Baptism by Fire - failed Tropica Casino - Rival Casino - cancelled BBF

[hoff1985]

I have no doubt that Bryan will let them try again, but my guess is that we have to be patient.
They know that what happened was wrong and that changes have to be made.
They are at least still here and that is for me the most important thing.

There are a lot of casinos here that are not accredited and that also are active. They just have to keep on being one of them again for a while longer. That's not a bad thing, and I'm happy that I have a group of Rival that I trust again

I agree. Also accredited doesn't mean that it's an "outstanding" casino. It means that it is absolutely safe to play there... But as we all know when it comes to Customer Support and fast payments there are non-accredited casinos that perform better than accredited ones.

 

[The Dude]

I really appreciate everyone's comments - and yes, I've been thinking about this a lot but I've decided that I still cannot endorse this casino. It's been mentioned that it doesn't seem fair for me to pull the BBF for one mistake, but the thing is it was not just one mistake, it was/is an environment within the administration that generated those responses.

I am open to re-look at this in a few months, but for now Tropica is being listed in the Reservation.

 

[chayton]

I understand your decision Bryan, but I do hope that in a few months this casino can try again. After all, the dispute with that player was settled and it's done and dusted. I'm in Canada and I can't play at Rival anyhow, but if I could I'd play at this group without hesitation. Funny that in a way, hearing them coming down like a sledgehammer on fraudsters makes me like them even more.

One thing that sucks about this and other cases recently is that it seems pretty one sided as far as what the player can say or do and what the casinos can. Really as players we have the casinos over a barrel. We can slander them all over the internet and call them crooks and cheats and make up stories and commit fraud etc. And when the casino people respond, then we can say a) How rude they are or b) How they're breaching privacy by talking about what WE'VE done.

Unless a fraudulent player gets outed during a PAB and gets banned here, the players seem to be holding all the cards. And even if they do get banned from here there's always going to be another place for them to go tell their lies. If I was a casino rep I'd find it really frustrating having my hands tied like that while some players are bashing me or ripping me off.

Or maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety. Anyhow Dieter, I hope you stick around for a few months and try again, you've got a lot of fans here.

 

[gagamel]

There was one issue with a fraudster in another forum.

That killed the BBF.

In this forum were no issues with this group.

 

[coxwel]

There was one issue with a fraudster in another forum.

That killed the BBF.

In this forum were no issues with this group.

Sure, so it was and i appreciate that.

It´s not about if there´s an issue "in this forum", the issue that came to light showed that in the backround of this operation something was/is not right which can not be looked over. I´m glad that bryan made his move, and this gives me confidence in the casinomeister accrediation/bbf procedure. (standards)
Cm sticks to it´s standards and not! tries to justify or talk an issue small by stating "it was just this one mistake" like many fellow tropica players seem to do here. But the fact they forget is that it´s not about a playing experience here (bonus/wagering/payout etc..) This issue showed us something we would normally not see or hear of as a normal customer. Shit happens and Tropica got caught for that, dont waste time on excuses, they should from now on seriously go on another approach and have the chance to become accedited again, so time will tell.

And again, for me i just do not care if they have xy "great games" "bonsues" whatever, this issue is about sth that is not to compensate with fast payouts or great bonuses. I would say the same if this would be a casino i regulary paly at, which tropica was/is not, for other reasons.

Some members shouldnt just praise or fight for casino xy only! because they have a good experience with them or are a heavy player there. Seems like this can cause a lack of a healthy distance one should have to everything in life, trying to get a fair and objective view/opinion on things.

 

[rshkrn]

After reading through all I'd support CM's decision, mainly because BBF guidelines should be the same for every casino....the reputation or goodwill of any particular casino should not translate into X "allowable" mistakes making it unfair towards others, even if 100% of the players have had a good experience there!

that said I am positive in a few months we could have them back in there and clear it

 

[jetset]

I support CM's decision here completely; something was wrong with the management environment within this company which resulted in it descending to such an unprofessional level, and CM needs to be sure that the problem has been fixed and the chances of a recurrence are minimal before he can trust it with a CM stamp of approval.

A period to reflect and improve will hopefully result in a more disciplined and business-like operation that we can all respect in future.

 

[Balthazar]

There was one issue with a fraudster in another forum.

That killed the BBF.

In this forum were no issues with this group.

Accreditation isn't a thing for CM forum members, it's a green light for players in general. It's very relevant how they treat players that post elsewhere.

 

[paul7388]

Accreditation isn't a thing for CM forum members, it's a green light for players in general. It's very relevant how they treat players that post elsewhere.

Very true and I believe that. But several issues can be just as important to players.

Take Paddy Power for instance. They have recently lost their accredited status to then get it reinstated. Personally I like there posts as they appeal to my sense of humour. But and its a Big BUT. For years they post on a daily basis their funny comments which often cross the line of being offensive. Many times their posts on Facebook etc. are offensive to many and they have had countless complaints. It gives them a hell of a lot of publicity tho. My point is tho that if they can continue to offend some people yet get a second chance here then its only right that This group get a second chance as well.

 

[hoff1985]

Very true and I believe that. But several issues can be just important to players.

