Casino Complaint Redbet: 'Losing' my deposit due to a technical error...

[saladfingers]

Hope someone can help with this? I've hit a dead end with Redbet's support. To keep it brief:

a) I'm a long-time Redbet player, never had a problem before. I made a Visa deposit last week which failed to process due to some sort of technical error at their end. But when I checked my bank account, the money had disappeared from my bank balance. My Redbet balance didn't change.

b) I contacted support via chat but that came to nothing, so I emailed them. I was told it was a technical error, then that they could find no trace of my deposit, then to wait for five days for it to roll back automatically, then, when it was still missing, to send in a bank statement.

c) I've explained three times to them that my bank statement does not show the transaction because, as the bank told me, the payment is stuck in "pending" status. It won't show on my statement until Redbet find the transaction and cancel it from their end. But they just keep responding by ignoring that and asking for a bank statement again.

d) Which is why I'm stuck and posting here. My bank say that due to the Visa guarantee they cannot cancel or block or retrieve the payment, so it'll stay "pending". And for as long as it is "pending" it will not show on my statement - and the only people who can do anything about it are Redbet. Redbet just keep asking for a bank statement - so I'm stuck in a loop...

Any ideas would be appreciated. I've always thought Redbet seemed pretty decent - but this is their technical error, which has left me out of pocket - and they won't do anything about it?

 

[Jasminebed]

I suggest you PM the rep, send a screenshot of your bank, and Redbet needs to get their payment processor involved.

I think you will find it drops off and will be returned to your account after a certain amount of time if a merchant does not "pick it up". This can be anywhere between 7 and 90 days, depending on your bank and the amount of the deposit

I've had a couple of instances of this with a credit card deposit.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Had this happen a few times throughout my gaming years, or similar situations at least.. apparently it's really hard sometimes to pinpoint exactly where the technical error occurred, or which of the processors involved is really 'at fault' here..

You could p.m. one of their reps here, i believe Adam would be most suited for this issue
I assume you'll get your deposit back eventually, although i am not yet sure if that will be from Visa or Redbet..
Last time i had something like this, it took around 3 days for my money to arrive, plus two screenshots of the transaction with number.

Anyway, they will help you, p.m. Adam, and i think it will be solved as soon as possible

Edit: whilst i was typing, Jazzy already typed pretty much the same

 

[saladfingers]

Anyway, they will help you, p.m. Adam, and i think it will be solved as soon as possible

Hi - thanks to you both for your quick replies, much appreciated. I sent Adam a PM when I posted the complaint, so I hope he will see it and take a look.

Just to say though that as I set out above, the screenshot from my bank would show nothing. That's why I'm stuck in this loop with their support. The transaction doesn't show on my bank statement, and the bank say it won't until it changes from "Pending" status - which only Redbet can action.

I'm just really disappointed with their response to all this. They've not taken any responsibility for a loyal player's deposit going missing due to a technical error at their end.

I've been without this money for seven days now. Am I really supposed to just sit and wait for up to 90 days and hope it reappears?

 

[saladfingers]

As an update - Redbet have just responded again, and basically absolved themselves of responsibility.

They have confirmed it was a technical error with their payment provider ("error 202 - Brick acquisition failure, meaning an unlocked brick was not found within the time allotted for locking a brick", whatever that means...)

But instead of take responsibility for that, they're telling me to phone my bank again. They've basically washed their hands of it.

I'm left without the money, and a wait of apparently up to 90 days for it to find its way back into my bank balance. No apology, no gesture of compensation, nothing.

Safe to say I won't be playing at Redbet again, sadly.

 

[goatwack]

Well I can't say I envy your predicament much. I've had a few deposits at Redbet 'hang' in limbo, even if for a brief moment. Can't remember the exact message displayed, but I knew full well the money had departed from my bank card but not shown up yet. Maybe a minute or two later it would show up, but it didn't stop me bricking it.

Who knows how I'd have reacted if nothing appeared in my balance but it is an unnecessary delay that indicates that they ought to update their payment processors.

The blame lies solely with Redbet as far as I can see and I'm very surprised at their negative stance

 

[Harry_BKK]

Something similar.

