When you cant protect yourself.....

[cncas2123]

For a while I knew I was chasing too much, had some horrendous losses and decided it was time to call it a day, so i signed up for Gamstop and instigated the 6 month exclusion.
A few weeks back I started getting emails from an accredited site, free spins on your next deposit etc, so i did a small deposit, played and lost. Deposited again on Friday, lost my nuts, around 2,500. So I logged into their sister site, under the same license, and lo and behold I had an exclusion in place that lasts for another 2 years.
My question is, why wasnt the exclusion extended as per the T&C's of the original site? Would I have been paid of I had won?
At least its made me put blocking software on my laptop.
I know I should have had more sense than to deposit and chase, but as the title says, when you cant protect yourself, and you see the red mist, surely RG should be there as a safety net.

 

[goatwack]

I don't think you would have been paid either, call it a 'hunch'

Seems the only and best way to really be sure is to use the blocking software, as mentioned.

Gamstop is more useful for the casinos than the players it seems

 

[cncas2123]

The exclusion on the sister site wasn’t via Gamstop, when I checked with chat it was originally from 2015.

 

[Skephan]

They should refund. I always self exclude at casino's where I dont like the offers or service to not be tempted. I also self exclude monthly at the casino's where I do play.

Whats the point of SE when even the casino's dodge it and come with the excuse "but you played your funds". It has to be more concrete. Ukgc and MGA should refund it when contacting them. Curacao licensed are more difficult. And yes you wouldn't have been paid.

 

[cncas2123]

Put in a complaint to the Casino, and got the email below. Bear in mind before I made the complaint I had been told by livechat on the sister site, which shares the same license, that I had an exclusion in place that wont expire until January 2021.......

Thank you for
your mail. From the
records that I have access to, it would seem that your 2015
exclusion was for a short period of time and that you were
not excluded when you were depositing and playing. In any
case, I am getting my technical team to double check these
records to ensure that we have everything in
order. Kindly note
that this is currently being looked into and we should be
able to get back to you definitively by next
week. Kind Regards

Methinks that now they have got the cash from me, its a case of screw you....... And obviously they have an exclusion in place now....
Somehow I dont think I will go back to online casino's, I think I will extend my Gamstop ban for at least a year.

 

[colinsunderland]

do you not have an email from back then stating how long it was?
I thought the max set period was 5 years, so if it was done in 2015 how can it not expire until 2021?

 

[mack341]

Could you put in a 'subject access request' to obtain a copy of the data records they hold on you, probably in the first instance from the casino you excluded yourself from? I would have thought this would include the details of your exclusion, date etc..

Edit: it seems reading between the lines of their message if you were excluded they will return your funds.

 

[cncas2123]

I thought the maximum was 5 years and that’s why I asked live chat the start date of the exclusion, and they told me it was April 2015 which didn’t make sense to me .
When I initially tried to login it said I was self excluded, so I checked with live chat and they said I was excluded until 20/01/21, and I have to say I wasn’t aware of that .

 

[cncas2123]

do you not have an email from back then stating how long it was?
I thought the max set period was 5 years, so if it was done in 2015 how can it not expire until 2021?

No doubt they will say that it wasn’t an exclusion as an exclusion only lasts for 5 years, but live chat definitely said it started in April 2015 and won’t end until January 2021.
I’ve asked the sister site to send a transcript of the chat but they have refused, so I’ve requested it from there complaints department.

 

[colinsunderland]

No doubt they will say that it wasn’t an exclusion as an exclusion only lasts for 5 years, but live chat definitely said it started in April 2015 and won’t end until January 2021.
I’ve asked the sister site to send a transcript of the chat but they have refused, so I’ve requested it from there complaints department.

Which casino is it?
Just do a SAR and be clear you specifically want copies of chats included

 

[cncas2123]

Which casino is it?
Just do a SAR and be clear you specifically want copies of chats included

Original exclusion was with All British Casino

 

[colinsunderland]

Have you sent a PM to @L&L-Jan or @RyanABC both are very good reps?

 

[cncas2123]

No not yet, wanted to see what the final response was

 

[colinsunderland]

I would drop Jan a PM it's likely to be much quicker than waiting for support

 

[cncas2123]

I thought this would happen, and I was not disappointed. It looks like i was misinformed by chat, i didnt have an exclusion even though the chat from Friday says there is an exclusion in place.
Ive requested an SAR for all chats in the last 2 years, and also for the start and finish dates of the exclusion. Will contact the reps now.



I’ve looked into your account and can confirm that you were not excluded at the time that you had your gameplay and your deposits.

