Microgaming.. WTH

[brianzz]

Has anyone noticed that for about the past 20 days or so (since the last game release) that you can't hit anything at Microgaming casinos? I deposit, lose, deposit, lose, on and on and on and on. I think of the past 20 days I've been up by just a few dollars 1 time depositing about $100 a day. Call it bad luck or whatever but eventually you'd think you'd have to win something. All I know is if a land based casino tightened down like the online casinos have, it'd be a ghost town.

I know they've done something to Hitman to make it just inhale the money, since my $1200 bonus, I've hit free spins 1 time in 20 days, pick a bonus a few times but it's always 2x the bet and PDA once for about 4X my bet. Cashapillar - nothing. Break Da Bank, I give up on that game. Microgaming is advanced enough they should have some way to exclude yourself from certain games like that lousy money sucking bank game. There was talk in the other threads about the AWP or whatever they're called games having some kind of memory for each player, they must've installed that feature in all the slots because you sure can't hit anything on them.

If the other casinos software weren't so damn boring I'd play there, but the few times I've played at the Rivals it's sucked the money right up, and since they're chumming around with the scumbags from 888 I wouldn't touch them with a 20 foot deposit.

 

[james01]

If the other casinos software weren't so damn boring I'd play there, but the few times I've played at the Rivals it's sucked the money right up, and since they're chumming around with the scumbags from 888 I wouldn't touch them with a 20 foot deposit.

My understanding was that the 888 deal was with the Rival software providers, not the licensees - that is, that 888 will be offering Rival games under their own label, and won't be affiliated with rival sites in any manner.

 

[brianzz]

I'm sure 888 will let them know the ways of the business.. Much like the many faces of Oliver Curan did with the other RTG's

 

[Nobunaga]

Slots

Brianzz.Why not give up on slots and play a back up game, like video poker, sports betting, poker, baccarat, or other games in which the house edge would be lower or could be managed better.

Slots always have high vigorish, so don't play them all the time.Treat yourself, play them for fun, but to be a professional slot player, would be extremely tough, if not very possible at all, to pay for a house, car and kids with all of that money, year after year.

You'll find that you can win at the other games with proper money management, and you'll have more fun and less depression from your losses.

Try it for a week and see.

Then PM me with your findings.

Nobunaga

 

[shadow123]

I know they've done something to Hitman to make it just inhale the money, since my $1200 bonus, I've hit free spins 1 time in 20 days, pick a bonus a few times but it's always 2x the bet and PDA once for about 4X my bet. Cashapillar - nothing. Break Da Bank, I give up on that game. Microgaming is advanced enough they should have some way to exclude yourself from certain games like that lousy money sucking bank game. There was talk in the other threads about the AWP or whatever they're called games having some kind of memory for each player, they must've installed that feature in all the slots because you sure can't hit anything on them.

QUOTE]

I have to agree with you on Hitman , It is certainly not a random game and
and will take and take then give you an series of features, Osbournes is the same and I think they have both been tinkered with recently.
Cashapillar and Break Da Bank are both very high variance games,I know they do drop but they are not games I would chase losses on.

 

[matty]

i guess they're in big urge of getting money. luckly not playing there, but its not nice to hear it

 

[juliack]

I received a $2500 long time no see bonus from Bellerock. I stopped playing there last year because of a 6 month solid losing streak. When I checked my computer this morning the bonus was credited to one of my Bellerock accounts. I thought something might have changed over the past 8 months I have not played there. Bonus gone in less than 30 minutes. No change...no play. I am starting to feel quite controlled at MG casinos. There are certain jackpots you would expect to hit after playing heavily for 8 years. I probably should have hit a pat royal several times on power play VP but never have seen one other than the odd player playing far less than max dollars. The ratio of pat royals I have hit at B&M s would probably equate to 50 times online theoretically. Cheers

 

[brianzz]

Slots are pretty subjective, they hit for one person and not for the other, but I've noticed quite a few posts about MG slots being so tight they squeak as they spin. Something really must be rotten in casino land. Maybe MG has added the mythical sliding return that RTG has been known to have and adjust often. If you think a casino would have a game they couldn't change the odds/return on in the backend, you must be on drugs.

