Problems at Betroyal.com?

[The Dude]

In case you don't read the news, this was posted today in Casinomeister's News section:
https://www.casinomeister.com/static/news/april2005.html

ROUGH STUFF IN COSTA RICA
15 April 2005

Police intervene in Royal Sports incident

Royal Sports.com has been the subject of caution flags at several watchdog sites this year after reports of payout difficulties, but this week the issue escalated to alarming proportions with allegations of attempted intimidation of a well known and respected watchdog site owner, John Walker and three of his Sports Book Review.com (SBR) staffers.

Bill Dozer and colleagues at Sportsbook Review.com (SBR) had earlier downgraded his rating for Royal Sports to a dismal D+ and has been monitoring complaints about the payment and promo activities of Royal Sports for some months.

Among issues SBR has studied is a restructuring project in an attempt to fix business weaknesses, and a case in a Dutch court in which an American player is alleging misconduct over a $50 000 claim which could now be heard in Costa Rica, where Royal Sports recently relocated from Curacao. Another case involving over $16 000 owed to an affiliate was also reported.

The intimidation took place in Costa Rica, where Dozer was visiting his staff and went unannounced to the offices of Royal Sports on the same floor of the Oficentro Building as Virtual Casino.

The VC owner is alleged to be the owner of Royal Sports, according to Roberto Castiglioni, a senior executive who was previously the CEO of the site and who now runs a watchdog operation. This has been confirmed by Royal's current management.

Apparently he has denied ownership and asked for the chance to make a statement to this effect but then did not do so. Royal has not denied that the guy is involved and current Royal management has not made a statement, but it is known that he is the majority, if not sole, owner from information supplied by the former CEO..

Dozer was denied access to the Royal office, and the fireworks started when he and his companions went to a local restaurant and found their car blocked in by a large vehicle and some scary, gun-toting heavies.

Fortunately, someone sounded the alarm and these thugs were arrested without further incident by heavily armed Costa Rican police. The SBR report says, "SBR appreciates the remarkable response time and overwhelming force employed by Costa Rican police."

Royal Sports has apparently now declined to issue a *corrective* statement as promised, leaving little doubt that the original report by SBR was correct and Virtual Casino is involved in Royal Sports.

The SBR report goes on to say that, "Tactics of intimidation threaten the industry and give critics of gaming in Costa Rica fuel for their argument that gaming attracts thugs, organized crime and other undesirables."

When InfoPowa went to press it was not clear what had happened to the thugs arrested in this incident, and Dozer declined to comment any further than the information he had posted on his site saying, "SBR has made the decision not to speak about the incident in detail. We still have employees in Costa Rica and must consider their safety. This is a matter we are now leaving to the authorities."

This is total bullshit. Bullshit implicating not a false statement, but a totally unacceptable situation.

I'm bringing this to the forefront of issues this week because this is exactly why caution needs to exercised when dealing with these types of businesses. If this incident is true (which I believe it is - I've spoken with some of these people myself), then Virtual Casino needs to step up to the plate and explain what their exact relationship is with Betroyal.

Are they related by ownership? Operations and management? Some or all?

In the meantime, I will be making my own assessment dealing with the information that I have at hand.

VirtualTed, this is not a personal jibe - you are a member of this forum - but you are now in the hot seat to answer a few questions. You are also free to invite any Betroyal reps to join in the conversation as well.

Bill Dozer is also a member of this forum, but I am not going to ask him to jump into this thread for the same reasons given in the infopowa report. It's strictly up to him.

I should also note that I am aware of similar incidences - it's not like current or ex-employees don't give me the heads up sometimes on what's going on behind closed doors - but I take everything I hear with a grain of salt.

I would like to keep this thread as civil as possible - I know there are a number of "Virtual" haters out there - ready to grab the pitchforks and torches. This is not your opportunity to start a slam fest. This thread's purpose is to produce information that may or may not have a serious effect on Costa Rican operations. And I expect it to be done in responsible manner.

Beside Vteds interjection here, I'm hoping that some of our Costa Rican forum members can produce any police reports that might be published in the CR press. This will provide a bit of insight at well.