I have looked into the transcript with support on Friday and am reproducing it below:

XXX chatted Aug 3 (5 days ago)

l
23:28
name: XXXXX
email:XXXXXX
Hi I tried to log in but it’s sayimg I’m excluded? I thought my time out had ended

Adrian
23:28
answered the chat
HelloXXXX

XXXX
23:28
Hi can you tell me the status on my account

Adrian
23:28
I will check your account

XXXXX
23:29
Thanks
Adrian

23:30
You have self excluded until 20/01/2021

XXXX
23:30
Ok thanks I didn’t realise

Adrian
23:31
Can I help with anything else?
added tag Other
23:33
As I have not heard from you in a while I will close the chat down. Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.
closed the chat

Unfortunately this information seems to have given you the wrong impression as your self-exclusion history shows as follows (kindly note that time difference shows the SE starting from Saturday not Friday):

Duration Created At Expires At Status
900 2018-08-04 2021-01-20 00:50:22 active
90 2015-06-25 2015-09-23 23:09:42 expired

I hope that the above clarifies the situation but as a result I must refuse your request for a refund of the deposits. I apologise about the unorganised nature of the information being provided but the email was being rejected when attempting to send with them included.

Kindly let me know if you still require us to prepare the information requested by the SAR.

Sincerely,
Chris

What he didn’t add was a separate chat that stated the exclusion started in April 2015

 

[cncas2123]

Have you sent a PM to @L&L-Jan or @RyanABC both are very good reps?

Contacted the reps this morning.

 

[cncas2123]

Something definitely doesnt add up here - my exclusion was created 17 minuted before this chat and it lasts for a total of 3 years 5 months and 16 days???? Thats a pretty precise option that All British nust be offering, it seems a bit strange to me.

900 2018-08-04 2021-01-20 00:50:22 active

 

[TheSam469]

I thought that UKGC hadn't implemented their self exclusion time frames till late 2015 at best. Correct me if i'm wrong

 

[RyanABC - retired]

Hi there,

Jan and I will look into the matter at hand when we can, we are both currently OOO at an industry conference.

We appreciate your patience whilst we look into the matter.

Many thanks,
Ryan

 

[alexking12k]

Hi there,

Jan and I will look into the matter at hand when we can, we are both currently OOO at an industry conference.

We appreciate your patience whilst we look into the matter.

Many thanks,
Ryan

In other words, you ain't getting your money back.

 

[colinsunderland]

In other words, you ain't getting your money back.

Why would he if there was no self exclusion in place?

 

[cncas2123]

Why would he if there was no self exclusion in place?

See what I don’t understand is this . On the chat at 11.30 I’m excluded. In the mail they sent me today , which I posted earlier , my exclusion didn’t start until 00.50 Malta time, which is 11.50 BST. So my exclusion started after chat told me I’m excluded, and I had a chat ten minutes later which they didn’t quote in the email to me today which clearly stated it started in April 2015.
I’m bringing this to the forum to point out that responsible gambling is very much treated with a bit of disdain by some operators, and I believe things like this should be highlighted.
I’ve requested copies of all chats from 2015 in the SAR, it will be interesting to see what comes back....

 

[cncas2123]

Got this in response to my SAR request, which contradicts the reply I got from the Free Spins Casino CEO. So according to my SAR I excluded in January 2016 from All British for 5 years.
I have forwarded this to the CEO and asked for a response. Also its showing that the previous response from the CEO was wrong, I didnt self excluded 15 minutes after the chat took place.
It will be interesting to see if they refund the deposits.

Hi XXXX,


Thank you for hanging in there.


I have compiled all information in the formats you have requested and attached it in a zipped folder.


From our systems it appears that you have first requested to self-excluded on AllBritishCasino on 20 May 2015 for 90 days and for 5 years on 22 January 2016, this exclusion period will end 20-01-2021.

On FreespinsCasino your first exclusion of 90 days started on 25 June 2015 and the account was automatically reopened once this period expired.

In line with current regulatory requirements both account have now been excluded until 20-01-2021.


The websites in the portfolio of L&L Europe that accept players from the UK are:

allbritishcasino.com

allirishcasino.com/

nobonuscasino.com/

freespinscasino.com

yakocasino.com/

yeticasino.com

funcasino.com/


Please let me know if you have any further questions of a data protection nature at this point.

 

[cncas2123]

Hi there,

Jan and I will look into the matter at hand when we can, we are both currently OOO at an industry conference.

We appreciate your patience whilst we look into the matter.

Many thanks,
Ryan

Hi Ryan/Jan, with reference to the information that I have posted, can you confirm that any SE on ABC should have automatically been extended to Free Spins Casino and I shouldnt have been sent emails with offers or been able to deposit?

