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what is your opinion regarding RNG's

Watchfuleyes

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I'm new here but absolutely not a stranger to the online gaming community, so any way, my reason for the stop here is to get other opinions from regular(frequent) players of online slots in particular across various gaming platforms. In short, what is your opinion regarding RNG's, Random Number Generators, AKA--Rigged Nemesis Games as I have recently been told...
 
I'm new here but absolutely not a stranger to the online gaming community, so any way, my reason for the stop here is to get other opinions from regular(frequent) players of online slots in particular across various gaming platforms. In short, what is your opinion regarding RNG's, Random Number Generators, AKA--Rigged Nemesis Games as I have recently been told...

Hi there. Opinions may vary, but the fact is that the RNG generates pseudorandom numbers that are statistically indistinguishable from truly random ones.

By “truly random,” I mean processes with no cause, dependency, or correlation — like radioactive decay, which simply happens and can’t be predicted.

An RNG just produces numbers that turn into images on your screen — regardless of whether you win or lose, play with your right or left hand, in a good casino or a bad one, in a new slot or an old one.

It has no memory and no emotions. Its only function is to generate “random” numbers.

If you’re curious, I’ve written a detailed longread about this topic — the link’s in my profile.
 
The old RNG things were/are set at %RTP were fine if it was an honest RTP that was posted. What's going on now is the advent of the banking games where bonus rounds and scatter free spins are incorporated into the games.

Those are banking games and collect anynumber of percentage of all the wagers towards the bank. If you wonder why the banks are mostly empty when you get the bonus/freespins, it depends on how the casinos want to control their cash flow and done through the RAM (Random Access Memory).

Control is everything nowadays. Goodluck.
 
I've personally noticed so many negative changes, guess the day has finally arrived,too much tech, no more fun, and even less winning, even small wins are very far and few between. I'm still wondering why they would want to minimize features as I have also realized has been greatly affected in a negative way. Being that the features are the key points, in my opinion, to the excitement of the game, just makes no sense.
 
I've personally noticed so many negative changes, guess the day has finally arrived,too much tech, no more fun, and even less winning, even small wins are very far and few between. I'm still wondering why they would want to minimize features as I have also realized has been greatly affected in a negative way. Being that the features are the key points, in my opinion, to the excitement of the game, just makes no sense.
In your opinion, does a coin toss determine the RTP or the probability of heads and tails?
 
In your opinion, does a coin toss determine the RTP or the probability of heads and tails?
The toss of a two sided coin is a given 50/50, as far as the Return To Player it's still a 50/50 shot, I can't comment because I have no idea because it could land heads 20x in a row or vice versa or switch every flip
 
The toss of a two sided coin is a given 50/50, as far as the Return To Player it's still a 50/50 shot, I can't comment because I have no idea because it could land heads 20x in a row or vice versa or switch every flip
A coin toss is an RNG. RTP is the set of rules that determine how bets are paid out. They’re two different things. Check out my post on this topic — either here or on my blog.

Here’s a metaphor to illustrate it. Imagine an RNG that’s “programmed” for RTP. Picture this:

Megan, a university student living in Riga, works part-time as a live dealer at Evolution. The job isn’t hard and the pay is good — but there’s one problem. Every time she throws the roulette ball, she has to think about RTP. After all, her throw generates a random number, and as we all know, the RNG is tuned to RTP.
The girl has no idea how to “tune” her throw to RTP — she just wants to toss the ball naturally. But before every spin she tries to adjust herself mentally, and in her head it looks something like that meme.
1762035516091.webp

Is that really how you imagine this concept works?
 
A coin toss is an RNG. RTP is the set of rules that determine how bets are paid out. They’re two different things. Check out my post on this topic — either here or on my blog.

Here’s a metaphor to illustrate it. Imagine an RNG that’s “programmed” for RTP. Picture this:

Megan, a university student living in Riga, works part-time as a live dealer at Evolution. The job isn’t hard and the pay is good — but there’s one problem. Every time she throws the roulette ball, she has to think about RTP. After all, her throw generates a random number, and as we all know, the RNG is tuned to RTP.
The girl has no idea how to “tune” her throw to RTP — she just wants to toss the ball naturally. But before every spin she tries to adjust herself mentally, and in her head it looks something like that meme.View attachment 212904
Is that really how you imagine this concept works?
No
The coin flip I can physically watch and see...
In casinos, the ball toss at the roulette wheel I can physically watch and see...
The reels of online slots is a whole different thing
 
No
The coin flip I can physically watch and see...
In casinos, the ball toss at the roulette wheel I can physically watch and see...
The reels of online slots is a whole different thing...

