Platinum Play Rogue Like Bonus Terms

[ChillBill]

Was reading over the Terms and Conditions at Platinum Play yesterday and found the following bonus term which seems totally unfair and not in the good spirit of gambling, least not for players.

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10. Once you have met your wagering requirements, all deposits will be added to your Cash balance. If any wagering requirements are outstanding, a portion or all of any deposit made will be added to your Bonus balance, depending on how much you still need to wager.

Posted at bottom of the T&C. Version 2010/3 - These terms were last updated on 25/05/12

I take this as meaning, if you do not clear bonus wagering (even if you zero out), every cash deposit after this point will be added to your Bonus Balance until such time as the wagering requirements are met.

What sort of rogue like behaviour is this???

 

[bigjohn]

The first item says "Should there be any confusion whatsoever as to the conditions applicable, please do not hesitate to contact our customer support team." That would be the best way to get to the bottom of it. If the terms don't end when your balance goes below $1.00 or $0 it would certainly seem rougeish to me but I would give them a chance to explain if it's a place you like.

 

[mattsgame]

Was reading over the Terms and Conditions at Platinum Play yesterday and found the following bonus term which seems totally unfair and not in the good spirit of gambling, least not for players.



I take this as meaning, if you do not clear bonus wagering (even if you zero out), every cash deposit after this point will be added to your Bonus Balance until such time as the wagering requirements are met.

What sort of rogue like behaviour is this???

I wrote about this along with another term they have Fortune Lounge Casinos

So even if you do bust out and re deposit you are held to the WR, which IMPO is a load of you know what.

I thought the term may have been written badly and misinterpreted but it has been proven that the way people are interpreting it is correct.

 

[ChillBill]

I would give them a chance to explain if it's a place you like.

Yes that's a good idea. I'll contact the Fortune Lounge rep and point him to this thread.

Update - went to send a PM but the rep's PM inbox is full and it wont send it.

 

[chuchu59]

My understanding of the way it goes at the FL Group is once you bust there are no wagering requirement carried over. However even if 1c remains you are held to the previous remaining wrs. I must say, however, that the terms are written poorly and the rep should come out and explain as she normally does.

 

[mattsgame]

My understanding of the way it goes at the FL Group is once you bust there are no wagering requirement carried over. However even if 1c remains you are held to the previous remaining wrs. I must say, however, that the terms are written poorly and the rep should come out and explain as she normally does.

Going by what I have seen and heard that is not true Chu, even after zeroing out your next deposit will have the previous WR attached to it.

Hopefully the FL rep can post clarification, but this term has been used by (CS) before when asked why a fresh deposit has some funds in a "Bonus Balance" (not to me personally so wires could have been crossed)

 

[maphesto]

I've alerted Bryan of tOld / Expired Link thread at AGD about it but he hasn't been online since.

To me this seems to a breach of the standards Bryan has setup for accredited casinos:

•Must not implement terms that can be construed as "unfair" towards the player.

It is unfair, I had big trouble understanding the terms, and so had a few other regular posters here.

 

[colly]

This is a fairly standard term at MCG and not at all roguish (IMHO). The wagering requirement WILL carry over if you have any (even 1cent) balance left in your acct before you redeposit- if you have zeroed out completely and redeposit then any any prior wagering requirements are wiped out. Ihave regulalrly tested this with the Sunday 3 match bonuses and mak sure I playoff the odd cents before redepositing. Wagering DOES NOT carry forward if you have used all your balances prior to depositing again.

I think something is being made out of nothing here- whether the playthrough should be required if you have a cent left is another question and discussiom entirely(RTG wipes WR if you have less than a full payline balance) however this is NOT restricted to FL but applies to all the MCG casinos

 

[maphesto]

This is a fairly standard term at MCG and not at all roguish (IMHO). The wagering requirement WILL carry over if you have any (even 1cent) balance left in your acct before you redeposit- if you have zeroed out completely and redeposit then any any prior wagering requirements are wiped out.

But if you check the answer posted Old / Expired Link you can see that this wasn't the case.

We are not talking about zeroing out, we are talking about a WR carrying over to next deposit.

 

[KasinoKing]

... however this is NOT restricted to FL but applies to all the MCG casinos

Well I've NEVER seen this policy at any other MGs - so can you name some of these others which you say have it please?

KK

 

[ChillBill]

This is a fairly standard term at MCG and not at all roguish (IMHO). The wagering requirement WILL carry over if you have any (even 1cent) balance left in your acct before you redeposit- if you have zeroed out completely and redeposit then any any prior wagering requirements are wiped out......