Tried to withdraw with my Ecopayz card from an ATM here in Bangkok, done it zillions of times without issues. ATM says card no good, but as i found out later the amount was taken from my account, 10.000 THB. Stupidly i retried twice the same amount with the same result. Total some 800EUR swerving through "banking/processor nirwana".

This happened on 22nd May, today i received the money back. More than 4 weeks they needed to find out what happened.

What, i am trying to say is that the money will reappear at some point, no doubt, only a matter of weeks rather than days.

Redbet can't do much as the money never arrived in their accounts, hence your bank will wait until it is returned because it goes unclaimed. This is the max. 90 day period.

It is clearly NOT Redbet's fault, they only have a record that the transaction was declined, nothing else, hence not much they can do.

 

[saladfingers]

Thanks Harry.

Bottom line is it's awful customer service, though. They've just shrugged it off.

In short: I make a deposit in good faith, they lose it due to a technical error, and they take no responsibility for me being left out of pocket for weeks/months. They don't even apologise.

Would a major online shop or any other type of retailer behave the same way?

I hope, at least, that players who see this thread will be aware of what to expect from Redbet if this happens to them.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Thanks Harry.

Bottom line is it's awful customer service, though. They've just shrugged it off.

In short: I make a deposit in good faith, *they lose it due to a technical error, and they take no responsibility for me being left out of pocket for weeks/months. They don't even apologise.

**Would a major online shop or any other type of retailer behave the same way?

I hope, at least, that players who see this thread will be aware of what to expect from Redbet if this happens to them.

* They did not lose it. Your bank received a request to send the amount you wanted to deposit, checked that there is enough in the account and sent the money on its way, but it never made it to Redbet. That is why you got the declined transaction screen. Your money is stuck somewhere between your bank and the processors, there can be multiple between a merchant and the bank.

Redbet probably checked as far as they can do from their end and were not able to locate the money/transaction. Hence, it must be somewhere further up in the chain.

** Yes, they would do the same. I went into the bank branch next to the ATM and they started an investigation. Ecopayz just took the money from my account although i informed them that it was not paid out but in their records it showed "withdrawn". Only when the bank sent them a message did they credit the wrongly debited amounts back to my account. But they shrugged it off just as you think Redbet has done it.

I suppose, especially for international transactions nobody really knows how many intermediaries are playing a part to execute it correctly.

 

[saladfingers]

Well, I guess if you think that they've handled it well, I can't argue - but they've lost a loyal, long-term player.

I know it's a casino - but I don't expect to lose my money before I've even had a chance to press 'spin'.

In future, players should be aware that with Redbet/Whitebet etc, the risk starts from the moment you hit deposit - and if it goes wrong, you're on your own.

 

[incrediblestuff]

What Harry and i more or less said, about processors, means that this is indeed not Redbet's fault persé, and we don't exactly know which sub-processor is responsible for the hiccup, and these are delicate matters, hence they can take up to 90 days..

However, in my personal experience it has never taken longer then a week. But i also had it happen one time where it concerned my last deposit from my roll, which was a bigger one then my average too..definitely sucked, so i understand it's frustrating, but i would reconsider leaving Redbet for such a matter. After all, you only talked to their Live Chat and general Support through mail (or so i assume) and perhaps they didn't feel you were really inconvenienced, or failed to explain to you it is not their fault, or they can not do much about it.. (or so i assume)

I definitely would wait and see what Adam says, i am sure he would normally make things right with a gesture of good will.
If all my assumptions are wrong, and it was on their end after all, then i am sure you'll be compensated, but i really think this won't turn out to be the case.

What i mean is if you leave a Casino for this reason, you may in the near future end up without any Casino to play at, as these things can happen anywhere, anytime really. Of course some support members are more qualified or 'sympathetic' then others, and it differs per Casino, as to what exactly they are allowed to do, when issue's arise. Some can give comps under strict conditions, some have access to back-end player logs and can solve issue's, but most don't.

You have to look at the bigger picture, and give management a chance to solve this in a manner that resolves any issue you may have with the situation, and remember that it is most likely not their fault at all.

