Casino Complaint What is happening at Club World Casinos ?

[Gremmyboy]

I'm personally leaning towards VWM's reasoning and believe you may have stumbled upon some flaw in the game design inadvertantly and been getting a nice pay off.

Whether you knew or not is not clear?(did you notice a pattern or style you were doing while betting that made it more productive?)

Either way I think how you are being treated is abhorrent!

I would like an explanation from CWG as a lot of us here are customers and like me may be worried that this may happen to us too!
We are unlikely to get one though and so therefore will never know the 'real' reason.

Respectfully we can't take your account of events as gospel either!

I guess it all boils down to.....
'It's their casino and they can choose who plays and who doesn't. Just or unjust that is their decision and you really have no choice other than to move elsewhere!'

Cheers
Gremmy

 

[Larsenne]

I'm personally leaning towards VWM's reasoning and believe you may have stumbled upon some flaw in the game design inadvertantly and been getting a nice pay off.

Whether you knew or not is not clear?(did you notice a pattern or style you were doing while betting that made it more productive?)

Either way I think how you are being treated is abhorrent!

I would like an explanation from CWG as a lot of us here are customers and like me may be worried that this may happen to us too!
We are unlikely to get one though and so therefore will never know the 'real' reason.

Respectfully we can't take your account of events as gospel either!

I guess it all boils down to.....
'It's their casino and they can choose who plays and who doesn't. Just or unjust that is their decision and you really have no choice other than to move elsewhere!'

Cheers
Gremmy

I will, Gremmy. I will move on. This was no fun.

L'arsenne

 

[3mptyseat]

Its so weird...

Doncha think it's weird how peoples perspectives and experiences, though seemingly similar in the most ways, can be quite different at the end of the day

I play at Club World Casinos all the time...

And I cashout there more than any other RTG's I play out...

In fact, I redeemed $2.31 in comp points yest, and just over an hour later, I w/d $1100.

An Hour after that Tom had paid my click2pay account and had Pm'd me here to advise that a couriers check may very well be faster than an ACH...

I have been, on occasion, and not recently, but truthfully, a complete dick a few times to the CSR's...

And they treat me pretty well... I dunno, maybe their is a lot of variation on the way players are treated, or maybe there is something more to this than either side cares to share...

Goes to show something, but idk wtf that would be...

 

[vinylweatherman]

Doncha think it's weird how peoples perspectives and experiences, though seemingly similar in the most ways, can be quite different at the end of the day

I play at Club World Casinos all the time...

And I cashout there more than any other RTG's I play out...

In fact, I redeemed $2.31 in comp points yest, and just over an hour later, I w/d $1100.

An Hour after that Tom had paid my click2pay account and had Pm'd me here to advise that a couriers check may very well be faster than an ACH...

I have been, on occasion, and not recently, but truthfully, a complete dick a few times to the CSR's...

And they treat me pretty well... I dunno, maybe their is a lot of variation on the way players are treated, or maybe there is something more to this than either side cares to share...

Goes to show something, but idk wtf that would be...

There is bound to be more to this than seen here, but this could well be down to a mistake in a dataset somewhere, and the OP has been caught up in the perifery of an ongoing investigation into something, and has been ditched as "high risk", even though there is no proven connection. The initial denial of the withdrawal makes me think this, with the rep getting it paid because there was not enough evidence to accuse the OP of anything, but as far as CWC were concerned, it was best to get rid of the player in case they WERE involved in some way. It could be nothing more than a similarity in playing style that got the OP included on the list of suspects. If this was simply a case of a winning account being taken off the bonus list, this is what would have happend, and the OP would still be able to play, just not be eligible for any further offers.

Moving to another accredited RTG casino is probably the best option, but ensure it's not a sister casino to Club World, as the exclusion is going to be group wide, but the registration process may not be able to cope with this, so the OP could end up depositing, and THEN be kicked out again once management catch up.

 

[Larsenne]

There is bound to be more to this than seen here, but this could well be down to a mistake in a dataset somewhere, and the OP has been caught up in the perifery of an ongoing investigation into something, and has been ditched as "high risk", even though there is no proven connection. The initial denial of the withdrawal makes me think this, with the rep getting it paid because there was not enough evidence to accuse the OP of anything, but as far as CWC were concerned, it was best to get rid of the player in case they WERE involved in some way. It could be nothing more than a similarity in playing style that got the OP included on the list of suspects. If this was simply a case of a winning account being taken off the bonus list, this is what would have happend, and the OP would still be able to play, just not be eligible for any further offers.

