Whine and Moan 2.5% cost to use Mastercard at GUTS

[aceking123]

anyone flag ben for this ? again it shows its ugly head , there was another thread about the same thing not so long ago

 

[CasinoBen]

Hi Everyone,

We do currently have a fee of 2.5% on credit cards which is actually much less than what we are paying for the service and we are working very hard to get to a point where we can reduce the fee which should be in the near future. We do offer a variety of deposit options with no fee such as Skrill, Neteller, UKash, Paysafe and Webmoney. We are also in discussions with new payment services that will allow our players to deposit with no fees and payout faster to credit cards and bank accounts around the world.

Thanks,

Ben

 

[mimi26]

Hi Everyone,

We do currently have a fee of 2.5% on credit cards which is actually much less than what we are paying for the service and we are working very hard to get to a point where we can reduce the fee which should be in the near future. We do offer a variety of deposit options with no fee such as Skrill, Neteller, UKash, Paysafe and Webmoney. We are also in discussions with new payment services that will allow our players to deposit with no fees and payout faster to credit cards and bank accounts around the world.

Thanks,

Ben

I like the sounds of that

 

[funnymunny]

...ALL casinos face the same high charges on deposits and withdrawals...

Unless they all use the same payments gateway, this isn't strictly true...

Different processors charge different rates & a couple of examples can be found

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(2.4% + 20p per transaction), and

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(£19 per month flat fee + 2.25% + 15p per transaction). Gogle'ing 'Payment Gateway' will bring pages of results / alternates too.

As with a lot of things you buy, volume discount also applies so an Operator may negotiate periodic promotional rates in order to increase volume and reduce their costs, but typically the faster processors will attract a higher cost per transaction. It can be a very delicate balancing act - pay high fees & get money processed quickly, or keep costs down but have slower time of withdrawals. Unfortunately, the choices are similar to the below...

 

[Balthazar]

Different processors charge different rates & a couple of examples can be found

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(2.4% + 20p per transaction), and

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(£19 per month flat fee + 2.25% + 15p per transaction). Gogle'ing 'Payment Gateway' will bring pages of results / alternates too.

These guys probably charge quite a premium for gambling related operations as well. I doubt that casinos pay the same rate as an online stores and such.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi Everyone,

We do currently have a fee of 2.5% on credit cards which is actually much less than what we are paying for the service and we are working very hard to get to a point where we can reduce the fee which should be in the near future. We do offer a variety of deposit options with no fee such as Skrill, Neteller, UKash, Paysafe and Webmoney. We are also in discussions with new payment services that will allow our players to deposit with no fees and payout faster to credit cards and bank accounts around the world.

Thanks,

Ben

The industry needs to make up it's mind

For every casino like yours that suggests we use wallets such as Neteller rather than our cards, there is another that would push us the other way, sometimes HARD! Many casinos will say that if you use Neteller or Skrill, you can't take part in any of the promotions, you can just play "plain vanilla" casino games, which really makes no sense as it's the various promotions that makes each site different. I can play "plain vanilla" Tomb Raider or Immortal Romance on any site I currently have an account with. There casinos not only offer free deposits with cards (as they would rather you use them instead of Neteller), they also roll out the promotional red carpet to these card users as a further inducement to make them stay with cards.

One casino has gone a step further by removing Neteller and Skrill from the list of options, forcing players to use their cards, or even more troublesome methods such as UKash.


If the industry could only make up it's mind I would know whether I should stick with Neteller, or ditch them as a relic from the past, and try to find a gambling friendly bank account that will not constantly block my card transactions, accept that withdrawals back to the card might be very much larger than the recent deposits, and not baulk at the occasional 5 figure transaction.

My current main bank account is not particularly gambling friendly, blocking many transactions that are more than £100, and the block can last overnight till the "release" in the form of an automated verification call. Cahoot is the best, and is now the ONLY gambling friendly debit card option I have left after Barclaycard shut out gambling transactions as counting for "regular" transactions. Barclaycard was the only card I had that could rival Neteller in it's tolerance of regular 4 figure deposits and withdrawals. It was even tolerant of large withdrawals that pushed the card well into a credit balance. At the time, my debit cards either worked only for small transactions, or kept getting blocked.

It's not just the industry that needs to make it's mind up, but the banks. With proper UK regulation there should be no problems with the banks, but remote gambling has been specifically legal in the UK since the creation of the whitelist of accepted jurisdictions, yet things were steadily getting WORSE for those using cards.

One other thing that puts players off using their cards is the fact that their bank can quantify their gambling activity, and then factor this into their credit scoring for a loan or a mortgage. Using Neteller keeps a respectful distance between one's bank, and thus one's credit file, and gambling.

