PokerStars

[Nazareth]

Don't give up- just give it a try at poker room so that you understand what I'm talking about instead of conjecturing about somethign you aren't experiencing.

 

[chalupa]

Nazareth, if you have the time and are so inclined, try a much larger sample size, play every hand identically, and keep careful win loss records.

For example, play a seat for 50 hands, check/call everything to the river, and record your wins/losses. Then move to the next seat and repeat.

After you've done all 10 seats, repeat the whole cycle... say 20 times so you have 1000 samples for each hand.

That's still a relatively small sample and still not a perfect sampling method (because you opponents don't remain the same).

But I'll bet you $1000 fake money that you don't see a statistically significant difference.

 

[chalupa]

PS -- I just can't see how "hot seats" as you describe could be due to an accidentally faulty random number generator, it would have to be deliberately rigged.

And if the site was nefariously rigging their cards... surely they would be smart enough to not invoke it on the play money site where someone could deduce that fact for free.

I do disagree with a previous poster that a site would have NO reason to rig the cards (because it would be to their advantage to let bad players win more often, keeping them alive while good players continued to deposit and go after the bad players and the rake generation continues). But I can't see any reason why they would rig it to make "hot seats".

There IS something of a hot-seat phenomenon in a fair game, but it is due to psychological effects. Often when a player wins a couple of hands in a row he feels confident and lucky, which can lead him to play more hands than he should and stay in longer than he should. And of course the longer he stays in a hand, the more likely he is to win another pot.

You could rule out the psychological factor in your experiment by recording only your own wins/losses, and by playing each hand identically (i.e. to the river, baby!)

 

[Freudian]

I do disagree with a previous poster that a site would have NO reason to rig the cards (because it would be to their advantage to let bad players win more often, keeping them alive while good players continued to deposit and go after the bad players and the rake generation continues). But I can't see any reason why they would rig it to make "hot seats".

And since the good players are more mathematically gifted they would start wondering why results are so odd at that specific pokerroom and start going through hand histories. They would find out it was rigged and the story would break. After the story breaks the poker room goes down.

Like I said, there is no reason a poker room would want to rig their games. They make more money in the long run by dealing a fair game.

 

[chalupa]

And since the good players are more mathematically gifted they would start wondering why results are so odd at that specific pokerroom and start going through hand histories. They would find out it was rigged and the story would break.

Because of the nature of poker, played vs multiple changing players who can take multiple actions... I think a cleverly rigged site would be VERY difficult to prove from the outside.

Contrast this to a casino blackjack game, for example, where results can be compared to a mathematically exact model.

Like I said, there is no reason a poker room would want to rig their games. They make more money in the long run by dealing a fair game.

And casinos would make more money in the long run bt not screwing players out of withdrawals over technicalities, but that still happens too. Greed is powerful.

I would not be surprised that we eventually see a declining online poker room busted for some shenanigans, either something like I described or even more direct theft by shill players who work for the poker room.

I would also not be surprised that we see a poker room with simply a flawed random number generator (hell, the rest of some site's software certainly has plenty of flaws! )

 

[Nazareth]

Chalupa, I did that last night- I stayed right in the same seat and kept track of 130 hands- I didn't play the hands that I knew I would lose & I also folded the first time I was dealt sucker cards and sure enough, the next couple of hands were all sucker cards - so I didn't play those either & just recoreded who won- As I told the other fella- you wouldn't have wanted to be the old lady, the woman in jogging suit, or the woman in the blue dress- I was the guy in the tux & here is how the hands played out:

S=Suspender man
T=Tux man
W=white shirt man
R=Red dress girl
BD=Blue dress girl
O=Old lady
B=Afro american man
C=Cigar guy]
H=Guy with the hat
J=Woman in jogging suit.