Take Paddy Power for instance. They have recently lost their accredited status to then get it reinstated. Personally I like there posts as they appeal to my sense of humour. But and its a Big BUT. For years they post on a daily basis their funny comments which often cross the line of being offensive. Many times their posts on Facebook etc. are offensive to many and they have had countless complaints. It gives them a hell of a lot of publicity tho. My point is tho that if they can continue to offend some people yet get a second chance here then its only right that This group get a second chance as well.

I strongly agree. And i'm sure if we would dig deep we would find some old bad examples in other forums for other accredited casinos as well...

 

[peteyweestro]

I'm not sure but i don't recall Bryan ever saying this group would never get another chance, he just put them on the reservation for now and will go back in the future sometime if they would like and see about giving it another shot. Maybe i misunderstood but i think i didn't.

 

[suzecat]

I'm not sure but i don't recall Bryan ever saying this group would never get another chance, he just put them on the reservation for now and will go back in the future sometime if they would like and see about giving it another shot. Maybe i misunderstood but i think i didn't.

I recall it that way too. Bryan asked for some modifications from Tropica's management and this time on Reservation gives them an opportunity to make the changes IF THEY WANT TO. Their choice.

 

[silcnlayc]

Worthless bonuses

Once again, I have run across a bonus that is worthless. Again, the casino has found a way to not pay. Had a few hundred dollars built up only to find that the max cash out was $54 on a free chip (2x chip cash-out, really people, get real!!??)

So just to act like the casino, I went to cash out the $54 (which I was totally done with this casino anyway after reading max cash-out) only to find that the minimum withdrawal by wire (only option open to withdraw) was $100!!! SERIOUSLY! I mean talk about ridiculous tactics to keep a person from withdrawing....back to uninstall after I play out the few bucks in the account. Will NEVER return unless MAJOR changes are made.

Have a nice day Tropica.

 

[Googobucs]

Once again, I have run across a bonus that is worthless. Again, the casino has found a way to not pay. Had a few hundred dollars built up only to find that the max cash out was $54 on a free chip (2x chip cash-out, really people, get real!!??)

So just to act like the casino, I went to cash out the $54 (which I was totally done with this casino anyway after reading max cash-out) only to find that the minimum withdrawal by wire (only option open to withdraw) was $100!!! SERIOUSLY! I mean talk about ridiculous tactics to keep a person from withdrawing....back to uninstall after I play out the few bucks in the account. Will NEVER return unless MAJOR changes are made.

Have a nice day Tropica.View attachment 50761View attachment 50760

I agree that they should not offer bonuses that pay less than $100 to US players because of exactly what you pointed out but........

Also, keep in mind that the bonus of $27 is not withdraw-able so you really have a balance of $34.40 to withdraw. Go to chat and have them process the withdraw manually and then reverse it.
You can keep playing with the $34.40 balance and build it up to a max of $200 that can be withdrawn.
See this term:
5.14 Should you reverse winnings from a no deposit bonus and continue to play with or without a bonus, the total winnings will be capped at $ / £ / € 200 or currency equivalent.

good luck

 

[silcnlayc]

I agree that they should not offer bonuses that pay less than $100 to US players because of exactly what you pointed out but........

Also, keep in mind that the bonus of $27 is not withdraw-able so you really have a balance of $34.40 to withdraw. Go to chat and have them process the withdraw manually and then reverse it.
You can keep playing with the $34.40 balance and build it up to a max of $200 that can be withdrawn.
See this term:
5.14 Should you reverse winnings from a no deposit bonus and continue to play with or without a bonus, the total winnings will be capped at $ / £ / € 200 or currency equivalent.

good luck

Thank you for the info. Not worth the trouble. Plenty of other casinos that do not have such ridiculous terms....I mean...really...

.

 

[rockycatt]

Thank you for the info. Not worth the trouble. Plenty of other casinos that do not have such ridiculous terms....I mean...really...

.

I did this bonus this morning and went to live chat and was in formed that he would finalize the bonus so I could carry on playing to win over or to the 100$ min with drawl or go for more $ gains and it was done

I was happy for the the results of my experience I played on with no restrictions and got to about 90$ then my game slid south I shroud of parked the money and picked up playing at a later time

but very happy the way they worked the less than 100$ win for me

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

Thank you for the info. Not worth the trouble. Plenty of other casinos that do not have such ridiculous terms....I mean...really...

.

Hi,

It is regrettable that US customers have a min cashout of $100, but that limit is governed by our wire provider. When we changed our offers a few months ago, we made it so that US players could cash out $100 on free chips and those offers still run every day.

The problem however, is that our cashouts went through the roof on free money, so we decided for this offer to not allow $100 cashouts. The offer was available on 5 brands, so effectively, if we allowed $100 cashout, we would risk $500 per player. And, as Googobucs said, you could reverse winnings and cashout $200, effectively pushing the risk to $1,000 per player. As a player myself, I don’t think that is ridiculous. At the end of the day, it is free money and you could easily turn the $54 into $200. It's supposed to be the thought that counts.

As this is your second complaint about our bonuses this week, I really wish you would log in and review each offer and compare it with our competitors. Your perception of our bonuses is wrong and to post negative feedback twice without having all the facts on hand means you’re not posting accurate information.

For what it is worth: We give 50% cashback every day. We give 20% cashback a week. We give 10% cashback per month. We give a free chip every weekend (which allows $100 cashout). There is a free chip at each brand on different days of the week (which allows $100 cashout). There are 8 bonus offers at 5 brands per day (total 40 per day). 3 of these offers have low wagering and no Max Cashout (15 per day). You do not get this anywhere else.