Please re-read what I posted.

If any wagering requirements are outstanding, a portion or all of any deposit made will be added to your Bonus balance, depending on how much you still need to wager.

If you zero out you account and you have not fulfilled the wagering play through, all future cash deposits will be retroactively corralled to meeting the wagering of this bonus until such time as the bonus money is cleared.

EG - a player deposits $100 (cash) and receives a $100 (bonus) @ 30x play through. But they zero out both their cash deposit and the bonus with a further $1,500 of wagering remaining. All future cash deposits will be added to the Bonus Account until such time as the original 30x bonus play through is met.

I think something is being made out of nothing here

To retroactively enforce bonus wagering on future cash deposits when an account is zeroed out, is roguish behaviour imo.

 

[De Beuker]

I've never seen this rule before at any MG casino to be honest.
Not only that, but apart from a few Flash only casinos like 10-bet (where you indeed HAVE to zero-out to get the remaining WR on a bonus waived) I've never seen this rule implemented either.
And I've played alot at FL casinos also, never had a bonus WR carried over on a fresh deposit.

I always make sure I'm under 0.50 when I redeposit, never had a problem really..

 

[colly]

"For any bet placed, funds are deducted from the players Cash Balance. If no cash is available, then the wager is deducted from the Bonus Balance. Therefore the Bonus Balance is only played if there is no Cash Balance.
If you still have credits in your Bonus Balance, you will be unable to withdraw from your Cash Balance until the playthrough requirements are achieved."

Rules 3 and 4 of 32red's bonus general T and C's- a bit clearer than FL group however the same effect if you still have ANY amount in your bonus balance (i.e there is unfilled WR) any amount in a cash balance- which would include a NEW deposit cannot be withdrawn until carry over WR are filled. This is enforced- I accidentally had 50c left in Dash and redeposited and all o/s wr had to be played.

As I stated if you zero out at fortune lounge group or any other MCG not using the proportiional bonus/cash balance method (eg All slots)then WR do NOT carry over- If you have ANY amount left in the bonus balance then ANY new deposit will retrigger the outstanding bonus wr.

 

[muziq]

this mus be true i have an account at fortune lounge i made a first deposit 125 with dep match and lost it

after some days back i got 25 free spins i zeroed out my balance then won 7.57 from free spins
then i moved to immortal and had 40 win but all my balance was on bonus balance
i argued a bit on customer service and then i let it go

 

[mattsgame]

"For any bet placed, funds are deducted from the players Cash Balance. If no cash is available, then the wager is deducted from the Bonus Balance. Therefore the Bonus Balance is only played if there is no Cash Balance.
If you still have credits in your Bonus Balance, you will be unable to withdraw from your Cash Balance until the playthrough requirements are achieved."

That is not nearly the same thing Colly, that is stating that if you still have a bonus balance (not completed wagering) then you cannot withdraw.

Rules 3 and 4 of 32red's bonus general T and C's- a bit clearer than FL group however the same effect if you still have ANY amount in your bonus balance (i.e there is unfilled WR) any amount in a cash balance- which would include a NEW deposit cannot be withdrawn until carry over WR are filled. This is enforced- I accidentally had 50c left in Dash and redeposited and all o/s wr had to be played.

As I stated if you zero out at fortune lounge group or any other MCG not using the proportiional bonus/cash balance method (eg All slots)then WR do NOT carry over- If you have ANY amount left in the bonus balance then ANY new deposit will retrigger the outstanding bonus wr.

You still had 50c left and not zeroed out your balance, that is also a different scenario.

 

[ChillBill]

Clearly it is an ambiguous term.

Once you have met your wagering requirements, all deposits will be added to your Cash balance.

The bold text is the important factor in this term. No mention if zeroing out stops WR being retroactively applied. And as other members have stated, they are aware of players who have zeroed out their account, not met WR and have been forced to meet WR with future cash deposits.

It will be good when the Fortune Lounge rep clarifies this term

 

[colly]

That is not nearly the same thing Colly, that is stating that if you still have a bonus balance (not completed wagering) then you cannot withdraw.

Read in conjunction with the other general T and C's 1 through 6 it also means that if you still have unfilled wr AND any balance in your bonus account then of course you can't withdraw it BUT if you add a new deposit then you still can't withdraw any winnings from that deposit until you have met the WR from the prior as any winnings will be added back to the bonus balance in accordance with terms 2 5 and 6.

The effect is the same- if you redeposit while you have os WR and ANY balance then you will have to fulfill the original wagering requirements before you can cashout.