T, H, T, H, C, W, B, W, BD, B, S, B, B, B, H, W, H, T, W, H, T, W, S, S, T, T, H, W, W, B, C, C, J, J, B, J, C, T,W, S, C, C, BD, S, B/W, H, H, BD, T, H, C, C, R, J, T, B, O, H, H, O, W, W,, B, H, T, T, R, T, T, O, T/C, W, O, B, S, H, W/T, W, O, B, B, C, C, C, C, J, H, C, T, T/W, T, H, T, T, R, O, T, B, S, T, S, J, T, S, H, R, B, O, T, R, T, C, C, R, H, - - - (I broke for a cigarrette here), J, T, T, T, J, T, B, W, H, C, B, W, BD, H, H, H, C, W, T, S, W, BD, R, B .....

Tux guy was hot last night & fortunately I chose his seat to do this experiment from & started the experiment with $12,400 and ended up with $19,454 for the evening- I played every flop & most turns & maybe 1/2 of the rivers- NOT good poker by any means and yet still managed to do well? I didn't count the number of straights that were thrown at us & I should have because any straight possibility is like an aphrodesiac to players- the betting goes wild- even if they have no chance- Everyone bets right to the river- So, in order to even stay in the game- You're having to bet $40-$80 every turn and river hand that shows a straight.

In the chart above- you can clearly see certain seats going hot for a little bit, then cooling off or even going stone cold, then getting hot again. During the T's off time- I woulda joined another room and probably gone with The Cigar Guy until I saw the Tux guy hitting again- However- I stuck around i nthe same room just for this experiment.

You watch in your poker rooms and tell me if you see people going consistantly going on streaks like I listed above- I also played poker stars last night and no way did I see the same thing- The winners were all over the board and spread out- none of this hit 4 times in a row, miss two- and then hit again 3-4 times- then cool off for a little bit- then repeat. Everyone on the table at pokerstars was winning hands- and the rouhnds were just as loose and fast- if a raise went up, by the time it got around to you, you were habing to call $80 just to play- which I did when I had strong hand- I played for 2 hours and only made $300 - I played for three hours on pokerroom yesterday, and made $7000?.

My gosh- I'm getting to the point on pokerstars that I can almost sense when a 'run' is going to happen

You pick up a 8h,3s on the draw? Don't fold em on pokerroom because there's a good chance you could win- Try that in any other poker site & see how far it gets you- I won a couple of times with 1 pair in poker room- a low pair at that.

 

[Macgyver]

My gosh- I'm getting to the point on pokerstars that I can almost sense when a 'run' is going to happen

If that's the case, deposit some real money and have a ball raking in your profits (pun intended).

 

[winbig]

In the chart above- you can clearly see certain seats going hot for a little bit, then cooling off or even going stone cold, then getting hot again. During the T's off time- I woulda joined another room and probably gone with The Cigar Guy until I saw the Tux guy hitting again- However- I stuck around i nthe same room just for this experiment.

There is no pattern in the findings you posted. 130 hands is hardly a good amount for a sample either.

You also mentioned that betting always went to the river...well in real $ games this never happens. You won't see 100% of the players in the hand go to the river.

In poker it also doesn't matter what your cards are as long as you know how to play them. You could be playing 72os, but with the right bets at the right time depending on what's on the board and how many players are still in and where the button is, you'd still have a decent chance of winning that hand.

 

[Mugwump]

Last try....

Pokerroom.com publishes statistics on all hands dealt. You can view them at:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
(these are updated daily)

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
(a historical sample of 500,000 hands)

Naz, I really wish you'd start playing for money. Let me know where and what your user name is.

 

[winbig]

Pokerroom.com publishes statistics on all hands dealt. You can view them at:

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
(these are updated daily)

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)
(a historical sample of 500,000 hands)

Naz, I really wish you'd start playing for money. Let me know where and what your user name is.

Nice URL. That just proves my point about how many hands never went to the river (33.4% in this case.)

 

[Nazareth]

Win big- no pattern huh? How many times have you gone on 'streaks' where you play? What I posted IS typical of EVERY time I play there- what I posted is representative of every time I play- Can you- in three hours- turn $12 into $19 or $12,000 into $19,000? Please explain to me why I'm not seeing 'streaks' like that on pokerstars?

