Slot Paytables & Reels, reverse engineering

[BabylonBear]

<div class="bbWrapper">I am aware that some people have managed to get hold of some of the paytables or reel data for some popular slots like Starburst.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m really really sorry if this has been asked before, but I have spent the last hour searching and haven&#039;t found it:<br /> <br /> Where can one get ahold of information like this? Presumable it was obtained by someone reconstructing the reels by hand? Or reverse engineering the code somehow?</div>

 

[dunover]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994310" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994310" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994310">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I am aware that some people have managed to get hold of some of the paytables or reel data for some popular slots like Starburst.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m really really sorry if this has been asked before, but I have spent the last hour searching and haven&#039;t found it:<br /> <br /> Where can one get ahold of information like this? Presumable it was obtained by someone reconstructing the reels by hand? Or reverse engineering the code somehow? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Why would you want it?</div>

 

[Jono777]

<div class="bbWrapper">Reverse engineering the code would give them a 96% house edge, surely <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/confused.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":confused:" title="Confused :confused:" data-shortname=":confused:" /> <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/tongue.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":p" title="Stick Out Tongue :p" data-shortname=":p" /></div>

 

[goatwack]

<div class="bbWrapper">Tried reverse- engineering Bonanza, not worth the hassle. All I&#039;m getting is screens full of Ds with G O L missing, oh the bloody irony</div>

 

[dionysus]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 28528" data-quote="goatwack" data-source="post: 994358" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994358" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994358">goatwack said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Tried reverse- engineering Bonanza, not worth the hassle. All I&#039;m getting is screens full of Ds with G O L missing, oh the bloody irony </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>I wonder if at pornhub casino they put their clothes back on <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /></div>

 

[Reelsoffun]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994310" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994310" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994310">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I am aware that some people have managed to get hold of some of the paytables or reel data for some popular slots like Starburst.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m really really sorry if this has been asked before, but I have spent the last hour searching and haven&#039;t found it:<br /> <br /> Where can one get ahold of information like this? Presumable it was obtained by someone reconstructing the reels by hand? Or reverse engineering the code somehow? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <br /> You need more than just the reel strips to reverse a game. Esp one with random side features etc. I did my own version of Donuts because i love that game but had to guess some of the math for it to work for me as i linked it to my progressives lol</div>

 

[Jono777]

<div class="bbWrapper">Dunno if it was reverse whatever but I managed to hack into the source code for Thunderstruck II a few years back, I&#039;ll have to tell you more about it with screenshots one day <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /></div>

 

[goatwack]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 36102" data-quote="Jono777" data-source="post: 994380" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994380" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994380">Jono777 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Dunno if it was reverse whatever but I managed to hack into the source code for Thunderstruck II a few years back, I&#039;ll have to tell you more about it with screenshots one day <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>That&#039;s how it always starts doesn&#039;t it.<br /> <br /> Hacking TSII one day, The Pentagon the next</div>

 

[Nate]

<div class="bbWrapper">When I first started playing, i recall wondering if I changed the code in the MG download client if I would be able to manipulate the outcome.<br /> <br /> I remember finding the highest paying symbols picture and then replacing the lowest paying symbols with the same gif / jpg in the MG directory.<br /> <br /> It actually worked. <br /> <br /> Needless to say, a screen full of the top symbols paid 0 <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/lolup.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lolup:" title="LOL up :lolup:" data-shortname=":lolup:" /><br /> <br /> Nate</div>

 

[lotusch]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 9501" data-quote="Nate" data-source="post: 994387" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994387" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994387">Nate said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> When I first started playing, i recall wondering if I changed the code in the MG download client if I would be able to manipulate the outcome.<br /> <br /> I remember finding the highest paying symbols picture and then replacing the lowest paying symbols with the same gif / jpg in the MG directory.<br /> <br /> It actually worked.<br /> <br /> Needless to say, a screen full of the top symbols paid 0 <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/lolup.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lolup:" title="LOL up :lolup:" data-shortname=":lolup:" /><br /> <br /> Nate </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <br /> It probably DID change the reels layout, replacing any symbols you wanted but as we all know that is just eye candy.<br /> Didn&#039;t affect the outcome the server sent. <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /><br /> <br /> It was easier to manipulate slots in The Netherlands in the 90&#039;s b&amp;m and I only managed once to fool a Dutch online casino where I was able to &quot;buy&quot; credits with my mobile phone..With a certain operator I did get the credits but never got charged for any text message I did sent to purchase credits. Golden Days!!<img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /><img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /><br /> After 3 months we sold it to a gambling syndicate for some sexy money and another 2 weeks after the trick did not work anymore, I guess this syndicate exploited it way too much.</div>

