UK Conservative Party Leadership Election

[ChopleyIOM]

So Labour are obviously natural born financial wizzkids compared to the tories, can you pinpoint a few of the significant things they did differently in the blair brown golden era to the last 12 years of tory rule? [brexit aside, and lockdown expenditure generally as labour supported the govt there]

Rishi's speech was a bit so-so, not sure he's even able to convince himself truly.

New Labour weren't amazing, for all the good stuff they did actually do, the way they did it could have been better and more sustainable. (i.e. The changes they made for the good were very easily reversed.)

There's a really good piece about it here which TBH explains it far better than I would, this is a somewhat critical analysis.

I have to say I'm not even remotely persuaded by much of what Starmer had to say today.

I know I'm a voice of one pissing in the breeze on this, but Corbyn was a genuine shot at a new way of running the UK's economy on a fairer and more redistributive footing that would have benefited most people to some reasonable extent or other.

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[pinnit2014]

Corbyn was never the future, he wasn't even the past.

My Dad was a big Trade Union man (though he subsequently bent to a bit of Thatcherism in his later days - in his words, probably through the lens of seeing people not being rewarded for their work and his dubious Irish views) and when i uttered his name you could see the contempt.

As a relatively comfortable household (Bonanza permitting) when we see the budgets offered up (Lab and Con) we look at it and go: what's there for me? Very little to be honest. Eg, we lose our jobs. What support is there? Literally nothing, apart from 70 quid JSA - and apart from some opaque 'advice' for dealing with it. We need to get away from thinking politics and economics is just about the bottom and top and realise there is a middle group who are increasingly disenfranchised by all main parties.

 

[mack341]

I think there is something toxic about the nhs management and system, the staff always seem demoralised, often reacting to questions and queries as though they just don't have the time for this and you've interrupted them like another demanding, nuisance patient. [that's a generalisation]

You have to wonder why the matron's culture was done away with and replaced by more middle management. [afaik] A bit like trying to run an army without sergeants.

The high point of matron was probably the mid-20th century, when she patrolled wards and ruled nurses, domestics, and patients with iron discipline - although rarely had any real power over the strategic running of the hospital.

In 1966, however, matron was abolished, as nursing fashion shifted to a less rigid and hierarchical approach.

 

[mack341]

Reading the BBC's writeup on Starmer's speech, contrary to Choppers I think he's making the right sounds, embracing brexit to some degree rather than giving any suggestion that he wants to tear it up. Sensible spending as well, whether he'd stick to these ideals is another matter, but today certainly won't harm his chance of becoming the next PM.

At the end of the day the better opposition you have, good ideas etc.. should lead to better govt by the ruling party, similar to companies with decent competition they have to raise their game.

 

[goatwack]

ChatGPT -

Scary, but accurate

(it's Kroffe's fault)

 

[dunover]

I know I'm a voice of one pissing in the breeze on this, but Corbyn was a genuine shot at a new way of running the UK's economy on a fairer and more redistributive footing that would have benefited most people to some reasonable extent or other.

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LOL...

So why did he deliver Labour's worst GE result in nearly 100 years?

Was is the fact he and his shower were absolutely hopeless at getting his message of economic utopia across or was it the fact he is a complete c*nt who resembled a 1970's scruffy lefty schoolteacher attending a CND rally?

Or was it him todaying up to vermin like Gerry Adams and Chavez? (a marxist dictator who managed in less than two decades to turn an oil-rich state into a subsistence one with starving children and a population fleeing over the borders en masse)

Kind of like you proposing Jimmy Savile should have been put in charge of the local Girl Guides because despite his known inherent dodginess, he did after all pledge to build them a new hut...

 

[pinnit2014]

I think there is something toxic about the nhs management and system, the staff always seem demoralised, often reacting to questions and queries as though they just don't have the time for this and you've interrupted them like another demanding, nuisance patient. [that's a generalisation]

You have to wonder why the matron's culture was done away with and replaced by more middle management. [afaik] A bit like trying to run an army without sergeants.

The high point of matron was probably the mid-20th century, when she patrolled wards and ruled nurses, domestics, and patients with iron discipline - although rarely had any real power over the strategic running of the hospital.

In 1966, however, matron was abolished, as nursing fashion shifted to a less rigid and hierarchical approach.

From working around the wards 2006-11 the reduction and removal of the old school Matrons, in terms of the running of the Wards and their cleanliness of such, was quite obvious. They ruled with somewhat of an iron rod but they were effective.