Hope you get your money back soon..

 

[goatwack]

Sorry, the way I see it is that I make a deposit at Redbet, money leaves my account, nothing shows up. I did my part at their site, this is why their accountable. It's like getting food poisoning at a restaurant, with the restaurant absolving themselves of blame and blaming their supplier.

It's not my problem as a customer, you've just left me in limbo through no fault of my own. It happened on their site, end of

 

[Harry_BKK]

Sorry, the way I see it is that I make a deposit at Redbet, money leaves my account, nothing shows up. I did my part at their site, this is why their accountable. It's like getting food poisoning at a restaurant, with the restaurant absolving themselves of blame and blaming their supplier.

It's not my problem as a customer, you've just left me in limbo through no fault of my own. It happened on their site, end of

LOL, now you sound like a drama queen food poisining, really? .. LOOOL

This is the exact reason why Visa/MC and all the others agreed that any unclaimed amounts will go back to the senders account after 90 days. However, in most cases the money is found earlier as it was in my case.

If the money never arrived at Redbet's processor they simply can't see it. It is only the sending bank and the card company (Visa or MC) who have access to that data, hence the bank should help the OP by launching an investigation to speed things up.

Happens more often than you think considering there are billions of debit/credit card transactions every day.

 

[goatwack]

LOL, now you sound like a drama queen food poisining, really? .. LOOOL

This is the exact reason why Visa/MC and all the others agreed that any unclaimed amounts will go back to the senders account after 90 days. However, in most cases the money is found earlier as it was in my case.

If the money never arrived at Redbet's processor they simply can't see it. It is only the sending bank and the card company (Visa or MC) who have access to that data, hence the bank should help the OP by launching an investigation to speed things up.

Happens more often than you think considering there are billions of debit/credit card transactions every day.

You obviously haven't dined out where I live

The bottom line still remains: I don't care. I deposited at your site and now I'm left crossing off the days on my calendar in the hope of getting it back. Not good enough, sorry!

 

[incrediblestuff]

Sorry, the way I see it is that I make a deposit at Redbet, money leaves my account, nothing shows up. I did my part at their site, this is why their accountable. It's like getting food poisoning at a restaurant, with the restaurant absolving themselves of blame and blaming their supplier.

It's not my problem as a customer, you've just left me in limbo through no fault of my own. It happened on their site, end of

Well, i see your point, and i know a lot of punters may share this opinion, however, it's more complicated, then the restaurant example. In the restaurant example you had some sort of service, in the form of a a bad meal. And a good restaurant would definitely make things right afterwards, even if their supplier, who delivered bad goods, was the cause.

Imagine you are sure you have money in your account, and you are arriving at a toll booth, near the border, where you have to pay to get to your holiday destination. For whatever reason, you see the message 'successful deposit' on your little pin-screen, yet the processor that is between your bank and the toll booths bank, has a hiccup, and the guy in the booth, only sees , 'transaction unsuccessful' because it never is received: he can't let you pass, so who do you blame? Do you yell at the guy in the booth, and demand passage? You may get shot, depending on the Country you're in

Just saying, that whilst i know it sucks big time, you can't get worked up about Redbet really. It's something that may happen at any time whilst trying to do a digital transaction...

It's part of the times were living in, sadly.

@ saladfingers:

I do believe these sort of issues happen considerably less with a web-wallet like Neteller, or at least seem to be easier to solve, as there's always a transaction number to fall back on.

Maybe it's an option to start using one of those (if you are able to), to avoid similar occurrences in the future, as much as possible.

 

[Harry_BKK]

You obviously haven't dined out where I live

The bottom line still remains: I don't care. I deposited at your site and now I'm left crossing off the days on my calendar in the hope of getting it back. Not good enough, sorry!