 

[lanidar]

VirtualTed, this is not a personal jibe - you are a member of this forum - but you are now in the hot seat to answer a few questions.

I just can't wait, as I'm sure MANY others are to read his response to this incident.

I would like to keep this thread as civil as possible - I know there are a number of "Virtual" haters out there - ready to grab the pitchforks and torches. This is not your opportunity to start a slam fest.This thread's purpose is to produce information that may or may not have a serious effect on Costa Rican operations. And I expect it to be done in responsible manner.

I know that I may be right up on TOP as a "Virtual hater" and I will respect your wishes.
So, no "pitchforks and torches". I'm taking a sit back and wait until Virtual Ted replies.
But, just keep in the back of your mind that we I have been warning players, for months, that The Virtual Group is not what Virtual Ted makes them out to be.

Also, any sceptics that were unsure that Virtual deleted Insomniacs Lounge ... think about it again.

 

[orangeindiana]

La Nacion, a large Costa Rican newspaper, has yet to report on the incident. I'll keep an eye on it and post anything I notice.

 

[jetset]

Who knows what goes on in that area, which as far as online casino gambling is concerned certainly has acquired an awful reputation for hosting way too many rogues and villains.

I, too was surprised to learn from my contacts that this shocking incident had not received local press coverage - I would be particularly interested to find out what happened to these thugs who hit on the SBR crew.

 

[jinnia]

As of 4 days ago, the SBR staff did not want to talk.
I'm waiting to hear more on this.

 

[GemG7]

So what more needs to happen before Virtual is put on your rogue list Bryan?

 

[dominique]

I, too was surprised to learn from my contacts that this shocking incident had not received local press coverage - I would be particularly interested to find out what happened to these thugs who hit on the SBR crew.

I find this very odd also. When I was in Costa Rica last year, one thing that struck me about the country is that all police actions were reported prominently and repeatedly on television. Arrests, interrogations even, were shown over and over.

Since most of the residences have tall wrought iron fences surrounding their properties to discourage break ins, I assumed this was a policy to warn would be criminals off. A way to "take a bite out of crime". Many stores had heavily armed private guards at their front doors. Crime is definitely a main focus in San Jose, Costa Rica, and television is very eager to show reports of arrests, especially with people being handcuffed and treated roughly.

The fact that such a serious arrest was not covered by the media is very odd indeed.

 

[mary]

I'm not surprised if it isn't covered.

Burglers don't contirbute to the local economy. Sportsbooks do.

When a casino roughs up a card counter in Vegas, that doesn't make the news.

Costa Rica is already in conflict with US legal authorities over hosting so many sportsbooks and extracting money from the US economy. It's in the interest of their powers that be to have such matters taken care of quietly.

 

[m249a]

Glad to see Bryan and jetset dragging this out into the spotlight....Good job gentlemen let's see what they have to say. As an afterthough will you be placing virtual back on the rouge list if this issue is proven to be fact?

 

[jonevegas]

I received a promo email from Bet Royal and am sure they are linked, I have never seen a Plytech promo limiting the cashout, the terms were deposit $25 and receive a 300% bonus, 20x playthrough, 30x any variation of BJ or VP, 10x deposit max cashout. Sound familiar???

 

[jetset]

One of my contacts in CR says that this is not so surprising....if the complainants (SBR) did not press charges. I've queried this with SBR.

 

[unicorn40]

Well Ted???

Bryan posted:

VirtualTed, this is not a personal jibe - you are a member of this forum - but you are now in the hot seat to answer a few questions.

The silence is deafening...

 

[winbig]

Bryan posted:


The silence is deafening...

Yep, considering he was just on today.

 

[The Dude]

Ted was in contact with me on Friday - stating he needed to get some clarification before making any statements. The General Manager of Virtual tried calling me during the weekend and left a message for me to contact him as well.

So far, no one has offered an explanation about this situation. No one is admitting anything, but no one is denying anything either. I'd have to agree with Mary's statement that if this did happen, it would probably not be reported in the CR papers. And if no has filed any charges, then in a legal sense - no crime was committed.