 

[petro]

@VWM
Have you considered that the payment processors are often changing their rates?
With that taken into account you can understand why casinos are often changing their policies on deposits.

One week Neteller might be their preferred method and another week it could be Mastercard.

 

[chayton]

These guys probably charge quite a premium for gambling related operations as well. I doubt that casinos pay the same rate as an online stores and such.

Good point - probably because there's a higher risk of fraud - chargebacks etc.

 

[vinylweatherman]

@VWM
Have you considered that the payment processors are often changing their rates?
With that taken into account you can understand why casinos are often changing their policies on deposits.

One week Neteller might be their preferred method and another week it could be Mastercard.

That's not really the customer's problem. If retailers have a problem with the banks, they should take it up with their trade association who can lobby the powers that be for change. It would appear that things are about to change for cards though with a new EU directive on the cards that seeks to limit the extortionate fees they charge some businesses.

I though that despite the fees charged by the banks, the biggest offender of all was Neteller and Skrill, and that this was the driving force behind the decision by other casinos to persuade their players to move away from the wallets and use their bank cards.

In practice, it seems that the "preferred method" does not change from week to week. I have noticed that where casinos have "temporarily" brought in a measure against players who use Neteller, it has quietly evolved into a "permanent" one, despite the market dynamics having changed considerably in the passing years.

If they want the players to join in the voice for change by asking our MPs to look into the market for processing, they need to tell us what the problems are so that we can put a coherent case together when contacting our MPs.

These are all "hidden charges", and the institutions have managed to get away with making them BECAUSE as far as the consumer is concerned, they don't exist. The fact that they add a little onto the price of everything we buy is not easy to notice because it has become part of the price that all retailers have to somehow pass on, so even comparing between retailers does not show the true effect of such charges as we don't have a comparator product or service the price of which excludes the charge. This is certainly the case in the world of online transactions, and when it comes to offline, asking "discount for cash?" tends to be a discount for "no paperwork" and allowing the supplier to dodge VAT, which is a far greater effect than seeing the cash price fall by a few percent because no card provider is taking a slice.

I have noticed that Neteller don't publish the fees they charge to merchants, although they publish a detailed set of fees for regular customers. Neteller merchant fees are rumoured to be 6%, possibly even higher. If so, this would still make it more expensive for a casino like GUTS to process Neteller deposits than card deposits, so it's odd that they NEED to levy a 2.5% charge for cards to help offset some of the cost, yet don't feel the need to offset their costs in processing Neteller. They are also pushing players towards using a more expensive option because as far as the player is concerned, it's 2.5% cheaper.

 

[dunover]

I dont get charged

Check your bank/CC statement. All cards attract a 2.5% fee. You'll see if you've deposited £50 '£51.25' on it.

 

[Balthazar]

Check your bank/CC statement. All cards attract a 2.5% fee. You'll see if you've deposited £50 '£51.25' on it.

Actually those who joined Guts before the implementation of the CC deposit fees were grandfathered the no fee deposits (can't find the post by Ben about it, but he did mention it a while ago). I'm one of those I think but it's hard to tell because of the Euro to CAD conversion. That's was implemented quite early so I'm guessing that we aren't that many.

 

[bigjohn]

N / C

 

[dunover]

Actually those who joined Guts before the implementation of the CC deposit fees were grandfathered the no fee deposits (can't find the post by Ben about it, but he did mention it a while ago). I'm one of those I think but it's hard to tell because of the Euro to CAD conversion. That's was implemented quite early so I'm guessing that we aren't that many.

I was an original signee at Guts and you may be correct. After my wins there I took a year break, so when I came back in August I had to register a new card as old one expired. This new one has attracted fees.

 

[eddiesdad]

from my way of thinking a small fee is ok to play,i regularly deposit and frequently withdraw the same amount as i have deposited.in this sort of situation the casino would be making a loss every time i played.a similar situation is with low rollers,i tend to think that a £20 win is worth withdrawing but again if this happens a lot in a session the casino can also be hit by multiple charges.at least guts are honest about withdrawals and the free spins do help to make up for this.

 

[chayton]

I don't have a problem with it either - since skrill bailed, I get charged fees no matter what I do - most of the other methods I've been using have added fees for transactions too, so I'm sort of used to losing a few bucks of my money before I even start to play.

 

[dunover]

We'll have to ask Ben to get the 'little man who controls pay-outs and gameplay' to add 2.5% to our RTP's to compensate...

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

A quick word about withdrawal charges. I use Skrill and don't mind to be charged a 2.50EUR every time I request a cashout... BUT I seriously hate the fact that when/if the cashout is cancelled/reversed, this charge is never refunded. After all, casino is a business like any other, and they should be either making enough dough to not be so petty, or to ask themselves if they are in the right business.