In addition regardless the flip of the coin or toss of the ball, I can see it and that to me is fair play...
Online slots is very questionable and in my opinion even more so nowadays
 
Pseudorandom is the best answer as said by
Hi there. Opinions may vary, but the fact is that the RNG generates pseudorandom numbers that are statistically indistinguishable from truly random ones.

By “truly random,” I mean processes with no cause, dependency, or correlation — like radioactive decay, which simply happens and can’t be predicted.

An RNG just produces numbers that turn into images on your screen — regardless of whether you win or lose, play with your right or left hand, in a good casino or a bad one, in a new slot or an old one.

It has no memory and no emotions. Its only function is to generate “random” numbers.

If you’re curious, I’ve written a detailed longread about this topic — the link’s in my profile.
When slots and fruit machines are real, physical then assuming they aren't rigged some way they are true to their claimed odds, to as precise as the makers make them. And of course they were much more basic pre internet and 2000. They've continued to evolve (In regular casinos in London there are no true slots, they're all computers)

billion said it right too and to add, slots are networked now so adjustments are made ever quicker. I have noticed when staff reset machines and open them up the menu screen, accounting is one of the options... Wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall? I believe the games are adjusted quite often, as billion said depending on the bank...

Programmed randomness is far from random but continues to evolve that it's ever harder to foil, if you play old videogames and older slot and fruit machines they were far more predictable as their Rand() was simpler. I'm not sure it applies and I doubt it does or even if it did most slots now are min 5x3 games so that's a heck of a lot of permutations so little use to be aware of this but take for example the Dreamcast port of Virtua Fighter 3tb, when there's no data saved you always face the same sequence of foes, this is also true for my old mp3 player when you shuffle tracks, it always shuffles into a particular order despite hundreds of songs.

My hunch is with slots the results are predetermined (As described with my 2 examples of older devices using random functions), how so is up for debate. People think the wager affects the outcome too, I used to think it's totally independent but a veteran slots player made a good point, of course it is they want to make money. If slots were more favourable to bigger bets that would be against the interest of the makers and establishments. I'll give a 3rd old example of predictable randomness, an online game Tactics Arena Online a turn based boardgame, non magic attacks were determined by luck if they hit as with Dungeons and dragons etc... However many players sussed out when hits hit or miss somehow to the point the devs just display ingame when it will hit, think it was they did such an amateur job with randomising that you simply tally how often the attacks miss out of 10 so if the chance of a hit was 2/10 and there's been near 10misses.... Again with slots though where the jackpot is often 2000-1 in pay, 90% ish for house edge (Online slots have higher RTPs, 92% is usually the highest in a casino!) it's humanely improbable to second guess games to a reliable level. (Besides progressive games where there is a ceiling the bonus/jackpot must drop)... Note also such 'predictable' games often have a shorter shelf life in casinos!

P.S. Coins are not even chance, one side is grams heavier or fractons of grams. Again how useful that is may be very small. I was told by an architect it's near impossible to make an unbiased roulette wheel, that may be so but it would be very fine margins & the casinos would be aware if a table or game is losing them money, ever more so now with how fast communications move and how sharply things are tracked.
Easiest games to predict are card games albeit you're not allowed to card count and it's not easy anyway with 6-8decks. Simply as the odds of results are on the condition 'without replacement', narrowing down results very much. That is not the case with roulette and slots (Besides progressive features and jackpots, e.g. every 10th spin a feature occurs or must be hit by £x)

I came across an interesting case of a guy dubbed the claw machine king from China, he has won so many toys from those awfully rigged machines he donates them as he's run out of space in his flat. How is he such a serial winner? He observes machines, he can tell which ones are rigged and which might let you win. Can he bring that expertise into slots I wonder?