It was a very strict culture but it was effective - the getting in of private companies for things like cleaning was a major step backwards and those types of people have now retired

People go on, like Chopley, about young people filling these social care roles but it's very hit and miss. It has a low entrance level in terms of qualification and tbh it shows with some of their attitudes. A move from vocation to 'just a job' (which they may do half arsed) doesn't half show.

 

[pinnit2014]

ChatGPD -

Scary, but accurate

(it's Kroffe's fault)

View attachment 178227
View attachment 178228

It's unfair to say Choppers is from the IOM

He's clearly from Narnia

 

[dunover]

ChatGPD -

Scary, but accurate

(it's Kroffe's fault)

View attachment 178227
View attachment 178228

More from the same source @Kroffe and @goatwack found lol...

 

[Kroffe]

You guys need to stop tagging me.



Also.

 

[goatwack]

 

[Kroffe]

Someone should tell Rishi.

 

[goatwack]

 

[ChopleyIOM]

That speech was laughable. Almost as if he felt he had to say something for fear of going on a Truss like absence.
The pledge to half something which is almost certainly going to half anyway is top, taking us for suckers, territory.

Indeed, we have GARY calling out the nonsense 'pledge' on inflation. As he puts it, it's like pledging to increase temperatures by an average of ten degrees over the next six months. IT'S ABSOLUTELY GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY AND THERE IS NOTHING TO TAKE CREDIT FOR.

 

[goatwack]

Things going swimmingly in Sunak Land, as he held an emergency NHS Recovery Forum for the press to fawn over.

Chairing this meeting, we had him and a gaggle of health experts and cabinet ministers discuss the ailing NHS and how to tackle its many current problems going forward.

He also refused to state as to whether he actually uses private health care himself, which I think everyone kind of knows the answer to!

So, the PR machine rolls on, and all the 'right' things were said in front of the nation, instead of ceasing this desire to play hardball with the Unions and prolonging the country's suffering. From which, it has been rumoured, Mick Lynch is supposedly planning a GENERAL STRIKE action, the first in over a century!

So in view of that, Health Secretary Steve Barclay plans to move NHS beds into care homes, as part of an 'Emergency Winter Pressure Package', to the tune of £££millions

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[pinnit2014]

Same with the government's obsessions with delayed discharges (sounds good but the targets meant people were sent out of a hospital setting too soon in many cases) - it just creates additional pressure, on arguably the more strained community social care setting (to take these people earlier, on higher needs) and what doesn't happen? - there's no adequate transfer of budgets from the acute to the community: akin to passing a turd around on a game of pass the parcel.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

So, the PR machine rolls on, and all the 'right' things were said in front of the nation, instead of ceasing this desire to play hardball with the Unions and prolonging the country's suffering. From which, it has been rumoured, Mick Lynch is supposedly planning a GENERAL STRIKE action, the first in over a century!

Thank goodness Labour didn't get in or we'd have a load of strikes and industrial action. Or something. Winter of discontent anyone?

I'm entirely on the side of the workers/strikers in this, when you've got full time nurses using food banks inside the hospitals they work at, you know shit is fucked up.

Remember that Rishi Sunak is personally worth about seven hundred and fifty million quid, his father-in-law is a billionaire, if you're wondering whose side he's on.

The Tories hate the NHS on a fundamental level, when it's well funded and well managed, it's one of the best healthcare systems in the world, but it's an anathema to their mantra of 'the market always knows best', so now they are actively seeking to destroy it, whilst their compliant right-wing stooges in the media are like, 'LOOK OVER THERE, WILLIAM SLAPPED HARRY AND HARRY WAS USED AS A STALLION BY AN OLDER WOMAN WHO FUCKED HIM IN A FIELD'.

They only need to destroy the NHS once, and if they succeed, it will be lost forever.

 

[goatwack]

I agree with all of the above, but I think Liz Hurley's ruled herself out as having been that woman, so there is that

 

[pinnit2014]

It's a bit of a broad brush approach, though sensationalistic, using nurses using food banks as an example: i could claim the same of needing one and then when you ask me i say: Bonanza. Over-commitment on PCP deals? Lot more nuanced than 'i know nurses who use FB's'

 

[paul7388]

Oh seriously poor nurses using food banks. What about the millions of workers on minimum wage jobs actually bursting their arses every day just to try and survive many doing much more physically and mental challenges than the nurses.

