Who will be Next???

[The Watchdog]

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[brianzz]

Wonder if they'd ever have the balls to go after someone like microgaming

 

[vinylweatherman]

MG

Wonder if they'd ever have the balls to go after someone like microgaming

Whether or not the target IS Microgaming, this is bound to make the board want to pull out sooner rather than later, leaving RTG alone among the big operators to be a target. PLayers should be aware of what MAY happen if they have "too much" tied up in their accounts that they are likely to need for domestic reasons in the next month or two. Best to only have money that they can forget about in casinos till all this settles (if it ever does).

 

[soflat]

Wouldn't it most likely be a sports betting organization or a payment processor? Maybe the folks at Pinnacle and Mansion caught wind of this and therefore decided to pull out of the US market very recently.

You'd think they'd have enough sense not to travel to the US or its territories by now.

 

[WagerWitch]

Oh - it's me...

ROFLMAO --- Ok - so maybe it isn't me...

but just maybe we should start putting aside bail money - eh?

 

[soflat]

Maybe they're planning to bust someone at the Super Bowl. That would send a message.

 

[winbig]

I seriously doubt that anybody that has anything to do with an online gaming company or processor will step one foot within the USA. The only reason they were able to arrest the Neteller guys is that they actually lived within the states.

I would really really really love to see them try and extradite ANYONE from another country, no matter which one it is. That in itself would send a definite message once their request for extradition is denied.

 

[GrandMaster]

I would really really really love to see them try and extradite ANYONE from another country, no matter which one it is. That in itself would send a definite message once their request for extradition is denied.

I am not so certain. Under the US-UK extradition treaty, if Sheriff Roscoe P. Coltrane of Hazzard county claims that someone committed a crime, he has to be extradited and the Americans don't need to bother with awkward things like evidence.

 

[Simmo!]

Thing is, the DoJ know all they have to do is keep ensuring rumours are out there, feel the odd industry collar - even without a reason - and the rest will take care of itself. Legal, illegal, right and wrong - doesn't matter now the ball's rolling down the hill.

 

[AussieDave]

Personally I don't think RTG is going to get touched...

If he was in the DoJ sights, he'd have been arrested already. He's still living and working in Atlanta as far as I know.

I'm sure Michael Staw and everyone else over at RTG are & have been paying their taxes. So I highly doubt they'll be a target.

Which, should strongly point to this not being a security issue, but a lost revenue agenda.

 

[winbig]

Personally I don't think RTG is going to get touched...

If he was in the DoJ sights, he'd have been arrested already. He's still living and working in Atlanta as far as I know.

I'm sure Michael Staw and everyone else over at RTG are & have been paying their taxes. So I highly doubt they'll be a target.

Which, should strongly point to this not being a security issue, but a lost revenue agenda.

Why wouldn't they be touched? They're offering a means to help "Illegal" businesses stay in business by providing their software.

 

[Mousey]

OMG... Think they're going after Calvin Ayre (again)? Or do they already have warrants/subpoenas for him?

 

[wangpoker]

I think its Calvin Ayre!

 

[Addisyn]

Attention all casino execs. Leave the US now! Sell all your US holdings and go. That will show them!

You would think the DOJ would have something better to do! Like arrest Cheney for treason. Jeez!

 

[Rollo]

Wonder if they'd ever have the balls to go after someone like microgaming

The same country that invaded Afganistan, Iraq and is laying the foundation for an invasion of Iran? No shortage of balls. Good judgement yes, balls no.

The DOJ stated explicitly that they are going after those with the biggest impact, but they also seem to be playing is safe and sticking to sportsbetting related issues so far.

So I would say... Bodog (they will DEFINATELY hit BoDog sooner or later) no doubt whatever.

I think Party Poker is a good possibility given that these investigations started before the current legislation passed. That would make huge waves and really send the industry into chaos beucase those that pulled out have deluded themselves into believing they are safe.

Microgaming would be huge.

One thing is sure, more indictments are coming. Online gambling execs got too cocky and now I think the US is trying to show them, well, who's boss. They're no longer looking to just block access to US players, I think they are now out to crush the eniter industry globally since the industry looks to have all the fortitue of a wet tissue.

The indictments are going to continue for years along with huge settlements, much unpleasantness to come. I've really been in awe at the destructive power of these folks - sort of like wathcing a tornado destoy a trailer park.

The only good news is that Europe is making noise about challenging the US at the WTO. Antigua is meanless, but a decision in favor of the EU could mean something. On the other hand, I worry that a move like that would have the reverse effect and turn persecuting the gambling industry a matter of national pride in a sort of knee-jerk nationalism that my country is given to which could mean tougher legislation and harser prosecutions rather than a losening.

Did anyone hear they are trying to give the Neteller guys 20 years ?! Jesus

 

[winbig]

This Neteller case is definitely going to be a landmark.