None of this ever happened....

 

[m249a]

No body........no murder

 

[The Dude]

Renamed the thread to remove "Thuglike" activity. Spoke with the general manager of Virtual to clear some things up. Again, like most cases like this - there is a lot of background activity going on to include a screw-up or two. I'm anticipating a statement on Betroyal as well.

In a nutshell, I couldn't care less if Betroyal and Virtual share are owned by the same people; this is not the issue. What I find alarming is the use of intimidation to win friends and influence people. But I am not convinced that we have heard the full story yet. Again, there is a bit more than meets the eye.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Just read this - great news for me, Bet Royal Casino have owed me $16K for over a month now and have stopped responding to my emails

 

[jetset]

SBR has responded to our queries and says that the local police were definitely called in and took the thugs away. SBR was simply glad to escape this frightening incident unmolested and did not hang around to press charges.

 

[schankwart]

Dirk my friend... Not only you are waiting for a bigger payment...

I will not go into details at this point though as I am hoping to have this resolved soon.

 

[caruso]

They appear to be suffering from...ahem..."deposit anxiety".

FTR, in my considered opinion depositing $20,000 here might not be too good an idea right now, LOL.

 

[thesmiler]

They appear to be suffering from...ahem..."deposit anxiety".

FTR, in my considered opinion depositing $20,000 here might not be too good an idea right now, LOL.

I received this from another casino some days ago:

Make a $5000 deposit or more and get a 50% match deposit bonus up to $100,000.
Redeem Coupon Code: XXXXXXXXXX
to get your bonus instantly credited to your account + 100% Insurance Bonus

That's what I would call "deposit anxiety"...

 

[caruso]

"100% Insurance Bonus"

Virtual?

 

[lanidar]

Ted was in contact with me on Friday - stating he needed to get some clarification before making any statements. The General Manager of Virtual tried calling me during the weekend and left a message for me to contact him as well.

Has any further contact been made?

 

[caruso]

In a nutshell, I couldn't care less if Betroyal and Virtual share are owned by the same people; this is not the issue.

I disagree Bryan, and I entirely support what you said at the start of the thread about Virtual in the "hot seat" to come clean.

If Betroyal are running around Costa Rica wielding baseball bats at the kneecaps of gambling journalists, and if those SAME people may be behind a casino which is currently on your "probabtion" list after years in the shit-pit, then I think it is CRUCIAL to establish the facts of the association one way or another. That the "Virtual" casino happens to be a separate software entity to the sportsbook is neither here nor there. If I buy apples from a greengrocer who wields a knife in face, I'm hardly going to go back to his establishment on the basis that I want to buy oranges.

 

[thesmiler]

"100% Insurance Bonus"

Virtual?

No, not Virtual, not Cirrus either, but another of these Costa Rican RTGs.

 

[jetset]

On this occasion I have to agree with Caruso - this sort of gangster style conduct is just not acceptable no matter how you look at it.

From various sources I gather that the proof of Virtual Casino's involvement with Royal Sports is pretty certain. For example, the former CEO of the book, has apparently revealed that the takeover deal was with VC's operator, and is also carrying the story on his site.

The fact that VC's operator has not taken advantage of SBR's offer to facilitate a public statement denying ownership is something to consider, too.

The full details over at the SBR site make very interesting and well documented reading i.m.o.

 

[The Dude]

Like I mentioned earlier in this thread - Virtual's General manager spoke with me over the phone explaining their side. Fine and frigging dandy - now I'm in a situation where nobody is making any statements to defend themselves. Betroyal is not making statements, Virtual won't say anything, SBR isn't saying anything - I'm the one standing here holding the ball.

So be it. Here's the deal: if no one wishes to explain exactly what happened, then I'll just take the information which is publicly at hand and go from there. Fair? Yeah, I think so. You can't expect me to sit on my hands waiting for "explanations". If you can't take care of your housecleaning, don't expect me to do it for you.

