MicroGaming System's Software Suspicious Random Generation????

If you're not in the U.S, another one you might want to look at is Tattersall's Casino. Not the same "virtual" style as Ho's, but they dont use MGS and their gov regulated (double whammy to keep the house straight).Like Dave_r's comment about Ho's, they may not throw money around, but you dont have to jump through hoops to get at what they do offer! Playthrough requirement is lower too.
 
"The sad thing is that Casinomeister and the OPA recommend them"???

Okay, put your (virtual) money where your mouth is. Prove that they (CON games) are not randomly generated. If they are proven to be "crooked" as you believe, I'll remove their ads. If they are prooven to be random in nature...I'll keep the ads in place and continue recommending them.

Let a third party take a good look at the games (gamemaster, wizard of odds) and have them post their findings.

The ball is in your court.

~b
 
Hahaha! Players shouldn't forget the fact that you removed them back in Jan 2000.

By Bryan Bailey (Admin) ( - 62.144.45.225) on Sunday, January 23, 2000 - 09:21
pm:
Hi Dave,

Casino-on-net was removed from Casinomeister because of their pathetic customer
service. After ignoring numerous emails they finally responded explaining that they
had changed servers and they never received my emails (even though none
bounced back). I thought all was well, but again they became unresponsive; thus
their removal.

Bryan

You recently added them back to your recommended list several months ago. It is true that they are now very responsive to customer complaints. It is also true they just put in a toll free phone # in North America.

HOWEVER, never forget this message from Yanni:
By Yanni ( - 192.116.23.107) on Monday, January 17, 2000 - 08:25 am:
Do not beleive me??? You should not beleive them!!

I will tell you what I also experienced:
1 made a real test and lost $1000 just to make the test and prove my self.

I made bets on all numbers keeping 2 numbers without any bet. Which means I bet
on 35 numbers leaving 13 and 34 with no bets. I bet $1 on each number. I kept
repeating this bet for 100 times.
The odds of the ball landing on one of the 2 numbers are 2/37 right? which means
that it should land on one of them about 6 times in my 100 spins. Do you beleive
that the ball struck 13 and 34 for more than 19 times in my 100 spin!!!!

I repeated the bet but reversed it. I bet on 13 and 34 and left all the other numbers
open. for 100 spins do you know how many time the ball landed on 13 or 34???
NONE NONE NONE NONE NONE!!!!

IT IS REALLY MADNESS FROM THEM

Or This Message:
By Yanni ( - 192.116.23.68) on Saturday, January 15, 2000 - 08:51 am:
Dear guys!

Casino On Net have gone mad! They have changed management and started a big
campaign of advertisments. You can see their advertisments everywhere on the
internet.
However they seem and I am sure changed their odds!!!! Their software is BIASED
and now you CANNOT win there!!! what about having a 20 in blackjack and the
dealer recovers from 2!!!

Whatabout having a 25 blacks in roulette in a row! and when you bet on black you
get red!!!!!

Please anyone who feels this post here!

They even used to give me a 10% bonus on all my western union deposit.. They
started to deny that and they claim that they will no longer give me the bonus after I
deposited $1700 and lost them all because of their fool software!

Or this message:
By Sirius ( - 213.1.183.160) on Tuesday, January 18, 2000 - 09:57 pm:
25 is not all that unlikely, I think it's just over 66.5 million to 1 chance. That is the
chance from the first spin that another 24 in a row are the same colour. Bear in
mind that the odds are divided by the number of spins. So if you spin 1000 times
then the odds of it happening in those are about 66.5 thousand to one.

(37/18 raised to the power of 25)
 
Sirius is the expert when it comes to Roulette.
(And detetecting crooked games)
He got Asian Gamble to admit a "FLAW" in thier software:

Hi,

I think you should close your Asian Gamble casino (www.theredline.com)
until you can get it programmed correctly. If you wanted to cheat you
should have been a bit more subtle. I played four numbers in roulette
250 times and never hit a number! Trust me when I say this means there
is something seriously wrong. Maybe you should sack your programmers.
You should return money to whoever has lost since you opened and close
your casino. I was slightly suspicious of the blackjack yesterday but
the roulette is definitely rigged. I wasn't satisfied with a million to
one chance or even a billion but I played until there was over a
trillion to one chance of it happening in a fair game. I expect to be
rewarded for finding this out for you.


