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20% of gamblers attempt suicide — why don't we take the addiction more seriously?

maxd

maxd

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Trekkie Shield Meister CM Veteran (10yr+)
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Article at BigThink.com (by a non-gambler) on the psychology and sociology of gambling addiction and casinos:
As Chris Hedges writes in his latest book, America: The Farewell Tour, 20 percent of gambling addicts attempt suicide, the highest percentage of all addictions. Though the opioid crisis is
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, there are
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combating it. Cigarette manufacturers are required to post warnings in large fonts alongside photos of diseased lungs. Smartphone addiction
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, but we haven't had the courage as a society to face that one yet. From alcohol to sex, at least nominal attempts at curbing behavior are attempted. For the most part, gambling escapes this fate.
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Seems a rather high figure. I mean what is the general term applied here, anyone that's ever gambled? Heavy gamblers? Dotty playing Bingo on Fridays? Sweeping percentage to claim 1 in 5...

And the article went into the realms of feewings and non-rationale, so essentially an opinion-piece:

If you look at the way a casino is designed, and you remember that Trump is a designer of many casinos, including his non-casino properties, they follow the same design logic of disorientation and trying to sweep people away from themselves, away from rationality, away from a position where they have clear lines of sight and can act as decision-making subjects."

That bloody Trump again :laugh:
 
At a cursory glance I'm guessing that should read 20% of AMERICAN gamblers.
For starters, you can't smoke in our casinos, our games have mandated warning labels, and you couldnt flag a hostess here with six arms and air traffic cones :P
 
And is it causation or correlation.
Is it gamblers off committing suicide because of gambling, or people with mental health or other issues take readily to gambling or have a combination of addictions.
 
This is no surprise to me. I've heard for the last 25 years that suicide amongst gambling addicts are really high, and the highest compared to other addictions.
I do find a change in the way people are looking at it now though, at least in Sweden. It's a lot more help to get now than it was 20 years ago.
 
Very misleading article.

Starts with the heading 20% of gamblers attempt suicide.

Then it talks about 20% of problem gamblers which is one hell of a difference from 20% of gamblers.

Since the majority of adults gamble in one way or another it is totally yet another non gambler on a high horse about gambling.
 
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For me gambling addiction in relation to a problem is almost like crime addiction in relation to robberies.
I mean it exists, it is complicated and it is a problem. But the bigger issue, the elephant in the room, is the money. It is all about the money.
Because very few people (if any) have perfect control. Loss of control and money problems are easy. Can happen in a night. Addiction is different.

I bet most suicides are related to financial problems. If you don't have money it's easy to lose everything.

Once a minister of finance wanted to impose a mandatory limit on how much you can lose in a day. There wasn't even a discussion about it. All media wanted to crucify him for "killing investments" and "loss of hundreds thousands jobs" and he was removed.
 
I agree that the article is very misleading. Gamblers and problem gamblers are two very different beasts. Those with gambling problems are often the same folk who have a propensity to have an addictive personality. We all know folk who have gone from one type of addiction to another. Some addictions can be concurrent.
For that reason not only is his conclusion that 20% of gamblers attempt suicide is flawed but a conclusion that 20% of problem gamblers attempt suicide is flawed.

If he said 20% of folk with an addictive personality attempt suicide then that may need to be taken more seriously.

Back later after I locate my jar of evo-stick
 
Very misleading and simplistic indeed. He's talking about actually attempting suicide... so if you have 1000 people on casino floor, 200 already tried to hang themselves at some stage? Don't think so.
 
I think many of you are missing the fact that the guy who wrote this article have taken some facts from a book and other facts from other research. Like journalists do.
He is more or less just asking why we don't take suicide among gambling addicts more serious.

He did a miss in the title though, if he even wrote that himself, but the text in the article is correct and include the word addict :)
 
nikantw said:
For me gambling addiction in relation to a problem is almost like crime addiction in relation to robberies.
I mean it exists, it is complicated and it is a problem. But the bigger issue, the elephant in the room, is the money. It is all about the money.
Because very few people (if any) have perfect control. Loss of control and money problems are easy. Can happen in a night. Addiction is different.

I bet most suicides are related to financial problems. If you don't have money it's easy to lose everything.