Disclaimer: Sorry. Must be just in a bitch-and-moan mood today to remember this 2.50EUR offence

 

[paul7388]

A quick word about withdrawal charges. I use Skrill and don't mind to be charged a 2.50EUR every time I request a cashout... BUT I seriously hate the fact that when/if the cashout is cancelled/reversed, this charge is never refunded. After all, casino is a business like any other, and they should be either making enough dough to not be so petty, or to ask themselves if they are in the right business.

Disclaimer: Sorry. Must be just in a bitch-and-moan mood today to remember this 2.50EUR offence

I don't use skrill as use neteller. I know if you reverse the neteller withdrawal the fee gets added back to the account. Only know as ive never reversed a withdrawal at Guts as they are always so quick until xmas eve when it was still pending after 5 hours so reversed and lost it lol but fee was returned.

Not sure why same doesn't happen with Skrill.

 

[Nate]

A quick word about withdrawal charges. I use Skrill and don't mind to be charged a 2.50EUR every time I request a cashout... BUT I seriously hate the fact that when/if the cashout is cancelled/reversed, this charge is never refunded. After all, casino is a business like any other, and they should be either making enough dough to not be so petty, or to ask themselves if they are in the right business.

Disclaimer: Sorry. Must be just in a bitch-and-moan mood today to remember this 2.50EUR offence

It's probably not automated but you are always Free to PM the Rep or get on Chat and ask for a refund. At a place like Guts, you WILL receive it.

Nate

 

[Azzurri]

Try having to deal with double the fees.

2.5% deposit fee plus various currency conversion fees. Can get very expensive just to deposit, especially when you deposit higher amounts on a regular basis.

They're not the only casino to do it to me, but as Guts is my most regular site, it's really a pretty big issue for me, even if it is their only downfall.

 

[Delandy]

Guts

I am Canadian. I heard so much good about GUTS that I wanted to try it. I went to deposit and found that they charge 2.5% fee to use my Mastercard gift card...what???? Never heard of that before. So if I used my 50 dollar card, I would actually only get 36 dollars.......thats 14 dollars I lose before I even get into the casino to play...Was so disappointed....Maybe someday when I get rich and famous I will get to try GUTS Casino...just saying.........................

I have run into a couple like this. Most casinos have a choice to play in your own currency. I tend to stay away from the ones who don't have that choice.

 

[jshort]

Did you spend $5-6 on a $50 gift Mastercard! ?

Get Instadebit. Best e-wallet for Canadians!

 

[hhhelllo]

paysafecard are now sold in every Canadapost...

Instadebit is a good ewallet but... if a direct link to your bank account represent a threat to your financial health.... I wouldn't suggest it...

200$ mastercard is 6$ fee so it's not that bad either

 

[Jasminebed]

paysafecard are now sold in every Canadapost...

Instadebit is a good ewallet but... if a direct link to your bank account represent a threat to your financial health.... I wouldn't suggest it...

200$ mastercard is 6$ fee so it's not that bad either

I feel exactly the same way. May work better for those with a separate gambling account, or those more trustworthy than me.

There are reloadable prepaid mastercards available from several Canadian sources. A few casinos will pay back to them, those that don't will pay back to alternate method, either bank wire or transfer, or to Ecopayz. Ecopayz is not as cheap as Skrill if you actually want to have your withdrawal, but great if it is keeping your bankroll going. With their charge and a bank charge, it's about $25 to have your money. For smaller amounts, you can use their Visa, and it's immediate, but it is US dollars, so you get charged around 6% in fees, and some flat fees for ATM withdrawals, with a certain limitation depending on your VIP level. Actually really good if you shop in US dollars online.

The right Visa card and the right casino, they can pay back to it. There may be limitations on the amount you can place back onto the card, your card provider can tell you this. I'm grandfathered on a prepaid Visa from Moneymart. Maximum single receipt is 5K, maximum total balance is 10K.

If it's over 10K, you don't mind paying $25. It's a lot to pay for $100.

Not counting my two best wins, I'd not be down much at all if not for fees.

Whereas I could have been down a whole bunch at B&Ms in my province at 82%.

 

[dionysus]

Instadebit doesnt work with all Canadian financial institutions - TD for example which blocks gambling transactions.
I still swear by prepaid mastercards. Sure there's a fee (negligible since I dep once weekly), but there's ZERO temptation to deposit more since the card isnt loadable and what's on it is what's on it. What's more, EVERY casino accepts it.

From there, I WD to my bank - again zero temptation to reverse or redeposit, because once funds are sent out, I can't use them and can't deposit until they arrive and purchase another MC card.

Great for adhering to gambling budgeting.