It doesn't take a mathematician but the odds of what happened at the
roulette are the following: (34/38) to the power of 250
i.e.
1 in 1,191,708,106,582

Asian Gamble - Msg #2
Posted by Sirius 9/10/2001
I would love to know how a glitch happened to make the roulette always miss my numbers. I would find it hard to
believe in any glitch that did that. All the numbers were landed on I think. I chose different numbers at the start and
then I stayed on the same numbers for ages and after noticing a lot of 30's I moved to those numbers for ages and
the previous numbers I was on came up haha. By the way I couldn't get any games to start when I later tried to log
on again but that might just have been inflicted by the software after I complained or something. How can a glitch
avoid my numbers in roulette?

31,31,25,1,29,27,32,15,22,24,28,31,29,28,24,4,36,21,20,31,9,10,33,12,36,9,35,33,20,17,24,26,35,20,6,34,26,12,33,
30,1,33,8,14,00,15,35,25,00,26,11,27,26,23,3,3,24,28,11,23,12,31,33,3,29,30,21,36,3,20,3,28,5,20,7,27,11,8,18,26,
15,28,33,3,4,26,20,1,17,20,25,29,20,33,36,31,34,3,5,27,9,11,7,31,36,11,10,32,33,7,29,36,6,30,7,25,15,24,28,33,
00,1,10,12,5,14,11,34,2,24,0,34,24,11,32,15,2,33,36,31,32,34,31,35,2,3,27,31,24,12,9,36,7,9,18,26,24,18,26,34,

From now on I pick 33,34,35,36. Before I was mostly picking 13,16,19,22

29,23,21,00,13,2,30,16,11,19,18,22,6,7,21,15,12,14,18,3,8,31,16,9,16,14,28,2,1,4,30,20,1,2,29,20,23,0,29,5,
27,9,0,25,20,4,15,32,2,4,30,1,1,16,21,12,00,16,00,25,22,28,18,0,10,11,17,25,5,22,3,15,16,20,9,7,32,29,19,9,
20,16,11,23,30,24,31,11,20,1
-----------------

(Please bear in mind that Asian Gamble was an IGC member until the casino went out of business. Dave R)
 
casino-0n-net has swallowed twentythousand dollars of mine on thier slots...i have never had a pay-out....i almost did,but the "luck" would change....two hundred spins without a five dollar win? i requested records of my play for proof, asked them time and again for a check on thier random number generater, figuring it was on the fritz! asked for help in understanding horrid odds...and/or a examp;le of anyone who has won on thier slots...no effect...i am bankrupt...and crazy by it...for the longest time i thought it was just my luck....now i wonder....okiyan@msn.com....if anyone can help explain...please answer someone...it has left me in a wheelchair,60 and as broken as i could have been by any scam artist...my fault, i know for being dumb...but i trusted them because they were casinomeister trusty...thanks....
 
As for slots, there really is no need for most online casinos to rig the slots. They can set it to whatever the hell they want to as long as it conforms to Vegas or Atlantic City regulations, as low as 83%. The win % is so healthy they'll get every penny from you eventually. But having said that, I'm sure there are a couple operations out there that do have it set below 83%, since noone regulates anything.

With games like bj (.05% optimal), single-0 roulette (~2.7%), and video poker ( vig depends on the paytable, but even online casinos want to be competative) there is every reason to rig the games. Its called greed. They want to steal every last cent from you as quickly as they can, since they know you may be addicted. Ofcourse they also want you to experience an occasional win here and there, and this is programmed into the software in many cases. Its called "player profiling".

As for blaming Casinomeister or the OPA for advertising Casino-On-Net, I definately will NOT. I admit I have no proof, and therefore it is pointless. As for Microgaming, I have collected a lot of valuable evidence which may eventually be released, although the data is still being evaluated by some of the top minds at a major university. Its all in spreadsheet format, and is under lock and key. If the Microgaming Corporation is ever investigated by authorities in London, I may decide to go public. But at the moment, Microgaming has an good reputation amongst most gamblers, and I enjoy playing in thier casinos myself, to hustle for bonuses (although I stay far away from the blackjack!)
 
