Question Strange Experience with Accredited Casino

[dingdingding]

Hello everyone,

Today I made a rather awkward experience when I tried to login with one of the accredited casinos here. I hadn't been around there for some time and found I couldn't log in.

After chatting with a cs rep I was told, that my account was closed, since a deposit was bounced back in 7/7/2012. The deposit in question, they told me, has been made with sofortueberweisung, which is an instant funding option in Germany and Austria. Sofortueberweisung works in a way that I can describe as you are logging into your normal online banking from the site of sofortueberweisung, which you "piggy-back" into your account. The deposit is then made after funds are approved.

I honestly can't remember any deposit of mine bouncing back at the given time and I am 100% sure that I was never contacted by either a casino rep or a rep from the banking service due to this. Since I found that kind of odd, I looked into my online banking bills and couldn't find anything supporting said incident there either.

What I have done now is contact sofortueberweisung and ask whether they know anything about that. I mean, if there's a deposit of mine bounced back they sure deserve to be paid... but I find it extremely weird that I was never contacted about this and found out only by chance when trying to log in their software more than a half year later.

What do you think about this?

Best regards
dingdingding

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello everyone,

Today I made a rather awkward experience when I tried to login with one of the accredited casinos here. I hadn't been around there for some time and found I couldn't log in.

After chatting with a cs rep I was told, that my account was closed, since a deposit was bounced back in 7/7/2012. The deposit in question, they told me, has been made with sofortueberweisung, which is an instant funding option in Germany and Austria. Sofortueberweisung works in a way that I can describe as you are logging into your normal online banking from the site of sofortueberweisung, which you "piggy-back" into your account. The deposit is then made after funds are approved.

I honestly can't remember any deposit of mine bouncing back at the given time and I am 100% sure that I was never contacted by either a casino rep or a rep from the banking service due to this. Since I found that kind of odd, I looked into my online banking bills and couldn't find anything supporting said incident there either.

What I have done now is contact sofortueberweisung and ask whether they know anything about that. I mean, if there's a deposit of mine bounced back they sure deserve to be paid... but I find it extremely weird that I was never contacted about this and found out only by chance when trying to log in their software more than a half year later.

What do you think about this?

Best regards
dingdingding

Very odd. I would expect the casino to contact you demanding an explanation and to pay the money owed. At worst, they should have contacted you telling you that your account has been closed. Waiting all this time makes it harder to figure out what went wrong.

The above system seems to be of a type where internet communication issues causes a transaction to only partially complete. Often, if the problem is not addressed by either party, the system will try to resolve the issue. With banking, where a transaction is authorised but fails to complete properly, the money does end up getting put back in the bank/card account, usually after 30 or more days.

interestingly, I once found that a transaction had somehow failed in Click2Pay, but instead of reflecting on my card, it ended up in Click2Pay. The system was similar, card registered to Click2Pay, and casino deposit made via Click2Pay, which took it from my registered card if Click2Pay was empty.

You will need the transaction records from all three parties to get to the bottom of this.

1) The casino transaction logs fron your account.
2) sofortueberweisung statements.
3) Bank statements

Ideally, you should look well beyond the time of the incident as the money may return some time later. If it went back to sofortueberweisung, you may have missed it as it could have been hidden among the other casino deposits, simply being an extra sum of money available. If it went back to the bank, it should be easier to spot as a statement entry reversing the initial transaction.

You should engage with the casino rep in order that things are put right. If you can't agree on what happened, for example you can't find any sign of the money coming back to you, and the casino can't find it their end, you should PAB as this could be a "cold case" example of an internet interruption that placed the money in limbo and left it there to this day. This would need the casino and it's processor to work together in tracing their own internal logs to trace which limbo the money ended up in, and send it on to the casino.

This can happen because casinos like to credit funds instantly, trusting that at this stage the transaction will complete because all the authorisations are in order. A more common complaint has been the money being taken from a bank or card, but not showing in the casino account, but ending up in an internal account as an incompleted transaction. The casino then has to manually post the credit to the casino account for the player, which can be a lengthy process and which irritates the player. Yours seems to be a rarer case where the money does post to the casino account, but the transaction itself does not complete, and the casino does not get the money it expects.

If I see this kind of oddity, a payment arriving at my bank, and then bouncing back to the sender, I don't wait almost a year to query it. I am right on to the sender and the bank whilst things are still fresh.

 

[Journeyman]

Sofortuberweisung

I am sorry to hear about your problem. Casinos are very careful nowadays with Sofortuberweisung. Especially because the option exists for the customer to cancel the transaction directly after depositing, resulting in having the deposited amount still in you bank account ánd in your casino wallet.

The casino will not notice this, since they have the confirmation from Sofortuberweisung, the money is actually in your bank account and the order to transfer it to the merchant is given.

Now the casinos know, most failed transactions with Sofort are because of the customer cancels the transaction with his full conscious. Although the money paid with Sofort is deducted directly from your bank account. Since it is another bank as your own bank, in most cases, where you transfer the money to, the transaction is reversable for at least 24 hours after the deposit is made, and at firstm nobody will notice.

Don´t get me wrong. I am definately not saying this is what happened in your case. I just know from several casino holders, the casino assumes directly the customer cancelled the transaction himself, so they feel they have the right to close your account without communicating it to you first. They will feel like you were trying to take advantage of them.

Send them a screenshot of your online banking where you can show the transaction actually is processed.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I am sorry to hear about your problem. Casinos are very careful nowadays with Sofortuberweisung. Especially because the option exists for the customer to cancel the transaction directly after depositing, resulting in having the deposited amount still in you bank account ánd in your casino wallet.