Moving to another accredited RTG casino is probably the best option, but ensure it's not a sister casino to Club World, as the exclusion is going to be group wide, but the registration process may not be able to cope with this, so the OP could end up depositing, and THEN be kicked out again once management catch up.

I have deleted the casino software and unscribed the mailinglist. It is sad. I liked the friendly support and the good service I have got there throug the past years.
I can do nothing more. From clear heaven to a nightmare over a day. I don't understand what I have done wrong. I don't understand what I am accused for. I really don't.

Regards

L'arsenne

 

[vinylweatherman]

I have deleted the casino software and unscribed the mailinglist. It is sad. I liked the friendly support and the good service I have got there throug the past years.
I can do nothing more. From clear heaven to a nightmare over a day. I don't understand what I have done wrong. I don't understand what I am accused for. I really don't.

Regards

L'arsenne

Have you tried Slotastic?
Even iNetBet if you can put up with email only support.

It's not the end of RTG for you, just one casino group.

It didn't bother me (I joined Slotastic instead, and will probably give iNetBet another go, because if all goes well, they pay fast - I prefer email to live chat anyway, so will only miss the phone for urgent matters).

What would REALLY pi$$ me off is a Microgaming wide ban. I doubt that will happen, even Casino Rewards treat me like royalty, whatever I do to their bonuses (This might not necessarily last though, and I will walk, rather than be pushed, if the time comes).

A couple of years ago, Roxy Palace came back to me and gave me £150 for free, made me VIP, and said I had yet another ticket for GSOS 1. Sorry Roxy - not going to be THAT easy, try better next time Maybe if they hadn't strung me along with a pack of lies instead of just telling me I had won too much, I would have come back. Maybe it was so long ago that the records have dropped of the back-end, and they think I have never played at all

 

[DemonUK]

I have mentioned this somewhere else but following a couple of withdrawals from HighNoon my casino lobby updated last night. I found that the continual bonus 'slots65' had been changed to 'slots35' with a 30x WR!!!!

 

[jod5413]

I have deleted the casino software and unscribed the mailinglist. It is sad. I liked the friendly support and the good service I have got there throug the past years.
I can do nothing more. From clear heaven to a nightmare over a day. I don't understand what I have done wrong. I don't understand what I am accused for. I really don't.

Regards

L'arsenne

You did nothing wrong, if you followed the casino's rules, which you did. You need to just chalk it up to shenanigans from an on line casino. Try to not feel bad, I know it is frustrating when you get no answers and they make you feel like a crook. You know you aren't and you just need to hold your head up and go elsewhere with your gambling money.

You have been nothing but calm and posted responsibly, I envy your self control. A lot of us here would have blown the forum up with our shouting!!

 

[De Beuker]

I have deleted the casino software and unscribed the mailinglist. It is sad. I liked the friendly support and the good service I have got there throug the past years.
I can do nothing more. From clear heaven to a nightmare over a day. I don't understand what I have done wrong. I don't understand what I am accused for. I really don't.

Regards

L'arsenne

I fully understand your frustration and I think its pretty damn lame from the casino side that they wont give you a reason why.
At least not a good one.

I really expected some more from a reputable group as CWC.
A real shame it is.

 

[rainmaker]

This thread will probably die out soon, so to give an short summary of my own view.

I think it would be interesting to know why your account was closed. But it seems like the casino are not interested in giving you any explanation. That is not good.

The rep has given a very short reply in this thread. His reply indicates that it is completely normal to close a players account with no further explanation. The player even only play slots, has not been accused of violating T&C and has only accepted bonuses offered by the casino. Despite what the rep is indicating, I want to point out again that this is an highly unusual practice from an reputable casino.

If this is about bonuses, then a fair and quite common consequence for the player would be "to be banned from bonuses" and not to have his account suddenly closed. In general, my personal opinion is that it is quite amateurish for casinos to see slot bonuses as "rewarding" and therefore bans (lucky) players from it. I rarely accept bonuses. I like to win and loose with my own money. Most slot bonuses today is no advantage for players anyway. For some strange reasons, CS often treats bonuses like it is gold. But some casinos has started to just give away bonuses like crazy. They know that bonuses usually is no advantage anyway. For example Bet365. I think their players can claim about €3000 a week in bonuses. These bonuses are bad, but most bonuses are bad anyway. So to see a casino like Club World telling a customer "we don't like the way you play with your bonuses" is not good.