As far as those "independent audits" I've always thought that was a steaming load. I'd like to see how those stack up if you exclude progressive wagers/payouts, probably be far less than the 95%+ that most of them state or better yet a game by game by casino by denomination break down. But that would require actually having an independent audit.

While I'm on the audit subject. It seems online casinos are consistanly above par on the payouts on tables as opposed to B&M casinos. A eCogra certification I'm looking at now for a casino says across all tables had a hold of 3.13%. A B&M casino hold report for the same time period reports that the overall hold was 17.81%. I could understand a few % points, even 8 or 9% but over 14%? This is a consistant trend, B&M's hold more than online casinos? Are there really that many "professional level" table players on the internet? I don't think so. Even Las Vegas table holds aren't that low, they hang in the 13% a month neighborhood. And we all know how many card counters flock to Vegas every weekend not to mention the people that actually know what they're doing.

Nobody has ever really discussed a way to "tweak" the way cards are shuffled/dealt in VP to skew the returns from ones in a B&M casino. The slightest difference can throw the return off from what you would expect from say a 9/6 paytable. I'm sure it's possible.

Has it really ever been proven the that a 9/6 online VP paytable behaves exactly the same as a 9/6 B&M paytable, I suppose we just take for granted that it does. As much as Juilack plays this could be a case study if you could pull records of a majority of the hands you've played.

 

[GrandMaster]

While I'm on the audit subject. It seems online casinos are consistanly above par on the payouts on tables as opposed to B&M casinos. A eCogra certification I'm looking at now for a casino says across all tables had a hold of 3.13%. A B&M casino hold report for the same time period reports that the overall hold was 17.81%. I could understand a few % points, even 8 or 9% but over 14%? This is a consistant trend, B&M's hold more than online casinos? Are there really that many "professional level" table players on the internet? I don't think so. Even Las Vegas table holds aren't that low, they hang in the 13% a month neighborhood. And we all know how many card counters flock to Vegas every weekend not to mention the people that actually know what they're doing.

You seem to be confusing hold and house edge.

 

[brianzz]

House advantage has nothing to do with it.

Hold is the figure (profit) after subtracting payouts from wagers on a casino table game. Win is the same for slots but it's reported as "Slot Win".

Fig 1. eCogra reporting a 3.13% hold (96.87 of wagers returned to players (minus) 100. (total wagers)=3.13)

Fig 2. Gaming authorities reporting a 17.81% hold (82.19% of wagers returned to player (minus) 100. (total wagers)=17.81)

The original question was, are there that many good table players that play online vs. B&M casinos? Don't think so

 

[Matthew23]

If you think a casino would have a game they couldn't change the odds/return on in the backend, you must be on drugs.

Unless they were a Rogue casino, any other casino would not want to lower the payout percentage even if they could. Why would they lower it? It would not make them more money. If no one was winning then people would stop playing altogether and the casino would go broke. The casino wants and needs players to win from time to time to keep them interested in playing. They'll win in the long run anyway! If you truly believe the games are fixed but you're still playing then "you must be on drugs"

I do agree that Hitman has some kind of memory. Actually, we know it does because there was a bug that when you hit the green laptop bonus for the second time during the 18 free spins, it would pay the exact same amount as the first time and then the game would permanently freeze. Something along those lines anyway.

I usually only play MG casinos. I've been lucky this last 2 months at Dash casino. I only low roll on slots and my payout % is 100.5 % after maybe 75,000 spins or so. I guess it just comes down to luck.

 

[retlaw]

Has anyone noticed that for about the past 20 days or so (since the last game release) that you can't hit anything at Microgaming casinos?