Must visit you then to try your fine dining establishments

OK, one more time why Redbet can't do much:

- player hits the SUBMIT button on the banking page
- Redbet getting the deposit request and forwards it to the right processor
- processor gets the data packet and sends it to Visa/MC
- they receive it, check that it is indeed one of their card numbers and forward it to the issuing bank server
- bank receives the request, checks the account has enough credit and OK's the transaction
- data packet makes its way back to Redbet's processor but never gets there
- standard is that the processor will try 3 times to receive the data packet before issuing the declined message
- Redbet receives the message that the transaction was declined and displays that on the screen

That's it, not to mention all the sub-processors that can and are used by the banks/card companies/processors, especially with international transactions.

So what can Redbet see:

- data packet for transaction request sent to processor and "received" confirmation from the processor
- declined message from processor

What can the processor see:

- data packet received from Redbet
- data packet submitted for approval and confirmation that it was received
- approval not received in a time frame, then approval request repeated 3 times
- no answer, processor declines transaction and sends the result to Redbet

Hence, the merchant just has no way of investigating that much.

 

[goatwack]

Must visit you then to try your fine dining establishments

OK, one more time why Redbet can't do much:

- player hits the SUBMIT button on the banking page
- Redbet getting the deposit request and forwards it to the right processor
- processor gets the data packet and sends it to Visa/MC
- they receive it, check that it is indeed one of their card numbers and forward it to the issuing bank server
- bank receives the request, checks the account has enough credit and OK's the transaction
- data packet makes its way back to Redbet's processor but never gets there
- standard is that the processor will try 3 times to receive the data packet before issuing the declined message
- Redbet receives the message that the transaction was declined and displays that on the screen

That's it, not to mention all the sub-processors that can and are used by the banks/card companies/processors, especially with international transactions.

So what can Redbet see:

- data packet for transaction request sent to processor and "received" confirmation from the processor
- declined message from processor

What can the processor see:

- data packet received from Redbet
- data packet submitted for approval and confirmation that it was received
- approval not received in a time frame, then approval request repeated 3 times
- no answer, processor declines transaction and sends the result to Redbet

Hence, the merchant just has no way of investigating that much.

Alright man, I got it first time, thankyou! I love you an' all, I just don't have to agree with you on this point you patronizing bastard, I mean honey bun

 

[saladfingers]

The bottom line still remains: I don't care. I deposited at your site and now I'm left crossing off the days on my calendar in the hope of getting it back. Not good enough, sorry!

This is pretty much how I feel. I do understand all the explanations, and thanks for them, but the bottom line is the I have paid for a service I didn't get - and I'm being made to wait potentially *three months* for my money back.

I just can't imagine any other industry shrugging that off with quite so much indifference.

 

[Jasminebed]

Well, I guess if you think that they've handled it well, I can't argue - but they've lost a loyal, long-term player.

I know it's a casino - but I don't expect to lose my money before I've even had a chance to press 'spin'.

In future, players should be aware that with Redbet/Whitebet etc, the risk starts from the moment you hit deposit - and if it goes wrong, you're on your own.

It's not just Redbet though. It can happen anywere. Some data transmission fails along the line somewhere.

Part just depends where the failure lies.

It was not the first time I had an issue, but the first was solved after a weekend elapsed. But the casino payments teamed worked with their processor and my card processor, a few emails were needed and with my time zone difference, it took 11 days, instead of the 14 days it would have naturally been resolved.

It took a lot of man hours for the casino to help me this way.

It was ultimately down to the payment processor.

If your payment was less than $25, I would expect you'd see it back in a week. $100 might be two weeks, and over that expect up to 90 days. Not just based on my experience, but over years reading here.

If you've been happy enough with Redbet all these years, I would not leave over a single instance.

It was never my intention to be patronizing, and I realize that the same was said before I hit the enter key.

 

[saladfingers]

It's not just Redbet though. It can happen anywere. Some data transmission fails along the line somewhere.

Thanks for the reply. I get how it happened - but I'm sorry, I still can't see why I'm supposed to just shrug it off, and cut the casino some slack...

Again, I'm a long-term customer who made a purchase, got nothing in return and lost access to the money as a result of a technical error experienced while on their site. It's their payment process which failed, not mine.

I'm just amazed by their indifference. No apology, just some abrupt emails - and still no contact from the rep here.

imagine if it happened while making a purchase at Amazon, for instance - or any online retailer with a reputation it wanted to protect and customers it wanted to keep...