We can only speculate. Maybe it is another algorithm at Club World who has gone crazy (remember the last time when Club World algorithm went crazy? Many low rollers got their min. bet automatically raised)

But whatever the exact reason is, there has probably something to do about this player not being profitable enough. It is not roguish to kick out players when the balance is settled, but it is strange to see that an accredited casino closes an account with no further explanation. Are they on a "raid" where low-profitable customers gets their account closed? Well, we don't know and the casino won't tell.

I really don't think that this behavior is worthy for an accredited casino.

 

[daveboz]

Well, the rep said it wasn't about winning, but HOW the win was made. It just seems that increasing the stake when winning, and lowering it when losing, is what CWC consider as "abusive playing strategy", and a pretty SERIOUS one at that, since I was merely given a bonus ban, yet the OP had their account closed altogether.

It was clearly far more serious than MY strategy.

Yes, the terms HAVE been updated, and a number of weaknesses have been addressed. I can only presume that the OP inadvertently stumbled on a new weakness, CWC considered that this was used knowingly to exploit the account, and could NOT be dealt with merely by a bonus ban.

CWC are certain the OP knows damn well what they did, but as a new exploit, it isn't covered in the terms and conditions - hence, the OP didn't break any terms, BUT they took advantage of a weakness in the system that CWC considered gave them an unfair advantage over the casino that meant the casino could never make a proft from them over the long term, even if they played without bonuses.

Clearly, they do NOT want to mention what this weakness is until they have found a way to plug it, either through a software update, or a change in the terms.

It would not be the FIRST time this has happened either. It happened in 2006 on Microgaming software, and publicly the casinos were quoting "illegitimate play" and confiscating winnings left, right, and centre. No terms were broken, and players who complained got a decision in their favour. The casinos refused to tell even Max or Bryan what had REALLY been going on, and in the end paid players who had discovered the weakness, but not actually broken any of the rules.

I was intrieged, and started investigating what could have been going on. I got a couple of anonymous tip-offs, and eventually discovered what had REALLY happened. I later told Max about it, and he confirmed that he was never given this information when the cases were being dealt with, even though it could have saved the casinos from having to pay out because of "malfunction voids play" rules. This particular weakness actually worked BETTER if players didn't take a bonus.

The "mad hatter" Casinojack told me in London that there were similar weaknesses in two of the Real Series slots with RTG, and that some casinos had found this out, and didn't feature the games.

The RTG classic slot "Frozen Assets" was pulled RTG wide because it too had a neat little exploit within it, along with a number of other classic slots like Diamond Mine that had a weaker variant of the "Frozen Assets exploit".
RTG have always maintained that the games were discontinued because they were "unpopular", but it was not the PLAYERS who considered them unpopular, it was the CASINOS - many players LOVED them

To the OP - you have clearly stumbled on some kind of strategy that makes you unpopular with the casinos, but you don't seem to realise what you have found, and you just think you have been very lucky.

Have you been particularly lucky on certain slot games, and then carried on going back to them using the same strategy because you now feel this is the best way to play them?

I do the opposite, when I'm losing I amp up the bet. I rarely increase my
bets when I'm winning online.

 

[Larsenne]

Thanks

Dear Members.

I really thank you all for taking the time to help me sort this out. This is a great forum with very nice people. Very, very nice people!

Regards

L'arsenne

 

[vinylweatherman]

This thread will probably die out soon, so to give an short summary of my own view.

I think it would be interesting to know why your account was closed. But it seems like the casino are not interested in giving you any explanation. That is not good.

The rep has given a very short reply in this thread. His reply indicates that it is completely normal to close a players account with no further explanation. The player even only play slots, has not been accused of violating T&C and has only accepted bonuses offered by the casino. Despite what the rep is indicating, I want to point out again that this is an highly unusual practice from an reputable casino.