 

[ChillBill]

The effect is the same- if you redeposit while you have os WR and ANY balance then you will have to fulfill the original wagering requirements before you can cashout.

If a player still has money left in an account and WR is still in play then yes that wagering must be fulfilled, I'm not disputing that.

But the term in question (clause 10) doesn't say that. It reads, "If any wagering requirements are outstanding, a portion or all of any deposit made will be added to your Bonus balance, depending on how much you still need to wager."

This indicates to me even if a players account zeros out and WR has not been met, all future deposits will be bound to fulfilling this WR.

Plus I'm not the first one to bring this up and apparently players have been forced to meet WR even when they zero out their original deposit and bonus.

If this term is retroactively forcing a player to fulfill WR even though they zero out, it's a horrid term which is unfair.

 

[bsilva028]

from my experience there when my balance has 0 out without met the WR and i made a new deposit never new WR in that

 

[vinylweatherman]

MGS Clearplay is a bit of a mess, and this term is another way to incorporate this into the terms.

Right from the start, there were reports of players making deposits into a zero balance and some being converted to bonus, seemingly at random. Often, the player would contact CS and their account would be reset so that everything was back to cash.

One major cause is an unfinished game on a players' account, but the real mess was that there have been numerous bugs that have caused phantom unfinished games to show on a players' account. One such case was the multi-player slots, where the actions of other players could cause an unfinished game to be recorded at the time a player left the slot.

The other common scenario is where a player zeroes out on a bonus, and a free chip is added without an intervening deposit (this also includes the winnings from a free spins promo). Clearplay sees this as a "win" from the previous bonus, and so ALL the unfinished WR are resurrected, not just the WR from the free chip or promotional free spins. This causes the bonus balance to INCREASE beyond the level of the free chip or promotional free spins during play.

These have always happened, so this is nothing new.

I have seen these scenarios at all MGS casinos that use Clearplay, and many don't have this "rogue" term.

This term may be an attempt to cater for the above two scenarios, so that when players complain about this there is a term covering it. Unfortunately, like Clearplay, it creates a mess because of the ambiguity. The term could also cover a policy of ALWAYS carrying over WR onto a fresh deposit, and it seems this draconian interpretation is the one being believed. It's a problem the industry has created for itself through using words like "may" when they mean "will", and trying to tone down the severity of terms they believe will scare players away. Now any ambiguous term is interpreted as to it's most draconial meaning, so this term is being interpreted to mean that WR will always carry over regardless, even though Clearplay has never worked like this. If FL actually intend to carry over WR regardless, they will have to change the settings in Clearplay (if possible), and then ALL players will be seeing this. As it stands, only a few are actually seeing this, and may simply fall into the above scenarios, unfinished game and free chip on top of zeroed bonus.


This is something that MGS need to address, so don't hold your breath

 

[fortunelounge]

We are currently looking at the wording and the intent of the term and I will inform you all if any changes have been made.

Regards

Wim

 

[vinylweatherman]

We are currently looking at the wording and the intent of the term and I will inform you all if any changes have been made.

Regards

Wim

Better sooner than later. This issue seems to have been raised at Affiliateguarddog, and appears to be putting affiliates off from promoting FL.

 

[dunover]

I can confirm that VegasPartnerLounge do NOT carry over WR.
I have accounts on most of their sites, and this is what happens.
You zero out, next deposit (if a cash-only one with no bonus) goes in as cash.
If you leave a few pence in, which I have done on several occasions which is BONUS funds, then it goes like this:
You leave 50p in as bonus, then deposit 25 cash, then the remaining 50p bonus goes to cash as soon as the 35x 50p is played, i.e. after several spins at say 90p the 50p bonus vanishes. It seems like a fresh cash-only deposit treats any remaining bonus funds as just-credited, in this case you deposited 25 and got a 50p bonus.
They also do the clearplay, where the bonus is incremented and turned to cash in blocks of 10% of WR.
So if you have a 50-50 bonus/cash on a 100 deposit say, after 350 pounds of play (i.e. 10% of your 3500 bonus WR) your balance is then 60-40 cash-bonus. You can w/d the cash at any stage forfeiting remaining bonus funds. This is how it should work for all IMO and is why I like VPL properties. Plus w/d's processed after 24 hours except weekends.

Just for your info people....