 

[dunover]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 36102" data-quote="Jono777" data-source="post: 994380" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994380" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994380">Jono777 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Dunno if it was reverse whatever but I managed to hack into the source code for Thunderstruck II a few years back, I&#039;ll have to tell you more about it with screenshots one day <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/rolleyes.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /> <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/grin.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" data-shortname=":D" /> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <br /> Oh no, here it comes...….</div>

 

[goatwack]

<div class="bbWrapper"><a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/attachments/jon-jpg.105653/" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/data/attachments/70/70865-95e2ec536f71f0140a2ea27cc568c955.jpg" class="bbImage " style="" alt="jon.jpg" title="jon.jpg" width="100" height="73" loading="lazy" /></a></div>

 

[dunover]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 28528" data-quote="goatwack" data-source="post: 994404" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994404" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994404">goatwack said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/attachments/105653/" target="_blank">View attachment 105653</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/attachments/that-fucking-shitstorm-again-jpg.105654/" target="_blank"><img src="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/data/attachments/70/70866-a1a339408d4265930038c90119268fb3.jpg" class="bbImage " style="" alt="that-fucking-shitstorm-again.jpg" title="that-fucking-shitstorm-again.jpg" width="100" height="72" loading="lazy" /></a></div>

 

[BabylonBear]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 27660" data-quote="dunover" data-source="post: 994352" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994352" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994352">dunover said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Why would you want it? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>To accurately simulate spins, in order to determine accurate EV for bonus offers, in order to maximize profit.<br /> <br /> Currently I have data from 30,000 spins from a couple of popular slots, collected via software I wrote. (code to play game + code to log winnings)<br /> <br /> But it&#039;s not enough. I think I need around 1 million spins until the samples converge.. While I could get that in a few days/days of leaving my program running, it may be simpler and more accurate to use the reel data and be able to actually simulate my own spins. <br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="member: 47373" data-quote="Reelsoffun" data-source="post: 994378" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994378" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994378">Reelsoffun said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> You need more than just the reel strips to reverse a game. Esp one with random side features etc. I did my own version of Donuts because i love that game but had to guess some of the math for it to work for me as i linked it to my progressives lol </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>This is true. Some games don&#039;t have a bonus round though (e.g. Starburst). Also, some have a simple bonus setup (e.g. 10 free spins with x5 winnings).</div>

 

[dunover]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994413" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994413" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994413">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> <b>To accurately simulate spins, in order to determine accurate EV for bonus offers, in order to maximize profit.</b><br /> <br /> Currently I have data from 30,000 spins from a couple of popular slots, collected via software I wrote. (code to play game + code to log winnings)<br /> <br /> But it&#039;s not enough. I think I need around 1 million spins until the samples converge.. While I could get that in a few days/days of leaving my program running, it may be simpler and more accurate to use the reel data and be able to actually simulate my own spins.<br /> <br /> <br /> This is true. Some games don&#039;t have a bonus round though (e.g. Starburst). Also, some have a simple bonus setup (e.g. 10 free spins with x5 winnings). </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> thePOGG already does that for his bonus offers, at least some of them. You don&#039;t actually need the reel maps, although it would make it easier.</div>

 

[Playford7]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 27660" data-quote="dunover" data-source="post: 994402" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994402" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994402">dunover said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Oh no, here it comes...…. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>It was only a matter of time..</div>

 

[BabylonBear]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 27660" data-quote="dunover" data-source="post: 994419" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994419" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994419">dunover said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> thePOGG already does that for his bonus offers, at least some of them. You don&#039;t actually need the reel maps, although it would make it easier. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Those are decent, but I achieve much better returns using my algorithms. e.g. for the bet365 offer I can get +60 EV with 68% bust rate, ThePogg gives +55 with 89% bust rate.<br /> <br /> Where did ThePogg get their payout data? Is it accurate?</div>