Yes, 130 hands doesn't mean much in and of itself- But I'm telling you fact- If I posted the hands for 5 days straight- You WILL see pretty much the same thing over and over and over again- I know- because I've been playing there every day- you haven't. I'm telling you what I'm observing, & You're telling me I'm not seeing this? Check it out youreself- don't beleive me, go and see for yourself.- observe which seat isn't hitting, and then move to another room and take that seat & good luck trying to hit anything that night. You'll need it. Bet you woulda wanted to be the Tux guy in that list I provided- Well guess what? I'm getting the seats every day that hit- it takes a little work, but when I do find them, I do very weel so far. This has gone on too long to be simply a 'streak'

You also mentioned that betting always went to the river...well in real $ games this never happens. You won't see 100% of the players in the hand go to the river.

You're not understanding something here- We're NOT talking about money games- We're talking about patterns in free money games- I'm NOT commenting on the games played for real money- simply on what I've been observing in the free money games- Simply on the fact that certain players go through 'streaks' often enough that it isn't simply a lucky run which every card room will experience- however- NOT to this extent

Macgyver- I'd love to lol- but I'm sure the real money games aren't the same- I'd love to find out though for sure

Mugwump- 67% DID go to the river- Betting heavy- That's a sigfnificant number. Don't forget- of that 67% you'll often see 8 out of ten betting to the river in a hand. Aghain though- this isn't about the differences between real and fake money games- this conversation is about what I've seen as patterns or 'streaks' & about being dealt winning cards consistantly IF you're in the right seat

My user name is Stonned- I'm on us\ually every night- I start playing at about 9:00 p.m eastern - I play the 25/50 rooms mostly- I think there is a way to get personal hand hgistories from poker room- I'll see if I can find out how & post it here tonight- I'm telling you- I'm not that good a poker player (as attested by the fact that I don't do as well on pokerstars) & yet I'm whooping up on pokerroom? Yes, I'm playing bad players- BUT I'm also playing bad players at pokerstars- it's very easy to sucker them into raising when you flop the flush- same as in pokerroom- yet I don't do as well in pokerstars becasue noone is consistantly being deal winning cards- there is no patterns in pokerstars from what I've seen yet. Noone is going on 4-6 winning hand streaks- then hitting several more soon after.

 

[Mugwump]

Another relevant url

Outdated URL (Invalid)

and some relevant commentary:

Link Removed (invalid URL)

and a third, along the same lines...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

All I can say is...

Nazereth, you should NEVER play for real money, at poker or any other casino game. Your absolute refusal to accept the advice of others based upon their collective experience and knowledge implies to me that you could get into real trouble really fast.

You said earlier that you were on disability and judging from what you've written so far, I can take an educated guess as to what its for, and its another reason why you should avoid casinos and gambling.

 

[Nazareth]

Let's see if htis works- I'll post thel ink to my hand history- I went in- observed for awhile & thought the old lady was going to be the winner- The only seat open was the White Shirt guy- so I sat down and played tight for a couple of rounds- however, the old lady soon fizzled & the white shirt started winning & kept winning- The Jogger suit woman didn't win- nor did blue dress or Afro American guy or Cigar guy. I bet all hands practically, even when given poopy cards-- Went from $19,454 to $25,400 in an hour and a half.

The wins went like so (And again- yes this is a small representative- but it IS very typical) I was the W guy

O,O,O,R,B,J,W,W,B,C,O,W,W,R,W,C,B,C,C,W,W,R,BD,W,T,R,W,BD,B,H,W,S,W,O,----(sat out),J,J,W,H,W-H,B,T,J,W,T,H,R

People were getting pissed at me and leaving

Here is the link to check it out- up top you,'ll see "Next' Click that & it will take you through the hands- (Have a good laugh at my aweful betting lol)

Link Removed ( Old/Invalid)

Mugwump- If you think this is simply superstition- then I challenge you to sign up and give it a try yourself- If you'll not do that- then you can't comment on what I'm talking about except for to give uninformed opinion.