Once a minister of finance wanted to impose a mandatory limit on how much you can lose in a day. There wasn't even a discussion about it. All media wanted to crucify him for "killing investments" and "loss of hundreds thousands jobs" and he was removed.
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Can agree, if someone is risking much money for a lucky life-changing win and it is not working they way to just give up totally is not far away.

Especially when the sessions going bad people tend to go crazy and depositing multiple times in a row. I always tell people to set a limit, it can be a high limit but at least set one. I have often daily limits around 20-175 € this helps me to not get tempted and often I self exclude for 24 hours or 7-14 days from certain websites so I have always just one or two casinos where I play. I still think that we need a global system, so people can not register in a new casino and ruin their life.

(We all know that responsible gambling is not really done with heart, it is just to show "look we doing something" but nothing that would be a complete solution)
 
The industry could nip problem gambling in the bud but they purposely skirt around the issue because funnily enough, it's these problem gamblers that provide them with a large slice of income.

I still believe going along the lines of SoW and RG but less draconian, would be mandatory deposit limits upon signup and subject to review after a few months. It works for all other financial institutions whereby you build up credit etc

In this industry, you get the unlimited credit options and then everyone wonders why players can't control their spending? Which then leads to all manner of personal problems
 
My ex was one of those statistics, and I believe the 20% is a correct figure. It could even be higher, but due to the shame of it, not all numbers will be reported. His was horse racing, and was before I met him, but he was very close to it one night. When he went to OLG's gambling resource, they just asked a few questions and gave him numbers to call.
 
sufferinsilence said:
20% of gambling addicts having suicidal thoughts at one point would sound more realistic to me but I haven't done any research into it. 1 out of 5 attempting it just seems like a really big amount of people... Scary really if it's correct :eek2:
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I live in a city that has a casino, with the river right behind it. One of my friends work security there and told me that at least once a month they get a jumper, but its ALWAYS kept hush hush. :(
 
I work in a doctor's surgery and the amount of men who feel suicidal or have attempted it is quite shocking it isn't unusual to have a call at least one call a week from someone who is depressed and see notes on men who have thought about it, it is far higher than women I can't recall the last time I spoke to a woman who was suicidal but males, we have a 16 yr old who is thinking about it, a 36 yr old who jumped off a bridge, I spoke to a man last week who admitted he was thinking about it.

It makes me feel down to think there are men of all ages thinking like this, maybe it's the current pro female word we live in being told about equality making men feel devalued but something is very wrong at the moment in the male community.
 
steveh35 said:
I work in a doctor's surgery and the amount of men who feel suicidal or have attempted it is quite shocking it isn't unusual to have a call at least one call a week from someone who is depressed and see notes on men who have thought about it, it is far higher than women I can't recall the last time I spoke to a woman who was suicidal but males, we have a 16 yr old who is thinking about it, a 36 yr old who jumped off a bridge, I spoke to a man last week who admitted he was thinking about it.

It makes me feel down to think there are men of all ages thinking like this, maybe it's the current pro female word we live in being told about equality making men feel devalued but something is very wrong at the moment in the male community.
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:(
 
steveh35 said:
but something is very wrong at the moment in the male community.
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I suspect it's always been there - we were always just discouraged about speaking of our feelings :)
 
dionysus said:
I suspect it's always been there - we were always just discouraged about speaking of our feelings :)
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I don't think so in 4 and a half years working there I have not seen as many men talking about it or admitting it as now, there has certainly been a change in last 6 months to a year. Maybe I don't get as many females admitting it as they tend not to talk to blokes about there health as much.
 
steveh35 said:
I work in a doctor's surgery and the amount of men who feel suicidal or have attempted it is quite shocking it isn't unusual to have a call at least one call a week from someone who is depressed and see notes on men who have thought about it, it is far higher than women I can't recall the last time I spoke to a woman who was suicidal but males, we have a 16 yr old who is thinking about it, a 36 yr old who jumped off a bridge, I spoke to a man last week who admitted he was thinking about it.

It makes me feel down to think there are men of all ages thinking like this, maybe it's the current pro female word we live in being told about equality making men feel devalued but something is very wrong at the moment in the male community.
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My two daughters have informed me that something like 70% of students at their Universities where on some form of medication for anxiety and/or depression"

I have no idea if this has any baring on numbers or not,but. Given how difficult it has become these days with being granted extra help via personal independence payments is it possible that some people use their emotional state as a means to obtain a higher amount of benefits?
 