 

[brianmon]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994310" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994310" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994310">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> I am aware that some people have managed to get hold of some of the paytables or reel data for some popular slots like Starburst.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m really really sorry if this has been asked before, but I have spent the last hour searching and haven&#039;t found it:<br /> <br /> Where can one get ahold of information like this? Presumable it was obtained by someone reconstructing the reels by hand? Or reverse engineering the code somehow? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>You&#039;d have to assume there aren&#039;t any virtual reels involved. Quite often, the reel strips you see on screen, aren&#039;t necessarily exactly what&#039;s going on inside the servers.<br /> Games like PnG&#039;s 3x5 slots, will probably all use virtual reel strips, as it&#039;s the easiest way to change the RTP - One set of reel strips at the client end, and a different set of reel strips for each of the RTP setting on the server<br /> <br /> Maybe <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/31691/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="31691" data-username="@trancemonkey">@trancemonkey</a> can confirm/explain more?</div>

 

[BabylonBear]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 32391" data-quote="brianmon" data-source="post: 994459" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994459" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994459">brianmon said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> You&#039;d have to assume there aren&#039;t any virtual reels involved. Quite often, the reel strips you see on screen, aren&#039;t necessarily exactly what&#039;s going on inside the servers.<br /> Games like PnG&#039;s 3x5 slots, will probably all use virtual reel strips, as it&#039;s the easiest way to change the RTP - One set of reel strips at the client end, and a different set of reel strips for each of the RTP setting on the server<br /> <br /> Maybe <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/31691/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="31691" data-username="@trancemonkey">@trancemonkey</a> can confirm/explain more? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Maybe it&#039;s virtual. Maybe the reels are generated on the fly.<br /> <br /> But by far the easiest way to implement it would be to just have a reel.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m going based on something I saw somewhere, someone said he managed to get the reel data for a few popular slots.. I am just asking around if anyone knows where this data is, if it exists..</div>

 

[brianmon]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994462" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994462" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994462">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Maybe it&#039;s virtual. Maybe the reels are generated on the fly.<br /> <br /> But by far the easiest way to implement it would be to just have a reel.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m going based on something I saw somewhere, someone said he managed to get the reel data for a few popular slots.. I am just asking around if anyone knows where this data is, if it exists.. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Yeah, if you can get hold of the actual data. I just meant you probably wouldn&#039;t get very accurate data from stripping down the reels from the front end.<br /> Considering how protective slot producers are of their intellectual property. they&#039;d hardly put it all on the client side of things, where it could be so easily copied by their competition.<br /> <br /> And yeah, the reels normally have a fixed layout. But mapped to much larger virtual reels in the coding</div>

 

[trancemonkey]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 32391" data-quote="brianmon" data-source="post: 994459" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994459" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994459">brianmon said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> You&#039;d have to assume there aren&#039;t any virtual reels involved. Quite often, the reel strips you see on screen, aren&#039;t necessarily exactly what&#039;s going on inside the servers.<br /> Games like PnG&#039;s 3x5 slots, will probably all use virtual reel strips, as it&#039;s the easiest way to change the RTP - One set of reel strips at the client end, and a different set of reel strips for each of the RTP setting on the server<br /> <br /> Maybe <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/31691/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="31691" data-username="@trancemonkey">@trancemonkey</a> can confirm/explain more? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Once upon a time the data was sent to the client by multiple games providers so if you sniffed the packets you could get the reel bands. Problem is that this only worked on games with one set of reels for the base game and one for he feature.<br /> <br /> Nowadays I would be amazed if companies did that.</div>

 

