RTG software backend issues - RTP etc.

[brianzz]

Deposits tonight totaling $334.21 X 210% bonus = $1036.84 (x25 wagering = $25,921)

I don't hardly ever expect to win, especially with a mountain of wagering to meet but good god.. I barely earned 400 comp points ($4,000 in action) out of that.. not even 1/4 of the wagering requirements... practically no play time. I could understand if I was betting $10 and $20 a push but shit.. all the bets were between $1 and $2.50... nothing.. nada.. ziltch.

I honestly don't mind losing money at an online casino, I don't care but I will not be robbed by these jokers and their adjustable RTP's anymore. This just about seals it for me an gambling online.. I'd rather drive the 2 hours to the indian joint across the mountain, at least you get fed and watered there.

Is RTG packing it up and jamming it to the players because they know the feds are about to come down on them? Hell they won't pay anyone, may as well suck up all the money you can in the last few days of your business.

 

[ergopro]

Deposits tonight totaling $334.21 X 210% bonus = $1036.84 (x25 wagering = $25,921)

I don't hardly ever expect to win, especially with a mountain of wagering to meet but good god.. I barely earned 400 comp points ($4,000 in action) out of that.. not even 1/4 of the wagering requirements... practically no play time. I could understand if I was betting $10 and $20 a push but shit.. all the bets were between $1 and $2.50... nothing.. nada.. ziltch.

I honestly don't mind losing money at an online casino, I don't care but I will not be robbed by these jokers and their adjustable RTP's anymore. This just about seals it for me an gambling online.. I'd rather drive the 2 hours to the indian joint across the mountain, at least you get fed and watered there.

Is RTG packing it up and jamming it to the players because they know the feds are about to come down on them? Hell they won't pay anyone, may as well suck up all the money you can in the last few days of your business.

Was thinking the same thing yesterday when managed to lose big at one Microgaming casino. Then I thought a bit more and realized that I was thinking the same thing about Playtech a few months back. And about Rival a few months before that. In the end, at certain times felt that every frickin software was rigged Final conclusion was that I deposited too much...and still do. But yeah, over 100 deposits at Lucky Red and just a few (2 or 3, not sure) smallish cashouts, feel your pain...done with RTG. Too streaky for me.

 

[UriahHeep]

my feeling is that ALL the RTG casinos have reduced a lot their general payout in the last two months or so.

However, IMHO the group TITAN / WIN PALACE is the worst ever.
I did several deposits on both (with and without redeeming bonus) and I faced always the same situation: ridicolous payout and money vanishing in a few minutes.

I took decision to quit with RTGs, I am keeping on with JC only, cos so far this casino has been the most... "honest" as payout, and when I win something there, they pay me on Neteller in a very quick way.

 

[takethemoney]

When are people going to wise up and realize that RTG casinos are running a funky game? The writing has been coming at us for awhile now and it just keeps getting worse. Wake up and smell the toast burning, people! If we insist on playing these we must realize that when you press the deposit button, the loss has already occurred. Anything more is an anomaly, defying all normal expectations. You are feeding desperate people who cannot afford to feed YOU! The only one's supporting their last breaths are the people stupid enough to keep depositing. Stick a fork in them, they are done.

 

[ilovejesus]

your 100% right

Deposits tonight totaling $334.21 X 210% bonus = $1036.84 (x25 wagering = $25,921)

I don't hardly ever expect to win, especially with a mountain of wagering to meet but good god.. I barely earned 400 comp points ($4,000 in action) out of that.. not even 1/4 of the wagering requirements... practically no play time. I could understand if I was betting $10 and $20 a push but shit.. all the bets were between $1 and $2.50... nothing.. nada.. ziltch.

I honestly don't mind losing money at an online casino, I don't care but I will not be robbed by these jokers and their adjustable RTP's anymore. This just about seals it for me an gambling online.. I'd rather drive the 2 hours to the indian joint across the mountain, at least you get fed and watered there.