We also had a 14 yr old boy who told the doctor he had had suicidal thoughts which is a difficult age as you cannot give children anti depressants without the child being throughly monitored, in our surgery we do not give antidepressants to people under 18 and children cannot be referred to adult counselling services they have to go through CAHMS and wait for referral. Sad to see children admitting to a doctor that they have considered such a thing as suicide and the options are limited for the child.
 
geordiecolin said:
My two daughters have informed me that something like 70% of students at their Universities where on some form of medication for anxiety and/or depression"

I have no idea if this has any baring on numbers or not,but. Given how difficult it has become these days with being granted extra help via personal independence payments is it possible that some people use their emotional state as a means to obtain a higher amount of benefits?
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There's definitey those as milk the system and use every blue mood to proclaim depression and anxiety.
But I think also, days and lives are more stressful, pressures greater, and more true diagnoses have come to surface that were merely written off
 
dionysus said:
I suspect it's always been there - we were always just discouraged about speaking of our feelings :)
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Quite clearly a result of this mangled wave of Feminism taking hold and painting a picture that men are shit, women aren't equal to but better in every way. Watch any advert and it's the man as the bumbling idiot and the 'strong woman' not only taking charge, but purposely humiliating them. Even Gillette ads are sermonizing about toxic masculinity and that men are inherently bad and sexual predators in the making.

The whole media narrative is one of bashing men, less about empowering women. It's revenge time as far as they're concerned, so it's little wonder men today are being emasculated and being turned into saps.

I mean just look at your PM, Justine, and his 'People-kind' speech :eek2::puke:
 
goatwack said:
Quite clearly a result of this mangled wave of Feminism taking hold and painting a picture that men are shit, women aren't equal to but better in every way. Watch any advert and it's the man as the bumbling idiot and the 'strong woman' not only taking charge, but purposely humiliating them. Even Gillette ads are sermonizing about toxic masculinity and that men are inherently bad and sexual predators in the making.

The whole media narrative is one of bashing men, less about empowering women. It's revenge time as far as they're concerned, so it's little wonder men today are being emasculated and being turned into saps.

I mean just look at your PM, Justine, and his 'People-kind' speech :eek2::puke:
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like anything, everything in moderation.
Things can be taken too far and extreme, but some good things have also come to light
 
goatwack said:
Quite clearly a result of this mangled wave of Feminism taking hold ....
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As tempting as it may be to use that as the take-away message of men's current self-harm issues I respectfully suggest that there may be a lot more to it than that. As a counter example women have been devalued in societies across the globe for a very long time and yet they aren't known to form "I wanna top myself" queues.

Perhaps it's got more to do with old, male-dominant societal values being eroded (at least here in the West) and thus leaving a vacuum where many men feel at a loss in terms of life's purpose and/or direction. Not unlike, for example, the "God is Dead" movement of 100 years ago or so where the reaction in a fair portion of society wasn't hugely different. But people adapt, their world is restructured and life (for most) goes on.

I personally don't see the evil spectre in modern feminism that others do. Giving equality, safety and respect to any marginalized portion of society (assuming they are generally non-violent, law-abiding members) is progress IMO. Hate and oppression never made the world a better place.
 
maxd said:
As tempting as it may be to use that as the take-away message of men's current self-harm issues I respectfully suggest that there may be a lot more to it than that. As a counter example women have been devalued in societies across the globe for a very long time and yet they aren't known to form "I wanna top myself" queues.

Perhaps it's got more to do with old, male-dominant societal values being eroded (at least here in the West) and thus leaving a vacuum where many men feel at a loss in terms of life's purpose and/or direction. Not unlike, for example, the "God is Dead" movement of 100 years ago or so where the reaction in a fair portion of society wasn't hugely different. But people adapt, their world is restructured and life (for most) goes on.

I personally don't see the evil spectre in modern feminism that others do. Giving equality, safety and respect to any marginalized portion of society (assuming they are generally non-violent, law-abiding members) is progress IMO. Hate and oppression never made the world a better place.
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That's fine, we have differing opinions on it and that's fine too.

