Time for the Casinos to find another way for USA players

Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Location
USA
Many restrictions are in place for the USA player to deposit and withdrawal. Time restraints (7 pm) and usage of CC to deposit. But I have never had a problem withdrawing from QT till recently. My bank no longer accepts international wire transfers. So I look at other withdrawal options at the casinos and many are no longer sending checks. What's a USA player to do?

So my favorite micro's are still accepting my deposits, but give me no other options to withdraw.

Think I'll take up needlepoint. Anyone care to start a micro needlepoint group? geesh
 
This is so funny because I have been working on needlepoint all day. :D

I am sure that casinos that plan on trying to keep US players will find a way for us to deposit and withdraw.

Kotsy1, I don't know where you play but the casinos I play at have other ways to deposit and withdraw besides Quicktender. Check the accredited ones here and see what they have to offer.
 
which bank?

Many restrictions are in place for the USA player to deposit and withdrawal. Time restraints (7 pm) and usage of CC to deposit. But I have never had a problem withdrawing from QT till recently. My bank no longer accepts international wire transfers. So I look at other withdrawal options at the casinos and many are no longer sending checks. What's a USA player to do?

So my favorite micro's are still accepting my deposits, but give me no other options to withdraw.

Think I'll take up needlepoint. Anyone care to start a micro needlepoint group? geesh

Can you tell me which bank you use? Up to now, I've had no problem with Intl Wires, but that doesn't mean it won't start.

Also, does anyone have any idea why credit cards are only working after 7 pm? Seems odd to me, if they can cut it off that long, only a matter of time until it is all day :(

Happy New Year
 
Td bank and Sovereign

Both stopped certain wire transfers last week

I play at accredited casinos, but they no longer send out checks to USA players. Seems that's the only way to get paid for me
 
Many restrictions are in place for the USA player to deposit and withdrawal. Time restraints (7 pm) and usage of CC to deposit. But I have never had a problem withdrawing from QT till recently. My bank no longer accepts international wire transfers. So I look at other withdrawal options at the casinos and many are no longer sending checks. What's a USA player to do?

So my favorite micro's are still accepting my deposits, but give me no other options to withdraw.

Think I'll take up needlepoint. Anyone care to start a micro needlepoint group? geesh

This whole thing is bordering on the unworkable. There must be MANY reasons why US citizens transfer money internationally, and gambling is only ONE of these. UIGEA does NOT permit the blocking of ALL international transactions, but ONLY those related to "illegal gambling online".

Banks that are over zealous will lose customers to the competition, which should encourage banks to "back off" over time in order to stem the loss of customers. People who have no interest in online gambling will find their other international transactions start incurring problems, and this will become a burden, as well as an embarrassment, as they will face allegations of being a "bad credit risk" because payments for good will bounce at the first attempt.

For this to work, the banks have to ensure ONLY gambling transactions get blocked, which is something they claimed was IMPOSSIBLE when explaining to the treasury why UIGEA was unworkable. Either they have found a way to do this, or they are headed for a problem with disgruntled customers.
 
Both my prior bank and my current bank have stopped international wire transfers on personal accounts. I can sign a waiver at my current bank to allow these transfers, but have to list where each one is coming from. I didn't ask, but I am assuming it is different for a business account.
 
Both my prior bank and my current bank have stopped international wire transfers on personal accounts. I can sign a waiver at my current bank to allow these transfers, but have to list where each one is coming from. I didn't ask, but I am assuming it is different for a business account.

This is the problem. When "non gamblers" start facing this level of intrusion from their banks they are not going to be happy. If it becomes widespread, they are going to start demanding action from the government, who will be forced to admit to EVERYBODY that it is something THEY have told the banks to do just to stop a SMALL MINORITY of people gambling on the internet, rather than at places like Vegas.

This is probably NEVER going to work with BUSINESS accounts because international transfers are routine in the business world, and it would be too much "red tape" to have them held up whilst a dedicated employee lists every one expected, and hands the list to the bank.