Also, many of the same software providers that are cheating thier players ARE ALSO CHEATING THIER LICENSEES. Look at what I just read at
www.startcasino.com (the same site that had the excellent tribute to the WTC.):

There are cases where some Internet Gambling Software
Providers have progammed the software to recognize bogus
players, preprogrammed to win. So, unbeknownst to the licensee,
a computer controlled player enters the casino with a credit card
and wins left and right. In addition to getting a higher percentage
of the take, the Internet Gambling Software Provider also GETS
the WINNINGS. Talking to others in the industry about the
company in question is helpful in avoiding this pitfall. [Endquote]

Dave
 
Played Dr. Ho casino. Looking at past 10 historical spins showed a good mix of red and black. Started to play black, lost over 100.00 because red came up 12 consecutive times. Something seems fishy here. I thought I would have a fairer chance of winning with a live spinner.On top of that, after I discontinued playing, black came up more consectuive times than red.

Experts say that at a live casino, consecutive colors go 7 times at most.

Corruption must exhist here too. Anyone with similiar experiences at Dr. HO?

Where online is a good place to play a fair game of roulette? NO casino ads please.
 
Dave -

Do you take everything that is printed as gospel? Startcasino gathers information in the same manner from the same people as I do - but that post above is hypothetical. Notice it doesn't name which ones are shady... LOL... I see him at every conference and we often work together and chow together... and you're right, that WTC tribute was damn good.

Cfojoe - your experts are crazy, if you'll excuse me LOL. I have watched (last week in fact) 15 red in a row, and many occasions where one color hit 7 times or more. And this is in two three-hour sessions. By the way, Dr. Ho is as honest as they come. They also operate real casinos.
 
Spearmaster,
You may know Marc, and chow down junk food together at many of these conferences, but in the
above quote from startcasino.com, NOWHERE does he say this is HYPOTHETICAL!

Re-read Marc's quote above.

He simply says "THERE ARE" cases in which this has happened.
 
Boys, boys, can we take this slugfest offline please? I could use some additional player input on Microgaming software, too. They used to be "all that and a bag o'chips" when I started playing about 6 months ago. Then the really weird stuff started happening with their blackjack. Right about the time the Wizard downgraded their BJ status in favor of Boss Media. Bottom line, cheating players or not, the informed gamer has a responsibility to him/herself to read and ask questions to make the best decision. So my question is not "who is losing where", but where are we winning???? On a side note, is it just me or does my initial visit to a casino as a new player invariably pay off when compared with subsequent sessions?
 
March 26, 2002 Press Releases

CASINO FORTUNE TERMINATES AGREEMENT WITH
MICROGAMING SOFTWARE

Casino Fortune a division of Sunny Casinos, which is
itself a division of Sunny Group of Companies,
announced today that it has discontinued using
Microgamings casino Software. This decision comes
after being unable to resolve concerns in relation to the
percentage associated with its Microgaming software.

This decision comes against the background of industry
concerns emanating from United States pressure. The
Sunny Group is concerned to maintain its clean image
and good industry reputation. Casino Fortune believes
that its players are best protected at this time by not
being offered Microgaming Software. Casino Fortune is
asking that a truly independent auditing company be
called in to verify the accuracy of payout percentages
quoted. There should also be proof that the random
number generator used by Microgaming is truly random
and not susceptible to manipulation by the software
provider. Sunny Casinos will always place its reputation
before profits.

Below is a more detailed account of the events that led
to the above decision:

An International auditing company is employed by
Microgaming and Casino Fortune to review the output of
the random number generator embedded in the
Microgaming software used by Casino Fortune. The
auditing company confirms that the generator
consistently produces random numbers and is a fair
basis for the outcome of games that have been played.
Presently, Casino Fortune is not convinced that this is
accurate.

The January 2002 audit report was released late
February. At that time Decembers report had also not
been sent. Casino Fortune repeatedly asked for the
figures, which are usually published to its customers.

On 8th February Casino Fortune was asked to sign a new
contract with Microgaming. The terms of this contract
stated, Microgaming shall not be liable to the Operator
for any indirect consequential or special damages or loss
of profits arising out of or in connection with this
Agreement. Casino Fortunes Directors voiced extreme
suspicion and wrote to Martin and Anthony Moshal
expressing this and other points of concern.