This modern interpretation of Feminism (5th or 6th wave, I forget) stopped being about equality of the sexes and has transcended into plain old man-hating. It's fairly apparent everywhere you look, it's hardly subtle, and it's the zeitgeist narrative forced upon young people especially.

No one's talking about Feminism in the traditional sense, because we already had that with the foundations of First Wave Feminism such as giving women the right to vote when they were quite clearly oppressed. That was a different time and today's Feminism isn't that.

Women in Western society have long held many privileges that it's become a hate-fest as to what to criticize men for next, whether it's 'man-spreading', 'mansplaining', 'toxic masculinity' or whatever else, whilst women are being portrayed as Superwomen that can do no wrong. It's a thing, and it's everywhere right now, so so much for that.

Meanwhile, these modern Feminists go AWOL when it comes to championing REAL oppressed women in developing countries, think FGM, women being raped and then found guilty by 'law' and thusly killed etc. So much for progressive movements and quelling hate, I guess that list isn't all-encompassing after all!
 
maxd said:
As tempting as it may be to use that as the take-away message of men's current self-harm issues I respectfully suggest that there may be a lot more to it than that. As a counter example women have been devalued in societies across the globe for a very long time and yet they aren't known to form "I wanna top myself" queues.

Perhaps it's got more to do with old, male-dominant societal values being eroded (at least here in the West) and thus leaving a vacuum where many men feel at a loss in terms of life's purpose and/or direction. Not unlike, for example, the "God is Dead" movement of 100 years ago or so where the reaction in a fair portion of society wasn't hugely different. But people adapt, their world is restructured and life (for most) goes on.

I personally don't see the evil spectre in modern feminism that others do. Giving equality, safety and respect to any marginalized portion of society (assuming they are generally non-violent, law-abiding members) is progress IMO. Hate and oppression never made the world a better place.
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I respect all of the points that you have highlighted but old fashioned testosterone also has to play a part until society feels fit to remove that from men's makeup
 
goatwack said:
... Women in Western society have long held many privileges that it's become a hate-fest ...
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While it's obvious that any good thing taken too far often becomes a lot less good I simply don't see any real evidence for this "terrorized by women" thing. But I reckon that's what "agree to disagree" was invented for and so be it.

geordiecolin said:
... but old fashioned testosterone also has to play a part until society feels fit to remove that from men's makeup
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IMO hormones are no excuse for being an asshole. I'd say better behaviour is a societal thing rather than a body chemistry thing.

That said it occurs to me that we've wandered somewhat off the topic, the feminism/testosterone thing is probably best continued in the Attic (if needs be).
 
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I think because we're not putting anything chemical into our body like alcohol , nicotine , heroin then it's seen more as a choice than addiction . It's a blurred line for when something moves from choice to addictive behaviour .
Also I think the word "addiction" is overused . Sure if someone loses his house and all his savings because of gambling then people will clearly describe him as an addict . But there's somewhat functional addicts who believe they're doing it out of choice and will get upset if confronted with the fact that they are addicts even though they know they are not really in control
I used to work at a warehouse (exciting job) pretty much on minimum wage and get my wages on friday and by saturday morning I was always broke after going to the bookies and then pub . I was definitely an addict and oftentimes it was pretty depressing being in the same situation week in week out. Thing is I didn't have a lot to lose financially and it was just a week until I got my wages again so I could cope with it
Its facing the losses which pushes people to suicide I think , not the situation they are in but what they have lost . You get caught up in chasing losses and whilst you are still gambling it sort of feels ok because there's still a chance . But when you reach the end and there's no more chance and you have to face the losses then that can be overwhelming and make you do stupid things like jump whereas if you could take that person and lock them in a room for a few days they'd come to terms with the loss and be able to face the future
 
incrediblestuff said:
Hmm.. always a bit skeptical with such articles, especially nowadays. I bet it is not correct, at least not 20% of all gamblers, maybe sooner 20% of all problem gamblers..
There's a distinct difference. But i haven't read the article...
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Careful, we will have you on suicide watch...
 
dionysus said:
I suspect it's always been there - we were always just discouraged about speaking of our feelings :)
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Men are the most oppressed folk on the planet. Highest unemployment, suicide, depression to name a few.
Also utterly victimised in any court, especially family court.
I’m all for equality, but the so called SJW’s are pretty awol when it comes to the equal rights of men.
 
maxd said:
As tempting as it may be to use that as the take-away message of men's current self-harm issues I respectfully suggest that there may be a lot more to it than that. As a counter example women have been devalued in societies across the globe for a very long time and yet they aren't known to form "I wanna top myself" queues.