 

[Slottery]

Shouldn't minimum period of self-exclusion should be 6 months for UK players at least

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if my memory serves me right as this link could suggest?

Other what i would ask is that if you were self-excluded (and you didn't just block your account from one single site), when and how you took "positive step" after your self-exclusion period was expired? Without you contacting operator to inform that you wish to return gambling, you shouldn't have access to your account even your self-exclusion period is over if you haven't take that positive action and then your account can be opened after one day cool off period which was one part of LeoVegas quite big fine they got:

• Allowed 413 previously self-excluded [1] customers to gamble without speaking to those customers first or applying a 24-hour cooling off period before allowing them to gamble.

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90 days self-exclusion sounds bit weird when reading UKGC guide lines as that if your account is opened without your own request (should remain self-excluded minimum of 7 years without your positive action to return gambling) if you haven't request it.

Something is not really perfectly matching here based on explanation above but as 90 days self-exclusions shouldn't exist, it really can be just bit incorrectly phrased, but then if you were blocked only from one site, it shouldn't go across all the sites under same license i guess. I assume that you will get clear explanation from casino group what has happen and that everything has been made without violating any UKGC terms. All this assumed that you live in UK like your profile suggests.

 

[cncas2123]

Shouldn't minimum period of self-exclusion should be 6 months for UK players at least

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

if my memory serves me right as this link could suggest?

Other what i would ask is that if you were self-excluded (and you didn't just block your account from one single site), when and how you took "positive step" after your self-exclusion period was expired? Without you contacting operator to inform that you wish to return gambling, you shouldn't have access to your account even your self-exclusion period is over if you haven't take that positive action and then your account can be opened after one day cool off period which was one part of LeoVegas quite big fine they got:

• Allowed 413 previously self-excluded [1] customers to gamble without speaking to those customers first or applying a 24-hour cooling off period before allowing them to gamble.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

90 days self-exclusion sounds bit weird when reading UKGC guide lines as that if your account is opened without your own request (should remain self-excluded minimum of 7 years without your positive action to return gambling) if you haven't request it.

Something is not really perfectly matching here based on explanation above but as 90 days self-exclusions shouldn't exist, it really can be just bit incorrectly phrased, but then if you were blocked only from one site, it shouldn't go across all the sites under same license i guess. I assume that you will get clear explanation from casino group what has happen and that everything has been made without violating any UKGC terms. All this assumed that you live in UK like your profile suggests.

According to the response I self excluded for 5 years in January 16

 

[Slottery]

"From our systems it appears that you have first requested to self-excluded on AllBritishCasino on 20 May 2015 for 90 days and for 5 years on 22 January 2016, this exclusion period will end 20-01-2021.

On FreespinsCasino your first exclusion of 90 days started on 25 June 2015 and the account was automatically reopened once this period expired."

I saw this in post above where just pointed out that you were 90 days self-excluded and that your account was automatically reopened once period expired. Both should be not happening as per UKGC ruling:

- Self-Exclusion minimum period should be 6 months and you had only 90 days.
- Self-Excluded account should not open automatically for UK players once period is expired.

As said, maybe just incorrect word used and you were only blocked from one of sites, but if that was from all like self-exclusion only do if you don't close accounts one by one, you shouldn't received any marketing material from casinos within same license or get access to your account without your request and after that one day cool off period.

Sorry if understood wrong, just bit mixing message there about SE periods available and automatically opened account after SE expired.

 

[cncas2123]

"From our systems it appears that you have first requested to self-excluded on AllBritishCasino on 20 May 2015 for 90 days and for 5 years on 22 January 2016, this exclusion period will end 20-01-2021.

On FreespinsCasino your first exclusion of 90 days started on 25 June 2015 and the account was automatically reopened once this period expired."

I saw this in post above where just pointed out that you were 90 days self-excluded and that your account was automatically reopened once period expired. Both should be not happening as per UKGC ruling:

- Self-Exclusion minimum period should be 6 months and you had only 90 days.
- Self-Excluded account should not open automatically for UK players once period is expired.

As said, maybe just incorrect word used and you were only blocked from one of sites, but if that was from all like self-exclusion only do if you don't close accounts one by one, you shouldn't received any marketing material from casinos within same license or get access to your account without your request and after that one day cool off period.

Sorry if understood wrong, just bit mixing message there about SE periods available and automatically opened account after SE expired.

Didn’t mean to come across as abruptly as it appears, but yes they had it as a 90 day exclusion, then a 5 year exclusion, but originally they said there was no exclusion until the 4th August 2018. So my SAR proves that was wrong, and I just wanted to highlight that to the forum as it appears that they don’t take responsible gambling very seriously, and they don’t seem to have robust systems in place to make sure exclusions cover all sites.