So, what is to stop ANYONE from opening a business account?
What level of proof is required that it is being used for business?

A small business is often run by one person from their garage or basement, so they cannot rely on proof of occupation of business premises.

Here in the UK, you can create a "shell" company for around £300. It's just a name, but doesn't actually DO anything. A small trader can also make up a trading name, and not even have to register as a company.

The easiest solution seems to be to create an "internet business" for yourself, and then get a business account from the bank for it's transactions.
The business could be a casino affiliate site targeted CLEARLY at non-US players in places where it it perfectly legal to gamble, and promote gambling. The way many affiliate programs pay affiliates makes the transactions impossible to differentiate from normal player withdrawals. Intercasino, for example, will pay revenue into your casino account, which when withdrawn looks like a normal player withdrawal.

There seems nothing in UIGEA that makes it illegal to promote gambling to non-US players, therefore such a venture would be legal.

It seems the banks know this is going to be a problem, so they are trying to bully customers into signing legal agreements before allowing them to make and receive international transactions. This means that if a player is caught making a transaction prohibited by UIGEA after having signed such an agreement, they are in MORE trouble than they would be had they just been caught & blocked. It could even involve CRIMINAL charges, depending on the type of agreement signed.

In short, "scare tactics" designed to promote self enforcement of something the banks realise they CANNOT police themselves in an effective and accurate manner.
 
I agree VWM, it seems to me that financial institutions are the ones running scared right now since they haven't been able to "police" international transactions. With more institutions changing their bank cards from Visa to MC when the cards expire says a lot, IMO.

The US government is stupid, instead of spending millions on trying to stop these transactions, they should be using the money to figure out a way to tap into this multibillion dollar industry. It would help pull this dysfunctional government out of the financial crisis it has put itself into. To say it is trying to save and protect the people is BS, if that was the issue, then the majority of crooked elected politicians we have would have to step down.
 
... instead of spending millions on trying to stop these transactions, they should be using the money to figure out a way to tap into this multibillion dollar industry.

I don't know for sure, but I have a feeling the Dept. of Justice is making money, not spending it. Maybe a wiser assumption is that they are spending it to make it, and the profits are not going back into the spending pool. They are, after all, going after bank accounts and credit processors and the middle men in this game we play between our pockets and those of the casinos and seizing funds all the time.

And I assure you, there is legislation on the horizon. The funny part is, I don't think anyone knows exactly what that legislation will include, save for the kickbacks and earmarks for non-corollary items and agendas that this confederacy of dunces is famous for.

And to boot, the word is there will be a period of time that the govt. intends to require the various poker and casino sites to actually stop serving their clientelle, this according to the president of the PPA (Poker Player Alliance). This 'cool-off' period would be for regulatory devices such as a national cyber identification program to be installed, a national database of 'deadbeat dads to be amassed (this is real, as there is an amendment in the HR2267 that excludes so called 'deadbeat dad's' from the privilege of online gambling), the owners and operators of proposed licensees to be vetted, and critics suspect, for the D of J to negotiate fines to be paid by the applicant casinos and credit processors who continued to serve the US market place after their June 30th 2010 'must-stop' ban. There are a number of other amendments to the bill, and most of them are logical, but there is yet time for the bureaucrats to fix that...lol!

The only catch as I see it, is the likely event that now with the lame duck session over, the republican majority might very well ignore the bill on their desks. In fact, given a larger majority, some might propose stricter legislation against the industry.

But there are some signs of hope. And some signs that things can change in Washington. And while I hate to detract so quickly from these positive signs, it doesn't help that the latest turncoat now in favor of legislation is one of the most obtuse and disliked Senators by the other side, Harry Reid. What may help is he was the former lead in the opposition to the Barney Frank proposal to legalize online poker, which has been re-drafted and re-drafted into what we now know as
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. Here read this from Forbes magazine and click it to see the entire article,

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However things turn out, there is no doubt in my mind that the masses are comatose. And that the govt., while not stupid, has no problem acting like they are as daft as a bus stop, so as not to tip off us angry detractors from their apparent lack of aptitude may very well be devious mischief, all in the name of the almighty greenback, and presumably, their own preservation.
 