I noticed.This month is the worst since I play online.
I play on 3 MG casino's almost every day and play VP 90 % of the time.
So the reason why you loose is not the fact that you play slots (IMHO).

 

[chuchu59]

Throw in Bacarrat into the no-no games at MG, especially if you bet than $10. I have not won any hands at $20 or more for the past month. Sends me the shivers.

 

[GrandMaster]

House advantage has nothing to do with it.

Hold is the figure (profit) after subtracting payouts from wagers on a casino table game. Win is the same for slots but it's reported as "Slot Win".

Fig 1. eCogra reporting a 3.13% hold (96.87 of wagers returned to players (minus) 100. (total wagers)=3.13)

Fig 2. Gaming authorities reporting a 17.81% hold (82.19% of wagers returned to player (minus) 100. (total wagers)=17.81)

The original question was, are there that many good table players that play online vs. B&M casinos? Don't think so

You are still not getting it. The figures in the ecogra report are expressed as a percentage of the total amount wagered. The hold is calculated as a percentage of chips bought or amount deposited into machines. See also

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, scroll down to see the definition of hold.

 

[babs7262]

Do you guys know that I had ONE cashout almost 2 years ago from an MG casino and havnt had one since? Just letting you know. Yes, I took a few months off but still!

 

[cslate]

Well i still don't understand why people bitch about this.

They win...you lose!

simple but true......

Oh and as soon as your feeling down the great people known as affiliates (salesman) step in to try and make it seem profitable with bullsh!t and phony stats and unbeatable promos.....

Not to mention if you win the scrutiny you face....and sending that type of info to operators is very dangerous way of promoting identity theft.

Would and could they sell your info?

yes.....

Did anything happen to the obvious theft and fraud that absolute poker or ultimate bet have proven.....

No

It is profitable only if you own them or sell their product.

caveat emptor.

(buyer beware)

 

[just play]

I noticed.This month is the worst since I play online.

It's the total opposite for me. I have won so much in the last month my head is spinning. All at one MG casino Villento, and on only 4 slots.

RTG and 3dice take my money so fast, I mean FAST, I have uninstalled 3dice and probably will never look back, it feels like I open a window and just throw out bills into the wind. Inet is no better, but sometimes I get to play longer than 10 minutes.

 

[lauram]

When i first started playing while back i joined roxy in saying that i got my account to over 700 i called them asking how to cash out and where to fax the forms was told i had to play this and this still. Now at that time i made a 20 deposit match was 20, but being new player didnt know what they meant so played it off. Was after joining here the sweet folks of this site helped me lots with the facts of bonus taking and the ins and outs of dif casinos. Now i have done many deposits with roxy and i havent yet got a withdraw once from them seems like they know im a lil up on things so they flicked that switch that says dont let her win anything. So i stick with the 2 mg casinos that have paid me back and in within few days jackpotcity and alljackpots. I have tried the others and when its not fun playing at their casino then to me its not worth depositing. I have found other mg sites just dead spin after spin i found playtech
chat abuse while playing with full deposit upsetting they dont leave you alone at all and worse part is you just got in there and deposited one spin in there like fast make this deposit and here is bonus so i gave them up. Rival i cant deposit they dont take instadebit any longer but they have gotten just as bad with the dead spins money is gone in few min. Rtg for me is half and half
at least i can withdraw from them also but at times get those dead spins.

 

[babs7262]

Well i still don't understand why people bitch about this.

They win...you lose!

simple but true......

Oh and as soon as your feeling down the great people known as affiliates (salesman) step in to try and make it seem profitable with bullsh!t and phony stats and unbeatable promos.....

Not to mention if you win the scrutiny you face....and sending that type of info to operators is very dangerous way of promoting identity theft.

Would and could they sell your info?


yes.....

Did anything happen to the obvious theft and fraud that absolute poker or ultimate bet have proven.....

No

It is profitable only if you own them or sell their product.

caveat emptor.

