Someone hacked into my poker account with a Trojan

mukke

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 3, 2001
Location
Denmark
My take on this:

1) If the guy has had his account locked, why does he get up in the middle of the night and try to login? And what's that about seing the message about not being able to login and then trying? did he turn on the monitor and the message was already on the screen or what? This doesn't really add up.

2) Money lost before the account was locked is the sole responsibility of the user. Sucks, but that's how it has to be. Money lost AFTER the account was locked is the responsibility of the card room. This was obviously a fault on their end - human or technical - and they need to rectify this.

3) Phone vs email: If I were in their place, I'd prefer email too. This way it's easier to keep account of the case and spot opposing claims.

Casino-on-net used to be fair, I doubt we really have the complete picture here...
 
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The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
mukke said:
My take on this:

1) If the guy has had his account locked, why does he get up in the middle of the night and try to login? And what's that about seing the message about not being able to login and then trying? did he turn on the monitor and the message was already on the screen or what? This doesn't really add up.
I didn't have my account locked until after I woke up and saw what I saw. I saw a message that said "You have been disconnected from Pacific Poker."

And I'd prefer phone because everytime I received an e-mail from Pacific, it was pretty much the same message. On the phone, I could actually argue with what they say. E-mail, they don't listen.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
murder1 said:
For a kid that is 19 years old. You sure know alot about Networking and viruses. Makes me wonder why a kid with so much knowledge. Didn't have sense enough to shut down his web-browser and running programs in the background, to prevent all of this.

Sorry Dude, come better next time.
I "have so much knowledge" because I've been hitting google and my friends like crazy since this happened.

One of my friends suggested that I specifically ask about key-loggers, because that's what many Trojans are. Specifically, the Trojan that infected my PC. Even Nortons told me that.

And I don't shut down my web-browser because I have a cable modem. You don't need to shut it down.

Edit: I appreciate the help that some of you are giving me. But I definately don't appreciate being called a liar every other post. I'm not lying. Do you really think I'd come here if I was lying?
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
The Grapist said:
Do you really think I'd come here if I was lying?
I'm sure Bryan could give you endless examples of scammers who sent pitch a bitch that were BS. You'll be VERY lucky to get a penny back. I've been playing pro online for years and have never heard such story that did not involve a chip dump. I do not play Pacific because they seem to have alot of problems other poker rooms do not have but if this was a fraud from a trojan you'd be damn sure they would want to get to the bottom of this, dont you think they would want the scammers out?
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
Money lost before the account was locked is the sole responsibility of the user. Sucks, but that's how it has to be. Money lost AFTER the account was locked is the responsibility of the card room. This was obviously a fault on their end - human or technical - and they need to rectify this.
I agree with this, regardless of other circumstances.

After the account was locked, it should have been locked. Period.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
dominique said:
I agree with this, regardless of other circumstances.

After the account was locked, it should have been locked. Period.
Naturally, I'd like to get all of my money, but I agree with that fact that there's no excuse for me not getting the $1000 that was lost after the account was closed.

Of course, this is their excuse for not giving me back that money (I think I quoted this earlier, but it bares repeating):

Please understand that I have to consider all the facts, and in the event that your system has been infected by a Trojan Horse and someone has had access to your passwords, this is not something that we should be accountable for. Jeff, the ultimate responsibility for the security of your computer system is in your hands and not ours.

We do apologize for the fact that although your account was blocked, access was still available for a short while. However, as all our evidence points out that your account was accessed from your PC using your username and password, we cannot support your claim that a third party was involved and that this incident occurred due to our negligence.
I'd think that the incident did occur to their negligence! The account should have been closed. In another e-mail, they wrote this:

Due to a technical error, the account was still able to be logged into
after this time
That sounds like negligence to me!
 

tunisianswife

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Cincinnati, OH USA
who is responsible for technical error

Yes, I agree, Grapist, "technical error" is something on their end. It is so unfortunate that there are such dishonest people out there that raises scepticism in the minds of many. It usually ends up labelling all of us as theives even if we are victims. I have been watching these posts to this thread and do hope that all works out for you; but most of all, that you are able to track down whoever did this.