Is RTG packing it up and jamming it to the players because they know the feds are about to come down on them? Hell they won't pay anyone, may as well suck up all the money you can in the last few days of your business.

rtg r rip of sheep in wolfes clothig i lost £1570 in 3 rtg casino bad new year start

 

[Nifty29]

When are people going to wise up and realize that RTG casinos are running a funky game? The writing has been coming at us for awhile now and it just keeps getting worse. Wake up and smell the toast burning, people! If we insist on playing these we must realize that when you press the deposit button, the loss has already occurred. Anything more is an anomaly, defying all normal expectations. You are feeding desperate people who cannot afford to feed YOU! The only one's supporting their last breaths are the people stupid enough to keep depositing. Stick a fork in them, they are done.

How do you explain the fact that I have done better at RTG last year than anywhere else?

There are still reputable RTG casinos around, so your sweeping statements do not hold water.

I also don't think it is good form to insult those of us who choose to play there by calling us 'stupid'.

 

[plasticnote]

RTG slots comparing 2006 2007, a lot worse, I do agree. I used to play normally at 5$ - 20$ a spin, and now I was forced to bet 2$ or less.
I just make an example, Derby Dollar this game, if you play a lot, you will notice that free games are very very hard to get however, this is suppose to be a low variant game and free spin should be easy to get.

I want to point out not only RTG but also other platforms. All seem like worse.
This christmas and new year, total 10 days I lost about 12K WITHOUT single good hits(>1000$ at 5-10$) no matter RTG, MG or playtech.

For me, only 1 rtg (INETBET), I still can get a good win once in 3 or 4 weeks. Other RTG, like JC CWC, no matter how you play which game you play, you just can not get a good win.

SO, what can we do? nothing. if you want to play RTG and have a chance to win. Go low rolling and play at INETBET which RTP still bearable

The fact is the RTG, this software changed so much, I used to play in some RTGs, their game are set in very low RTP(90% or lower), but the bonus provided can somwhow still give you a good win once a while. However, now the rtg software just simply eliminates wins, by either after so many spins no bonus round or you get many bonus rounds in few spins but
just no wins. I do not know how RTG managed to do this and still past the techlib test nor I have proof that. That are all my feelings. If you play RTG long enough, I guess you will have similar feelings.

I used to enjoy playing RTG, however, many changes after, RTG breaks a gambler 's heart. I wonder, could we get RTG back to normal? Hopes are slim.

 

[silcnlayc]

Nifty29: How do you explain the fact that I have done better at RTG last year than anywhere else?

Nifty29, you keep saying this. It is just your word..where is some kind of proof on withdrawals or something like many of us others have posted where our losses were numerous and deposits back to back...I know I posted a screenshot of all the deposits back to back and showed some of mine when all I did was lose at every casno as many others have. KK is a classic example. He keeps great records and also shares them to show where he stands.

Just SAYING your ahead means nothing in my book because you have repeated this over and over again...and I cannot believe that you really are being totally on the up and up about that. Why? Even KK has had some real downers...and so does VMW...it seems you are the only one that is always having a "good year".

.

 

[funeral979]

I did better at RTG in 2010 than any other software platform as well. Unfortunately it was the only winning year I have had at RTG since I started gambling online (2003).

I also had a winning year at BetOnSoft, which will probably become my platform of choice this year.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Remember, a couple of RTG casinos GOT CAUGHT changing the RTP on the slot "Fruit Frenzy", because the change introduced the "two pear" anomaly on reel 2. This incident did quite a bit of damage, as it was the first time we had PROOF that some RTG casinos had been changing the RTP setting on EXISTING games. We don't know what setting this was, but if they got caught ONCE, they have probably been doing the same on the other slots, and NOT been caught because the alternate reelstrips did not have such an obvious anomaly in them. The "two pear" anomaly was spotted so fast because this was visible on the default reel position when the game was loaded, so could be seen every time the game was freshly loaded.

 

[plasticnote]

Remember, a couple of RTG casinos GOT CAUGHT changing the RTP on the slot "Fruit Frenzy", because the change introduced the "two pear" anomaly on reel 2. This incident did quite a bit of damage, as it was the first time we had PROOF that some RTG casinos had been changing the RTP setting on EXISTING games. We don't know what setting this was, but if they got caught ONCE, they have probably been doing the same on the other slots, and NOT been caught because the alternate reelstrips did not have such an obvious anomaly in them. The "two pear" anomaly was spotted so fast because this was visible on the default reel position when the game was loaded, so could be seen every time the game was freshly loaded.