A few months ago, we changed our entire business model based on feedback and advice from members here and yet, it’s still not good enough?

Regards,
Dieter

 

[silcnlayc]

Yes, your casino is not the only casino with this platform that offers these silly terms on chips and bonuses. I have certain amounts that make it worth withdrawing due to the cost of fees and $200 isn't it....not worth the play due to the withdrawal fees ..It was my mistake in playing the free chip without reading the T&C's. I usually ignore anything with a cash out limit under 10 times and a chip less than $50.

There is a suggestion, make chips cash-able if you offer them, at a minimum 10x the amount of the chip offer. This would stop all those withdrawals on chip wins less than $100. On another note, what is your fee for a bank wire?

Hi,

It is regrettable that US customers have a min cashout of $100, but that limit is governed by our wire provider. When we changed our offers a few months ago, we made it so that US players could cash out $100 on free chips and those offers still run every day.

The problem however, is that our cashouts went through the roof on free money, so we decided for this offer to not allow $100 cashouts. The offer was available on 5 brands, so effectively, if we allowed $100 cashout, we would risk $500 per player. And, as Googobucs said, you could reverse winnings and cashout $200, effectively pushing the risk to $1,000 per player. As a player myself, I don’t think that is ridiculous. At the end of the day, it is free money and you could easily turn the $54 into $200. It's supposed to be the thought that counts.

As this is your second complaint about our bonuses this week, I really wish you would log in and review each offer and compare it with our competitors. Your perception of our bonuses is wrong and to post negative feedback twice without having all the facts on hand means you’re not posting accurate information.

For what it is worth: We give 50% cashback every day. We give 20% cashback a week. We give 10% cashback per month. We give a free chip every weekend (which allows $100 cashout). There is a free chip at each brand on different days of the week (which allows $100 cashout). There are 8 bonus offers at 5 brands per day (total 40 per day). 3 of these offers have low wagering and no Max Cashout (15 per day). You do not get this anywhere else.

A few months ago, we changed our entire business model based on feedback and advice from members here and yet, it’s still not good enough?

Regards,
Dieter

 

[bigjohn]

A few months ago, we changed our entire business model based on feedback and advice from members here and yet, it’s still not good enough?

Regards,
Dieter

You guys are definitely 'good enough' and then some. There is always going to be players that would like to see different things change or feel that certain things aren't fair.

Just as long you put it all in your T&C's the player can decide what they want to do.

You have been run through the proverbial 'mill' here lately but don't let it discourage you from participating here and keep up the good work you are doing.

You supporters way outnumber you detractors.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

It is regrettable that US customers have a min cashout of $100, but that limit is governed by our wire provider. When we changed our offers a few months ago, we made it so that US players could cash out $100 on free chips and those offers still run every day.

The problem however, is that our cashouts went through the roof on free money, so we decided for this offer to not allow $100 cashouts. The offer was available on 5 brands, so effectively, if we allowed $100 cashout, we would risk $500 per player. And, as Googobucs said, you could reverse winnings and cashout $200, effectively pushing the risk to $1,000 per player. As a player myself, I don’t think that is ridiculous. At the end of the day, it is free money and you could easily turn the $54 into $200. It's supposed to be the thought that counts.

As this is your second complaint about our bonuses this week, I really wish you would log in and review each offer and compare it with our competitors. Your perception of our bonuses is wrong and to post negative feedback twice without having all the facts on hand means you’re not posting accurate information.

For what it is worth: We give 50% cashback every day. We give 20% cashback a week. We give 10% cashback per month. We give a free chip every weekend (which allows $100 cashout). There is a free chip at each brand on different days of the week (which allows $100 cashout). There are 8 bonus offers at 5 brands per day (total 40 per day). 3 of these offers have low wagering and no Max Cashout (15 per day). You do not get this anywhere else.

A few months ago, we changed our entire business model based on feedback and advice from members here and yet, it’s still not good enough?

Regards,
Dieter

If the $54 can be reversed and then turned into $200, surely this is a GREATER risk than simply setting the max to $100. Since US players can't ever win from the published terms, the somewhat hidden tip of you simply having to cash out, then reverse in order to get a $200 limit will end up being known by most of your players in time, and they will ALL present a risk of using this tip rather than settling for the $54 as advertised.

The resolution of this case has itself broadcast the fact that the $54 max is easily turned into a $200 max simply by making two internal transactions within the casino lobby.

If you had just let players go for $100, many who managed to get $54 might press on and lose the lot trying for the $100. Now, if they can, they will just withdraw the $54 ASAP in the belief this is their only option.

There is absolutely no point in offering a bonus who's terms make a cash out impossible, it's an insult to players. Drop this and make it 7 offers instead of 8, but 7 offers where it IS possible to cash out for ALL players.

The US is the biggest market of all, and for the few softwares that still service it, the most important, so it's the US market that should be the main focus for the design and marketing teams.

To manage the outflow, there should be a budget for free money withdrawals, and when this is reached in any month, marketing just stop posting free chip offers and move the focus over to getting players to deposit. This would probably lead to free chips being more prevalent at the start of a month, with deposit offers dominating towards the end.