If you haven't heard there's this guy named Devlin. He kidnapped *supposedly at gunpoint* a young child 4 years ago, and they just now found him. What was his bail? $1M. What was the bail for these Neteller guys? $5M. You can definitely see where the USA has its priorities. Let's see how long this Devlin guy gets compared to the Neteller people.

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As far as Bodog goes, they're really pushing their limits. I found out tonight via a phone call to them that they're still accepting sports bets OVER THE PHONE. Can we say "Wire act"?

 

[Rollo]

Washington Post article

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Washington Post article - I don't pay attention when a gambling site speculates, but I do when the Washington Post does. I wonder if there could be a major action right before, during, or after the Super Bowl? That would make news for sure.

 

[AussieDave]

Why wouldn't they be touched?

Why haven't they been arrested?

 

[Mousey]

...The indictments are going to continue for years along with huge settlements, much unpleasantness to come. I've really been in awe at the destructive power of these folks - sort of like wathcing a tornado destoy a trailer park.
...

Amazing isn't it? the US DoJ wants to stop online gambling so we arrest anyone who ever had anything to do with online gaming (as long as they have access to lots of money), and then we (the DoJ) proceed to extort millions of dollars from them....

 

[AussieDave]

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Second page of this article causes me a little concern.

"I'm sure they will get their money back. You've got to give Neteller a bit of space."

This comes from the spokesperson for Neteller George Cazenove.

I'm sure isn't exaxctly a positive YES...Sure, it's more than a maybe...But, anything but a YES, would start to send alarm bells ringing for me.

Sounds too much like what I've heard from casino's that are about to go ass up.

 

[Riffrafter]

Amazing isn't it? the US DoJ wants to stop online gambling so we arrest anyone who ever had anything to do with online gaming (as long as they have access to lots of money), and then we (the DoJ) proceed to extort millions of dollars from them....

Agreed. The DOJ/FBI may suck for all of us online gamers, but they're not dumb. If you want to break the back of an industry as big as this, you go after the biggest fish you can as publicly as you can. If along the way, you can find a few $billion to add to the national treasury by way of seizing "illegal" assets - why, that's a bonus.

And they always remember the credo:

Follow the money....follow the money.....follow the money.

BTW - don't blame the DOJ. They're just enforcing the cockamamie laws passed by our esteemed Congress and signed into law by our one & only George W. Bush.

<sigh>


-Riff

 

[winbig]

BTW - don't blame the DOJ. They're just enforcing the cockamamie laws passed by our esteemed Congress and signed into law by our one & only George W. Bush.

<sigh>


-Riff

I'll ask this once again:

What did you expect congress to do? Not pass the port security bill?

But yes, in the end, Bush should have taken the "earmarked" UIGEA addendum off that bill.

 

[REOdeathwagon]

If the U.S. government gets its way on Super Bowl Sunday, all bets will be off -- all online bets, that is.

The online bets are still on. Cashing out the winning online wagers is off.

"Criminal prosecutions related to online gambling will be pursued even in cases where assets and defendants are positioned outside of the United States," Michael J. Garcia, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, said last month.

More extraditions and seizures.

Moreover, although the Justice Department has suggested that all forms of Internet gambling violate the law, analysts say that online horse racing, poker and fantasy leagues may be exempt.

I don't think that they are going to mess with a stand anlone online poker room, yet. The dumbass American public 'might' disagree.

How the hell did fantasy football get mentioned in the list of exemptions? The NFL was a main proponent of the UIGEA. The NFL likes fantasy leagues and doesn't like gambling.

"The answer is, it's a bit confused at the moment," Neteller spokesman George Cazenove said. "I'm sure they will get their money back. You've got to give Neteller a bit of space."

Ouch, Billions of dollars this guy is talking about, and this is the statement NETeller paid him to make.

The crackdown against public, regulated foreign businesses has left small private companies to fill the void, an issue that worries industry officials and consumer groups who say the smaller entities are less subject to oversight and more difficult to police. In essence, they argue, the government drive could turn into another prohibition, and have the perverse impact of fostering underground, illegal activity.

For Americans we have entered the 'sleazy internet gambling era'. Ushered in by the US government. Reported in the washington Post.

"The net effect of this is, responsible people are out of the business," said Frank J. Fahrenkopf Jr., president of the American Gaming Association, a casino industry trade group.

We can handle this problem now. [We will have no problem counting this $$]

 

[Rollo]

Poker

Read this:

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Bet or wager includes risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event or a game subject to chance. The Act otherwise allows contestants to risk money on themselves. The game subject to chance restriction is designed to eliminate Internet poker.