On February 13th Microgaming announced that January
figures would be late due to technical difficulties. A
serious letter was sent to both Microgaming and the
auditing company demanding an explanation as Casino
Fortune was concerned that if there were technical
difficulties in obtaining information then they could stem
from the random number generator.

On 20th February Casino Fortunes IT Director wrote
again "We are very concerned about our payout
percentages. We also have not received our audit
reports for the last 2 months. I was forced to review the
previous problem we had sometime ago regarding
payout percentages as shown in emails below. The IT
Director made reference to a November 2000 settlement
Microgaming made with several licensees after it was
suspected that they (Microgaming) had tampered with
the random numbers generator causing losses. The
Director copied letters from other operators who claimed
that the settlement represented only one fifth of what
was actually lost.

On February 22nd Microgaming, after many phone calls
from Casino Fortune, agreed that the matter would be
investigated and that a report would be sent to us from
the auditing company on the following Monday. This was
never done and up to this time Casino Fortune has not
received Decembers report. An urgent meeting of the
Sunny Group Board was held and Microgaming was given
3 weeks to provide the report.

On the weekend of March 1st, 2nd & 3rd Microgaming was
seen entering the proprietary Sunny Group credit card
server. Microgamings access was immediately cut off
and it was confirmed that no data was tampered with.
However, in the light of what occurred, Casino Fortune
became even more concerned.

On March 3rd Roger Raativer of Microgaming notified
Casino Fortune that the auditing company was
considering termination of the services they provide.
Casino Fortune attempted to contact Anthony or Martin
Moshal but received no answers to emails or phone
messages. On 11th March, Anthony Moshal sent his new
email address, which was no longer a Microgaming one.

On March 13th Microgaming asked Casino Fortune to sign
new agreements with a company in the Isle of Man. The
agreements stated the following terms "that at any time
after termination of this Agreement, the Covenanter
shall not disclose to any other person firm or company
particulars of any of Microgamings Confidential
Information.

On March 17th, credits for guest customer accounts were
tampered with. Upon investigation, it was proven that
this was not caused by any employee of Casino
Fortune. Microgaming was promptly contacted and they
denied any allegation that their staff had anything to do
with the interferences. Casino Fortune attempted to no
avail, to speak directly to the Microgaming principle,
Martin Moshal. Mr. Moshal did not respond to emails and
his cell number was no longer active.

On March 21st, Casino Fortune decided it would be in the
best interest of it customers to discontinue the
Microgaming Progressive Games until the auditors
reports and an explanation were received. Microgaming
was duly informed of this decision.

From the account provided above, on Tuesday, March
26th Casino Fortune has had no other choice but to take
drastic measures in terminating the use of
Microgamings software. Casino Fortune regrets having
to sever its ties with Microgaming, however as a
subsidiary of the Sunny Group of Companies, our
primary concern is to our customers.

During this worrisome time, Casino Fortune investigated
many other casino software providers. While most had
excellent games, one of the companies, which stood out
above the rest in terms of excellent customer benefits
and state of the art software is Playtech. Casino
Fortune is therefore pleased to announce that it has
selected Playtech as its new software provider.
 
I have always been under the impression, all along, that Martin and Anthony Moshal are the owners of the Microgaming Corporation.
(Including Proc Cyber and Forward Slash)

Anyone care to take a trip back in time. Go to the "Way Back Machine" at
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
and view Microgaming's website back in 1995. The only email address on the whole website is that of, you guessed it, Martin Moshal.
 