 

[silcnlayc]

If the $54 can be reversed and then turned into $200, surely this is a GREATER risk than simply setting the max to $100. Since US players can't ever win from the published terms, the somewhat hidden tip of you simply having to cash out, then reverse in order to get a $200 limit will end up being known by most of your players in time, and they will ALL present a risk of using this tip rather than settling for the $54 as advertised.

The resolution of this case has itself broadcast the fact that the $54 max is easily turned into a $200 max simply by making two internal transactions within the casino lobby.

If you had just let players go for $100, many who managed to get $54 might press on and lose the lot trying for the $100. Now, if they can, they will just withdraw the $54 ASAP in the belief this is their only option.

There is absolutely no point in offering a bonus who's terms make a cash out impossible, it's an insult to players. Drop this and make it 7 offers instead of 8, but 7 offers where it IS possible to cash out for ALL players.

The US is the biggest market of all, and for the few softwares that still service it, the most important, so it's the US market that should be the main focus for the design and marketing teams.

To manage the outflow, there should be a budget for free money withdrawals, and when this is reached in any month, marketing just stop posting free chip offers and move the focus over to getting players to deposit. This would probably lead to free chips being more prevalent at the start of a month, with deposit offers dominating towards the end.

What an amazingly simple and sensible idea! So sensible, casinos couldn't quite figure it out themselves because of being too busy trying to make sure there was a catch to anything they offer. The casinos are so focused on making sure their offers are so convoluted that it makes players not want to play at such casino... .

.

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

Yes, your casino is not the only casino with this platform that offers these silly terms on chips and bonuses. I have certain amounts that make it worth withdrawing due to the cost of fees and $200 isn't it....not worth the play due to the withdrawal fees ..It was my mistake in playing the free chip without reading the T&C's. I usually ignore anything with a cash out limit under 10 times and a chip less than $50.

There is a suggestion, make chips cash-able if you offer them, at a minimum 10x the amount of the chip offer. This would stop all those withdrawals on chip wins less than $100. On another note, what is your fee for a bank wire?

Just to clarify, you are saying that $200 FREE MONEY is not worth withdrawing because of fees? I.e. getting $155 FREE is "silly"?

You have not deposited at our casinos and we offer you $200 (x 5) FREE and we're ridiculous?

 

[gagamel]

Hi silcnlayc or whatever

27$ free for every casino I deposited within this group makes 135$ in total. Well, it`s a 135$ Free Chip. Not too bad in my opinion. You can`t cash out, that`s shit but you would know how to make a withdrawal possible if you would read the T&C`s before you start to play.

Seems like you have a hobby which is talking bad about casinos ( I just read a lot of your posts and it`s always the same)

 

[coxwel]

Hi silcnlayc or whatever

27$ free for every casino I deposited within this group makes 135$ in total. Well, it`s a 135$ Free Chip. Not too bad in my opinion. You can`t cash out, that`s shit but you would know how to make a withdrawal possible if you would read the T&C`s before you start to play.

Seems like you have a hobby which is talking bad about casinos ( I just read a lot of your posts and it`s always the same)

Just one tip:

You shouldn´t judge members here in such an arrogant way without knowing what youre talking about. She´s been a member here way longer than you and doenst talk bad about casinos. She´s just analyzing things and pointing out specific pro´s and con´s.

For me it seems your hobby is to defend tropica no matter what. If you have a good experience with them, good for you. But you should respect that some individuals here think different about this and have a more balanced and informed opinion on specific aspects. Don´t take it as an personal insult if somebody critices tropica casino, opinions differ and people should respect it.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just to clarify, you are saying that $200 FREE MONEY is not worth withdrawing because of fees? I.e. getting $155 FREE is "silly"?

You have not deposited at our casinos and we offer you $200 (x 5) FREE and we're ridiculous?

It's not just a case of "not worth" but "impossible" in the case of the one with a $54 cap unless the player knows of the formerly undocumented work around of two internal transactions to convert the $54 into a chip with no further WR and a new cap of $200.

As for fees, it's the fixed fees that are the biggest problem, not fees based on a percentage of the amount.

It's really only $200x5 for free if you know the secret, otherwise it's $54x5.

For CM members though, it is now $200x5, as the secret's out.

One has to wonder whether this cap conversion trick works at other Rival casinos too.

 

[gagamel]

It's not just a case of "not worth" but "impossible" in the case of the one with a $54 cap unless the player knows of the formerly undocumented work around of two internal transactions to convert the $54 into a chip with no further WR and a new cap of $200.

As for fees, it's the fixed fees that are the biggest problem, not fees based on a percentage of the amount.

It's really only $200x5 for free if you know the secret, otherwise it's $54x5.

For CM members though, it is now $200x5, as the secret's out.

One has to wonder whether this cap conversion trick works at other Rival casinos too.

It`s not a secret. It is in their T&C`s.

As far as I know most members know that the T&C`s are to be read and understood. I`m not from the USA but I knew this "secret" for a long time because I can read.

 

[gagamel]

Just one tip:

You shouldn´t judge members here in such an arrogant way without knowing what youre talking about. She´s been a member here way longer than you and doenst talk bad about casinos. She´s just analyzing things and pointing out specific pro´s and con´s.

For me it seems your hobby is to defend tropica no matter what. If you have a good experience with them, good for you. But you should respect that some individuals here think different about this and have a more balanced and informed opinion on specific aspects. Don´t take it as an personal insult if somebody critices tropica casino, opinions differ and people should respect it.