Hi vinylweatherman:
I remember long long time ago, you metioned you have played RTG. Are you still playing at RTGs I mean few times a year?

I had a feeling, no proof yet ,that other than change reelstrips, they might put other way to alter payouts, or give edge to the casino. I have noticed feel abnormal things on RTG slots.

If RTG keep doing changes , I have to switch to bodog, it has all old version RTG slots I like and bodog software is not RTG anymore.

 

[gaydave]

it has all old version RTG slots I like and bodog software is not RTG anymore.

When did they change??

To what software did they change?

 

[nisosbar]

I also had a winning year at BetOnSoft, which will probably become my platform of choice this year.

I am really warming to BetOnSoft.

When did they change??

To what software did they change?

From my understanding, they purchased (rather than leased) a version of the software which was current AT THAT TIME, i.e., they purchased it in 2007, IIRC, and bought the rights to change the games as they wanted; also, to add games from other softwares; i.e., they have some of the games from the old Luck3 casino, and I don't know which company designs them, but I always enjoyed playing them.

As to the topic, I have never been enchanted with RTG. Never. I do continue to play on it, like CWC and Cherry Red, but it's not my preferred casino software and never has been.

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty29, you keep saying this. It is just your word..where is some kind of proof on withdrawals or something like many of us others have posted where our losses were numerous and deposits back to back...I know I posted a screenshot of all the deposits back to back and showed some of mine when all I did was lose at every casno as many others have. KK is a classic example. He keeps great records and also shares them to show where he stands.

Just SAYING your ahead means nothing in my book because you have repeated this over and over again...and I cannot believe that you really are being totally on the up and up about that. Why? Even KK has had some real downers...and so does VMW...it seems you are the only one that is always having a "good year".

.

Show me the part of this post, or any other, where I stated that I don't have long dry spells, or many deposits without winning?

You can't....and do you know why? I play high variance slots and video poker, so I KNOW for a fact that this will occur,and I don't cry 'rigged' when it does.

I only use neteller for gambling, and my cashouts outweigh my deposits at RTG.

Am I going to post screenies of my Neteller account? Well a casino asked me to last week and I refused for privacy reasons, so I'm hardly going to do it for you in an open forum.

So, you can either take my word for it or not. It's your choice....either way I couldn't give a gnats chuff.

KK provides in-depth records of his play which is fine. He could, however, only provide the data he wants you to see. He states he hasn't had a losing year since puss was a cat, and you accept this without question based on what is basically his word - anyone can put together a convincing spreadsheet containing selected data. He has an excellent motive given he promotes the sites he plays at - what motive do I have? Do you think I'm a paid shill or something? Give me a break. (I am by no means saying KK DOES what I just said it was an example of the fact that we ALL take what posters say on trust)

What you have done in your post is basically call me a liar, based on nothing more than stating that my experience was different to yours.

I have no doubt that if I HAD actually lied and said I got creamed at RTG last year, you would be saying 'yeah you're so right blah blah blah'. I am also 100% sure you would NOT have asked me for proof

How about Funeral? Do they have to post their logs for last year?

If you want to challenge my opinions then go ahead - that's what a forum is for and is your right as a member.

You do not, however, have the right to attack my personal integrity.

 

[silcnlayc]

Nifty29: You do not, however, have the right to attack my personal integrity.

Why must you end everything with someone "attacking" you ?? Each and every time someone disagrees and requests proof for something you repeatedly "claim" you come out guns blazing...but when the shoe is on the other foot..you call them immature and cannot hold a adult conversation...it seems..you went off on the deep end for some unknown reason here and into descriptions I never asked for or questioned...you really do not like the shoe being on the other foot , do you? Requesting proof of an opinion...

Show me the part of this post, or any other, where I stated that I don't have long dry spells, or many deposits without winning?

Um, you have not said you had these anywhere in the post I quoted....It was a simple request...

If you want to challenge my opinions then go ahead - that's what a forum is for and is your right as a member.

I thought that is what I was doing by asking you to prove your claims of always having a good year..challenging it..unlike they way you at times have badgered and beatuen up on others to prove their claims that things were different, or changing ...I mean...it is a forum...one can ask...that doesn't mean you cannot say no , does it, instead of going off on your own diatribe ??