[slotter999]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994462" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994462" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994462">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Maybe it&#039;s virtual. Maybe the reels are generated on the fly.<br /> <br /> But by far the easiest way to implement it would be to just have a reel.<br /> <br /> I&#039;m going based on something I saw somewhere, someone said he managed to get the reel data for a few popular slots.. I am just asking around if anyone knows where this data is, if it exists.. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> There are a number of providers that have client side definitions of the reelsets - BTG, WMS and nextgen are ones I know of from the top of head. <br /> <br /> When someone claims to have reel sets I think this is what meant.<br /> <br /> Obviously client side is not necessarily a true reflection of the actual game server side but when you take a look.....I think you would conclude that if they weren&#039;t really real reel strips.....it would be a huge effort someone had undertaken just to try to obfuscate something when there are much more easier methods. And if course - the reelsets are just one of the variables you need to consider for a slot. Only the provider will know for certain how the RNG is used to determine results from those reelsets.<br /> <br /> If we consider a slot machine to be a black box then the only way we can infer what it&#039;s doing is through observability. That means you need to put spins through it......and by that I mean a ridiculous amount (1mio won&#039;t cut it).<br /> <br /> A poster called <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/46176/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="46176" data-username="@torors">@torors</a> released a JavaScript/node.js tool which would do exactly that for BTG slots. Look through his posts for details / inspiration.<br /> <br /> Good luck.</div>

 

[Jono777]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 41710" data-quote="Playford7" data-source="post: 994422" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994422" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994422">Playford7 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> It was only a matter of time.. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> It was never gonna happen <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/smile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /><br /> <br /> have to admit running out of semi sarcastic wind ups regarding it tho <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/redface.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":oops:" title="Oops! :oops:" data-shortname=":oops:" /></div>

 

[BabylonBear]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 34232" data-quote="slotter999" data-source="post: 994495" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994495" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994495">slotter999 said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> There are a number of providers that have client side definitions of the reelsets - BTG, WMS and nextgen are ones I know of from the top of head.<br /> <br /> When someone claims to have reel sets I think this is what meant.<br /> <br /> Obviously client side is not necessarily a true reflection of the actual game server side but when you take a look.....I think you would conclude that if they weren&#039;t really real reel strips.....it would be a huge effort someone had undertaken just to try to obfuscate something when there are much more easier methods. And if course - the reelsets are just one of the variables you need to consider for a slot. Only the provider will know for certain how the RNG is used to determine results from those reelsets.<br /> <br /> If we consider a slot machine to be a black box then the only way we can infer what it&#039;s doing is through observability. That means you need to put spins through it......and by that I mean a ridiculous amount (1mio won&#039;t cut it).<br /> <br /> A poster called <a href="https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/46176/" class="username" data-xf-init="member-tooltip" data-user-id="46176" data-username="@torors">@torors</a> released a JavaScript/node.js tool which would do exactly that for BTG slots. Look through his posts for details / inspiration.<br /> <br /> Good luck. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Thanks, I appreciate that. I&#039;m totally with you, even if someone has the reel sets it doesn&#039;t mean you have reverse engineered the game.. There could be so many things going on, e.g. the reels might be different in bonus games, they might have different weights for the probabilities of landing on a certain spot, etc.. I just heard someone say they managed to get ahold of this and wanted to know if anyone here knows about it.<br /> <br /> I think a milion is a decent target. It&#039;s not perfect, but for the sake of simulating a bonus offer, the variance of the 100-1000 spins you will do over the course of the bonus wagering will me so much higher than the variance from a million samples that it won&#039;t matter. Also if some feature/win doesn&#039;t hit in a million spins I&#039;ll safely assume it won&#039;t hit in my 1000 spins.</div>

 

[trancemonkey]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote data-attributes="member: 50236" data-quote="BabylonBear" data-source="post: 994533" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/forums/goto/post?id=994533" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" rel="nofollow" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-994533">BabylonBear said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> Thanks, I appreciate that. I&#039;m totally with you, even if someone has the reel sets it doesn&#039;t mean you have reverse engineered the game.. There could be so many things going on, e.g. the reels might be different in bonus games, they might have different weights for the probabilities of landing on a certain spot, etc.. I just heard someone say they managed to get ahold of this and wanted to know if anyone here knows about it.<br /> <br /> I think a milion is a decent target. It&#039;s not perfect, but for the sake of simulating a bonus offer, the variance of the 100-1000 spins you will do over the course of the bonus wagering will me so much higher than the variance from a million samples that it won&#039;t matter. Also if some feature/win doesn&#039;t hit in a million spins I&#039;ll safely assume it won&#039;t hit in my 1000 spins. </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink js-expandLink"><a role="button" tabindex="0">Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote><br /> Well, you can assume it&#039;s around a 1 in a 1000 chance that a 1 in a million event will happen in your 1000 spins <img src="/forums/styles/default/casinomeister/smilies/smile.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-shortname=":)" /></div>