You have a PM

Feel free to reply

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

It's not just a case of "not worth" but "impossible" in the case of the one with a $54 cap unless the player knows of the formerly undocumented work around of two internal transactions to convert the $54 into a chip with no further WR and a new cap of $200.

As for fees, it's the fixed fees that are the biggest problem, not fees based on a percentage of the amount.

It's really only $200x5 for free if you know the secret, otherwise it's $54x5.

For CM members though, it is now $200x5, as the secret's out.

One has to wonder whether this cap conversion trick works at other Rival casinos too.

Hi,

I am not sure why you refer to 2 internal transactions? A player simply needs to contact Live Chat and request for the promotion to be ended. The balance is then $57.

As for the big secret, I am afraid it's not a secret. The terms are on our site. They cover this scenario and clearly stipulate a Max Cashout of $200 is permitted. It can't be a secret if we actively persuade people to do it (and have it published).

I can't speak for other Rivals, but "trick" implies some an attempt to deceive. As the most knowledgeable person here, I would have thought you would have had a quick glance at our terms and established the fact that the terms were posted and covered this subject in absolute clarity.

I really think you should take a second to read our terms (as this is not the first time you have posted something factually incorrect about our terms in the past 24 hours). If after reading, you still feel it's still one big trick, please feel free to let me know what / where / how and I will gladly review it.

Regards,
Dieter

 

[DarkMage]

I've only ever made one deposit to the "reaffilates" group of casino and I remember very clearly the "deposit confirmation" email, this line was something I had never seen from any casino anywhere in many many many years of playing online casinos..

Kindly note that our processors collect all disputed transactions. Funds are collected at a cost of $150 per transaction. Your credit rating is also affected by this fraud. Please do not play here if you are thinking of committing fraud in this manner.

To be honest it's un-needed and very aggressive even on a deposit confirmation email, I have not deposited again partly because of this...I don't believe a casino needs to resort to fear tatics


I've been playing online many years and have never chargedback

 

[coxwel]

Kindly note that our processors collect all disputed transactions. Funds are collected at a cost of $150 per transaction. Your credit rating is also affected by this fraud. Please do not play here if you are thinking of committing fraud in this manner.

omg what a bluff. does anyone believe this? i think real fraudsters just laugh about it, as in reality they can´t collect any fee nor take any influence on credit ratings. in my opinion they should avoid this because as we see on your example it makes honest customers feel insulted and them looking very unprofessional.

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

I've only ever made one deposit to the "reaffilates" group of casino and I remember very clearly the "deposit confirmation" email, this line was something I had never seen from any casino anywhere in many many many years of playing online casinos..




To be honest it's un-needed and very aggressive even on a deposit confirmation email, I have not deposited again partly because of this...I don't believe a casino needs to resort to fear tatics


I've been playing online many years and have never chargedback

Hi,

Our processors insist on having it there as a deterrent to potential fraudsters. I know it's hard to read tone of a message and each person will read it differently. It was meant to be seen as a polite reminder that fraud would not be tolerated.

I will have marketing edit it to reflect the message we're trying to convey.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Cheers,
Dieter

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

I am not sure why you refer to 2 internal transactions? A player simply needs to contact Live Chat and request for the promotion to be ended. The balance is then $57.

As for the big secret, I am afraid it's not a secret. The terms are on our site. They cover this scenario and clearly stipulate a Max Cashout of $200 is permitted. It can't be a secret if we actively persuade people to do it (and have it published).

I can't speak for other Rivals, but "trick" implies some an attempt to deceive. As the most knowledgeable person here, I would have thought you would have had a quick glance at our terms and established the fact that the terms were posted and covered this subject in absolute clarity.

I really think you should take a second to read our terms (as this is not the first time you have posted something factually incorrect about our terms in the past 24 hours). If after reading, you still feel it's still one big trick, please feel free to let me know what / where / how and I will gladly review it.

Regards,
Dieter

Why not just cut the bureaucracy and have it a straight $200 cap?

If you REALLY intend everyone to do this, why have these extra hoops been added that necessitate players contact CS or to withdraw, then reverse, the $54.

By "trickery", I mean "marketing". The hope is that by adding a couple of hoops, you will cut down on the number of players who make it past the withdrawal. This thread illustrates that at least one player had no idea there was a way to withdraw $200 from an offer where the terms stipulate a max of $54. This kind of marketing is a kind of deception as it places one or more unnecessary obstacles in the way of a customer achieving an outcome that is "intended to be achieved" by the vendor.

It's no different to the deception that often surrounds free spin offers where a headline of "100 free spins for just a $10 deposit" fools the player into thinking it's 100 "normal" spins, only to find out that it has been set to 1c and 1 line on a multi line slot, and actually only worth $1. This is not theoretical either, the Belle Rock group actually did this one Christmas, and players were less than impressed.

In this offer, the player will see the "headline" that it's a max of $54, and may be fooled (and has been in the case of the OP), that this is it, and that if this is lower than the minimum permitted withdrawal, it's an offer from which a withdrawal is impossible.