So to conclude and apologies for this ramble albeit all gamblers have their own rant re luck, the randomness of games isn't as random as people think, just as AI isn't real intelligence or the physics in games isn't 100% true to real physics but the difference shrinks every generation, as Casino Hates Winners says (indistinguishable from the truth).

That is why slots keeps getting more complex, long gone are the days when it was 1 row when people made thousands off them as they sussed them out etc... That all said for some reason I do find slots the most fun form of gambling though it's reputedly the most dangerous and biggest earner for casinos! Also the more basic games tend to be the least volatile, no frills games no bonuses (Usually fruit games), yes they are all games of luck but slot games do vary incredibly, at least short term some really are better than others on average.
 
In addition regardless the flip of the coin or toss of the ball, I can see it and that to me is fair play...
Online slots is very questionable and in my opinion even more so nowadays

No
The coin flip I can physically watch and see...
In casinos, the ball toss at the roulette wheel I can physically watch and see...
The reels of online slots is a whole different thing

I understand your point of view. You could, for example, look into the subject in more detail and come to the conclusion that an RNG is essentially the same as a coin toss — even if you can’t see it — or just stick to playing with live dealers.

And if we’re talking about live dealers, you can imagine that the ball doesn’t actually fly randomly but is controlled by software using a magnetic field or something similar. By the way, there are plenty of videos online about live games claiming that something shady is going on there too.
 
You don’t believe in all those independent labs that test slot RNGs precisely to ensure that the results aren’t predetermined?
I actually received an email from one of the online casino support staff that stated all of their outcomes were in fact predetermined, so now I just don't know how to feel about ever having any kind of fair chance unless they(the online casino) decides to choose my account for a win.
 
I actually received an email from one of the online casino support staff that stated all of their outcomes were in fact predetermined, so now I just don't know how to feel about ever having any kind of fair chance unless they(the online casino) decides to choose my account for a win.
Can you show the email text and the name of the casino?
 
In your opinion, does a coin toss determine the RTP or the probability of heads and tails?

RTP and probability are two different things.

If 2 people each own half the coin and they flip it to decide who gets the whole coin it would be a 50/50 chance of probability that one or the other will win it. As it's been said, in a short run it could come up heads ten or more times. However, with odds of 50/50, the probability of it coming out 50/50 is closer to 100% if the coin is flipped a billion times and it's likely a 50/50 split who wins the coin.

Now on the other hand, RTP is when there is like a charge to flip the coin, Say a casino does the flipping and charges 5% each flip. The RTP is then 95%. So every time the coin is flipped the casino takes a 5% bite and voila, The coin is soon all eaten up by the casino. It's gone and never coning back. You'll have to come up with another coin.

And to be fair to casinos, they have to make a living too. So, what they do is flip the coin at 5% and offer you a chance to get a free coin if it lands on its side. And what's the odds (probability) of that happening?

The probability of landing the winning combinations at slot games are listed in the slot game par sheets.
 
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I actually received an email from one of the online casino support staff that stated all of their outcomes were in fact predetermined, so now I just don't know how to feel about ever having any kind of fair chance unless they(the online casino) decides to choose my account for a win.

What they probably meant is once you press play on any game the outcome is already known, eg before it’s displayed to the player with reels etc so it is predetermined at that point technically.

But other than that I would take with a pinch of salt what a standard typical support staff know if I’m honest most will not know technical sides of things.
 
You are absolutely right about RTP and probability.

As for the par sheets, have you ever actually seen one? It would be much more transparent if every player could access them. All we ever get is the RTP, and even that is not always shown, plus a generic volatility label like “high” or “low”.
 
Hi, I don't know about posting links and I don't endorse any web sites. That said, if you google par sheets, scroll to Easy Vegas you will find some information. And if you are inclined there is a way to do a deeper dive into the subject. Also, land based casinos are more regulated than online ones and so they don't have the freehand to play the same shenanigans.
Link below. If not allowed, sorry and please remove. Thanks.
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I found some information about jackpot odds for offline slots and that part can actually be useful, but the rest is mostly just payline layouts and how they change depending on the RTP. That is also useful to know and understand.

If they added the odds for winning combinations, it would be perfect. For online slots it would be just as valuable to know the actual hit probabilities.
 

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