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Casino Complaint Redbet: 'Losing' my deposit due to a technical error...

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by saladfingers, Jun 27, 2016.

    Jun 27, 2016
  1. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Hope someone can help with this? I've hit a dead end with Redbet's support. To keep it brief:

    a) I'm a long-time Redbet player, never had a problem before. I made a Visa deposit last week which failed to process due to some sort of technical error at their end. But when I checked my bank account, the money had disappeared from my bank balance. My Redbet balance didn't change.

    b) I contacted support via chat but that came to nothing, so I emailed them. I was told it was a technical error, then that they could find no trace of my deposit, then to wait for five days for it to roll back automatically, then, when it was still missing, to send in a bank statement.

    c) I've explained three times to them that my bank statement does not show the transaction because, as the bank told me, the payment is stuck in "pending" status. It won't show on my statement until Redbet find the transaction and cancel it from their end. But they just keep responding by ignoring that and asking for a bank statement again.

    d) Which is why I'm stuck and posting here. My bank say that due to the Visa guarantee they cannot cancel or block or retrieve the payment, so it'll stay "pending". And for as long as it is "pending" it will not show on my statement - and the only people who can do anything about it are Redbet. Redbet just keep asking for a bank statement - so I'm stuck in a loop...

    Any ideas would be appreciated. I've always thought Redbet seemed pretty decent - but this is their technical error, which has left me out of pocket - and they won't do anything about it? :confused:
     
  2. Jun 27, 2016
  3. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I suggest you PM the rep, send a screenshot of your bank, and Redbet needs to get their payment processor involved.

    I think you will find it drops off and will be returned to your account after a certain amount of time if a merchant does not "pick it up". This can be anywhere between 7 and 90 days, depending on your bank and the amount of the deposit

    I've had a couple of instances of this with a credit card deposit.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Jun 27, 2016
  5. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Had this happen a few times throughout my gaming years, or similar situations at least.. apparently it's really hard sometimes to pinpoint exactly where the technical error occurred, or which of the processors involved is really 'at fault' here..

    You could p.m. one of their reps here, i believe Adam would be most suited for this issue:)
    I assume you'll get your deposit back eventually, although i am not yet sure if that will be from Visa or Redbet..
    Last time i had something like this, it took around 3 days for my money to arrive, plus two screenshots of the transaction with number.

    Anyway, they will help you, p.m. Adam, and i think it will be solved as soon as possible:thumbsup:

    Edit: whilst i was typing, Jazzy already typed pretty much the same :p
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Jun 27, 2016
  7. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Hi - thanks to you both for your quick replies, much appreciated. I sent Adam a PM when I posted the complaint, so I hope he will see it and take a look.

    Just to say though that as I set out above, the screenshot from my bank would show nothing. That's why I'm stuck in this loop with their support. The transaction doesn't show on my bank statement, and the bank say it won't until it changes from "Pending" status - which only Redbet can action.

    I'm just really disappointed with their response to all this. They've not taken any responsibility for a loyal player's deposit going missing due to a technical error at their end.

    I've been without this money for seven days now. Am I really supposed to just sit and wait for up to 90 days and hope it reappears? :confused:
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 27, 2016
  9. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    As an update - Redbet have just responded again, and basically absolved themselves of responsibility.

    They have confirmed it was a technical error with their payment provider ("error 202 - Brick acquisition failure, meaning an unlocked brick was not found within the time allotted for locking a brick", whatever that means...)

    But instead of take responsibility for that, they're telling me to phone my bank again. They've basically washed their hands of it.

    I'm left without the money, and a wait of apparently up to 90 days for it to find its way back into my bank balance. No apology, no gesture of compensation, nothing.

    Safe to say I won't be playing at Redbet again, sadly.
     
  10. Jun 27, 2016
  11. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Well I can't say I envy your predicament much. I've had a few deposits at Redbet 'hang' in limbo, even if for a brief moment. Can't remember the exact message displayed, but I knew full well the money had departed from my bank card but not shown up yet. Maybe a minute or two later it would show up, but it didn't stop me bricking it.

    Who knows how I'd have reacted if nothing appeared in my balance but it is an unnecessary delay that indicates that they ought to update their payment processors.

    The blame lies solely with Redbet as far as I can see and I'm very surprised at their negative stance :mad:
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jun 27, 2016
  13. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Something similar.

    Tried to withdraw with my Ecopayz card from an ATM here in Bangkok, done it zillions of times without issues. ATM says card no good, but as i found out later the amount was taken from my account, 10.000 THB. Stupidly i retried twice the same amount with the same result. Total some 800EUR swerving through "banking/processor nirwana". :eek: :rolleyes:

    This happened on 22nd May, today i received the money back. More than 4 weeks they needed to find out what happened.

    What, i am trying to say is that the money will reappear at some point, no doubt, only a matter of weeks rather than days.