Lets get it right. The NHS staff are no where near as poor as portrayed in the media. And if they are needing foodbanks then just think how bad of minimum wage workers are. You know those workers that have to go to work no matter how ill they are or all they would get would be SSP and no way to survive.

Fact is NHS staff get better benefits than most. 6 months full sick pay followed by 6 months half pay. 6 weeks holiday a year plus public holidays. A wage better than many and also time plus 40% for any unsociable hours which is classed as anything between 8pm and 6am plus a Saturday and nearly double time for every Sunday, Add that to enhanced pay plus a day in lieu if working a public holiday.

Yeah poor sods really are poorly paid, Sorry but to me many in NHS actually get paid to much for what they do. And it is a fact. Take my boy who is autistic. He has a job in NHS just working 5 hours a day on a Saturday and Sunday on lowest pay band. His hourly rate is about £15 an hour for his Saturday and nearly £20 an hour for the Sunday doing an unskilled job and thats the lowest pay they pay.

So without overtime and after deductions he clears nearly £700 a month for working 10 hours a week and also gets all the benefits like more holidays than most and if he phones in sick any weekend still gets full pay. Yeah poor NHS staff needing foodbanks. No wonder NHS is in a mess when even a receptionist, cleaner , porter etc. get £15 plus an hour on a Saturday and £20 an hour on a Sunday. think many workers doing harder jobs could only dream of wages like that.

 

[pinnit2014]

Said before in another thread, when i put an amount on it, i put as 10k all the perks you mentioned. I wish we'd get away with using certain public sector works as some sort of virtue beating sword to try and point score.

You forgot to mention they have non compulsory redundancies as one of their perks - try selling that to a private sector nursing company.

But yeah, sure, lets portray some sectors as being the hard done by ones even though, with pay scales fully public (including their increments), they're well aware of what they're getting into before they accept the job

My first full time job out of Uni was an entry level something like 12500 a year - student nurses average circa 26k? No foodbanks there even though according to some, i'd be doubling down on them on that salary

 

[goatwack]

And let's not talk about those transport- disruptors, the holy circle known as train drivers, and other associated TFL & co brethren, with many earning short of £100K p/a!

I think the NHS and nurses are held to some demiurge status, as opposed to many other workers, and have come to be revered as a result of us always being reminded of their worth. When relatively speaking, they're fairly adequately catered for (when they can find the time between posting Tik Tok dance routines, that is!)

Both sectors have hit the public in the balls and have coordinated their strikes at the most opportune time, which could almost be called 'convenient' and 'blackmail', given the highest demand at this time of year. Nor do I consider their proposed pay increases commensurate with everyone else's. Twenty percent?

Post Office workers aren't exempt from all this hullabaloo, but at least have a stronger case for action, as they bag around £25K a year, in all weathers, for what is basically a glorified, dog-swerving paper round, yet essential service nonetheless.....

 

[pinnit2014]

I was going to mention the train driver, mainly cos i know a TD who, despite being a qualified engineer, took it up because it paid more (with the overtime)

So, yeah, er, up the workers!

 

[mack341]

Thank goodness Labour didn't get in or we'd have a load of strikes and industrial action. Or something. Winter of discontent anyone?

I'm entirely on the side of the workers/strikers in this, when you've got full time nurses using food banks inside the hospitals they work at, you know shit is fucked up.

Remember that Rishi Sunak is personally worth about seven hundred and fifty million quid, his father-in-law is a billionaire, if you're wondering whose side he's on.

The Tories hate the NHS on a fundamental level, when it's well funded and well managed, it's one of the best healthcare systems in the world, but it's an anathema to their mantra of 'the market always knows best', so now they are actively seeking to destroy it, whilst their compliant right-wing stooges in the media are like, 'LOOK OVER THERE, WILLIAM SLAPPED HARRY AND HARRY WAS USED AS A STALLION BY AN OLDER WOMAN WHO FUCKED HIM IN A FIELD'.

They only need to destroy the NHS once, and if they succeed, it will be lost forever.

I agree re the distraction side of things, but the last part, surely the labour party if minded to could rebuild a destroyed nhs, it's not so magical and of the moment as to not be replicable.

It might even be better if it had to go through a 'baptism of fire' [to borrow a cm term] in order to work out and excise the problems.

Personally I think put the women's institute in total control for a year and it would be much better functioning organisation [this is an advance development of my matron theory!].

 

[pinnit2014]

Mack's embraced the Femme.