Interesting..

.

 

[Nifty29]

Why must you end everything with someone "attacking" you ?? Each and every time someone disagrees and requests proof for something you repeatedly "claim" you come out guns blazing...but when the shoe is on the other foot..you call them immature and cannot hold a adult conversation...it seems..you went off on the deep end for some unknown reason here and into descriptions I never asked for or questioned...you really do not like the shoe being on the other foot , do you? Requesting proof of an opinion... Um, you have not said you had these anywhere in the post I quoted....It was a simple request...I thought that is what I was doing by asking you to prove your claims of always having a good year..challenging it..unlike they way you at times have badgered and beatuen up on others to prove their claims that things were different, or changing ...I mean...it is a forum...one can ask...that doesn't mean you cannot say no , does it, instead of going off on your own diatribe ??

Interesting..

.

Show me where I said that I always have a good year?

Show me where I was being childish or not "adult" in this thread.

If I tell you I am ahead at RTG, and you reply "give me proof ", you are saying you do not believe me I.e. I am lying and therefore a liar.

Show me where I have accused you of lying about your personal circumstances. I haven't and won't. If you tell me you lost, then you lost. Same if you tell me you win. I don't ask you to prove it one way or the other.

The only reason you are asking for proof is because I am claiming I'm AHEAD.

I am behind at MG and Intercasino. Do I need to post proof of that too? Of course not, because it fits in with your theories/beliefs.

Anyone is able to challenge anyone's OPINION but there are some things, particularly on a gambling forum that must be taken on trust -and someone's personal financial circumstances are one of those things. It is totally unreasonable to expect anyone to lay open their webwallets and bank accounts to public scrutiny to satisfy someone who won't show the same respect that is afforded them.

I also notice that when I ask for examples of all the transgressions you accuse me of from time to time, you fail to provide them. The only thing I am guilty of is having a contrary opinion. Apparently in your eyes, this makes me a liar.

 

[taysh075]

Hmmm I agree that RTGs seem really tight at the moment. I play at CWC and have had no problems with them regarding professionalism, payouts etc. I won and withdrew $3000.00 with them mid-year 2010. Made a further withdrawal of about $1000 a month later so can't say I had a bad year with them at all .

I will say though that I have noticed the slots being far tighter the last two months. I don't think this is a "losing streak" as I note not only the lack of withdrawals/winnings but decreased playtime, smaller wins when feature triggered (finally) etc. This has been consistent since October. I still play at CWC as I do like some of the games and think this group is good but am hoping the tightness of the slots changes soon. Already I find myself playing more on MG than RTG than previously simply because of the feeling of not being able to win.

 

[silcnlayc]

Nifty, you will have to play your games alone.



.

 

[Nifty29]

Hmmm I agree that RTGs seem really tight at the moment. I play at CWC and have had no problems with them regarding professionalism, payouts etc. I won and withdrew $3000.00 with them mid-year 2010. Made a further withdrawal of about $1000 a month later so can't say I had a bad year with them at all .

I will say though that I have noticed the slots being far tighter the last two months. I don't think this is a "losing streak" as I note not only the lack of withdrawals/winnings but decreased playtime, smaller wins when feature triggered (finally) etc. This has been consistent since October. I still play at CWC as I do like some of the games and think this group is good but am hoping the tightness of the slots changes soon. Already I find myself playing more on MG than RTG than previously simply because of the feeling of not being able to win.

I hope you are willing to provide evidence of your wins or some members may not accept your claims.

 

[brianzz]

I know the reel strip (symbol positions) have changed on Mystic Dragon at least once in the past year.

On reel 5 there are 2 bonus symbol volcano's. When the game was originally released there were at least 4 symbols between the 2 scatter symbols but now it would appear that there are just 2 symbols between the scatters. Yielding many less bonuses, IMO.

 

[happygobrokey]

awesome thread

 

[Nifty29]

Nifty, you will have to play your games alone.



.

Nice excuse not to address my argument.

It is not a game, it is a serious discussion. It's a shame you cannot see that.

 

[silcnlayc]

Nifty29: It is not a game, it is a serious discussion. It's a shame you cannot see that.