    Redbet can't do much as the money never arrived in their accounts, hence your bank will wait until it is returned because it goes unclaimed. This is the max. 90 day period.

    It is clearly NOT Redbet's fault, they only have a record that the transaction was declined, nothing else, hence not much they can do.
     
    4 people like this.
  14. Jun 27, 2016
  15. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks Harry.

    Bottom line is it's awful customer service, though. They've just shrugged it off.

    In short: I make a deposit in good faith, they lose it due to a technical error, and they take no responsibility for me being left out of pocket for weeks/months. They don't even apologise.

    Would a major online shop or any other type of retailer behave the same way?

    I hope, at least, that players who see this thread will be aware of what to expect from Redbet if this happens to them. :mad:
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jun 27, 2016
  17. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    * They did not lose it. Your bank received a request to send the amount you wanted to deposit, checked that there is enough in the account and sent the money on its way, but it never made it to Redbet. That is why you got the declined transaction screen. Your money is stuck somewhere between your bank and the processors, there can be multiple between a merchant and the bank.

    Redbet probably checked as far as they can do from their end and were not able to locate the money/transaction. Hence, it must be somewhere further up in the chain.

    ** Yes, they would do the same. I went into the bank branch next to the ATM and they started an investigation. Ecopayz just took the money from my account although i informed them that it was not paid out but in their records it showed "withdrawn". Only when the bank sent them a message did they credit the wrongly debited amounts back to my account. But they shrugged it off just as you think Redbet has done it.

    I suppose, especially for international transactions nobody really knows how many intermediaries are playing a part to execute it correctly.
     
    3 people like this.
  18. Jun 27, 2016
  19. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Well, I guess if you think that they've handled it well, I can't argue - but they've lost a loyal, long-term player.

    I know it's a casino - but I don't expect to lose my money before I've even had a chance to press 'spin'.

    In future, players should be aware that with Redbet/Whitebet etc, the risk starts from the moment you hit deposit - and if it goes wrong, you're on your own.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Jun 27, 2016
  21. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    What Harry and i more or less said, about processors, means that this is indeed not Redbet's fault persé, and we don't exactly know which sub-processor is responsible for the hiccup, and these are delicate matters, hence they can take up to 90 days..

    However, in my personal experience it has never taken longer then a week. But i also had it happen one time where it concerned my last deposit from my roll, which was a bigger one then my average too..definitely sucked, so i understand it's frustrating, but i would reconsider leaving Redbet for such a matter. After all, you only talked to their Live Chat and general Support through mail (or so i assume) and perhaps they didn't feel you were really inconvenienced, or failed to explain to you it is not their fault, or they can not do much about it.. (or so i assume:p)

    I definitely would wait and see what Adam says, i am sure he would normally make things right with a gesture of good will.
    If all my assumptions are wrong, and it was on their end after all, then i am sure you'll be compensated, but i really think this won't turn out to be the case.

    What i mean is if you leave a Casino for this reason, you may in the near future end up without any Casino to play at, as these things can happen anywhere, anytime really. Of course some support members are more qualified or 'sympathetic' then others, and it differs per Casino, as to what exactly they are allowed to do, when issue's arise. Some can give comps under strict conditions, some have access to back-end player logs and can solve issue's, but most don't.

    You have to look at the bigger picture, and give management a chance to solve this in a manner that resolves any issue you may have with the situation, and remember that it is most likely not their fault at all.

    Hope you get your money back soon..
     
    4 people like this.
  22. Jun 27, 2016
  23. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Sorry, the way I see it is that I make a deposit at Redbet, money leaves my account, nothing shows up. I did my part at their site, this is why their accountable. It's like getting food poisoning at a restaurant, with the restaurant absolving themselves of blame and blaming their supplier.

    It's not my problem as a customer, you've just left me in limbo through no fault of my own. It happened on their site, end of :mad:
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Jun 27, 2016
  25. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    LOL, now you sound like a drama queen :rolleyes: :D food poisining, really? .. LOOOL

    This is the exact reason why Visa/MC and all the others agreed that any unclaimed amounts will go back to the senders account after 90 days. However, in most cases the money is found earlier as it was in my case.

    If the money never arrived at Redbet's processor they simply can't see it. It is only the sending bank and the card company (Visa or MC) who have access to that data, hence the bank should help the OP by launching an investigation to speed things up.

    Happens more often than you think considering there are billions of debit/credit card transactions every day.
     
    2 people like this.
  26. Jun 27, 2016
  27. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    You obviously haven't dined out where I live :cool:

    The bottom line still remains: I don't care. I deposited at your site and now I'm left crossing off the days on my calendar in the hope of getting it back. Not good enough, sorry!
     