Anyway, I've made my point I guess. I'll now just have to wait up to three months for my money back.

Hope this will all serve as a useful warning to anyone else who uses Redbet/Whitebet.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The bank have also handled this very badly, they have washed their hands of the issue and said the money is never going to be returned unless Redbet do something from their end - which is bollocks. The bank should be investigating the issue from their end, and the error message about "unlocked bricks" that they quoted should be passed to the bank.

If the bank don't act, make it formal by invoking the formal complaints procedure. This then means they have a maximum of 8 weeks to deal with the issue internally before it can be passed to the ombudsman. This is still not good, but the ombudsman can also recommend that the bank compensates you for any knock on effects of their failure to act.

The VISA guarantee scheme does NOT mean that you lose your money for 90 days, and that the bank can't sort the matter out BECAUSE the VISA guarantee scheme is stopping them - this is a load of bollocks. The VISA guarantee scheme, along with other schemes and regulations, mean that the customer can deal with such an issue through their bank if they are not getting anywhere with the retailer. Here, money was taken from the account, locked from use, but the virtual goods did not turn up (casino chips). The retailer has now confirmed that the money never reached them, and have provided the error message. It's now the responsibility of the bank to deal with this because the money is still at the bank, it is the BANK that have moved it out of reach. If it was stuck at the processor, the amount would have been properly debited from the card, not merely held pending by the bank.

These failures are an expected problem in commerce, and not just online, but even when terminals in shops or ATMs suffer from technical errors. Banks are expected to have robust systems in place to ensure that money does not simply disappear, as this is key to maintaining confidence in the modern system of electronic payments.

Far from 30 days, banks normally drop unclaimed pending charges after about a week, so it's worth checking today to see if this pending charge dropped during last night's banking update, which would be the one that deals with the weekend's transactions. If not, put pressure on the bank to say exactly where the money is sitting whilst it is shown as "pending".

If this happens on a credit card it's not so bad, a pending transaction would make part of the credit limit unavailable, but you would not owe the money unless and until it is posted to the statement.

 

[saladfingers]

Hi Vinylweatherman - thanks very much for taking the time to write all that and have a think about my situation.

No, the money has still not reappeared in my account - the bank are now saying to expect it to turn up within 14-21 days. Beyond that, they insist, there is nothing they can do.

I'll have a think about the formal complaints process.

Meanwhile, still no word from the Redbet rep.

 

[saladfingers]

Just an update to this:

a) Still no money back in the bank (who continue to insist they are powerless);

b) No more contact from Redbet support, who have clearly washed their hands of it;

and c) No contact at all from the Redbet rep here, who either hasn't noticed this thread and my DM, or has ignored them.

So in short: if you play at Redbet/Whitebet and their payment processor loses your money, tough luck. You're on your own.

 

[Tirilej]

Just an update to this:

a) Still no money back in the bank (who continue to insist they are powerless);

b) No more contact from Redbet support, who have clearly washed their hands of it;

and c) No contact at all from the Redbet rep here, who either hasn't noticed this thread and my DM, or has ignored them.

So in short: if you play at Redbet/Whitebet and their payment processor loses your money, tough luck. You're on your own.

My guess is that Adam is on a vacation because he is normally in here often.
Have you tried Marius? https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/36449/
Now he haven't been in this week either but you could at least try.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just an update to this:

a) Still no money back in the bank (who continue to insist they are powerless);

b) No more contact from Redbet support, who have clearly washed their hands of it;

and c) No contact at all from the Redbet rep here, who either hasn't noticed this thread and my DM, or has ignored them.

So in short: if you play at Redbet/Whitebet and their payment processor loses your money, tough luck. You're on your own.

You will have to make a formal complaint about the way the bank have handled this, this is the only way they are going to be forced to reveal WHY they are taking this stance, and whether they really are as powerless as they claim. The resolution of this investigation may also discover the degree to which the casino are to blame, or at least their processor.

Even if the bank do eventually put the money back, you can complain that you were not "treated fairly" by the way the bank refused to help in any meaningful way, leaving you short of funds for such an extended period of time.