If this is about bonuses, then a fair and quite common consequence for the player would be "to be banned from bonuses" and not to have his account suddenly closed. In general, my personal opinion is that it is quite amateurish for casinos to see slot bonuses as "rewarding" and therefore bans (lucky) players from it. I rarely accept bonuses. I like to win and loose with my own money. Most slot bonuses today is no advantage for players anyway. For some strange reasons, CS often treats bonuses like it is gold. But some casinos has started to just give away bonuses like crazy. They know that bonuses usually is no advantage anyway. For example Bet365. I think their players can claim about €3000 a week in bonuses. These bonuses are bad, but most bonuses are bad anyway. So to see a casino like Club World telling a customer "we don't like the way you play with your bonuses" is not good.

We can only speculate. Maybe it is another algorithm at Club World who has gone crazy (remember the last time when Club World algorithm went crazy? Many low rollers got their min. bet automatically raised)

But whatever the exact reason is, there has probably something to do about this player not being profitable enough. It is not roguish to kick out players when the balance is settled, but it is strange to see that an accredited casino closes an account with no further explanation. Are they on a "raid" where low-profitable customers gets their account closed? Well, we don't know and the casino won't tell.

I really don't think that this behavior is worthy for an accredited casino.

In other words, being rude to customers you no longer want is "perfectly normal". It's the same as "using" someone who has come to see you as their friend, and then spitting them out when they are no longer of any use to you. We were brought up to consider this as completely unacceptable behaviour, yet once you become successful in business, you get a complex that makes you see your customers as something to be used to enrich yourself, and not as human beings with feelings. It is no wonder then, that CS staff are subjected to such levels of abuse, because they are the ONLY point of contact between customers and the faceless uncaring business, and some customers even stop seeing CS staff as human beings with feelings, and consider abusing them is the same as abusing a faceless corporate entity, and nothing to be ashamed of socially.
CS staff are often there to protect the management from the consequences of their actions, paid very little, and are expendable. They are rarely given the power to actually give "customer service".

It seems to be a disease that infects EVERY business, even the ones that start out with high ideals, once they grow beyond a certain size.

3 Dice and 32Red are relatively small companies, and they give by far the BEST levels of service. The larger groups, such as Casino Rewards, are often the source of complaints because of their attitude towards customers. Club World has grown steadily from a relatively small operator of just two casinos, Club World $ and Club World £, into a group with a number of casinos, and it seems the decline in opinion of them among players has followed their rapid expansion into offering around half a dozen RTG sister casinos. If management don't step back and look at how they are changing for the worse, they could find themselves eclipsed by a more attractive operator able to give players what they once had from Club World.
When they were a smaller group, they WOULD tell you why you had been bonus banned, and try to do so without creating "bad feeling". They would NEVER close an account completely, you were ALWAYS welcome to carry on as a "no-bonus player" if you wanted to.
Total exclusions, rather than bonus bans, seems to have been a recent development, and has been seen at a number of casinos, not just CW.

Whilst affected players may seem not to care, they often DO care, because they feel they have been INSULTED. Even though they will NEVER come back after the way they have been treated, it is NOT "closure" for them, and it will always be something they will wonder about, and this will often be because they feel they have been suckered in by all the FAKE friendship they though they were getting from the casino when they were a profitable customer, and they anger is probably directed at THEMSELVES, as well as the casino, because they feel they should have known better.

It all goes back to the fact that, no matter how nice staff at a business is to you, they are NOT YOUR FRIEND, they are merely AFTER YOUR MONEY. Remember this, and it will be easier to cope when they "spit you out" after having chewed all the "goodness" from you.

Even the staff at 3Dice and 32Red are not your FRIENDS, they are merely better at treating their customers like human beings than the larger operators. The bottom line is the same, they want your money, and to get it they must convince you to give it to them in return for what they are offering.

 

[jod5413]

In other words, being rude to customers you no longer want is "perfectly normal". It's the same as "using" someone who has come to see you as their friend, and then spitting them out when they are no longer of any use to you. We were brought up to consider this as completely unacceptable behaviour, yet once you become successful in business, you get a complex that makes you see your customers as something to be used to enrich yourself, and not as human beings with feelings. It is no wonder then, that CS staff are subjected to such levels of abuse, because they are the ONLY point of contact between customers and the faceless uncaring business, and some customers even stop seeing CS staff as human beings with feelings, and consider abusing them is the same as abusing a faceless corporate entity, and nothing to be ashamed of socially.
CS staff are often there to protect the management from the consequences of their actions, paid very little, and are expendable. They are rarely given the power to actually give "customer service".

