three once in the same day. I've love o figure out how the same ones always win. I play all day since my illness has taken my career I loved so much so it helps to fill a little void. It really does seem like the winners that win a lot go in cycles. I just hope to be one of them one day. Maybe it's a fluke maybe not but I does get aggravating when your finaaly in the lead but can look at the list and realize your not going to win because you can pick out the name behind you that will win. That happens daily.

Some people manage to cash out, some people don't... I think Enzo once mentioned that tournament winners often have skill when it comes to pick game and betsize compared with bankroll and time. It sounds pretty correct.

I am not one of those who win tournaments often, but it happens. Once I had a really good win at that surf board slot and yesterday it was the Arctic one.

 

[rena35]

I have won the tournaments often could have cashed out once but didn't (my fault).

 

[bowlingbob]

I.ve tried and tried to understand why the same people win and win the tournments. I.ve been a tournament player their for years. LOL five in one day that's awesome guess you made the list that day. I do have to say I did win three once in the same day. I've love o figure out how the same ones always win. I play all day since my illness has taken my career I loved so much so it helps to fill a little void. It really does seem like the winners that win a lot go in cycles. I just hope to be one of them one day. Maybe it's a fluke maybe not but I does get aggravating when your finaaly in the lead but can look at the list and realize your not going to win because you can pick out the name behind you that will win. That happens daily.

Wait...didn't you win the top prize of $1,000 a few months back in a $1,500 sponsored tourney. I would say you are very lucky when it comes to tournaments. Maybe not on a daily basis but that 1k is more than most people win in a year playing the vip tournaments regularly. I have more of an issue with same household accounts that also use their spouses account to play in the same tournaments. I know for a fact there are several doing this. They have twice as great odds of winning than the person only able to play one.

 

[wamto]

reply

Yes I am usually a very lucky person but he tournments really do seem to have favorite. when I won that one I had not one win in over a week. I am lucky to win 3 out of 100 played. Usually in a tourney I can be in the lead and look down the list and know who will take me out. that's why I think it runs in cycle's even you couldn't win for weeks and right now your taking over. Not mad just pointing out hat I see. Please remember this is only what I see and means absoulty nothing. I love 3dice and in no way think their is anything going on this is just how he ball rolls.

 

[cpdnd31]

I was gonna comment but I can't find my tin foil hat. ROFL