The bank certainly have the power to unblock the money as it's not been taken from your account, it's merely been frozen by the bank, and they are hardly "powerless" to simply unfreeze it so that you do not suffer due to a failure in the international banking systems. For example, if you dispute a transaction, the bank will have to refund it immediately for you to use, even though they have yet to retrieve the money back from the merchant, and there is no guarantee that they will as a dodgy merchant will move the money out of reach because they will expect this, and an honest merchant would dispute the dispute by putting forward their side of the story.

 

[saladfingers]

Hi Tirilej & Vinylweatherman - thanks again for the replies.

I'll make a formal complaint to the bank as you suggest.

If I make any progress - or hear anything from Redbet, which seems unlikely - I'll post here again. It's now been 12 days since the money vanished...

 

[saladfingers]

The bank have returned my money at last, so thanks again for the advice on this thread.

They told me they needed to have written confirmation from Redbet that they would not try to claim the "pending" amount, and Redbet's support provided that.

Still no word from any Redbet rep here, or any apology, though. Not great, is it?

 

[chuchu59]

The bank have returned my money at last, so thanks again for the advice on this thread.

They told me they needed to have written confirmation from Redbet that they would not try to claim the "pending" amount, and Redbet's support provided that.

Still no word from any Redbet rep here, or any apology, though. Not great, is it?

While an apology from Redbet may be a diplomatic way to end the matter I cannot honestly see how Redbet has erred here.

 

[saladfingers]

Hi - well, I've said it earlier on the thread, but in short: I made a deposit, their payment process failed, my deposit disappeared from my bank account - and they told me it was my problem to sort out. Does that explain it?

 

[Alfran]

Hi - well, I've said it earlier on the thread, but in short: I made a deposit, their payment process failed, my deposit disappeared from my bank account - and they told me it was my problem to sort out. Does that explain it?

It is a bitter thing to happen. However i can see how it was out of Redbets hands. I am sure they were pretty sure that upon waiting period the bank would return the money, however they couldnt do anything to speed it up... so everyone had to let it run its course.
I guess where they could have handled it better is a softer approach with you, from what i gather. Perhaps reassure you that if all is as you have said, then the funds will surely appear or hand hold you into how to deal with your bank. Although i can see their point where somethings have to be dealt between you and your bank and not a third party (them).

 

[vinylweatherman]

It is a bitter thing to happen. However i can see how it was out of Redbets hands. I am sure they were pretty sure that upon waiting period the bank would return the money, however they couldnt do anything to speed it up... so everyone had to let it run its course.
I guess where they could have handled it better is a softer approach with you, from what i gather. Perhaps reassure you that if all is as you have said, then the funds will surely appear or hand hold you into how to deal with your bank. Although i can see their point where somethings have to be dealt between you and your bank and not a third party (them).

It turns out they could, all the bank needed was a written confirmation from the merchant that they would not try to claim this pending transaction, and as soon as the bank had it, they returned the money. Clearly, Redbet should have done this right at the start, and this would have been over in a day or two. As it stands, the money was effectively frozen because although the technical error meant the money didn't move to Redbet, the technical error also meant that the authorisation was not cancelled either, so the money was stuck in limbo till either RedBet claimed it, or cancelled the hold, which has to be done from the merchant's end, nothing to do with the player.

It may still be worth escalating the matter as technical problems and uncooperative merchants should not be the customer's problem, and the current system does not allow for an easy return of the held money when there is a technical failure after the authorisation has been given by the bank, but which makes it impossible for the merchant to ever call upon that authorisation. The bank should not have left it to the customer to do the chasing as these are technical issues with the behind the scenes systems that banks and merchants use to move money when we buy things, and so it should be someone from the bank that troubleshoots on behalf of the customer when technical failures cause money to be "stuck" in the system.

Of course, this resolution proves that all along this money had never left the bank, they were hanging on to it to cover their own arse just in case the technical issue was resolved in such a way that the money was called upon by the merchant.