It seems to be a disease that infects EVERY business, even the ones that start out with high ideals, once they grow beyond a certain size.

3 Dice and 32Red are relatively small companies, and they give by far the BEST levels of service. The larger groups, such as Casino Rewards, are often the source of complaints because of their attitude towards customers. Club World has grown steadily from a relatively small operator of just two casinos, Club World $ and Club World £, into a group with a number of casinos, and it seems the decline in opinion of them among players has followed their rapid expansion into offering around half a dozen RTG sister casinos. If management don't step back and look at how they are changing for the worse, they could find themselves eclipsed by a more attractive operator able to give players what they once had from Club World.
When they were a smaller group, they WOULD tell you why you had been bonus banned, and try to do so without creating "bad feeling". They would NEVER close an account completely, you were ALWAYS welcome to carry on as a "no-bonus player" if you wanted to.
Total exclusions, rather than bonus bans, seems to have been a recent development, and has been seen at a number of casinos, not just CW.

Whilst affected players may seem not to care, they often DO care, because they feel they have been INSULTED. Even though they will NEVER come back after the way they have been treated, it is NOT "closure" for them, and it will always be something they will wonder about, and this will often be because they feel they have been suckered in by all the FAKE friendship they though they were getting from the casino when they were a profitable customer, and they anger is probably directed at THEMSELVES, as well as the casino, because they feel they should have known better.

It all goes back to the fact that, no matter how nice staff at a business is to you, they are NOT YOUR FRIEND, they are merely AFTER YOUR MONEY. Remember this, and it will be easier to cope when they "spit you out" after having chewed all the "goodness" from you.
Even the staff at 3Dice and 32Red are not your FRIENDS, they are merely better at treating their customers like human beings than the larger operators. The bottom line is the same, they want your money, and to get it they must convince you to give it to them in return for what they are offering.

Excellent post, Vinyl!!!!

 

[sandykauf]

Totally agree with Vinylweatherman. These casinos really can't be trusted in full and certainly are not your friends. Can you imagine the MGM or Harrahs telling winning players (on slots yet) not to come back? Would never ever happen and that's why alot of people really want to see gambling regulated. These are viable business entities that all have futures.

Places like Clubworld casinos will be a thing of the past. The only reason why they have a decent market share now is due to the lack of options U.S. players have and the pickens are slim when it comes down to receiving actual payment. This should be a given, but isn't. Alot of these casinos will probably let their reputation slide, even if it is good because they know their prosperous days will soon be coming to an end. Just my opinion, but I believe we'll all see more and more of this type of behavior.

 

[Larsenne]

A final statement

Dear Members.

I have thought about this, beeing so rudely insulted by Club World Casino.

"Hi Dan,
Yes, your account is permanently closed, please do not create any new accounts either with ClubWorldCasinos or with any other casino in our group.
The reason being the manner in which you play the bonuses. While you do not break any of the terms of the offers we no longer wish for you to be a customer of ours."

I was actually in chock the whole week after.
I will make a final statement about this casino managements behaviour.

Online gambling is advertised as an alternative to landbased casinos. I have a landbased casino very near were I live.

Club World has stated that they do not like "the manner" I play slots. Well, it can't be the way that I push the button "spin" with the mouse. So i must be how I wager.
How do I wager? Well I may start with 1 dollar a spin.
Ok.
And if I am lucky, I win say 100 dollar. Then I high my bet to 2 dollar a spin.
If I do not win for some spins, I go back to 1 dollar. If I win, I may high my bet to 5 dollar. This consider Club World Management as a "manner" they do not like. They are considering this as a bad stratey.

In a landbased casino, people play that way all the time. If people win a larger amount, they can risk more, to win more. Casinos is about winning.

When Robert de Niro, as the casino manager in the movie "Casino" gets angry becasue
the jackpot has been payed at the casino, his slotmanager answers:
-But Mr Rothstein, this is a casino. People win from time to time.

Consider this matter on a landbased casino. Should a slotmanager at a landbased casino watch me playing slots. And when I play 25 c slots and win, and go to a 1 $ slot, say to me:
-Hey Mr. You can't go there. You started with 25 c slots. Stick to them. We consider players that go from 25c slots to 1$ slots as irregular players.