No it's not...I prefer to stay out of your sandbox , thank you...


.

 

[brianzz]

I play high variance slots and video poker, so I KNOW for a fact that this will occur,and I don't cry 'rigged' when it does.

Sorry for crying rigged Nifty, but I won't get into your fecal flinging contest.

 

[gloria460]

I use to love RTG but bringing in this NY I have to leave them alone. I did not realize that two bonus symbols were gone from mystic dragon and thus leaving less chance of hitting them.

I was wondering why it is now taking so long to hit the bonus rounds or even a decent win and now I know. I believe the same thing has happened to crystal waters. I used to hit that game quite often and get half decent wins. The bonus rounds are far and few inbetween and the wins will make you throw your computer away.

I just don't have the patience anymore for waiting on a decent hit. Losing deposits time after time. When something doesn't feel right you should follow your gut instinct.

 

[nisosbar]

I know the reel strip (symbol positions) have changed on Mystic Dragon at least once in the past year.

On reel 5 there are 2 bonus symbol volcano's. When the game was originally released there were at least 4 symbols between the 2 scatter symbols but now it would appear that there are just 2 symbols between the scatters. Yielding many less bonuses, IMO.

See? This kind of thing is precisely why RTG is just a secondary software only in my book.

 

[tat00]

has anyone else noticed mayan queen game also lost its bonus ? i used to get bonus all the time now its very difficult to even get one bonus out of it?

 

[silcnlayc]

tat00 has anyone else noticed mayan queen game also lost its bonus ? i used to get bonus all the time now its very difficult to even get one bonus out of it?

Yes, the last time I played it ( about a monthago) I thought they had changed it too..wasn't playing as it used to..but then again...it just might be my imagination...


.

 

[taysh075]

Yes, the last time I played it ( about a monthago) I thought they had changed it too..wasn't playing as it used to..but then again...it just might be my imagination...
.

Definately noticed that one myself. Getting to bonus round now is like pulling hens teeth. It used to be fairly frequent. It was one of my favourite games relegated to the "list of those not to play" because it's so tight.

 

[chuchu59]

awesome thread

DITTO TO THAT. players giving evidence to why they believe the rtp has been tampered with.

 

[all4greed]

has anyone else noticed mayan queen game also lost its bonus ? i used to get bonus all the time now its very difficult to even get one bonus out of it?

That game has never been kind to me. But some win on it so go figure...

 

[funeral979]

has anyone else noticed mayan queen game also lost its bonus ? i used to get bonus all the time now its very difficult to even get one bonus out of it?

You could look at this a different way. Maybe you were getting the bonus much more frequently than average (you did say you used to get it "all the time")....and now the variance is just evening things out for you.

I used to hate this game, never could hit anything on it. Then after several years of not hitting anything remotely decent, I got 2 big free spin rounds (over 100x bet) within 10 spins of each other.

 

[BodogBecky]

When did they change??

To what software did they change?

BodogBrand acquired the rights to the RTG Casino source code in early 2007 and since then the product has been significantly enhanced and has undergone continuous development. Today, the casino platform licensed to the Bodog brand licensees is effectively a wholly proprietary product.

Does this answer your questions?
Becky

 

[vinylweatherman]

I know the reel strip (symbol positions) have changed on Mystic Dragon at least once in the past year.

On reel 5 there are 2 bonus symbol volcano's. When the game was originally released there were at least 4 symbols between the 2 scatter symbols but now it would appear that there are just 2 symbols between the scatters. Yielding many less bonuses, IMO.

Caught AGAIN Tut Tut.......

Maybe detailed analysis of the reelstrips will blow RTG's cover on this.

BoDog may have the slots in their original 2007 reel strip configurations, and these can be taken as "before", and the same slots checked at casinos where players feel the payouts have been reduced to see if there is supporting evidence for this in altered reelstrips.

It would also be worth taking a "now" snapshot at some RTG casinos, and then some time later check again to see if any changes have been made.

Both iNetBet and Club World have stated that they have NOT messed with the RTP settings, and have always taken the games as delivered by RTG, which is the middle setting of around 95%.