    2 people like this.
  28. Jun 27, 2016
  29. incrediblestuff

    incrediblestuff SearchingForTheHolyGrail! CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Currently: Self employed, Previously: Manager
    Location:
    Mostly the Netherlands
    Well, i see your point, and i know a lot of punters may share this opinion, however, it's more complicated, then the restaurant example. In the restaurant example you had some sort of service, in the form of a a bad meal. And a good restaurant would definitely make things right afterwards, even if their supplier, who delivered bad goods, was the cause.

    Imagine you are sure you have money in your account, and you are arriving at a toll booth, near the border, where you have to pay to get to your holiday destination. For whatever reason, you see the message 'successful deposit' on your little pin-screen, yet the processor that is between your bank and the toll booths bank, has a hiccup, and the guy in the booth, only sees , 'transaction unsuccessful' because it never is received: he can't let you pass, so who do you blame? Do you yell at the guy in the booth, and demand passage? You may get shot, depending on the Country you're in :D

    Just saying, that whilst i know it sucks big time, you can't get worked up about Redbet really. It's something that may happen at any time whilst trying to do a digital transaction...

    It's part of the times were living in, sadly.

    @ saladfingers:

    I do believe these sort of issues happen considerably less with a web-wallet like Neteller, or at least seem to be easier to solve, as there's always a transaction number to fall back on.

    Maybe it's an option to start using one of those (if you are able to), to avoid similar occurrences in the future, as much as possible.
     
    4 people like this.
  30. Jun 27, 2016
  31. Harry_BKK

    Harry_BKK Senior Member CAG mm1

    Occupation:
    job is OK
    Location:
    Balcony
    Must visit you then to try your fine dining establishments :D

    OK, one more time why Redbet can't do much:

    - player hits the SUBMIT button on the banking page
    - Redbet getting the deposit request and forwards it to the right processor
    - processor gets the data packet and sends it to Visa/MC
    - they receive it, check that it is indeed one of their card numbers and forward it to the issuing bank server
    - bank receives the request, checks the account has enough credit and OK's the transaction
    - data packet makes its way back to Redbet's processor but never gets there
    - standard is that the processor will try 3 times to receive the data packet before issuing the declined message
    - Redbet receives the message that the transaction was declined and displays that on the screen

    That's it, not to mention all the sub-processors that can and are used by the banks/card companies/processors, especially with international transactions.

    So what can Redbet see:

    - data packet for transaction request sent to processor and "received" confirmation from the processor
    - declined message from processor

    What can the processor see:

    - data packet received from Redbet
    - data packet submitted for approval and confirmation that it was received
    - approval not received in a time frame, then approval request repeated 3 times
    - no answer, processor declines transaction and sends the result to Redbet

    Hence, the merchant just has no way of investigating that much.
     
    3 people like this.
  32. Jun 27, 2016
  33. goatwack

    goatwack Denny, two is great, but three is a crowd CAG

    Occupation:
    Stuntman
    Location:
    Londonia
    Alright man, I got it first time, thankyou! I love you an' all, I just don't have to agree with you on this point you patronizing bastard, I mean honey bun :cool:
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 27, 2016
  35. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    This is pretty much how I feel. I do understand all the explanations, and thanks for them, but the bottom line is the I have paid for a service I didn't get - and I'm being made to wait potentially *three months* for my money back.

    I just can't imagine any other industry shrugging that off with quite so much indifference.
     
    2 people like this.
  36. Jun 27, 2016
  37. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    It's not just Redbet though. It can happen anywere. Some data transmission fails along the line somewhere.

    Part just depends where the failure lies.

    It was not the first time I had an issue, but the first was solved after a weekend elapsed. But the casino payments teamed worked with their processor and my card processor, a few emails were needed and with my time zone difference, it took 11 days, instead of the 14 days it would have naturally been resolved.

    It took a lot of man hours for the casino to help me this way.

    It was ultimately down to the payment processor.

    If your payment was less than $25, I would expect you'd see it back in a week. $100 might be two weeks, and over that expect up to 90 days. Not just based on my experience, but over years reading here.

    If you've been happy enough with Redbet all these years, I would not leave over a single instance.

    It was never my intention to be patronizing, and I realize that the same was said before I hit the enter key.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
    1 person likes this.
  38. Jun 28, 2016
  39. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for the reply. I get how it happened - but I'm sorry, I still can't see why I'm supposed to just shrug it off, and cut the casino some slack...

    Again, I'm a long-term customer who made a purchase, got nothing in return and lost access to the money as a result of a technical error experienced while on their site. It's their payment process which failed, not mine.

    I'm just amazed by their indifference. No apology, just some abrupt emails - and still no contact from the rep here.

    imagine if it happened while making a purchase at Amazon, for instance - or any online retailer with a reputation it wanted to protect and customers it wanted to keep...

    Anyway, I've made my point I guess. I'll now just have to wait up to three months for my money back.

    Hope this will all serve as a useful warning to anyone else who uses Redbet/Whitebet.
     
    1 person likes this.

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