If I won at the roulette on an number. Should the croupier say.
-Hey. You can't put 5 chips on red. When you started you just put 1 chips in red. It is irregular to high you stakes.

If I go to the landbased casino and put 10 $ in a machine, and win the progressive för 100 000, should I be banned and called an cheater, because, you can't win so much on a so small deposit.

One of our members here stated, that if I had deposit 100 $ and won 8000, they could se the casinos point of view. Why?

On antoher RTG casino, one single player managed to win 5 random jackpots som years ago. On a deposit of just 30 $ the player managed to win 37 000 $!! There were no charges and accuses for the player. The casino advertised this as an really fantastic occasion, and the winner could tell the story on the casinos website. And they were gratulated.

Conclusion: Some casinos managements should not deal in the casino business, because they do not understand the business.
They way that Club World treat some players is amateurish and bad. And they run a bad business. Not giving online gambling a good reputation.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Dear Members.

I have thought about this, beeing so rudely insulted by Club World Casino.

"Hi Dan,
Yes, your account is permanently closed, please do not create any new accounts either with ClubWorldCasinos or with any other casino in our group.
The reason being the manner in which you play the bonuses. While you do not break any of the terms of the offers we no longer wish for you to be a customer of ours."

I was actually in chock the whole week after.
I will make a final statement about this casino managements behaviour.

Online gambling is advertised as an alternative to landbased casinos. I have a landbased casino very near were I live.

Club World has stated that they do not like "the manner" I play slots. Well, it can't be the way that I push the button "spin" with the mouse. So i must be how I wager.
How do I wager? Well I may start with 1 dollar a spin.
Ok.
And if I am lucky, I win say 100 dollar. Then I high my bet to 2 dollar a spin.
If I do not win for some spins, I go back to 1 dollar. If I win, I may high my bet to 5 dollar. This consider Club World Management as a "manner" they do not like. They are considering this as a bad stratey.

In a landbased casino, people play that way all the time. If people win a larger amount, they can risk more, to win more. Casinos is about winning.

When Robert de Niro, as the casino manager in the movie "Casino" gets angry becasue
the jackpot has been payed at the casino, his slotmanager answers:
-But Mr Rothstein, this is a casino. People win from time to time.

Consider this matter on a landbased casino. Should a slotmanager at a landbased casino watch me playing slots. And when I play 25 c slots and win, and go to a 1 $ slot, say to me:
-Hey Mr. You can't go there. You started with 25 c slots. Stick to them. We consider players that go from 25c slots to 1$ slots as irregular players.

If I won at the roulette on an number. Should the croupier say.
-Hey. You can't put 5 chips on red. When you started you just put 1 chips in red. It is irregular to high you stakes.

If I go to the landbased casino and put 10 $ in a machine, and win the progressive för 100 000, should I be banned and called an cheater, because, you can't win so much on a so small deposit.

One of our members here stated, that if I had deposit 100 $ and won 8000, they could se the casinos point of view. Why?

On antoher RTG casino, one single player managed to win 5 random jackpots som years ago. On a deposit of just 30 $ the player managed to win 37 000 $!! There were no charges and accuses for the player. The casino advertised this as an really fantastic occasion, and the winner could tell the story on the casinos website. And they were gratulated.

Conclusion: Some casinos managements should not deal in the casino business, because they do not understand the business.
They way that Club World treat some players is amateurish and bad. And they run a bad business. Not giving online gambling a good reputation.

This doesn't look credible. I now think they have LIED about why they have thrown you out. They have another, secret, reason - but have come up with this more mundane explanation for "public consumption".

It is complete bullshit that this kind of bankroll and risk management strategy could in any way be considered "abusive", since it does not break any of the terms and conditions.

There is something elae going on at CWC. Another player asked why the min bet had been raised to $1 per spin, and other players said it hadn't. It turns out that CWC had been setting bet limits on a per player basis, but had not wanted this to be known by other players. They eventually admitted that they had been manipulating "spread" because of "the way these players played", which was to bet high, and then grind out on 25c to complete WR if they win.

It now seems YOUR strategy is also "abusive" because you bet LOW to start with, and then bet higher if you start winning, and lower again if the games go cold.