Again, please answer me this- Do you play and have people consistantly winning like the examples I've given? No- You don't- You would however IF you cared to play in pokerroom. Aint no superstion about it man- it's pattern plain and simple.

Whoops- Edit- you'll need to click "Previous" I listed that last hand played by mistake

 

[winbig]

10 hands out of 46...consistant? not. 22% (rounded from 21.7xxxx) is hardly consistant.

Again, why is this even an issue if you're not going to try it out on the real $ tables? Play money is just that...play.

 

[Mugwump]

Mugwump- If you think this is simply superstition- then I challenge you to sign up and give it a try yourself- If you'll not do that- then you can't comment on what I'm talking about except for to give uninformed opinion.

Trust me, Naz, I've been on amazing rushes, and I've seen some amazing rushes. However, you cannot predict a rush, you can only identify it after its happened.

I do play at pokerroom, though not in the past couple of months. I play their tournaments, 1/2 and 2/4, and occasionally their .50/1 NL tables. (all real money). It has been the most profitable poker room that I've visted. I don't play there often anymore because I had a nasty tendency to lose my winnings there on their blackjack and video poker machines. I avoid mixing my poker and casino deposits any more. If I get a cell phone in the near future, though, I'll start using them again. What could be better than being able to play poker no matter where you are?

PS: The link to hand history that you provided will only work for you and the others in the hand. Pokerroom does not allow people who were not in the hand to view hand history.

PPS to Winbig: MEATWAD ROCKS!!!! ATHF RULEZ

 

[Nazareth]

10 hands out of 46...consistant? not. 22% (rounded from 21.7xxxx) is hardly consistant.

Again, why is this even an issue if you're not going to try it out on the real $ tables? Play money is just that...play.

You wouldn't like 1/4 wins? I know I sure would- anytime- This is consistant man- I'f you'll note that in that list there were seats that got nothing- whilke the majority of wins were by certain seats- this happens everytime I go on- Far too often to be 'luck' or 'rushes'- it's been happening for nearly a month now- You pick the right seat and you will, As I have done- do very well. Try hitting 1/4 weins at any other site.

Ah, didn't know about the link- I spose I could post em here- but it'd take up three pages. I could post just the win/loss info in succession if you're interested- basically just wanted to back up what I've been saying here.

I'll go on again tonight and do the same- same thing will happen- Can you sit in a room and say with pretty much certainty that such and such a seat weill win 4-5-6 in a row? I know I can with regularity & be right often because that is how the hands are playing out in pokerroom. It's getting so bad, that if I am the one winning, and I need a 5 card, I can almost say with certainty that it will come on the river- I can't tell you how manyu times I've sat here & said to myself "5 card comming up" & had it come up.

 

[Nazareth]

First and last rounds I played in that room: Neither of which I won- but you can see the totals I started with and ended with- playing for just an hour and half- but I will post the winning rounds if you like as well:

Seat 1: stonned [5H,3C] ($19,214 in chips)
Seat 3: vais ($15,130 in chips)
Seat 4: bwglass ($32,470 in chips)
Seat 5: minotaur v ($4,121 in chips)
Seat 6: xx big bucks ($16,115 in chips)
Seat 7: Dublinia ($704 in chips)
Seat 8: Chenwa ($3,972 in chips)
Seat 9: Jenlove ($1,957 in chips)
Seat 10: keremhan1970 ($3,882 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
xx big bucks posts blind ($13), Dublinia posts blind ($25), stonned posts blind ($25).

PRE-FLOP
Chenwa calls $25, Jenlove calls $25, keremhan1970 calls $25, stonned checks, vais calls $25, bwglass calls $25, minotaur v bets $50, xx big bucks calls $37, Dublinia calls $25, Chenwa calls $25, Jenlove calls $25, keremhan1970 calls $25, stonned calls $25, vais calls $25, bwglass calls $25.