Perhaps it's got more to do with old, male-dominant societal values being eroded (at least here in the West) and thus leaving a vacuum where many men feel at a loss in terms of life's purpose and/or direction. Not unlike, for example, the "God is Dead" movement of 100 years ago or so where the reaction in a fair portion of society wasn't hugely different. But people adapt, their world is restructured and life (for most) goes on.

I personally don't see the evil spectre in modern feminism that others do. Giving equality, safety and respect to any marginalized portion of society (assuming they are generally non-violent, law-abiding members) is progress IMO. Hate and oppression never made the world a better place.
Click to expand...
Modern feminism is cancer, it’s not about equality one bit and it’s utterly devalued the strides real feminism made all them years ago.
I’ve no time for modern feminism, it’s utter BS
 
I live 20 minutes from a casino. It has been open for over 25 years now. When it first opened it was nothing more than a pole barn in the middle of a field. Now it is huge and a resort with a great golf course. It has transformed over the years to a beautiful resort. The down side to this, I KNOW people who have lost everything, and I mean everything because of gambling. I KNOW people who have attempted suicide and I KNOW people who have committed suicide because they lost everything. There have been a few instances where people have committed suicide at the resort.

What people don't realize, is it is an addiction that is bigger then themselves. I have had people tell me that the rush is better then getting high. I don't see it. I really don't. This is coming from someone (me) who has won over 200 thousand on the game Caribbean Stud. Was it exciting as hell to win that much money? Sure it was. But I also knew it was pure luck and a once in a million thing to happen. I have also won over 15 grand (hit the jackpot) playing on line. I was excited as hell but I didn't think it was going to happen again. I honestly think it is a problem where people think "This is an easy way to make money". But it isn't. What people don't think of is that is all luck 95% of time. I can honestly say that the people I have known that tried to take their own life had all said to me at one time or another, "It looks so easy to make money there, I see every one else do it".

There was a time when this casino had a promotion where if you cashed your paycheck there you had a chance to triple it by spinning a prize wheel. When I tell you on Fridays that promotions desk had a line over 100 people long and just about all day, I am not kidding you. This was becoming so bad that businesses would call and complain because people where calling in or taking the day off to spin the wheel. It was not until the state got involved because people on the system where cashing their welfare checks there and losing it all, they stopped it. I have actually heard one person say "I didn't hit the big money on the wheel, but I can triple my money on black jack".

When people start thinking like this is where the problem starts, in my opinion. If they are losing they keep going in hopes to win the money back and start thinking, "My luck has got to change" and if they start winning, they think they are going to win more and more and can't stop. Even when they just lost their last dollar. Not only are they losing money, but they are willing to give up everything, like family, their homes, their jobs. The losing hits people so hard they can't think of another way out other then to take their life.

It really is a horrible cycle. I have personally witnessed it. They are at such a low that don't want to hear to about getting help, they just want out. The shame and embarrassment is to much to handle. I don't know if that number is high or low but I think the writer is spot on when he says people don't recognize it an addiction.

LH
 
I would really like to see the thread title changed.

20% of ADDICTED gamblers would be a little sensationistic, but at least the claim of the article. and possibly closer to the truth. I've been gambling quite a few decades, and henceforth has known a lot of other gamblers. Contemplated suicide? I might think that number was conservative.

But I do remember reading a lot of years ago, and more than once since... Compulsive gambling had a higher rate of suicide than any other addiction.

I'm willing to believe that.

It should be taken more seriously.

But a thread title like this? Just looks like crackpot yellow journalism
 
I'd be inclined the desensationalize the title too but I've quoted the original Guardian title verbatim and changing it would probably some kind of copyright violation. :rolleyes:
 
This was posted a few hours after this thread started by a friend on my facebook. (Good timing), but I kept forgetting to bring it here. As a female, I can not allow to take responsibility for what men chose to do, or for anyone in that matter. Clearly there is a problem though. Blaming it on women and our roles in society, is like us women blaming men for holding us back, which in truth, it's a society issue. Anyways, it's a good read, and good timing :)
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