They are basically saying that you are responsible for your own software. Touche!! "technical error" is error on their part and they should be held accountable for their software problems also.

I have read many of the rogue players letters to casinomeister and I must say that although I may be a bit naive or want to believe that for the most part people are truly good and honest, I do believe that you truly had this unfortunate incident...why else would you be coming back in here to check on updates of possible bits of advice from the masses?

Just a little peon here, but always the cheerleader! ;)

*btw....still don't understand what dumping means. Have tried searching on here for answers but am a clueless little peon.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
tunisianswife said:
Just a little peon here, but always the cheerleader! ;)

*btw....still don't understand what dumping means. Have tried searching on here for answers but am a clueless little peon.
Thanks.

From what I've seen, chip "dumping" means that you intentionally lose the chips in one account to one or more accounts. Say you have Account #1 and Account #2. Account #1 has a large balance, and has been taken over by a hacker. Account #2 is owned by either the hacker, or his accomplice. Account #1 will go into a hand, and constantly raise. The goal is that Account #1 either loses the hand or folds, and Account #2 takes the money.

Pacific has been giving me nothing but a hard time. They claim that there is no chance that chip dumping occurred, but I do know for a fact (I briefly had access to my hand history during the small time between finding out about what happened and suspending my account, along with the person at Customer Support telling me what happened) that crappy hands were played and raised, which is a tell-tale sign of dumping.

What I do know for a fact, and what Pacific has said, is that the account was played for many hours, and for most of them, the account maintained a good balance. Sounds like nothing out of the ordinary. But at a certain point, the balance sharply went down, and the crappy hands were played.

If I were looking at the case, I'd honestly say that it seems weird, but probably not enough to say "YEP! Chip Dumping!" However, the thing that for me, confirms that something was up (and what Pacific says is nothing wrong) was that hours after I called, the account was played, and within 30 minutes, $1000 more was gone.

And murder1, I don't know what you're trying to say. (I'm going to ignore the grammatical errors). How does my age indicate anything about what should be my knowledge of computers?
 
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The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
tunisianswife said:
have you asked them to send you a detail of the game log hand per hand so you can examine this closely?
Yes.

Everytime I called up, I asked to get the hand history. They told me that the only way that I could get the hand history would be for me to log into my account. And for me to log into my account, they would need to re-open it. And they said that for them to do that, I would need to "admit to guilt" as they put it.

It's quite frustrating.
 

Freudian

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 3, 2004
Location
europe
I do think the operator needs to take responsibility for not locking the account (or the locking not working properly) after informing the customer. But from their perspective it is you playing on your computer from your connection after it was supposed to be locked. So I am not sure if player should be allowed totally risk free play if they find out about a flaw in the program (on purpose or by accident). Which I guess is their stance on it.

Also, the player should be given his logs without any hassle. Not giving the player his logs is inexcusable. No matter what the cardroom suspects him of doing.

As for the question if you would come here if you were lying. Definately. Rougue players often look for leverage after trying to scam a casino. And having a mediator involved definately is that kind of leverage. I suggest you click on the "evil ones" link on this page.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
Freudian said:
I do think the operator needs to take responsibility for not locking the account (or the locking not working properly) after informing the customer. But from their perspective it is you playing on your computer from your connection after it was supposed to be locked. So I am not sure if player should be allowed totally risk free play if they find out about a flaw in the program (on purpose or by accident). Which I guess is their stance on it.

Also, the player should be given his logs without any hassle. Not giving the player his logs is inexcusable. No matter what the cardroom suspects him of doing.

As for the question if you would come here if you were lying. Definately. Rougue players often look for leverage after trying to scam a casino. And having a mediator involved definately is that kind of leverage. I suggest you click on the "evil ones" link on this page.
Yeah, I've seen the evil ones link. I should've said "after reading that page, do you think I'd come here?"