FLOP [board cards QH,10H,QD ]
xx big bucks checks, Dublinia checks, Chenwa checks, Jenlove checks, keremhan1970 checks, stonned checks, vais checks, bwglass bets $25, minotaur v bets $50, xx big bucks folds, Dublinia folds, Chenwa folds, Jenlove folds, keremhan1970 calls $50, stonned folds, vais calls $50, bwglass calls $25.

TURN [board cards QH,10H,QD,KC ]
keremhan1970 checks, vais bets $50, bwglass calls $50, minotaur v bets $100, keremhan1970 bets $150, vais calls $100, bwglass folds, minotaur v calls $50.

RIVER [board cards QH,10H,QD,KC,6H ]
keremhan1970 bets $50, vais bets $100, minotaur v bets $150, keremhan1970 bets $150, vais calls $100, minotaur v calls $50.

SHOWDOWN
keremhan1970 shows [ JC,AS ]
vais shows [ AH,KH ]
minotaur v mucks cards [ JD,JH ]
vais wins $1,747.

---------------------------



Seat 1: stonned [JD,JH] ($24,420 in chips)
Seat 2: Marx5150 ($2,893 in chips)
Seat 3: scouse2201 ($150 in chips)
Seat 4: barryace ($5,748 in chips)
Seat 5: Big-Balooka ($5,147 in chips)
Seat 6: Longcreek ($516 in chips)
Seat 7: xxduckman ($3,096 in chips)
Seat 8: DJ2421 ($1,272 in chips)
Seat 9: Jenlove ($974 in chips)
Seat 10: keremhan1970 ($2,957 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Big-Balooka posts blind ($13), Longcreek posts blind ($25).

PRE-FLOP
xxduckman folds, DJ2421 calls $25, Jenlove calls $25, keremhan1970 calls $25, stonned calls $25, Marx5150 folds, scouse2201 bets $50, barryace calls $50, Big-Balooka calls $37, Longcreek calls $25, DJ2421 calls $25, Jenlove calls $25, keremhan1970 calls $25, stonned calls $25.

FLOP [board cards QS,QC,10D ]
Big-Balooka checks, Longcreek checks, DJ2421 checks, Jenlove checks, keremhan1970 checks, stonned checks, scouse2201 checks, barryace checks.

TURN [board cards QS,QC,10D,AS ]
Big-Balooka checks, Longcreek checks, DJ2421 checks, Jenlove checks, keremhan1970 checks, stonned checks, scouse2201 bets $50, barryace calls $50, Big-Balooka folds, Longcreek calls $50, DJ2421 calls $50, Jenlove folds, keremhan1970 calls $50, stonned calls $50.

RIVER [board cards QS,QC,10D,AS,QD ]
Longcreek checks, DJ2421 checks, keremhan1970 bets $50, stonned calls $50, scouse2201 calls $50 and is all-in, barryace folds, Longcreek folds, DJ2421 calls $50.

SHOWDOWN
keremhan1970 shows [ JC,3S ]
stonned shows [ JD,JH ]
scouse2201 shows [ AC,7H ]
DJ2421 mucks cards [ 10H,5C ]
scouse2201 wins $897.


This just keeps happening over and over- If you look at the whole hand history- you'll see that I aint kidding about these 'streaks' that go on very consistantly- I can post any day of the week, and the results will be pretty much the same- the same seats keep winning, while other seats hit nothing all night long- over and over and over it goes.

 

[Mugwump]

I fail to see anything odd about either of these hands, except that scouse's preflop raise was stupid, and your decision not to raise preflop with JJ (even with 10 players calling) was questionable. Your decision to call it down with a pair of Q's and an A on the board was also a little suspect.

 

[Macgyver]

Geez, I'm tempted to send you $25 into a NETeller account so you WILL play real money. Then come back to us and tell us whether this is still working for you.