If you showed it as a max of $200 instead as the "headline", with no hoops needing to be jumped through, then EVERY player will see the offer for exactly what you claim it is intended to be, so why is this a problem? Further, it would be far more attractive with the truth revealed, and many more players will feel it's worth while, rather than dismissing it as "pointless".

or is THIS the problem, and why it has been obfuscated somewhat so that a veil needs to be lifted in order to see the true nature from behind the headline.

 

[Refilliates Casinos]

If the $54 can be reversed and then turned into $200, surely this is a GREATER risk than simply setting the max to $100. Since US players can't ever win from the published terms, the somewhat hidden tip of you simply having to cash out, then reverse in order to get a $200 limit will end up being known by most of your players in time, and they will ALL present a risk of using this tip rather than settling for the $54 as advertised.

The resolution of this case has itself broadcast the fact that the $54 max is easily turned into a $200 max simply by making two internal transactions within the casino lobby.

If you had just let players go for $100, many who managed to get $54 might press on and lose the lot trying for the $100. Now, if they can, they will just withdraw the $54 ASAP in the belief this is their only option.

There is absolutely no point in offering a bonus who's terms make a cash out impossible, it's an insult to players. Drop this and make it 7 offers instead of 8, but 7 offers where it IS possible to cash out for ALL players.

The US is the biggest market of all, and for the few softwares that still service it, the most important, so it's the US market that should be the main focus for the design and marketing teams.

To manage the outflow, there should be a budget for free money withdrawals, and when this is reached in any month, marketing just stop posting free chip offers and move the focus over to getting players to deposit. This would probably lead to free chips being more prevalent at the start of a month, with deposit offers dominating towards the end.

I will try and put it into perspective:

1. We gave $27 to show appreciation for Thanksgiving Day. We didn't attach a "MUST DEPOSIT" clause or ask for anything. It was $27 free to play a Thanksgiving themed game. Only 54 x wagering and to be more generous, we offered 2 x Max Cashout.
2. Now, a player meets wagering. They have $57 (free dollars) to play with.
3. A US player with $57 complains that they can't withdraw because the min is $100. We tell them to play until they get to $100 or bust out.
4. But, that's not good enough either; so we say why not play until $200 and then cashout and guess what, that's not good enough either.

Point is this: That even though we're been sincere and really generous, there will always be those who will find fault. It's one of the reasons Igor left and I am certain it is a reason many other Reps no longer take an active part in this forum.

I have been a member here since 2001 (and I mean logging in almost every day). I read almost every post and I keep my ear to the ground to stay on top of things. I know what players want and like and we strive to be the best all the time. If you and other members here can't see that, then all the positive feedback from your peers has fallen on deaf ears.

A sensible man would read all the positive posts and ignore these frivolous ones. If anyone has a real problem at any of our brands, please contact me. If however, you choose to complain about free money not been good enough, or not reading the terms, then we will simply ignore it. If you want to suggest changes, then do so politely and professionally via PM and I assure you, it will considered.

Thanks to everyone for their continued support and encouragement. It's good to see our efforts paying off.

Regards,
Dieter

 

[Cleveland]

Truth be told even if they only attended the money to be "play" money, which they didn't....it really wouldn't matter as it was free!

It wasn't a secret as the information is fairly clear and easy to obtain. Me knowing it should be proof enough

And I can't help but think how easy it is for some to meet these requirements. Many of us has been there. For example I just was playing at a casino that had given me $ 15.00. I immediately knew there was a max cashout or some sort of catch but I figured what the hell lets burn through it on blackjack, so I can make a real money deposit. I turned it into $ 450 in a matter of minutes. Many players have turned small amounts into insanely large balances. Which is why so many enjoy playing 3dice tournaments for those $ 5.00 real money wins, or $ 10.00 real money wins, as they know it's very possible to turn that into a much larger balance. Not saying this will happen all the time, just saying many of us have done it, more than a couple of times. As I speak I'm sure players somewhere are doing it.

To say it's too much of a hassle to play with free money and try to get it to $ 200 is just silly. As for not knowing that the max cap could be $ 200 by doing "x" well I suggest reading more, and asking questions. I don't agree with many of Rival's bonus money rules, especially where a deposit is attached, but in the end it's bonus money, I simply don't take it, or wait for one I like. It's one thing to post complaining about stupid rules as we all do, but the way the complaining is going on in this thread you would think this particular casino is being run by the devil himself. Fact is we are giving this casino (the rep) a hard time over nothing.

 

[jetset]

Man, you have to be tough to stick around here as an online casino rep.

Earlier in this thread I criticised Tropica management for the manner in which the original poster was handled, and recommended that Bryan give them a time-out to sort out their problems and reflect on their policies, but I have to say that I find myself having some sympathy for Dieter in the way he is being put through the mangle now despite his unfailingly patient and polite responses and offers to consider any practical and serious recommendations.

May I suggest that posters respond to him with the same courtesy - you can disagree with a person without being aggressive.

 

[spintee]

Man, you have to be tough to stick around here as an online casino rep.

Earlier in this thread I criticised Tropica management for the manner in which the original poster was handled, and recommended that Bryan give them a time-out to sort out their problems and reflect on their policies, but I have to say that I find myself having some sympathy for Dieter in the way he is being put through the mangle now despite his unfailingly patient and polite responses and offers to consider any practical and serious recommendations.

May I suggest that posters respond to him with the same courtesy - you can disagree with a person without being aggressive.