If you dispute a charge, the bank are certainly not "unable to help" then, they can even pull back money that has already left and gone to the merchant, so maybe the problem here is that the request wasn't made properly, and maybe you had to enter a formal dispute for the charge on the grounds that what you were charged for "casino chips" never arrived, and the merchant was saying that they never would because the money didn't reach them.

 

[saladfingers]

It turns out they could, all the bank needed was a written confirmation from the merchant that they would not try to claim this pending transaction, and as soon as the bank had it, they returned the money. Clearly, Redbet should have done this right at the start.

Hi - thanks again for your help resolving this, really appreciate it. And yes, that's why this is so annoying - if Redbet had taken responsibility on day one, this never would have happened. They just weren't interested, implying it was my problem, not theirs.

As I said earlier in the thread, imagine this happening when making a purchase at Amazon or any other online retailer that valued its customers - if their payment process failed and locked your money, they wouldn't just shrug it off. Just because it's a casino and a virtual product, it shouldn't be any different.

(still no contact from the rep, by the way!)

 

[Alfran]

It turns out they could, all the bank needed was a written confirmation from the merchant that they would not try to claim this pending transaction, and as soon as the bank had it, they returned the money. Clearly, Redbet should have done this right at the start, and this would have been over in a day or two. As it stands, the money was effectively frozen because although the technical error meant the money didn't move to Redbet, the technical error also meant that the authorisation was not cancelled either, so the money was stuck in limbo till either RedBet claimed it, or cancelled the hold, which has to be done from the merchant's end, nothing to do with the player.

It may still be worth escalating the matter as technical problems and uncooperative merchants should not be the customer's problem, and the current system does not allow for an easy return of the held money when there is a technical failure after the authorisation has been given by the bank, but which makes it impossible for the merchant to ever call upon that authorisation. The bank should not have left it to the customer to do the chasing as these are technical issues with the behind the scenes systems that banks and merchants use to move money when we buy things, and so it should be someone from the bank that troubleshoots on behalf of the customer when technical failures cause money to be "stuck" in the system.

Of course, this resolution proves that all along this money had never left the bank, they were hanging on to it to cover their own arse just in case the technical issue was resolved in such a way that the money was called upon by the merchant.

If you dispute a charge, the bank are certainly not "unable to help" then, they can even pull back money that has already left and gone to the merchant, so maybe the problem here is that the request wasn't made properly, and maybe you had to enter a formal dispute for the charge on the grounds that what you were charged for "casino chips" never arrived, and the merchant was saying that they never would because the money didn't reach them.

Oh. Thanks for that. If thats the case then it should be done without question since these cases and technical problems do happen. Should be added to their procedures, as with other merchants. Or at least more clear way to explain to the client with instructions.

 

[Daniel L]

I'm not quite sure what the confusion is here - this is simply poor from Redbet & they would not be seeing my deposits again with this attitude. I think they should offer some comps to reassure the player.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Redbet themselves didn't lose the deposit, it's more a case of "RedBet not following accepted banking procedure over technical error causes customer's money to be stuck indefinitely in a pending state." Even the resolution wasn't accepted procedure, it was EXCEPTIONAL procedure found only by weeks of customer shooting in the dark trying to hit upon a working solution.

Something also went wrong at the banks end too, because authorisations that are not subsequently claimed are supposed to drop after a few days. Petrol pumps do this all the time, they authorise £99 but take a different charge once you have filled up. Now if all those £99 authorisations didn't drop automatically there would be complaints. Authorisations have this short lifespan before dropping automatically BECAUSE of the probability that technical issues will prevent the first attempt at a transaction from going through, so the banking system needs a way to ensure that the system doesn't seize up with indefinitely pending transactions that need to be cleared manually by the customer contacting the merchant and the bank each time.

The bank also needs to explain why this authorisation was going to sit pending "forever" unless Redbet could be forced to do something, and it was forcing Redbet to produce this written declaration that they would not ever take the charge that finally cleared the pending transaction.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Looking around, it seems this problem is common, and just as common is the buck passing to and fro between merchant and bank with neither wanting to help the customer. ONLY if a fault is identified with how the bank dealt with the matter would a complaint about the bank be upheld. If the problem is held to be with the retailer or their acquirer, then this would be the subject of a separate complaint, possibly one of not being treated fairly.