 

[colinsunderland]

From memory there has never been a 3 month exclusion period so not sure how they managed that. Plus the account shouldn't have been re-opened unless requested by you are a 24 hour cooling off period applied. The account should not have been automatically re-opened either. @L&L-Jan @RyanABC maybe you could comment?

 

[cncas2123]

From memory there has never been a 3 month exclusion period so not sure how they managed that. Plus the account shouldn't have been re-opened unless requested by you are a 24 hour cooling off period applied. The account should not have been automatically re-opened either. @L&L-Jan @RyanABC maybe you could comment?

I don’t think they ever closed the Free Spins account which they should have as part of the ABC self exclusion, my details were exactly the same at all sites I’ve signed up for.
What’s worrying is they only seem to have applied an exclusion after I queried why I couldn’t access the ABC account, that’s over 2 years since the 5 year exclusion.

 

[cncas2123]

An update this morning, looks like they gave me the incorrect information at the start ( I wonder how many would just have accepted that and done nothing).....
But I am still concerned an exclusion from 2016 was never extended to sites under the same license, particularly when all the details were exactly the same.


Dear XXXXX,


I spoke to our Data Protection Officer and after digging in the logs he found that there was in fact a self-exclusion entered into in 2016 which was not showing up for some reason. At the same time, an error was showing the SE as starting from August 2018 which as I can now confirm was indeed incorrect.

This explains why the support staff informed you of the 2015 exclusion and the end date of 2021 as well as why I replied in the manner that I did.



Due to this, I apologise about my previous initial reply but I am glad that this was sorted in the end. I shall be instructing the payments team to refund your deposits immediately.

 

[colinsunderland]

At least its all sorted now, and you are getting your deposits back. A lot of casinos wouldn't do that, and certainly not without a big fight first!

 

[SpinUk]

On the back of a big potential fine ala Leo Vegas and clear evidence they have not enforced the previous self-exclusion, don’t think they had any choice.

Didnt stop them have a little nefarious stab at witholding the exclusion information on the DP request though. Nice try guys.

 

[Slottery]

Well done from Casinos side, give much more trust to operator when they can admit that mistake had happen and correct that in your favor, gives loads more trust to group who do this instead of fighting until very last chance to keep your dosh. We all make mistakes, also online casino operators, some of them just will sort them out quick and effective way (taking an account that there was weekend in a middle, could say that they couldn't be much faster).

Also again one example that you can act like OP, don't have to be furious and call casinos scammers etc.... Before giving them fair chance to sort things out, many of these "ranting topics" (not meaning this one) are bit over reacting, which is understandable when there is money attached, but most of operators, at least these where people in this community have learnt to trust, are very reasonable with their decisions when handling complaints/queries, they just sometimes need bit time and clear explanation from player as well to see whole picture and go through logs like in this situation.

Happy End.

 

[RyanABC - retired]

Hi everyone,

Apologies fro the silence on our behalf. I did raise this to the necessary parties one I first came across it and was told it would be sorted. Given the delicate nature of the query I thought best to leave discussions private between the player and our CEO.

I am happy a suitable outcome was achieved and I wish you all the best with your future well being.

many thanks,
Ryan

 

[cncas2123]

Update... as you can see the deposits were refunded to me and thank you to L & L for sorting this , but I do have genuine concerns that they don’t have systems robust enough to spot exclusion and input it to other sites in the group.
In this instance it took 2.5 years to put the ABC exclusion in place at Free Spins Casino , and that was only when I checked with ABC chat.
Hopefully they will review their systems and nobody else will slip through the net.

 

[alexking12k]

An update this morning, looks like they gave me the incorrect information at the start ( I wonder how many would just have accepted that and done nothing).....
But I am still concerned an exclusion from 2016 was never extended to sites under the same license, particularly when all the details were exactly the same.


Dear XXXXX,


I spoke to our Data Protection Officer and after digging in the logs he found that there was in fact a self-exclusion entered into in 2016 which was not showing up for some reason. At the same time, an error was showing the SE as starting from August 2018 which as I can now confirm was indeed incorrect.

This explains why the support staff informed you of the 2015 exclusion and the end date of 2021 as well as why I replied in the manner that I did.



Due to this, I apologise about my previous initial reply but I am glad that this was sorted in the end. I shall be instructing the payments team to refund your deposits immediately.

It's funny how you guys always make a mistake that works in your favor.

 

[Borgie]

It's funny how you guys always make a mistake that works in your favor.

Sorry what are you saying exactly?