Q T tranfers not working?

so am i reading this thread correctly? some banks are are now not allowing wire transfers from Q T? casinos is the only q t transfers i do. havent done one in months . if more problems occur with other players as well please post. im wondering what to do if i were to win and need a cash out. tired of always having to look for a remedy. :(
 
Also, some casinos offer good old fashion Person-2-Person payouts. You get a control number, go to a location near you (like a store), and get cash in hand. :cool:

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager
 
Sorry all, I'm out of "thanks" for the day...
@3mptyseat, very compelling post, thank you

@Nicolas Johnson, by person-2-person are you saying some casinos are doing MoneyGrams, western union payments?
 
person 2 person? this would be wonderful. I really hope the casino's come up with some solutions for USA. Years ago they use to allow person to person within the casinos. Then the recipient in non-usa could payout to paypal or whatever and transfer funds to their friend.

needlepoint anyone?
 
ksech is exactly right in regards to what I meant... sorry for not being more clear; I have clear instructions as to how to phrase 'Person 2 Person' transfers. ;)

Kind Regards,
Nicolas Johnson
Bet Phoenix Casino Affiliate Manager
 
All you need to do to open a biz account is to go to your local city hall and file a "DBA" ( doing business as).

With that you can go to the bank.

Dunno what it costs nowadays, maybe 20 or 30 bucks last time I looked.

Isn't the transaction coded from a gambling site though dominique? Regardless if you are a biz or a sole propriety isnt the code the same? Thus not allowed by the bank? Thanks in advance for any clarity on that.
 
i have a friend at the poker room actually a few that we trust each other and transfer $$ to each other when we can
weather its p to p in the poker room for $$ gifted on a casino

this could be expanded by a reliable individual in a casino legit country if players could get p to p transfers

obviously small amounts at first till trust is built and not every one would want the choure but a person that did could make a decent profit

payments could be made in gift cards or pay pal or western union etc
 
i have a friend at the poker room actually a few that we trust each other and transfer $$ to each other when we can
weather its p to p in the poker room for $$ gifted on a casino

this could be expanded by a reliable individual in a casino legit country if players could get p to p transfers

obviously small amounts at first till trust is built and not every one would want the choure but a person that did could make a decent profit

payments could be made in gift cards or pay pal or western union etc

This is NOT something the casinos could have any part in, other than turning the proverbial "blind eye" to such arrangements between players. The PLAYER facilitating such a scheme would effectively be "money laundering", and would be acting illegally whatever country they were in. The effect is to pay US players by a means that disguises the source and legitimacy of the funds, which is the definition of "money laundering". Players helping in this way would be risking some serious penalties if caught, and this could involve imprisonment. This would all be for relatively little reward.

PayPal would quickly catch on too, and would act by closing accounts that appeared to be getting used as a conduit to US customers for "untraceable" funds.

In any case, a bank wire is not "coded" in the sense that it can be identified as "gambling". What the bank sees is who sent it, which is usually another bank on behalf of a holding company. The banks have to get a feel for which of these "holding companies" sending the wires are simply fronts for casino/poker payouts. The more a particular source is used, the easier it gets for the banks to figure out it is NOT an actual company, but a front for gambling payouts. They can then block that source.

It is clear the banks CAN'T pin down wires, because when they SUSPECT a customer is receiving wires from a casino, they don't have PROOF enough to press charges, but resort to "intimidation" such as getting the customer to sign legal declarations that the wires are NOT related to gambling, else ALL wires from outside the US will be blocked on their account.
 
well i guess we , my friends will keep a very small private circle as we've been doing
and divulge no evidence of it

;) PS ;) IF things get rough enough ill confess in order to get free medical insurance from inside of jail
 

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