(buyer beware)

And you joined this site why? I dont understand you, seiously, why join a gaming site if you dont gamble at online casinos and basically call us all morons because we do?

 

[cslate]

Another abusive post [deleted] - what is it in the air today? Sheesh.

 

[debbiek]

Personally, I don't think the payout problem is limited to MG. It's also RTG for sure and probably Rival too based on recent posts I've read. I'm not sure if it's limited to software where US players go, but it's very obvious.

I really think the only way to find out the real truth behind the changing online situation is to get information from a high level "insider" as to how their operations have changed and their business philosophy. While it seems reasonable to say that a casino cannot profit if they're deposits are down, maybe they offset that with reduced costs/manpower needed to process withdrawls. Also, if 85% of the customers that deposit lose all their money, the casino is guaranteed profit from these depositors. They've limited the bonus round payouts dramatically, so this shields them from any significant outlay there.

There are always diehard gamblers that go back to see if anything has improved and also a percentage of new players just discovering online gambling. Basically, that's what the casino needs to keep those deposits rolling in. They basically have the entire US market as "potential losers". Why not offer good bonuses to attract new players and keep payouts very very low to insure profit?

This is just my insight, but it seems the online payout percentage has dropped dramatically across most software providers in US play. I don't think it's too much about luck anymore, just about terrible odds and a changing business philosophy capitalizing on limited marketplace competition.

 

[cslate]

sounds like your calling us morons.........just kidding

 

[jas2587]

ok...

wow touched a nerve!



I didnt think i called anyone a moron.


but now i will

your the moron


Sorry for stating the obvious

I think you are way out of line
this was uncalled for

mo�ron �� (m�rn, mr-) KEY �

NOUN:

A stupid person; a dolt.
Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.


Cindy

 

[cslate]

lol....

I was just stating the truth.....

Thanks for the definition though....I wasnt sure what babs was calling everyone.

 

[james01]

Yes, thanks. I thought I'd been called a Mormon, and you know, that just wouldn't do. I've never even been to Utah!

 

[brianzz]

You are still not getting it. The figures in the ecogra report are expressed as a percentage of the total amount wagered. The hold is calculated as a percentage of chips bought or amount deposited into machines. See also

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, scroll down to see the definition of hold.

so you're saying the ecogra reports aren't saying that they paid out 96% of the money played across the tables? or that the gaming report aren't saying they paid out 87% of money played across the tables? Whether you say hold or win or whatever, it's the amount of money/profit that was kept from the total wagers on tables for that month and I think those numbers have been skewed by online casinos.

 

[GrandMaster]

The ecogra figure is not the hold percentage. An example:
Let's say players deposit $25000, wager $100000, and lose $5000. In the ecogra report this would show as 95% returned to players, whereas a B&M casino would consider it as a hold of 20%.

 

[brianzz]

If that's what you want to think, more power to you but I'm not buying these ecogra reports. They're worse than the PWC reports which pretty much said word for word that you could purchase what your report wanted to say.

 

[GrandMaster]

It is not what I "want to think", but what the figures mean. If you don't believe them, that's a different matter, but you should be clear about what you don't believe in.

 

[retlaw]

I do believe the ecogra figures, but even with a payout of 98% it is possible to loose a lot of money.
It is a misleading figure,certainly for new online players ,because not everyone knows how it has been calculated.
The hold percentage of B&M casino's are more real, because they are related to the money which has been lost.
Winning or loosing money : that's the most important (at least for me)

 

[Josh66]

Hi all

Thanks for this thread. I thought it was just me.

Until things change I am not playing at any MG casinos. I have spent thousands of pounds with various MG casinos and little fun to be had. Constant loosing is not what it's all about. What are the chances of a 6 month bad streak?

I agree with a lot of what has been said and think it might be time to rest the gambling altogether for a while.

Cheers

J

 

[brianzz]

... and here's what I'll believe, B&M casino kept 14% of what was played across table games.. ecogra says online casino kept 3%, I choose to believe the ecoga report is distorting figures to make it look more enticing to depositors.