Can we trust them enough to use their casinos as a "control" by assuming the reelstrips there represent the mid setting of around 95%.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hi vinylweatherman:
I remember long long time ago, you metioned you have played RTG. Are you still playing at RTGs I mean few times a year?

I had a feeling, no proof yet ,that other than change reelstrips, they might put other way to alter payouts, or give edge to the casino. I have noticed feel abnormal things on RTG slots.

If RTG keep doing changes , I have to switch to bodog, it has all old version RTG slots I like and bodog software is not RTG anymore.

I have only got Slotastic RTG installed. Rushmore got kicked out for some "funky stuff" done during an upgrade, and never put back since because of all the continuing problems.

The next RTG to see a deposit from me will be one of either Slotastic, or a reinstalled iNetBet. I don't play RTG very often, mainly because I don't like max cashout offers, or phantom bonuses. MGS has none of these, but of course lacks the decent RTG games.

 

[brianzz]

Maybe detailed analysis of the reelstrips will blow RTG's cover on this.

Hopefully I'll have something on this later in the week or early next week.. fingers are hard at work

 

[UnitedWeStand]

Im pretty sure on the Caesars Empire game the coliseum is not there every spin on reel 5. If anyone plays this game, just simply concentrate on reel 5 after spinning. You wont see it on every spin (this was a while ago on multiple sites that I noticed this).

 

[DogBoy001]

I know the reel strip (symbol positions) have changed on Mystic Dragon at least once in the past year.

On reel 5 there are 2 bonus symbol volcano's. When the game was originally released there were at least 4 symbols between the 2 scatter symbols but now it would appear that there are just 2 symbols between the scatters. Yielding many less bonuses, IMO.

Well I rarely chime in nowadays, and this is why.

Someone puts out an unfounded assertion as "fact", and it is instantly accepted as such

Caught AGAIN Tut Tut.......

DITTO TO THAT. players giving evidence to why they believe the rtp has been tampered with.

See? This kind of thing is precisely why RTG is just a secondary software only in my book.

For the record, in all RTP variants (since it is common knowledge that there are RTP variants), there are now, and have always been , 4 symbols in between the 2 Volcano symbols on reel 5:

Volcano
10
K
Knight
Q
Volcano

Note, also, that the original assertion states:

but now it would appear that there are just 2 symbols between the scatters. Yielding many less bonuses, IMO.

Brianzz original statement didn't say that the number of trigger symbols had been reduced, but rather that the number of symbols in between had changed, and that this was somehow affecting the number of trigger events.

Well, actually, it wouldn't matter whether there's 2 or 4 symbols in between the scatters, it would still yield the same number of trigger combinations.

Surprised you didn't note that yourself VWM

Wooof

 

[petro]

I'll get around to Bodog one day.
Casino seems pretty well represented here and on other sites.
It is completely untrue that they have english speaking live chat.
They have quasi-english speaking peoples.
But hey, there is nothing wrong with that as long as they can still communicate thats fine.

Because of all the good recommendations I will try them out.
They have Pick 'em Poker, returning 99.95% which is one of the best video pokers I have found yet.
Pick 'em Poker also has an extremely low variance of 15, which is pretty rare to see on video poker.
This one afaik is one of the safest RTGs.

 

[plasticnote]

Regarding Bodog version of (RTG)slots, I am planing to give a try sometime this month. I will test this game - "Derby dollar" and comparing with current version on RTG. In between 2007 - 2010. I played this game extensively and across different RTGs, I have hit total 7 RJs on this slots game, however, since 2010 Jan, I feel this game has been altered quite a lot. In old days, on derby dollar, after the 1st reel stop, by looking at second reel I can tell if I would get free spin or not. But now, it does not work anymore, I get far less free spins and far less wins.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Well I rarely chime in nowadays, and this is why.

Someone puts out an unfounded assertion as "fact", and it is instantly accepted as such







For the record, in all RTP variants (since it is common knowledge that there are RTP variants), there are now, and have always been , 4 symbols in between the 2 Volcano symbols on reel 5:

Volcano
10
K
Knight
Q
Volcano

Note, also, that the original assertion states:



Brianzz original statement didn't say that the number of trigger symbols had been reduced, but rather that the number of symbols in between had changed, and that this was somehow affecting the number of trigger events.