 

[schankwart]

My situation here is dramatizing.
Ohoh, I see some Cirrus clouds coming......

 

[schankwart]

I just did some research and found... THIS:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Look in the right field and you will see what Casinos are run under the same affiliate-programm there!

I am not calling my case a dispute yet but will... If they keep failing to pay me soon. They have already sent me a first installment of $2000 a couple weeks ago but no more afterwards.

 

[The Dude]

I just did some research and found... THIS:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Look in the right field and you will see what Casinos are run under the same affiliate-programm there!

I am not calling my case a dispute yet but will... If they keep failing to pay me soon. They have already sent me a first installment of $2000 a couple weeks ago but no more afterwards.

Please do not derail this thread - this has nothing to do with Gambling Wages nor Cirrus.

And no more Cirrus rants please. This message board is not your tool for coercion.

 

[schankwart]

Well Bryan, Bet Royal Casino ows me an amount of over US$10.000 and keeps delaying this payment after sending me a first installment of $2k a couple weeks ago. They are not the independent organisation that they pretend to be.
I mentioned Cirrus because I (as well as many others) strongly believe that they are the same as Virtual & Co once you look around a few corners. Pretty much anyone here is aware of my problem with them and I did not know that Bet Royal belonged to this group as well before playing there. I am not intending to discuss Cirrus here but Bet Royal, who have treated and paid me fine before and I just hope that they will do so this time again eventually.
Why is that "coercion"?

 

[m249a]

Just thought I would bump this up on top again, since it is monday and hopefuly the weekend allowed all involved parties to come up with a statement. The silence thus far is quite deafening.

 

[lanidar]

Just thought I would bump this up on top again, since it is monday and hopefuly the weekend allowed all involved parties to come up with a statement. The silence thus far is quite deafening.

The parties involved are probably just waiting for the dust to settle and then sweep it under the rug ... just as if it never happened.
I'm also am hoping that something will be brought out into the light...soon.

 

[The Dude]

I've been in contact with all parties and for the time being, they are working this situation out amongst themselves - making public comments on this for now may jeopardize their negotiations. When they feel it is appropriate to make any public statements, I'm sure that they will.

 

[schankwart]

After asking some influencial person for help a couple days ago there has been made progress with my withdrawal, and I am having my hopes up to see it all resolved soon.

 

[The Dude]

After asking some influencial person for help a couple days ago there has been made progress with my withdrawal as well and I am having my hopes up to see it all solved soon.

Jeesus! No offense - but you're a walking problem child. Someone should confiscate your computer and commit an act of defenestration with it. Have you ever NOT had a problem at ANY casino??

 

[mary]

Jeesus! No offense - but you're a walking problem child. Someone should confiscate your computer and commit an act of defenestration with it. Have you ever NOT had a problem at ANY casino??

Careful! You're talking about one of the men I love!

 

[The Dude]

Careful! You're talking about one of the men I love!

Oops

 

[schankwart]

Mary is kind. =)
Yes Bryan... A good number Casinos out there appreciate my play a lot as they know I am legit. I have tried to explain in a previous post why I *think* this problem has come up at all. However, right now all appears to be in order.

 

[lanidar]

I've been in contact with all parties and for the time being, they are working this situation out amongst themselves - making public comments on this for now may jeopardize their negotiations. When they feel it is appropriate to make any public statements, I'm sure that they will.

I notice Teddy Boy aka Virtual Ted is back but not saying anything regarding this situation.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/game-logs-rtg.8127/?t=8127​

Expired Image ​

 

[lanidar]

Moving on...remember the fiasco a couple of weeks ago that concerned a confrontation between Betroyal's security boys and the guys from Sports Book Review? Well, it's pretty much died out since no one feels like talking about this publicly. And no one seems to care anyway. I've been in contact with all groups involved and it seems as though they are handling this unfortunate turn of events on their own.

My post on April 5th:

The parties involved are probably just waiting for the dust to settle and then sweep it under the rug ... just as if it never happened.
I'm also am hoping that something will be brought out into the light...soon.