Maybe at their .50/1 NL tables? I know only the rudimentary basics about poker, hope that's the right way to talk about the tables.

Of course, if I do this, I want 15% of your winnings.

 

[winbig]

oh well, yet another person that can see the percentages plain as day and still think they have found a way around them. I don't even know why this thread is still going on; as it's for the play money tables.

There's no admission to watch the real money tables, so how about you do that for now and you will see that it's quite different from the play money tables; and in both cases there are no "hot seats".




But, if you're so sure there are hot seats, stick your money in and go for it. Let us know your results. Case closed.

 

[Nazareth]

The reason the thread is stil going is because you're sitting there arguing nothing wierd is going on when the fact is that in no other poker place can I do what I do at pokerroom- you're arguing this without having tried it for yourself & therefore don't know what you're tlaking about- I don't mean this to sound rude- but I've asked you 5to try it out yourself instead of standing there and insisting that it just can't be so- but you'd rather not & instead would rather stick to the fact that there's nothing unusual about certain players dominating a table consistantly & insisting that 'because other players win a few rounds' that 'there can't be anything going on.

I don't even know why this thread is still going on; as it's for the play money tables.

The conversation was about something funny going on- It has nothing to do with money or non money tables- I've been searchign for a good online Random place to play & so far, I've found that there indeed does seem to be anythign but randomness at pokerrroom which I'm dissappointed about- the origianl poster pointed out some facts & I agree with him as I've experienced the same thigns & have shared my experiences. If you know of any other poker rooms that give you 25% wins every day you play there, please let me know. I beleive you'll be hard pressed to find them and hard pressed to find any sites that let you win 4-5 in a row, then several more shortly after- tyhen shut off for awhile- If you'll go back through my listings- you will see that either pokerroom is full of the most lucky people on earth, or there is some kind of pattern going on

oh well, yet another person that can see the percentages plain as day and still think they have found a way around them.

Let's see- A not so great poker player turning $1000 into $25000 in a couple of days & there is nothing to what I'm saying? O.K- there's nothing to it- whatever. I've let you know my results i nthe fake money rooms & you deny it- I've even postecd & will continue to post & show that I'm getting 25% and better- something unheard of in other rooms- I dunno what it will take to prove anythign to you- so whatever.


Yes winbig- there is no admission - however- you need to deposit real money & that constitutes 'illergal activity' in the state I'm from- somethign I'm not oing to do tro prove a point to someone who could at any time test out what I am saying but won't.

Macgyver- I'll give you 23% - no 24%- lol you don't know how badly I want to try the real money tables- stop tempting me lol.

Mugwump:

I fail to see anything odd about either of these hands, except that scouse's preflop raise was stupid, and your decision not to raise preflop with JJ (even with 10 players calling) was questionable. Your decision to call it down with a pair of Q's and an A on the board was also a little suspect.

I stated early on that I'm both not a great player, AND that I do not play at pokerroom the same way I play at other places because of the simple fact that IF I am on the winning seat, then You will play right to the end with crappy cards- If you'd like, I'll list the whole amount of hands & you will see that I often won with crappy cards that had to be called to the end. I'm am NOT (Not stressed for emphasis) kidding when I say that when you are the one winning- you can play crappy cards and win. I have also stated that when you are on the winning seat- you can call to the end- you have no idea how often I've sat there and watched someone win with 2-2, 3-3, 4-4 etc. by hitting that last river card & making the full house- & you have no idea how many times I've sat there needing one card & by gosh by golly it comes on the flop to make thee straight when I'm on a 'streak' (Translated- predetermined pattern) That's why i called right to the end- however I should not have because I hadn't hit anything in a few hands as attested to by the hand history before that which I'll post if you like.

As I've asked before- please try this instead of telling me there is nothing going on. You say you've got an accouint, then just play the fake money rooms a few nights & observe the number of 'streaks' that go on there. it's unatural. There's nothing to lose by trying it & If what I'm saying is true, then give the money rooms a shot after practicing for a bit in the fake money rooms.