Well, actually, it wouldn't matter whether there's 2 or 4 symbols in between the scatters, it would still yield the same number of trigger combinations.

Surprised you didn't note that yourself VWM
Wooof

I did, but the point was about the reelstrips being changed on the sly, rather than the effects the changes might have.

Whatever the facts about THIS case, there is no denying that it DID happen on Fruit Frenzy, and if RTG operators are prepared to do this once, they will do it again - they just can't be trusted not to, they will just be more careful about getting caught in the future (probably by leaving Fruit Frenzy alone, and checking whether the change makes the slot load showing a different layout).

By your own evidence, changes in reelstrips are down to a change in the RTP setting, so if we can show that reelstrips have changed on a slot at any one casino, we also show that RTP has been changed.

Refusing to disclose reelstrips only buys time for RTG, like it did for MGS (who got caught out on 5 Reel Drive - weighted slot).

The evidence is out there, just hard to bring together.

In order to determine whether symbols vanish on some spins, you CANNOT just look at the spinning animation, since it doesn't show the entire reel. I don't think this charge will be proven, since it seems that RTG slots run on one of 3 settings, and don't jump from one to the other on different spins.

The best start would be to analyze a simple slot, one with a fixed number of free spins, and no reel changes for the bonus round. This would allow the RTG to be calculated from the reelstrips, rules, and paytables. This slot could then be checked at "trusted" RTG casinos, and then at "questionable" ones where players feel they are being cheated to see if there is evidence that their experiences are down to a change of RTP setting.

The thing is, SOMETHING has changed, we just can't agree on WHAT has changed.

 

[DogBoy001]

The thing is, SOMETHING has changed, we just can't agree on WHAT has changed.

Actually, no, NOTHING has changed with Mystic Dragon, you just CHOOSE to BELIEVE that something has changed.

Flashback to 2007 and it was "these slots are rigged! Bring back the good ol' days of 2005!"
Then in 2009 it was: "oh my god something's changed, bring back the slots of 2007!"
Now that it's 2011: "Surely something's been changed! They're sure different to the way they were in 2009!"

Brings me back to my previous parting statement:
People will believe what they WANT to believe

Wooof

 

[Nifty29]

Great to have you back DogBoy

It's refreshing to have someone present some cold hard facts for us to chew on!

Please don't be a stranger. Ignore those who just want to shoot you down to further their own agendas - there are plenty of us who are happy to be allowed to share your knowledge

 

[slotplayer]

This is just a general statment but if you play a slot often enough you will notice if there is a change in its behaivor.

 

[aceking123]

hi dogboy001 , welcome back ! got a question for you ,anychance of clarifying that these new slots have been set @95% across the board in stone so they cannot be changed ? . if i remember someone has brought this up on the forum not so long ago , maybe it was bryan ? im sure it was mentioned.

 

[brianzz]

Awwww, I'm so glad Nifty made a friend, as we all have our own agendas, right Nifty?

But back to the point at hand. To change a video slot, or any slot for that matter, RTP you manipulate the number of symbols on a reel, whether it be a virtual reel (3 reel games) or the physical reel (5 reel games).

RTG has made this way too easy for the those in the know. When the Real Series slots are spinning, it shows the entire physical reel strip while spinning, not just an animation like some MG games. 2 stops before the reel comes to a rest the physical reel stops spinning and moves to a position on the physical reel 2 symbols from the final RNG determined resting point. Confusing? Yes, but easy to catch with frame by frame.

I'm currently mapping physical reel strips from a few RS games from the 2007 (Bodog) version to the current (just downloaded last night) RTG version from one of the more questionable casinos currently having player payment issues.

What will this prove?
Most likely there's a whole new set of reel strips with symbols added, subtracted, moved around, etc. Other than the fact that RTG vehemently claims that nothing has changed on their slots. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but remember during free spins the counter would never get to 0 on RTG slots? Well now it does, so that itself proves something changed. Programming? Maybe but if you're going to mess with the spin counter why don't you see how much you can screw the player out of in the process, they're stupid slot machine players, they'll NEVER know the difference, yet we do.

What does this mean?
As stated above.. the only way to manipulate a slot return is to change things on the reels.. either symbols or weight them (5 reel drive as previously mentioned).