Unlike the former, this strategy is COMMON SENSE, and is mentioned in advice about gambling responsibly, and not "chasing" losses after a cold spell. Given how CWC say they go to great lengths to suport responsible gambling (no students allowed for example), the claim that a key bankroll management strategy for gambling responsibly is deemed "abusive" makes no sense at all, thus they are using it as an excuse, and it is NOT the main reason for throwing you out.

It looks from their email that they are suggesting you are a "multi-accounter", but they don't have enough evidence to pin a fraud charge on you for it, but want rid of you because you are "high risk".

Yes, your account is permanently closed, please do not create any new accounts either with ClubWorldCasinos or with any other casino in our group.
The reason being the manner in which you play the bonuses. While you do not break any of the terms of the offers we no longer wish for you to be a customer of ours.

 

[Larsenne]

This doesn't look credible. I now think they have LIED about why they have thrown you out. They have another, secret, reason - but have come up with this more mundane explanation for "public consumption".

It is complete bullshit that this kind of bankroll and risk management strategy could in any way be considered "abusive", since it does not break any of the terms and conditions.

There is something elae going on at CWC. Another player asked why the min bet had been raised to $1 per spin, and other players said it hadn't. It turns out that CWC had been setting bet limits on a per player basis, but had not wanted this to be known by other players. They eventually admitted that they had been manipulating "spread" because of "the way these players played", which was to bet high, and then grind out on 25c to complete WR if they win.

It now seems YOUR strategy is also "abusive" because you bet LOW to start with, and then bet higher if you start winning, and lower again if the games go cold.

Unlike the former, this strategy is COMMON SENSE, and is mentioned in advice about gambling responsibly, and not "chasing" losses after a cold spell. Given how CWC say they go to great lengths to suport responsible gambling (no students allowed for example), the claim that a key bankroll management strategy for gambling responsibly is deemed "abusive" makes no sense at all, thus they are using it as an excuse, and it is NOT the main reason for throwing you out.

It looks from their email that they are suggesting you are a "multi-accounter", but they don't have enough evidence to pin a fraud charge on you for it, but want rid of you because you are "high risk".

Maybe. But I have not more than one account at Club World Casino.
It is against the terms. And I play honest.

As Billy Joel sings: Honesty, such a lonely word, everyone is so untrue.

Maybe I have won more than usual comparing to my deposits lately, but in the short terms that happens. It is a casino. As you can see at the main site here, the pay out percent is 95-97 at Club World. That means that the casino gets 3-5 % of the players money. I have won from that 95-97 %. If I hadn't won from it, another had won it. Because that 95-97 % goes back to the players. So I do not get why they even bother who is winning what. It is ridiculous.
I mean...Could I change the house edge of the casino, then I am a magician.

Regards

L'arsenne

 

[jod5413]

Club World and their sister sites should win the award for shortsightedness of the year! Do they not realize that this crap gives players a reason to go elsewhere? And to badmouth Club World everywhere they post? Duh!!!!

Larsenne, do not worry about your reputation, it is fine. Just round up the money you would have put in their bank and go to another RTG casino. There are lots of reputable RTG casinos that treat players well.

 

[Nifty29]

You know what a land based casino would do?

Roll out the red carpet. Free rooms, food, booze, etc to get you to come back and play MORE because they KNOW they'll get their money back.

Club World ain't getting any of theirs back.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Maybe. But I have not more than one account at Club World Casino.
It is against the terms. And I play honest.

As Billy Joel sings: Honesty, such a lonely word, everyone is so untrue.

Maybe I have won more than usual comparing to my deposits lately, but in the short terms that happens. It is a casino. As you can see at the main site here, the pay out percent is 95-97 at Club World. That means that the casino gets 3-5 % of the players money. I have won from that 95-97 %. If I hadn't won from it, another had won it. Because that 95-97 % goes back to the players. So I do not get why they even bother who is winning what. It is ridiculous.
I mean...Could I change the house edge of the casino, then I am a magician.

Regards

L'arsenne

They may know this, but it seems they have this view that you will simply create a second account to get around their ban on you, and are warning you not to even think of it. This is a thinly veiled insult, as they clearly believe that you are prepared to do something like this, rather than accept your ban. It also throws some light on what they think about you, but dare not say, that makes then consider you so "high risk" that a bonus ban is not good enough, you have to be banned completely.