 

[happygobrokey]

14% hold means players, on average, leave 14% of their money with the dealers or in the machine's guts.

97% payback means that the casino made, on average, three cents for every dollar wagered.

if i understand it correctly...

 

[Jasminebed]

What are the chances of a 6 month bad streak?

I'd have to say they are higher than a six month winning streak. Are you sure you've never been ahead? That would be considered part of your payback percentage, even if you fail to cash out. I certainly do not cash out $20 up three minutes into my weekend fix. Or I would make money like KK

If you are not having fun losing, I suggest you do something else. I try to enjoy losing my money at least, and pretty much regard it as gone once I deposit. I just want a chance to play for a while and hope.

 

[SlotsWizard]

... and here's what I'll believe, B&M casino kept 14% of what was played across table games.. ecogra says online casino kept 3%, I choose to believe the ecoga report is distorting figures to make it look more enticing to depositors.

You can't compare them at face value, because the two reports represent completely different statistics. Consider the following identical situations:

1) I bring $100 with me to Vegas, play 500 spins at $1 each, and am left with $50.

2) I deposit $100 at an online casino, play 500 spins at $1 each, and am left with $50.

In both of the above scenarios, the Hold is 50% (because 50% of the bankroll was lost), and the Return was 90% (because 10% of the money wagered was lost).

The Vegas reports are referring to the Hold; the eCogra reports are referring to the Return. The Hold is almost always going to look worse than the Return.

 

[happygobrokey]

thanks sw, that's what i meant to say but cuddn't figger how to phrase it. what's new, mate? you alrite?

 

[suzy1975]

Has anyone noticed that for about the past 20 days or so (since the last game release) that you can't hit anything at Microgaming casinos? I deposit, lose, deposit, lose, on and on and on and on. I think of the past 20 days I've been up by just a few dollars 1 time depositing about $100 a day. Call it bad luck or whatever but eventually you'd think you'd have to win something. All I know is if a land based casino tightened down like the online casinos have, it'd be a ghost town.

I know they've done something to Hitman to make it just inhale the money, since my $1200 bonus, I've hit free spins 1 time in 20 days, pick a bonus a few times but it's always 2x the bet and PDA once for about 4X my bet. Cashapillar - nothing. Break Da Bank, I give up on that game. Microgaming is advanced enough they should have some way to exclude yourself from certain games like that lousy money sucking bank game. There was talk in the other threads about the AWP or whatever they're called games having some kind of memory for each player, they must've installed that feature in all the slots because you sure can't hit anything on them.

If the other casinos software weren't so damn boring I'd play there, but the few times I've played at the Rivals it's sucked the money right up, and since they're chumming around with the scumbags from 888 I wouldn't touch them with a 20 foot deposit.

HI Brianzzz OMG you are angry. I think you should take a wee break before you lose it altogether and as for break da bank again i find it to be gr8 on occasions and poor on others.

 

[sparkz]

my last and final gamble was possibly the worst luck ever at a microgaming casino, that did partly come into the reason behind me quitting.. only if i had a game log before closing my account in disgust...

i deposited 20, played "classic blackjack" the hands were roughly as follows


2 bet - me:20, dealer:21 (out of 4 cards)
2 bet - me:21 (from 3 cards) dealer:BJ
2 bet - me:10 (then doubled to get 20 as dealer showed a 6) dealer:21 (3 card 21)
2 bet - me:BJ, dealer BJ
2 bet - me:19, dealer:20
2 bet - me:20, dealer:21
4 bet - me:21, dealer:BJ
2 bet - me:17, dealer:18
2 bet - me:19, dealer:20

i was shocked, not only was it constant losses, not 1 win, but it took me less than a minute to lose 20, i wouldnt of cared about losing that money if for example i had won 1 hand of BJ and then gone over to slots and lost it, or came back later to play bj and lost it then as gambling is meant to be fun with a chance of winning but this was no fun and a total loss

combined with all the hassles faced of actually being paid (i.e last 5 times i have cashed out at different casinos from either my own deposit or a no deposit bonus i had been left with hassle and problems that have taken days/weeks to sort out or in 1 case not at all) and days when this sorta thing happens i just dont want to bet or wager any of my money anymore

 

[Vegasbum]

This thread is more than a year old

 

[me_and_ed]

This thread is more than a year old

Thank You, I was about to say that.