Above all, it seems it's only a real problem when DEBIT cards are used, because any errors such as this can prevent people from accessing their own money, including paying bills. Use a CREDIT card though, and unless you are running it uncomfortably close to the limit (which you shouldn't routinely be doing), then this type of error will remove a part from the top of your credit limit, and this should not ordinarily cause inconvenience during the time it takes to resolve itself.

Here is an example of someone getting the runaroud between Mothercare and their bank in much the same way as this case, until the matter eventually resolved itself after 7 days.

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One contributor even mentioned the solution:-

Contact mothercare and ask them to fax your bank saying they wont be collecting it along with the payment details and your bank should lift the ringfence on the funds.

However, even with no action being taken, the charge should either be taken or drop after a few days, expressed as "working days", so would not include weekends and bank holidays. For debit cards, this should be around 5 working days, so a calendar week.

Ask the bank for it's policy on "authorisation holds", and for how long such holds are applied where the merchant does not collect the money before they drop automatically. Unless this period was exceeded, then it's probably not really down to the bank, it's Redbet that should have acted, specifically, they should have cancelled the authorisation hold from their end once they had decided they would not be actioning the charge. However, if the time was exceeded, then something else happened that caused the bank to stray from it's usual policy, which might be cause for complaint.

There is something rather worrying though, it seems that consumers have little protection and few rights of immediate redress when such problems occur. Often the problem is made worse by merchants asking the customer to "try again", as this can create duplication of authorisation holds, and even duplicate charges being made. I remember having a rant about MGS banking saying "please try again" when my Neteller deposits were supposedly "declined", only to find that they had been debited, and that by following this advice I had double the mess to clean up when I had TWO declines, but also TWO deposits taken from my Neteller.

I think this is a serious weakness in electronic money transfer systems, and as such, consumers should have more rights in regard to getting something done, and a clear definition of who is to do this rather than the current stalemate where the merchant and bank both blame each other.

In the mean time, it seems that using a credit card affords much more protection as it's not your money stuck in limbo, it's the bank's money (It has agreed to lend you the amount of the purchase, has set it aside, but has not yet actually lent it to you), and unless the charge is subsequently processed, you do not pay a pending charge on your credit card statement, nor is interest charged even if it sits pending "forever".

An alternative is to have a separate account purely for debit card gambling, so that if an error holds some of your gambling budget in limbo, it just prevents the casino industry making that amount from you that week, but has no impact on your non gambling bank account activity, so everything else you do should not be impacted.

If you are panicking because today is 100% bonus day, remember that there will be another coming along, and in many cases it can be predictable.

 

[goatwack]

You have to remember it wasn't me that killed that guy, technically speaking it was the bullet travelling through his eyesocket and lodging itself into his brain. Had the gun not propelled the bullet at such high speed then this wouldn't have happened!

 

[MariusManager]

Issue solved

Good morning gents,

Please let me firstly apologize for the delay in the response. We can assure you that we treat every case very serious and with it's due urgency. However, my colleague Adam was in his in vacation and for some reason i just noticed the thread. Things have been a bit crazy with all our follow-ups after the affiliate conferences, that we must have missed yours. Sorry about that .

Also I would like to say thanks very much to all amazing Casinomeister members for all the support and help showed in this matter – you guys are awesome.

Saladfingers my friend, i am glad to hear that you received the funds back and the issue is solved now. Once again apologies for the inconvenience and please PM me your username, we will ensure that will take very good care of you. Kindly note that from this point onward you should always PM me. This will ensure that all the correspondence is tracked and solved asap.

Thank you all, in anticipation.
Marius

 

[saladfingers]

Hi Marius, thanks for your reply. I will send you a private message.

 

[MariusManager]

Hi Marius, thanks for your reply. I will send you a private message.

Hi saladfingers, great stuff mate! I'm glad you got it sorted.If there is anything we can do to make your playing experience in our platform more joyful please do let me know.
Have a great weekend and thanks everyone!