Horse racing and fantasy legues are expemt as I belive the UIEGA says so specifically, but poker is screwed once the bank regs go into effect. even gaming frieindly Britian has declaired poker a game of chance. Anyone that attempts to faciliate the transfer of funds to a poker site will be a criminal. That's what makes this law so far reaching. It's doesn't make online gambling illegal per se, but makes the essential element of it explicitly illegal.

It's like if someone wanted to make airtravel illegal, but intead of going after all the million planes and pilots, they rather simply outlawed airports... Not totally effective... but pretty damned effective.

 

[REOdeathwagon]

Thank you for the link Rollo.

 

[tennis_balls]

but poker is screwed once the bank regs go into effect. even gaming frieindly Britian has declaired poker a game of chance.

i don't want to sound like a spammer so I won't mention the website, but I was looking at a poker site today that offered a new type of poker "duplicate poker" which lessened the luck factor by using multiple tables with identically shuffled decks. it's an interesting concept although it seems like a hard sell to lawmakers who don't understand poker to begin with.

here's an

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on duplicate poker

it appears that i've finally scooped jetset and Ian_go with this one! (woohoo!)

 

[footdr]

HOLDING NETELLER FUNDS DEFIES BILL"INTENT"

The law was passed " to protect u.s. citizens", many people losing their money, and all the sad stories the legislature used as evidence that gambling on the internet was ruining lives and family lively hood. AND ON and ON and ON.

Well keeping U.S. Citizens from retrieving their money from Neteller accounts, which in theory could be money unrelated to gambling, is not doing much for those individuals financial situation.

It is in essence freezing U.S. citizen bank accounts, with no notice or legal authorization. IT CAN BE LIKENED TO THE TACTICS OF THE IRS.

Which brings me to a real scary issue. How many are claiming expenditure, losses, gains on their internet gaming transactions?

Their access to information regarding accounts could potentially be used against individual citizens by the IRS.

Given the fact that you can find very little information about the planned route of enforceing this law, it would not be unresponsible to believe the information they receive, if the subpoenas are complied with, will provide the IRS with information valuable to identify tax evasion.

NOW THAT IS REALLY SCARY. AND THAT LAW HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH INTERNET GAMBLING. IT IS AN FEDERAL LAW ENFORCED BY THE IRS THAT ALL GAMBLING PROCEEDS MUST BE REPORTED. Until now I would venture most felt safe that these funds would not be detected. With current affairs as they are, I would not BET on it.

I would think the first targets would be people that have won big!!! looking for transactions in the thousands, not hundreds.

Maybe its a good thing I still have not won that Million Dollar Progressive.

 

[lojo]

Interesting points footdr. I had never really planned on itemizing gambling wins or losses but I'm going to start keeping track of my expenses for B&M, at least, in case I need to offset a win. I'm not going to fret about the past for online, but I could look at doing amended returns for the last three years I guess. I've done nothing illegal except out of ignorance so I really think I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[Mousey]

....

Which brings me to a real scary issue. How many are claiming expenditure, losses, gains on their internet gaming transactions?

Their access to information regarding accounts could potentially be used against individual citizens by the IRS.

....

Note to people who gamble in B&M casinos: You might want to get those win/loss statements from each and every casino, every year. Many casinos will let you fill out a form and request W/L statements on their websites. Some will send you a form to fill out, some will take your info over the phone and then mail you a W/L.

Why? Gambling is gambling and your losses at a B&M might help offset online wins (if you've been lucky).

At least I'm not the only one that's gone paranoid. Are we overly paranoid? Let's hope so.

 

[silcnlayc]

but I'm going to start keeping track of my expenses for B&M,

Actually, if you set up an account online with your casino card, you can access your wagering/loss account online, and get a printout of the years activity (this is for atlantic city casinos). I have an account at Borgatas, and all of Harrahs casinos and I can log in to check all my account activities at any time.

 

[s163999]

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Several sources in D.C., New Jersey -- others within the IGC -- have not heard anything about the rumors. That's not to say there isn't some truth behind them. Strange days, indeed.

This was originally run in eGaming Review on Jan. 30:

DoJ denies imminent indictment rumours

Rumours suggesting further online gaming arrests planned for this week have been denied by the Department of Justice (DoJ) in New York and Washington DC this afternoon.

A spokesperson said: Nothing would be made public until an individual or company was charged.

According to sources in Washington DC who have spoken to eGaming Review, the US authorities are on the verge of unsealing another set of indictments against a high-profile US-facing betting and gaming operator.

A move against the rumoured target in Superbowl week would be bound to be grab the headlines. It would also follow on from the arrests earlier in January of the two founders of Neteller, Stephen Lawrence and John Lefebvre.

eGaming Review will report more as the story develops.

 

[mgibson99]

Did you notice this from the Washington Post article:

Neteller is besieged with requests from frustrated bettors who want to recoup billions in deposits and winnings

Where did the Post get this figure? Neteller's most recent press release says only $55 million is tied up. That is a HUGE discrepancy.