 

[Macgyver]

Yes winbig- there is no admission - however- you need to deposit real money & that constitutes 'illergal activity' in the state I'm from- somethign I'm not oing to do tro prove a point to someone who could at any time test out what I am saying but won't.

Macgyver- I'll give you 23% - no 24%- lol you don't know how badly I want to try the real money tables- stop tempting me lol.

I'm assuming your comment to me was sarcastic as I would be quite happy to put a piddly $25 for you to test this theory of yours out in REAL play.

I think that's what the majority of readers here have the problem with; some people (including myself) believe that it is much more likely that playing for fun in an online casino favors the player as a means to entice that player to deposit real money.

However, if you can't legally play where you reside, I understand.

 

[chalupa]

Chalupa, I did that last night- I stayed right in the same seat and kept track of 130 hands- I didn't play the hands that I knew I would lose & I also folded the first time I was dealt sucker cards

Actually that is not the experiment I suggested... I suggested you record only your own results, and play exactly the same way each hand (check/call to the river). Then see if you notice any difference between different seats over time.

Instead, you were using some intelligence in your play, and presumably (some) of your opponents were as well.

For example, perhaps player BD (with the lowest number of wins) decided to do a little experiment of his own, and play only AK or pocket pairs, and fold on the flop if he didn't improve or have an overpair. That would easily explain his few wins.

I also qualitatively do not see anything unusual in the "hot streaks" in your history. Obviously the only way to have NO streaks would be for a different player to win every new hand... and actually THAT would be far weirder.


Nevertheless... working with the data you provided... I analyzed it in a spreadsheet (the 0.5 winning hands are from what I assume were split pots in your data) and the results are shown below.

I also compared it to random numbers 1..10. I admit I cheated and re-calculated the numbers several times to get a graph that was a little spikier than usual, but nothing out of line for a small sample size like this.

Your player winning percentages franged from 3.6% to 20.5%. The random hands are a big more evenly distributed, but still range from 5.8% to 18.0%.

When you consider that the poker history has decidely NON-random factors (i.e. differing player styles) I don't think the results you saw are anything particularly unusual.

 

[bpb]

There's nothing to lose by trying it & If what I'm saying is true, then give the money rooms a shot after practicing for a bit in the fake money rooms.

Please keep your crackpot schemes to yourself, and have the decency to refrain from encouraging others to throw their money away on them.

 

[winbig]

Let's see- A not so great poker player turning $1000 into $25000 in a couple of days & there is nothing to what I'm saying? O.K- there's nothing to it- whatever. I've let you know my results i nthe fake money rooms & you deny it- I've even postecd & will continue to post & show that I'm getting 25% and better- something unheard of in other rooms- I dunno what it will take to prove anythign to you- so whatever.

You haven't been listening. ANYONE can turn $1000 into $25000 with play money at ANY site, IN any seat, not just this one. Play money tables are exactly the same as a pissing contest. Nobody cares. I think what everyone else is saying here is to quit wasting your time (and maybe soon to be money) trying this out.

Yes winbig- there is no admission - however- you need to deposit real money & that constitutes 'illergal activity' in the state I'm from- somethign I'm not oing to do tro prove a point to someone who could at any time test out what I am saying but won't.

And we would sit in play money tables for hours on end for what reason?

As I said, go WATCH the real money tables. Sure it may be illegal to actually PLAY them where you're at, but observing a table isn't. I believe most hold'em tables, you'll be good to see 50% average players per flop; not 90-100% average that you do on the play money tables.

[edit]

If the last statement doesn't make sense for you, let's break it down, and it's been said before too:

The more hands people play, of course the more hands you're going to win that you wouldn't normally (playing any 2 cards). By it being play money, of course there's no risk, but if you're doing it consistantly at real $ tables, you'll be bust in no time.....thus making your "findings" irrelevant.