I ,for one care, Bryan. And by my count there are at least a dozen others here that are waiting for a reply from a representative.

This WILL happen again. And, next time someone will be seriously hurt.
I feel that this should be dug into deeper and no one can do it better than you.

 

[The Dude]

Each and every party involved is a member of this message board - and they have all the room in the world to explain whatever they want to explain. I for one will not do their explaining for them - that's not my job - I refuse to act as their PR rep, customer service rep, whatever.

Perhaps they have better things to do than to lurk the boards

VTed was briefly in the hotseat until the general manager contacted me and gave me their side of the story which was posted. Currently VTed is not in Virtual�s offices so he hadn�t a clue on what was going on. The CEO of Betroyal also contacted me and said they were negotiating with SBR and they didn't want to jepordize this with a public statement. That was posted as well. I spoke with Bill Dozer over the phone when this thing first came to light, and he told me not much more than what was posted at his website.

My conclusion is that this was an act of overly motivated security guards. If Bill D., SBR, or Betroyal want to enlighten us if there was anything more to this matter - that's their prerogative. But for now....

 

[lanidar]

I for one will not do their explaining for them - that's not my job - I refuse to act as their PR rep, customer service rep, whatever.

I didn't expect you to do any explaining for them.
Since you have one of the most powerful sites I thought that you'd look into this deeper and try to help get to the bottom of this.

Perhaps they have better things to do than to lurk the boards

Virtual Ted is just about always lurking on the boards. Except when something tragic, like this goes on, then he gets muzzled by the hierarchy.

Currently VTed is not in Virtual’s offices so he hadn't a clue on what was going on.

I don't believe that for a second. He's getting paid big bucks ... not to be a dummy, I'm sure.

The CEO of Betroyal also contacted me and said they were negotiating with SBR and they didn't want to jeopardize this with a public statement.

Negotiating? They probably have the folks from SBR tied up in a back room somewhere.

My conclusion is that this was an act of overly motivated security guards.

Some one had to send these "overly motivated" to set SBR straight. They didn't do this on they're own. They were told what to do and how to do it.

If Bill D., SBR, or Betroyal want to enlighten us if there was anything more to this matter - that's their prerogative. But for now....

To repeat myself ... I believe this is a situation where as the longer time goes by the easier it will be for people to forget about it and just let it pass.
This is my opinion.

 

[m249a]

Well lets try to keep this up in the spotlight one more time

BUMP........maybe there is somebody somewhere out there willing to comment on this.

 

[The Dude]

Bumping won't do much good since the three parties are dealing with this on their own - and apparently no one at SBR feels strongly enough to pursue this. If there had been a serious wrongdoing, then SBR had a number of ways to deal with this - one of which is a legal approach. But as far as I can tell it's more or less over.

Each party has had an ample opportunity to deal with this however they felt necessary. It's in the public eye and in a public record since the information is archived here. I've done my job. The only thing I haven't done is fly out to CR and talk to the security guys myself, but then I would probably end up in some ditch in the jungle

And in defense of VTed not being in the offices - well his IP doesn't lie - he wasn't in the country during this period of time unless he has a transformer beam.

To repeat myself ... I believe this is a situation where as the longer time goes by the easier it will be for people to forget about it and just let it pass

This might give you some insight on what the majority of players feel is important. Compare this to what happened at Captain Cooks and the ICL fiasco

 

[caruso]

This might give you some insight on what the majority of players feel is important.

Sod 'em, then.

If Bet Royal are pointing guns at journalists, that says just a little bit about the level of integrity of the Bet Royal management, lol. I doubt the heavies acted on their own inititive. In fact, I doubt the Bet Royal heavies could spell "initiative", let alone use it.

If Virtual are owned by the same people, this says exactly the same for the level of integrity at Virtual. Ted's lack of comment, whatever his whereabouts when this thread was posted, answers that question: if they were unconnected, he would say so. Clearly, they're connected.

And Virtual are on the Casinomeister "probabtion" list for good conduct, past problems notwithstanding. These matters are therefore relevant. The fact that SBR have been backed off doesn't change that.