 

[sparkz]

lmao id hardly noticed,

i think its pretty funny it was bought up again though, just as my "luck" is that poor,

does sicken me to see microgaming advertising all that progressive rubbish mumbo jumbo, laughable that you clearly see mentions of 1,000,000 jackpots and people that have won it playing 2+ a spin, to be betting that high to start with people who play them must just have the money to throw away thus they wouldnt need a win like that. For every winner theres 1000 losers n all that lol

the modern day odds of gambling and not just MG are utter rubbish if im honest, like with my loss posted above, if i knew that was going to happen then i would just of spent that money on something decent. I though i would be having an hour or so of entertainment but instead was granted with less than 1 minute of hair pulling losses.

if in this incidence i was playing at a real casino or with a real deck, there is probably not even a slight chance of getting that card combination that i recieved (9 times in a row the dealer either beating my 21 with bj, pushing on bj with me, or beating my 20 with 4 cards+), i was simply set to lose. Im almost certain that if for example i had just stuck when i had 15 instead of hitting to 20 then the dealers other card could well of been a 7 thus he would of beaten my with 17, but as i hit to 20 instead i was beaten by 21 thus no win situation.

 

[wayram]

Well Well, I put in a similiar thread three months ago stating that my run of luck had run out and was giving them away after seeing the light..It has been three months and i have kept to my word have not played online slots and even land line slots and it is nice to have bucks back in the pocket instead of giving it all to the casinos..I have played poker on pokerstars and for a couple of bucks some games i have played have lasted up to 4 hours and have been given many tickets into larger tournies...and won a few bucks as well. You can jam the slots you know where at ALL casinos.

 

[sparkz]

dont blame you 1 bit for that,

its even a factor on real slots now as well,

with all these 75 and 200 machines out its impossible to enjoy them, instead of the old days of using a few left after buying a pint at a pub you need to put in at least 6 to even get a bonus. Mostly even nowadays you can guarantee nobody thinks "ill have a few on this fruit machine", instead they typically would spent allday on a machine or until the win a jackpot so potentially anyone else that plays on it wont win jack shit (i know that from the other day, a combined amount of 20 on 2 30p a spin machines, won nothing, no bonuses even)

could just be me but it has felt recently that any type of "gambling" (online casinos, fruit machines) have grown to be "tighter", because generally between a month or 2 ago and a few weeks ago (since the last time i gambled with my money) i have won purely nothing

 

[wayram]

As a VIP Slots member for over 6 years at Crown Casino Melbourne Australia, my last visit was 4 months ago and i lost 500 in 30 minutes playing three lines on the $1 machines which i always play. Normally i would have many drops and 500 would last me for most of the evening and many times build it up so that i would either win a little or break out even. THEY at CROWN have turned the machines right back and it is near impossible to win, there were many complaints from patrons saying the same thing..Online i have had good success over the years but in the last 6 months it is also near impossible to win, thats why there are so many complaints from CM members. Casinos either landbased or online are there to make a profit NOT to keep us gamblers happy..They say the machines are random and cannot be fiddled with....BULLSHIT they are computers and they can turn them back, front and sideways if they want and they do...A guy said to me about six months ago at the pub...you would have to be brain dead to play on a machine that can be programmed the way they want them to be...I have to agree with him !!!!

 

[Mirvel]

%?

Lol cant believe u think the % wil tell you anything.....
I can create a game with 3000% payout and stil make sure u wil not win.....