They seem to believe you are a "fraudster" that is gearing up to attack them, but has yet to try anything that is against the terms. Now that they have turned off your legitimate avenues to play their bonuses, they think you will counter this by beginning to "multi-account" at their sister casinos. In other words, they don't like "the way you play the bonuses" in a sense that goes way beyond your actual playing strategy of increasing your bet when you win, and decreasing it when you hit a losing spell, a strategy that does not give you any advantage in the long term, and is completely the opposite of a strategy that increases your chances when using a bonus, which is to bet big when LOSING, and smaller after winning to grind out the WR.

 

[4 of a kind]

If you've only deposited say $100 and withdrawn $8000 I could understand their position.

Based on this comment above, if anyone could sympathize with any casino land based or online that offers gambling and pulled these maneuvers, needs their head examined.

Comments like above that understand casinos ridding winning players makes no sense what so ever, especially against pre-programed slot machines.

 

[Gremmyboy]

Are you ahead in withdrawals compared to deposits?
If you've only deposited say $100 and withdrawn $8000 I could understand their position.
But as is so frequently pointed out here that is a very narrow minded position as a gambler is a gambler and will likely give a large chunk if not all of the money back to the casino.....and then some.!

Cheers
Gremmy

It can read any way you like when taken out of context.....

I was stating that I could understand the reasoning the casino would use in these circumstances.

I also pointed out that I thought it was stupid for them to do so....you neglected to include this important part of my post!

Cheers
Gremmy

 

[vinylweatherman]

Based on this comment above, if anyone could sympathize with any casino land based or online that offers gambling and pulled these maneuvers, needs their head examined.

Comments like above that understand casinos ridding winning players makes no sense what so ever, especially against pre-programed slot machines.

Amounts are irrelevant. Casinos openly promote the fact that it is possible to win such big amounts, even from a small deposit, so should not have a problem with a player that gets lucky enough to pull it off.

There have been some rare cases of land casinos throwing out customers who win big, and then do NOT start betting big afterwards, and this is on the grounds that they know they will never get it back because the customer is too SMART to think that upping their bets will net them more and bigger wins.

It shows that casinos, despite what they claim, do NOT like "smart" players who are resistant to the marketing ploys and "hype" about the chances of being a big winner, and continue to play at their chosen level despite having had a big win. This is known as "responsible gambling". It is IRResponsible gamblers that get a big win, and then go "mad" with their new found wealth by high rolling way out of their league, and ending up back where they started.

 

[Larsenne]

Account question

They may know this, but it seems they have this view that you will simply create a second account to get around their ban on you, and are warning you not to even think of it. This is a thinly veiled insult, as they clearly believe that you are prepared to do something like this, rather than accept your ban. It also throws some light on what they think about you, but dare not say, that makes then consider you so "high risk" that a bonus ban is not good enough, you have to be banned completely.

They seem to believe you are a "fraudster" that is gearing up to attack them, but has yet to try anything that is against the terms. Now that they have turned off your legitimate avenues to play their bonuses, they think you will counter this by beginning to "multi-account" at their sister casinos. In other words, they don't like "the way you play the bonuses" in a sense that goes way beyond your actual playing strategy of increasing your bet when you win, and decreasing it when you hit a losing spell, a strategy that does not give you any advantage in the long term, and is completely the opposite of a strategy that increases your chances when using a bonus, which is to bet big when LOSING, and smaller after winning to grind out the WR.

Dear Vinylweatherman.

Thank you for excellent posts, and your concern.

I see what you mean. But this is not my type of living my life, thinking of revenge.
A can assure the casino that I will never, ever, open another account and behave
like a fraudster. That is far to low in my taste.
I will not act low in this case. Casino management did it so well on their own.

Regards
L'arsenne

 

[sandykauf]

Larsenne -

I'm glad to read your recent posts because your not apologetic anymore to the circumstance but rather accept the reality that the casino has the problem and not you. Before you kept saying "I did nothing wrong, etc" but now come across that they are the ones that did the wrong thing (I also think many people reading this know this as well). Good for you...don't defend these kinds of places. They did you a favor.

If they don't want your business because you win there, it just shows what they really do want...losers. They show their true colors when they treat customers like this and where everyone can read how they operate and are motivated by greed. Good luck to you where you decide to take your future business.