The casino will not notice this, since they have the confirmation from Sofortuberweisung, the money is actually in your bank account and the order to transfer it to the merchant is given.

Now the casinos know, most failed transactions with Sofort are because of the customer cancels the transaction with his full conscious. Although the money paid with Sofort is deducted directly from your bank account. Since it is another bank as your own bank, in most cases, where you transfer the money to, the transaction is reversable for at least 24 hours after the deposit is made, and at firstm nobody will notice.

Don´t get me wrong. I am definately not saying this is what happened in your case. I just know from several casino holders, the casino assumes directly the customer cancelled the transaction himself, so they feel they have the right to close your account without communicating it to you first. They will feel like you were trying to take advantage of them.

Send them a screenshot of your online banking where you can show the transaction actually is processed.

If I were an operator, I don't think I would even have Sofortuberweisung as an option, far too dangerous an opening for scammers. They can play, and if they have 24 hours, can know the result of this play in time to either cancel the transaction if they lose, or do nothing if they win.

Surely the Sofortuberweisung statement would show whether or not the transaction was cancelled by the player within the allowed 24 hours, or vanished in a limbo between Sofortuberweisung and the casino.

Even though they would close the casino account straight away, surely they would at least make a couple of attempts to get the money or an explanation from the player even if they decide the account remains closed. The problem is that they cannot know whether a player is going to scam them until 24 hours after they do, so it's almost a no lose situation for the scammers (they DON'T cancel if they win and withdraw, and so they get paid).

Given that this is essentially a chargeback, the player (or scammer) would be added to a blacklist, so in this case, the OP's troubles are not going to be confined to this one casino, but they may now find themselves on an industry blacklist that could result in any casino voiding wins due to "a history of chargebacks".

The OP should not play anywhere until this matter is cleared up.

 

[dingdingding]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. I didn't even know you could cancel a deposit made by sofortueberweisung to be honest. I mean, except for like calling your bank and say you did deposit the wrong amount or something like that?

Its not like money could be lost in the limbo however, according to my bank statements no transfer was made... or reversed... or whatever. There is just nothing for that period of time. I double checked the following month too, nothing pointing towards said transaction.

However, I have contacted Sofortueberweisung per mail like I said and have to admit, they are answering to your mails quickly during their business hours. Their first answer was a generic "please sort that out with the place you made a purchase with kthxbye"-type of text. After answering to that and explaining again, that I contacted them because I cannot sort that out because the casino couldn't tell me anything except the date and time of the transfer in question. Now after a little back and forth they now sent me a mail that says I should contact them once my dispute with the store was solved and their bank details along with some cryptic, unexplained numbers as well as an explaination of how to make a screenshot.

BUT on the other hand there is a timestamp within the cryptic numbers that matches the time the casino told me and that I told sofortueberweisung but has milliseconds added. This kind of makes it look legit and I'm leaning towards sending the casino the amount in question... i talked to one of their cs reps in chat today and asked about wagering on said date, too. They said 58.50 was wagered on the dark knight slot and I kind of remember playing this once and hating it lol

 

[Journeyman]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. I didn't even know you could cancel a deposit made by sofortueberweisung to be honest. I mean, except for like calling your bank and say you did deposit the wrong amount or something like that?

If one has online banking it is very easy to do.

I have a very bad experience because of Sofortuberweisung. I went to my country, leaving my roommate in my house to split the costs and to let him pay the rent from my bank while I was not there.

Will not reveal the whole story, but when I came back I owed a small 8 grand to a very well known and one of my favourite E-Wallets which I am using for years now.

A good thing is: Sofortuberweisung is very helpful, like you said and easy to get in contact with, but the reversable deposits are quite dangerous. Now this was my own fold, never leave your bankdetails to anybody, but like weatherman said: It should be easy for people to deposit to a casino and just let the deposit really come through if they win., although this wasn´t what happened in my case.
GL!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks a lot for your input guys. I didn't even know you could cancel a deposit made by sofortueberweisung to be honest. I mean, except for like calling your bank and say you did deposit the wrong amount or something like that?

Its not like money could be lost in the limbo however, according to my bank statements no transfer was made... or reversed... or whatever. There is just nothing for that period of time. I double checked the following month too, nothing pointing towards said transaction.

However, I have contacted Sofortueberweisung per mail like I said and have to admit, they are answering to your mails quickly during their business hours. Their first answer was a generic "please sort that out with the place you made a purchase with kthxbye"-type of text. After answering to that and explaining again, that I contacted them because I cannot sort that out because the casino couldn't tell me anything except the date and time of the transfer in question. Now after a little back and forth they now sent me a mail that says I should contact them once my dispute with the store was solved and their bank details along with some cryptic, unexplained numbers as well as an explaination of how to make a screenshot.

BUT on the other hand there is a timestamp within the cryptic numbers that matches the time the casino told me and that I told sofortueberweisung but has milliseconds added. This kind of makes it look legit and I'm leaning towards sending the casino the amount in question... i talked to one of their cs reps in chat today and asked about wagering on said date, too. They said 58.50 was wagered on the dark knight slot and I kind of remember playing this once and hating it lol

This seems to indicate the fault lies with Sofortueberweisung. Although they are answering, they are being evasive about the transaction in question. It looks like it wasn't requested from your bank, so Sofortueberweisung took it upon themselves not to honour the casino deposit as it would mean they were out of pocket. They SHOULD have tried to work with you to address the problem (if any) in getting the money from your bank, but I expect they thought that doing so would leave them out of pocket should you refuse to cooperate.

They seem to be a dangerous wallet, both for players and operators. Best avoided, as it seems that no matter who's fault it is, the player pays the price.