 

[fortunelounge]

I can confirm that VegasPartnerLounge do NOT carry over WR.
I have accounts on most of their sites, and this is what happens.
You zero out, next deposit (if a cash-only one with no bonus) goes in as cash.
If you leave a few pence in, which I have done on several occasions which is BONUS funds, then it goes like this:
You leave 50p in as bonus, then deposit 25 cash, then the remaining 50p bonus goes to cash as soon as the 35x 50p is played, i.e. after several spins at say 90p the 50p bonus vanishes. It seems like a fresh cash-only deposit treats any remaining bonus funds as just-credited, in this case you deposited 25 and got a 50p bonus.
They also do the clearplay, where the bonus is incremented and turned to cash in blocks of 10% of WR.
So if you have a 50-50 bonus/cash on a 100 deposit say, after 350 pounds of play (i.e. 10% of your 3500 bonus WR) your balance is then 60-40 cash-bonus. You can w/d the cash at any stage forfeiting remaining bonus funds. This is how it should work for all IMO and is why I like VPL properties. Plus w/d's processed after 24 hours except weekends.

Just for your info people....

Despite this term, in practice, we also do not carry over wagering requirements unless there are bets still in play or money left on the table. All wagering requirements are removed when the bonus balance falls below 5 credits.

That is why we are urgently looking at the term.

Wim

 

[chuchu59]

Despite this term, in practice, we also do not carry over wagering requirements unless there are bets still in play or money left on the table. All wagering requirements are removed when the bonus balance falls below 5 credits.

That is why we are urgently looking at the term.

Wim

Glad to see your reply Wim but I have my doubts on this. As long as there is even 1c of bonus left the wagering requirements are carried forward.

One other thing I would like to mention is the bonuses are not always credited as such. Sometimes they are credited as cash ie credited to your cash balance and immediately withdrawable.

 

[ChillBill]

unless there are bets still in play or money left on the table.

Not wanting to derail my own thread but I've notice this strange phenomenon with MGS software, happened to me a few times. I re-deposit and discover I'm still held to a previous bonus even though I'd zero the balance.

I'm not singling Fortune Lounge or any other casino out over this but why has MGS not fixed this issue? Doing a little research here I'm not the first player this has happened to. Surely it can't be that hard to implement a routine which checks if a bet is left on a table or a game is still in play state, when the player has closed/logged out of the game.

If that's too hard for MGS to code in, a simple popup reminding the player a bet is still in play, would surely be another good solution to fix this problem.

 

[RikkiGT-R]

I was caught out with something like this recently at Royal Vegas
Deposited £100, of which ALL was transferred to bonus balance after about 5 minutes of play. I absolutely hit the roof

Turns out I had been playing (with a bonus) about 6 months ago and on my last spin got free spins on Summer Holiday, betting £2 (I was just using up the last few pound) I won £6 ffs! so I just quickly closed the casino in disgust.
Anyway I didn't go near them for 6 months or so, and then the above happened upon my return. When CS explained, I went back to Summer Holiday and realised I could "have another go" at the free spins.
I did so and duly won £166

 

[vinylweatherman]

Not wanting to derail my own thread but I've notice this strange phenomenon with MGS software, happened to me a few times. I re-deposit and discover I'm still held to a previous bonus even though I'd zero the balance.

I'm not singling Fortune Lounge or any other casino out over this but why has MGS not fixed this issue? Doing a little research here I'm not the first player this has happened to. Surely it can't be that hard to implement a routine which checks if a bet is left on a table or a game is still in play state, when the player has closed/logged out of the game.

If that's too hard for MGS to code in, a simple popup reminding the player a bet is still in play, would surely be another good solution to fix this problem.

MGS have done both.......

..badly

There is even the pop-up reminding players of a bet in play, but it doesn't work properly. It sometimes fails to appear when it should, and sometimes claims there is a bet in play when there isn't.

A properly working pop-up would help a great deal. Players would know what the problem was, and would be able to check the game to see who was in the right, them or the casino.

It seems FL have added a term, but nothing has actually changed in the way Clearplay works. Perhaps the term should be clarified so that it does not indicate that "all" WR will be carried over when a player plays out their balance. MGS need to get their unfinished game detection working properly, and ensure a working means for players to immediately identify the game in question. This will become all the more important as MGS bring out newer and more complex games, and defining the meaning and detection of a "bet in play" on each of these games is essential else players start to feel they are just getting screwed.

One thing to remember above all, the games are supposed to be random, and not influenced by past results. Any definition of "bet in play" needs to fit this model else players will get the impression that some rules are in place because past events DO affect future outcomes on some games. There are certainly games that are designed to give this impression, such as the achievement table of Thunderstruck II, where one earns "better" feature choices by getting the bonus round 5 or more times, and the illusion that completing all the paytable achievements is somehow beneficial.

 

[mattsgame]

MGS Clearplay is a bit of a mess, and this term is another way to incorporate this into the terms.