Well said, Yes there will be alot of people that do not like the formula that rival has, But which other casino gives you as much as theses? Yes there is alot of caps of withdraw amount ect but its free, I take my hat of to Dieter, It is a shame about the BBF, Alot of hard work just to be took away due to sore losers, Alot of work goes on what we do not see & the reps seem to get the stick end of it,

I personally do not like the machines other wise they would have most of my deposits,

Also a note to Dieter that your hard work does not go unmissed

 

[hoff1985]

WTF?

I thought all is said here but now i have to post again...

WTF is going on here?? Are you guys really attacking a casino that gives away 27$ free money??

I would NEVER! complain about free money, because it is FREE.

Why not just think that is generous that they give away that free money? I usually NEVER play with free money but i took the Thanksgiving thing and cashout out 54$, why not... ?

I would totally agree if the regular bonuses (xyz % matcho Bonuses) would be unable to beat, but the terms for regular bonuses at Tropica are very good. I never take the high ones with a max cashout, but with the others i had lots of success and of course lots of losses, thats how it is.

But to attack a casino because they give away free money?? WTF? The result will be that the casino will not do free chips anymore because of things like this!

And tell me another casino that gives you 27$ and let's you revert and play again until you can cashout 200$... I don't know any!

Sometimes i really don't understand people.... Why not start a rant about accredited casinos where you can loose 1000's of Dollars without a cashout or a bonus, and still if you ask them they don't even give you 5 free spins or a 10% match? THAT would be a reason to start a rant.

I just having more and more of a problem that members here do not rate fair. We have accredited casinos that make the service worse regardings payout timeframes, etc. and people still say "It's fine, they're safe and accredited". And here a casino gives out free money and it's not good enough.... Crazy....

 

[bigjohn]

Man, you have to be tough to stick around here as an online casino rep.

Earlier in this thread I criticised Tropica management for the manner in which the original poster was handled, and recommended that Bryan give them a time-out to sort out their problems and reflect on their policies, but I have to say that I find myself having some sympathy for Dieter in the way he is being put through the mangle now despite his unfailingly patient and polite responses and offers to consider any practical and serious recommendations.

May I suggest that posters respond to him with the same courtesy - you can disagree with a person without being aggressive.

Thank you for that, I am glad somebody spelled it out like that.

I also have a suggestion, how about if potential players read the T&C's, figure out if Tropica meets their needs and expectations and if they do, play there. Then, if you follow their terms and you run into troubles, PM the rep to try to sort out the problem as CM has asked us to do.

I would really like to see this thread put on hold as long as the BBF is on hold because this is pointless now.

 

[rockycatt]

this is the only rival that I play because of dieter there rep has been so transparent and helpful we are limited here in the states

I haven't cashed out yet but I have been in a position to do so a few times but I do feel comfortable playing this casino

proviso: as they say , they showed a human weakness' trait in dealing with a possible fraudster and did settle the complaint ., so to my twisted mind its like trying to find judgment at a messed up traffic light intersection were all ways are affected

because were all human Rockycatt

 

[vinylweatherman]

I will try and put it into perspective:

1. We gave $27 to show appreciation for Thanksgiving Day. We didn't attach a "MUST DEPOSIT" clause or ask for anything. It was $27 free to play a Thanksgiving themed game. Only 54 x wagering and to be more generous, we offered 2 x Max Cashout.
2. Now, a player meets wagering. They have $57 (free dollars) to play with.
3. A US player with $57 complains that they can't withdraw because the min is $100. We tell them to play until they get to $100 or bust out.
4. But, that's not good enough either; so we say why not play until $200 and then cashout and guess what, that's not good enough either.

Point is this: That even though we're been sincere and really generous, there will always be those who will find fault. It's one of the reasons Igor left and I am certain it is a reason many other Reps no longer take an active part in this forum.

I have been a member here since 2001 (and I mean logging in almost every day). I read almost every post and I keep my ear to the ground to stay on top of things. I know what players want and like and we strive to be the best all the time. If you and other members here can't see that, then all the positive feedback from your peers has fallen on deaf ears.

A sensible man would read all the positive posts and ignore these frivolous ones. If anyone has a real problem at any of our brands, please contact me. If however, you choose to complain about free money not been good enough, or not reading the terms, then we will simply ignore it. If you want to suggest changes, then do so politely and professionally via PM and I assure you, it will considered.

Thanks to everyone for their continued support and encouragement. It's good to see our efforts paying off.

Regards,
Dieter

This is where you don't make much sense.

Earlier, you claimed that the reason you DIDN'T have a max cashout of $100 on this offer was that the withdrawals from such offers "went through the roof". However, it turns out that you DO still have not only a $100 max cashout, but you have even allowed it to double to $200. If withdrawals "went through the roof" before, how does doubling the potential cap help reduce this figure

Surely, you should REDUCE your exposure by cutting the potential cap back to $100, and then state this clearly on the offer page, no ifs, no buts, no juggling with internal transactions and reversals or getting CS to "finalise" so that it can become $200. US players can reach the minimum $100 to withdraw, and no one else can accuse you of making something simple overly complicated, nor of giving "special treatment" to one group of players over another.