Man, what a mess; this should prove to be interesting as it all unfolds. I'm looking forward to MG's reply

~b
 
Bryan, et al
These Microgaming complaints have been pretty pervasive of late. I'm not surprised, but not really relieved, either, as I guess at some point it's easier to blame it on bad luck or bad play. But really! Some of the blackjack hands these "dealers" have displayed beating my
easy 20 with their multi-card 21's, or, worse yet, consistently dealing my 'double down' bet, a deuce, can only have been pulled from one particular part of their collective anatomy. What really irritates me is the fact that I kept playing (and losing!) at the same casinos! And I don't feel we can hold the casinos blameless, as these patterns emerge. It becomes readily apparent which sites will let you win several small hands in a row and then e-rape you right then and there; there are others that I've learned, never take a hit on anything higher than 11. You WILL BUST. EVERY TIME. And awhile back one of this forum's alarmists showed borderline paranoia because he only began losing when he raised his wager. I experienced that, too. So for all of us who are NOT independently wealthy, the time has come for experts (like you, like Michael, etc,) to revisit the software that is available to us. I'm not comfortable at all with Odds On. It smacks of Micro Gaming attitude. Casino Fortune touts Playtech but I just visted their site and their still running MG. SO. Cryptologic? I had some good luck just recently at OnLuck and sisters. What are they running? Give us your 2 cents and I promise to give you credit for my resulting vast winnings.
(Lori)
 
Okay,

Perhaps it's time to revisit the software. There seems to be a bit of a tiff between MG and the Sunny group which is coming to light with the latest press releases.

I normally rely on the Gamemaster's and Wizard of Odds findings since their expertise is much more qualified than mine. Perhaps they can have a re-go at the software.

~b
 
PRESS RELEASE

27/March/2002


"Microgaming regrets to announce that the Software Licence Agreement with the Sunny Group of companies (which operates Casino Fortune, Mapau and Miami Beach Casino) has been terminated.

Sunny Group has not been settling its outstanding licensing fees for some time, and its current licensing fees were severely in arrears. Microgaming was left with no alternative but to terminate the Software Licence Agreement with the Sunny Group. Notice of the termination was given and confirmed by Microgamings lawyers.

Microgaming and the Sunny Group have had a long relationship. The termination was not taken lightly and was done with a heavy heart.

Microgaming is doing everything possible to assist the Sunny Group of casinos to finalise its data so that it can pay out its players.

Microgaming has noted a press announcement from Sunny Group, stating that the licence was terminated by the Sunny Group, and citing a variety of spurious grounds for this. The allegations made in support of these grounds in the release, are quite simply false, and are known to the Sunny Group to be false. Microgaming regrets that the Sunny Group has sought to hide its financial embarrassment in this manner".
 
Wow! I really hadn't even considered the possibility since Sunny has such a good track record of paying the players!

I don't think MG would publish this if there wasn't some solid truth in it!

Would they???
 
Me thinks there is more to it than meets the eye.

Here we have two solid companies that are rolling up their sleeves and dipping their hands in some mud to be slung.

Sunny has an excellent track record. Severely in arrears? I'm sure Sunny will have a comment on that.

~b
 
Now that this is out my last payout from Casino Mapau makes a little more sense. I had requested a payout of more than $5000 by PayPal, but someone from Sunny Group telephoned me that there were some problems that would delay a PayPal payment and asked to make a payment by wire instead. They promised to take care of the charges but my payment was $15 short and it was not my bank that took the fee. Other than that Sunny Group has always been a prompt payer and I have done quite well at Microgaming blackjack over the long term.

This is all very interesting, but it in no way proves that MG software cheats players. If I were changing software for a casino I owned, it might be a great marketing ploy to insinuate that my competitors were using defective software.
 
Can't believe Sunny Group is questioning PwC's integrity. Also strange that everyone in the industry, including players knows Micki and the ethical way she ran Sunny's Online Division. So I would question why Micki left Sunny in January. The word on the street is she is with another MGS operator. Why would she go with another MGS operator, if they were so crooked ?
 
Were not casting any rods at anyone certainly not PWC, we do whats best for our customers. Period.

If it means discontinuing our agreement with MGS to protect out players interest then so be it.

Weve been in this business too long and worked too hard to see it all go down the drain. We have confidence that our experience and dedication to our players in this industry will prevail.
 
Were not casting any rods at anyone certainly not PWC, we do whats best for our customers. Period.

At the risk of sounding critical, The release that I read casted some very sharp rods.

Certainly wasn't a "It's been a good ride, no hard feelings, wish you the best", kind of departure.

Serious accusations were clearly made against MG and well, you don't believe the PWC reports are completely accurate.
Yes?/No?
Please explain.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Meister Ratings

Back
Top