So if you find a difference, then what?
Well, it proves that someone is fibbing... who? ::shrug::

I'm not sure if it was this thread or another says well such and such casino doesn't take this player or that player anymore and this one can't deposit with this that or the other, blah blah. If the games are truly random, previous play will have no outcome at all on future results.

 

[funeral979]

@ brianzz:

I am not quite sure what you mean by the free spin counter going down to zero? As far back as I can remember, when you are in the middle of free spins, on the last spin it would always say "0 free spins remaining" on the last spin. Is this what you were referring to? I have not seen a change in this.

 

[DogBoy001]

But back to the point at hand. To change a video slot, or any slot for that matter, RTP you manipulate the number of symbols on a reel, whether it be a virtual reel (3 reel games) or the physical reel (5 reel games).

Your assertion was that Mystic Dragon reel 5 had changed.
It has not, and does not, in any RTP variant.

RTG has made this way too easy for the those in the know. When the Real Series slots are spinning, it shows the entire physical reel strip while spinning, not just an animation like some MG games.

Incorrect.
It does not show the "entire" reel, this would not be workable, as reels are of different lengths but the spin time is constant.
It shows a portion of the reel from the point of the last stop, and then switches to show a portion of the reel leading up to the new stop position (determined randomly and unweighted - each stop position has the same chance of being hit)

2 stops before the reel comes to a rest the physical reel stops spinning and moves to a position on the physical reel 2 symbols from the final RNG determined resting point. Confusing? Yes, but easy to catch with frame by frame.

Confusing?
How else would it be done, praytell?
This is how it is done in the bricks & mortar industry as well...I should know, I worked for IGT.

I'm currently mapping physical reel strips from a few RS games from the 2007 (Bodog) version to the current (just downloaded last night) RTG version from one of the more questionable casinos currently having player payment issues.

What will this prove?
Most likely there's a whole new set of reel strips with symbols added, subtracted, moved around, etc.

Most likely that not a thing has changed.

Other than the fact that RTG vehemently claims that nothing has changed on their slots. I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before but remember during free spins the counter would never get to 0 on RTG slots? Well now it does, so that itself proves something changed. Programming? Maybe but if you're going to mess with the spin counter why don't you see how much you can screw the player out of in the process, they're stupid slot machine players, they'll NEVER know the difference, yet we do.

So let me get this right...

Quite correctly, players complain that the free spin counter does not decrement until the end of the spin, and therefore shows 1 free game on the last spin (until it stops spinning).
However, if the last free spin yields no win, the player never sees this decrement to 0 remaining (i.e.: It should decrement at the start of the spin, not at the end, in order to more accurately show how many are remaining)

This gets fixed...and yet you believe that by fixing this display, RTG has screwed the player in the process?
I don't see how that follows.

What does this mean?
As stated above.. the only way to manipulate a slot return is to change things on the reels.. either symbols or weight them (5 reel drive as previously mentioned).

Incorrect again.
If the game uses a probability schedule in awarding, for example, bonus prizes, this may be adjusted.

Thus a game's reel strips could remain constant across all RTP variants and yet bonus prizes being awarded, or "pick to reveal" number of free games and so forth, could be higher or lower in some variants.

And again, this is how it is done in the bricks & mortar industry as well, this is not an unusual system.

And if there is any US-based regulation, you can bet your boots that operators will be allowed to change between several RTP settings.
And if it's as per the B&M system (which it would be, regulators love consistency and doing as little work as possible) then RTP changes will be able to be made periodically and without notification or display.

So if you find a difference, then what?
Well, it proves that someone is fibbing... who? ::shrug::

Unlike yourself, I am not insinuating that you of being untruthful.

I am stating that you are misinformed and drawing erroneous conclusions from subjective and highly variable pieces of information that do not give you a complete picture or understanding of the slot process.

Wooof

 

[secret2]

So, you can either take my word for it or not. It's your choice....either way I couldn't give a gnats chuff.

You had me at 'gnats chuff'.

Sorry, carry on.

 

[Seventh777]

How will altering the reel strips change a pre-determined spin?, as we all know only to well, as soon as you hit that spin button the RNG Gods have calculated your win, the eye candy that is the reel strips will fall into place to accurately reflect this.