You could further reduce risk by having a "one per group" policy on free chips, so that any one particular chip can only be used ONCE per player in any one of your five skins. If you were, say, running three different free chip promotions, it's currently the case that by having an account at all five skins, a player could have 15 free chips. A one per group policy would cut this right back to 3. Players who only have an account at one of your brands will not notice the difference. Players who have opened accounts at all five are more likely to be "bonus seekers", and these are the ones having their access to free chips cut back.

A side effect of not allowing the same offer to be had 5 times by players with accounts at all skins is that for those players with accounts at just one or two, there will be a visible INCREASE in the number of free chip offers.


An alternative way to more specifically deal with the problems faced by US players would be to have an internal purse that sits above all 5 skins. This would allow US players to withdraw the $54 max cashout and store it in this holding area until they either lose it back in another skin, or manage to withdraw another balance to the purse that pushes it's total to over $100, which would then meet your processors minimum wire limit. This would reduce risk even further because you would no longer face calls to have higher limits so that withdrawals are both possible and "worth it despite the fees".

Failing this, a mechanism for players to transfer balances between the five skins would achieve much the same as they could merge two balances that are under $100 into a single balance that is over $100, which the US player could withdraw by wire.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi,

Our processors insist on having it there as a deterrent to potential fraudsters. I know it's hard to read tone of a message and each person will read it differently. It was meant to be seen as a polite reminder that fraud would not be tolerated.

I will have marketing edit it to reflect the message we're trying to convey.

Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Cheers,
Dieter

The message should not make bogus claims, especially illegal ones.

In this case, you have now put in writing that you, as a company, use an "illegal" collections agency that abuses it's powers by claiming it will forget about the law and do anything it can think of to scare a player into paying over the money. There is the chance that this message will fall into the hands of the authorities, possibly when an innocent player suffers from an unfortunate coincidence of having a few problems with your casino and then suddenly finding their credit rating has gone through the floor. They will have seen this message a few times, and may feel that the casino has moved the case over to "collections" to force a resolution of the problem in their favour. This could lead them to blame their credit rating collapse on the actions of the casino, and in trying to sort things out, they may be pressured into revealing this is what they think might have been the cause.

As for the real fraudsters, there is little danger in them passing this message on to their banks, credit agency, or the authorities. However, there is also little danger of them taking the threats seriously.

 

[bigjohn]

The message shou.........

Did Dieter kick your dog or something terrible like that?

 

[Tirilej]

Did Dieter kick your dog or something terrible like that?

:notworthy

I reported this thread and I hope it will be closed now.

 

[paul7388]

:notworthy

I reported this thread and I hope it will be closed now.

Thanks Tirilej I was hoping it would be locked as well.

Its been a while since this Baptism failed and yet the thread is still going strong.

I actually feel sorry for Dieter. He must one of the most active and helpful Reps on this Forum yet no matter how much he tries theres still members that want to try and knock him and his casinos at every chance they get.
Going back to the post a few months ago wondering why some Reps are not very active etc. I think threads like this explain exactly why they aren't.

 

[spintee]

I would like to point out, VWM I see a few of your comments, Please do not get me wrong as Im not a good writer or reader, I try my best, As mentioned a while back in the thread it was the banking side that made threats, The meister team was straight on this and done what they had to do, Please bear in mind that VWW that I agree with what you write 99%9 of the time, It would take me a week to write 1 of your posts , 7 and what I do read your on the ball my friend

There is a lot of losers out there that gamble and try reclaiming cash back, which cost us all in the long run Remember that the games suppliers do not take a loss, Its the casino side of thing thats in the hole and take all the shit, I admit that alot of of sites are terrible from trying to speak to cs, But if any rep can sort things out than Dieter is on top the game

 

[gagamel]

To close this thread will not solve the problem.

Two members on a personal crusade against RIVAL. They will hijack every thread in the future in the same way they have done in the past.

 

[rena35]

I have been reading the posts from Tropica and i agree the Rep has been working very hard trying to help members and make the casino a place where people want to play.

 

[aceking123]

To close this thread will not solve the problem.

Two members on a personal crusade against RIVAL. They will hijack every thread in the future in the same way they have done in the past.

wouldnt say its personal i've just closed my account there or should i say in the process , i do like the casino i think no doubt there the best rival by far but i personally haven't seen any luck & upon reading the terms can vouch i've broken the rules way to many times , my gripe is with the deposit caps down to the 200% mark , i understand it down to me where i play .
dieter seems to be a good rep & doesn't deserve the rap hes getting on here , but i still dont think its personal i think players are pointing out a few things , but most of you are correct its time this thread is closed , this should help a nice clean slate to build on & i do wish them luck in the future

 

[Cleveland]

O wow, I just noticed in the reps signature that Ricardo's Casino is apart of the same group. I guess I do play there (I said earlier in the thread I didn't play at any of their casinos).

Well on that note two things then:

1. Ricardo's Casino is such a silly name to me.

2. They process and pay insanely fast. At least that is how it went for my last two withdrawals. The most recent withdrawal I would have to say rivaled (lol no pun intended....but it did kind of tickle my funny bone) 3dice in terms of payment speed. I put the request in on either Tuesday or Wednesday and I noticed it was in my account yesterday.

 

[spintee]

before it does get closed I have my last word, The rep has been top whack, please also take into acount that bonuses are frees, I no from years of gambling that casino what your cash, but go by sites and any thing is wrong your in safe hands by the reps from here (tropica), I Play many of sites and cannot say the same for alot of cs