Right from the start, there were reports of players making deposits into a zero balance and some being converted to bonus, seemingly at random. Often, the player would contact CS and their account would be reset so that everything was back to cash.

One major cause is an unfinished game on a players' account, but the real mess was that there have been numerous bugs that have caused phantom unfinished games to show on a players' account. One such case was the multi-player slots, where the actions of other players could cause an unfinished game to be recorded at the time a player left the slot.

The other common scenario is where a player zeroes out on a bonus, and a free chip is added without an intervening deposit (this also includes the winnings from a free spins promo). Clearplay sees this as a "win" from the previous bonus, and so ALL the unfinished WR are resurrected, not just the WR from the free chip or promotional free spins. This causes the bonus balance to INCREASE beyond the level of the free chip or promotional free spins during play.

These have always happened, so this is nothing new.

I have seen these scenarios at all MGS casinos that use Clearplay, and many don't have this "rogue" term.

This term may be an attempt to cater for the above two scenarios, so that when players complain about this there is a term covering it. Unfortunately, like Clearplay, it creates a mess because of the ambiguity. The term could also cover a policy of ALWAYS carrying over WR onto a fresh deposit, and it seems this draconian interpretation is the one being believed. It's a problem the industry has created for itself through using words like "may" when they mean "will", and trying to tone down the severity of terms they believe will scare players away. Now any ambiguous term is interpreted as to it's most draconial meaning, so this term is being interpreted to mean that WR will always carry over regardless, even though Clearplay has never worked like this. If FL actually intend to carry over WR regardless, they will have to change the settings in Clearplay (if possible), and then ALL players will be seeing this. As it stands, only a few are actually seeing this, and may simply fall into the above scenarios, unfinished game and free chip on top of zeroed bonus.


This is something that MGS need to address, so don't hold your breath

It maybe the case here, and CS has not simply said to the players when questioned that they have games still in play and simply sent the players the T&C to be done with it.

This scenario has happened to me at 32Red quite a bit but CS will say "oh Matthew you have an unfinished game, let me fix this for you" and then off I go on my merry way.

Despite this term, in practice, we also do not carry over wagering requirements unless there are bets still in play or money left on the table. All wagering requirements are removed when the bonus balance falls below 5 credits.

That is why we are urgently looking at the term.

Wim

I apologise on my stance about the zeroing out if this is the case, but it does look as though cs is being lazy and just sending players to the t&c without actually taking a look at what has gone wrong, if it is indeed the case VWM is talking about which does happen at other MG casinos but is usually rectified pretty quickly. I also think it might be a good idea to re write the term to represent what it actually means as the way it is atm seems to be turning a lot of affiliates and players away for the wrong reasons.

I would also still like to know the reasoning behind clause 18. but that's for a different topic I guess.

 

[Realitybitez]

I dont really get it. I've played at all the Fortune Lounge Casinos and 7 Sultans alot but I've never had a bonus wagering requirement carry through to the next deposit Mind you, I've heard too many horror stories so I always made sure to zero the balance totally Oh I lie, I have had some cases where my deposits have gone straight into bonus section and not into the cash section but as soon as I hit Live Chat up, they always fix the problem. Maybe thats just an issue with the flash casino? I dont know, but being a person who takes bonuses all the time, I can honestly say I've never had to carry on previous wagering to the next deposit

 

[fortunelounge]

Hi everyone

The term has now been changed to read "Once you have met your wagering requirements, all subsequent deposits will be added to your Cash balance. If, prior to meeting your full wagering requirements, your account balance drops below 5 casino credits and provided there are no bets in play at the time, then your wagering requirements will be considered to be met. By example, bets in play may include any un-played free spins waiting on a slot machine, or a bet waiting to complete on a blackjack table."

I wish to thank everyone who have participated in this discussion and apologise for any confusion or uncertainty the previous term created.

Regards

Wim

 

[ChillBill]

Thank you Wim for addressing this in a professional manner.

 

[bigbear]

I have had this problem even at 32Red.I deposited,took a bonus lost the whole amount (checked to make sure my balance was zero) then made a new deposit without a bonus.Part of the second deposit then showed as a bonus balance.It happened twice,so i contacred live chat.First time the bonus amount was credited back to my real money account,second time i had to forego the bonus in order to make a withdrawal-although it was not really an issue as the bonus was only £6.40 of a total withdrawal of £300.I was also told that the problem could have been caused by a previous unfinished game although this situation seems to arise when you zero out on a deposit+bonus and then immediately make a fresh deposit.