Personally, at this point, I don't see why I shouldn't get at least the money that was taken after my account was supposed to be suspended. Losing $2k to theft is a lot, but I don't see why I should take losing my entire bankroll to theft lying down.
 

jpm

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 29, 2002
The poker room is definitely to blame for the so-called technical error that caused the locked account to be not so locked, and therefore the loss of whatever funds after they told you it was locked. They contradict themselves when they say 'your account was blocked but access was still available for a short time'. Well its either blocked or it isn't, not like it can be partially blocked.

With regards to the IP spoofing question, it makes me wonder why you would even bring that up since you say the software was open on your screen when you woke up. If the culprit was IP spoofing, then it wouldn't have been on your screen.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
jpm said:
With regards to the IP spoofing question, it makes me wonder why you would even bring that up since you say the software was open on your screen when you woke up. If the culprit was IP spoofing, then it wouldn't have been on your screen.
I brought it up because my friend sent me a PM on another forum

These people keep talking about how it couldn't have played poker without being on your computer, but they're ignoring what I think is an obvious answer:

1) Download files which let them log in through the saved password on your computer, or if you type it in manually, keystroke logger

combined with

2) IP spoofer. I'm sure they're out there and I'm sure they can work.

Suggest that in that thread and see if that makes any sense to them.
He knows more than me about computers, so I listened to what he said.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
:(

Its been over six weeks, and nothing from anyone. The affiliate told me that he found one person who agrees that I should at least get the last $1,000 that was taken, but so far, nothing has been done.

I havent received an email from Bryan either. This really sucks, theres still money in the account, and I cant access my account until the situation is resolved, as Pacific put it.

And to top it off, Im officially broke, so the money in the account is really needed. I dont know why I havent received any correspondence from Bryan.

I really dont know what to do right now.
 

mary

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 12, 2000
Let me get this right, you had a wireless connection to your pc?

Which means that, depending on signal strength and all, any of your neighbors could have used your network connection.

Do you live in a college housing part of town by any chance?

Welcome to the wonderful world of computing, in which you have to run a firewall, an encrypted wireless connection, anti-virus software, and anti-adware.

They definitely owe you the money lost after they were supposed to have "closed" your account. Had they done so, neither you nor the hacker exploiting your security flaws would have been able to use the poker game to move money out of your account to a confederate.

What happened with the affiliate that had referred you? That person would have recieved a percentage of the rake and as a business partner of the casino would have the most leverage.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
The Grapist said:
:(

Its been over six weeks, and nothing from anyone. The affiliate told me that he found one person who agrees that I should at least get the last $1,000 that was taken, but so far, nothing has been done.

I havent received an email from Bryan either. This really sucks, theres still money in the account, and I cant access my account until the situation is resolved, as Pacific put it.

And to top it off, Im officially broke, so the money in the account is really needed. I dont know why I havent received any correspondence from Bryan.

I really dont know what to do right now.
Sorry for the delays. The summer was pretty insane here, and I took time off in August. I'll get to this right away.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I awaiting word back from the poker room.

Just to clarify something, the casino has stated that this player played from his computer:

However, as all our evidence points out that your account was accessed from your PC using your username and password, we cannot support your claim that a third party was involved and that this incident occurred due to our
negligence.
I won't be happy if I am wasting my time here.
 

The Grapist

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Location
Long Island, NY
casinomeister said:
I awaiting word back from the poker room.

Just to clarify something, the casino has stated that this player played from his computer:



I won't be happy if I am wasting my time here.
You aren't wasting your time, a few people helped me establish the fact that there was a trojan on my PC, and that it is likely that it had something to do with my problems.

I've said before, it doesn't look "good for me" but I'm being honest. The last thing I want to do is to waste your time, and everyone else's time on the forums.

Plus, I know for a fact that at least once during the duration that I had an account with Pacific, that I logged in with my mom's laptop, so the fact that they said that it was only one IP address shouldn't be true.

Edit: When I told Pacific about the fact that I had a trojan, they told me that it was my responsibilty for my computer's security. I can accept that, but I won't accept that after I called, after I told them that something was wrong, and after they assured me that my account would be closed, more money was taken. Losing $2k because you didn't keep your computer secure is a hard pill to swallow. But losing another $1k after you told the poker room to close your account is something I don't think I should stand.
 
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